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Richter Zorn
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Posted - 2003.12.03 08:43:00 -
[1]
Hello fellow players.
Hopefully this can be a uniting thread that developers might take some inspiration from. Now what do you think will make this game expand instead of losing the current playerbase in a small trickle? I didn't want to post this in the Idea-Lab since that is more oriented towards technical ideas for this and that module.
I have a few suggestions, none of them easy to implement.
* There HAS to be a major increase of the main storyline. This is the overall all largest opinion if you read peoples comments on news. Many people want a war - even though that sounds like a big thing It might make the story more interesting. It should also impact game mechanics. A Caldari/Gallente war should remove any sechits in warzones.
* Marketing, this is the hardest - since the game is not "new" I think word of mouth may have been a bit silenced. Perhaps there is no money left to do any ad campaigns. But maybe if PR worked on getting som updated reviews on the various gamemags and gamesites heads would turn.
* Players have no tools. One