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VirusX
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Posted - 2003.12.02 23:45:00 -
[1]
I have been playing Eve-Online since the last two weeks of Beta 7.
This evening a question appeared in my mind and I cannot resist to ask it to you, Pann.
Since Eve-Online has opened its server in London, every single player aimed to fly a bigger ship. We started with Frigades, then we passed to Cruiser and finally we are flying our huge, imposing and extremely fire-powerful Battleships.
Now if the trend will continue in this way, in my opinion, nobody (except for noobs) will fly Frigades or Cruisers anymore. Everybody will fly on a Battleship or a Titan (when they will be avaible) or a new ship that CCP developers will have decided to draw and introduce to us.
But, you will agree to me, a fleet isn't made up only by huge and slow ships (like Battleships), don't you? A fleet - even in my opinion - should be made up by about a 15% of Battleships, a 35% of Cruisers and 50% Frigades (that could be modified when new ships will be avaiable, or if you don't agree to me).
So is CCP planning a way to realize it? Or will our run to the biggest ship go on infinitely?
But above all, do you agree to me that this one COULD BE a great problem for Eve-Online life???
In the end of my post, this problem is not new for developers of MMORPG. I remember the same problem playing Ultima Online. In the Italian non-official servers - yes, I'm Italian - in which I played it, all people were aiming to ride a Zoostrick or a Mustang horse that were the best animals both in fight and for go through long distance.
Note: I'm not asking you to tell me the CCP developers' idea to solve this problem, but only if CCP developers are doing something or are conscious of this one.
I trust you (CCP developers) and I'm only asking myself if you are doing something for this, too.
Thanks in advance, best regards
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Tyrion Nydaerin
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Posted - 2003.12.02 23:52:00 -
[2]
see this thread, smaller ships will finally have some advantages soon 
-=Fountain Alliance High Council Member=- |
VirusX
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Posted - 2003.12.03 08:21:00 -
[3]
Will it be enough to see again people flying Frigades and Cruisers, instead of BattleShips???
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2003.12.03 09:09:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
Will it be enough to see again people flying Frigades and Cruisers, instead of BattleShips???
With 30 miljoin implants in your head, would you rather sit in a ship with 20000 hp or one with 1000hp?
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http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Rickenbacker
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Posted - 2003.12.03 09:42:00 -
[5]
I don't doubt that people looking to do the most damage with a single ship will still fly a BS, but this opens some interesting possibilities for small groups of frigates and cruisers to gang up on bigger ships and kick their ass. About time :-).
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Braccas
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Posted - 2003.12.03 09:46:00 -
[6]
Quote:
Quote:
Will it be enough to see again people flying Frigades and Cruisers, instead of BattleShips???
With 30 miljoin implants in your head, would you rather sit in a ship with 20000 hp or one with 1000hp?
If u¦re not going to take any risks at all...
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Temerlyn
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Posted - 2003.12.03 09:52:00 -
[7]
This has probaly been mentioned as some point but ill mention it again. The class of ships should be changed to apply different roles in a combat fleet. Not be bigger and Badder ships than the previous class.
This following idea imo is quite good but it seems to late to implement now. But on a simple level change frigates to be more of a support ship in a fleet by allowing them to have more medium slots than even the cruisers or BS's, more cpu and more cap to utilise the EW gear they will hold.
Basically re make the frigates to be the EW ships of each race, cruisers take a large combat roll ship vs ship and battle ships are used as primarily siege weapons against floating deployables.
Make large guns go back to crap tracking ranges cause you dont need to track to much when trying to destroy stationary objects.
If these things were implemented from the start we would see a different situation than what we have.
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Steini OFSI
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Posted - 2003.12.03 10:00:00 -
[8]
People will be forced to fly smaller ships. Any pirate group wishing to jam a person at the gate, must include a frigate, as simple as that. So finally we could see fighting groups organized like 3 frigates 2 crusiers 1 destroyer (a new incoming ship class, TomB was working on it last night) and finally battleships to pull the tug and fire anything they can after they have aquired a lock on something, this also makes interesting the use of cloaks and other things, man if the new patch runs smooth this game will have advanced so much, wish I could test more, but I unfortunatly have to study.
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2003.12.03 10:01:00 -
[9]
IMHO, the battleships are going to get a nerf that shouldnt happen. Their now nerfed in their sensor strength and targetting systems, while you rather should make it:
Frigates boost should be the issue, bring out modules that give an advantage: Faster speed than a bs with mwd on and less cap, modules that reinforce the shield or even double it... Skills that would make the frigate pilot better, more specialised etc.
Now the skills are pretty common, if you want to shoot right, you train that and that skill. No mather your ship, your skills are boosted.
Maybe there should be more specialisation for these smaller ships, and the bonus should be more than the bonus on larger ships.
Nerfing battleships will only make ccp losing customers.
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http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.12.03 10:18:00 -
[10]
"With 30 miljoin implants in your head, would you rather sit in a ship with 20000 hp or one with 1000hp?"
... Past certain point the implants stop to have much of meaning. 'Tis happens faster if you opt for specialized character -- after you get the skills you need up to their optimal point, what difference does it make how long it'll take to train the stuff your character doesn't really need?
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.12.03 10:30:00 -
[11]
I think one of the main issues surrounding ship imbalances atm in Eve is gun tracking speeds. IMO, there should be no way that a large BS gun should be able to track fast enough to hit an orbitting frigate travelling at 1000 m/s. BS guns should track slowly and pack a big punch, ideal for hitting slow moving cruisers and other BS. Coversely, smaller guns track fast and pack less punch.
This would go a long way to balancing PvP in eve as BS pilots would be forced to either use faster tracking guns to hit frigates, or take a small ship escort with them. It would also allow frigates to orbit and attack BS without getting nuked in 2.3 seconds.
BS don't need to be nerfed, and frigates don't then need to be boosted. All you do is change the tracking speeds of the guns used by these ships.
Or am I just talking crap?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.12.03 10:38:00 -
[12]
"IMO, there should be no way that a large BS gun should be able to track fast enough to hit an orbitting frigate travelling at 1000 m/s."
... The large guns can't hit the orbitting frigate already; what they can do, is to hit the frigate when it's still some 20+ k away and still closing in... because they can lock on the small ship in the instant, if they so please.
Still, that's just half of the problem anyway. Am guessing instead of escorts people will rather fit a webber or cap neutralizer on their ship. (or the smartbomb. or missile launcher. or bunch of drones... you get the picture --;;
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.12.03 10:46:00 -
[13]
Quote:
... The large guns can't hit the orbitting frigate already;
Thats what i thought until I sampled Takers 1400 projectiles at 1km. Ouch.
Quote:
Still, that's just half of the problem anyway. Am guessing instead of escorts people will rather fit a webber or cap neutralizer on their ship. (or the smartbomb. or missile launcher. or bunch of drones... you get the picture --;;
Well, only a suicidal idiot would attack a BS in a single frigate *cough* () I was actually thinking that small wings of frigates attacking a BS and actually having a fair chance at doing some damage, instead of being fried by large tachs in 3 seconds.
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Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2003.12.03 10:50:00 -
[14]
The tracking needs to be majorly killed.
those large guns should have trouble hitting anything other than a slow moving battleship.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.12.03 10:55:00 -
[15]
"Thats what i thought until I sampled Takers 1400 projectiles at 1km. Ouch."
Oi, i have tried the tachyons and hybrids but no projectiles. Guess will have to see if 'twas just lucky shot or if they are always like that o.o
"Well, only a suicidal idiot would attack a BS in a single frigate *cough* ()"
You are right, there should be at least two idiots trying that. *coughs, too* ;s
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.12.03 10:57:00 -
[16]
j0 - those big projectiles were consistently hitting me for obscene damage. Good job I was in a rupture at the time and not a kestrel...
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.12.03 11:01:00 -
[17]
... Uhmm, but isn't Rupture a cruiser, i.e. has much bigger signature radius and moves slower? Admittedly, i always have trouble telling on of those random garbage compositions from another. o.o
*runs from Minmatar wrath* :o
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.12.03 11:04:00 -
[18]
Yes, but I think the result would have been the same if I was in a kestrel, for example. Also, in PvP situations I've attacked and orbitted BS with big tachs and been hit for massive dam at ranges and speeds that shouldn't be happening. So, yeah, tracking speeds are not the solution to the whole problem, but they do need to be addressed.
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Macumba
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Posted - 2003.12.03 11:26:00 -
[19]
The tracking doesn't need adjusting. If you did then battleships wouldn't be able to hit battleships let alone frigates. What needs to be added is a 'to hit' modifier.
You attack a battleship with a small weapon then you can't miss. You attack a frigate with a large weapon then you're ****ing in the wind.
Most pen & paper strategy games have something similar. Its not rocket science. Small fast moving things are hard to hit. Big slow things aren't.
"PVP = griefing" Papa Smurf |
Elcia
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Posted - 2003.12.03 11:44:00 -
[20]
Destroyer? are they smaller than cruisers? cus in real life they are.
I fly frigates lol though my current character is almost a week old I'm still in my Velator I liek the challenge and I go into 0.3 systems quite often :-). I don't think bigger is better cus most of the time its not (except in games).
I would think 10% battleship 40% cruiser and 50% frigate/industrials is more realistic because EVE is not just a military world there are alot of none military too so there shuld be alot more little ships around.
I don't think adding characteristic to each class is enought hough because a person with a battleship will potentially have the battleship in 100 years time. Should introduce degradation intothe game maybe 1% HP every 100 hour or something. There would need for maintainance cost (the main limiting factor in lack of large hardware in the military).
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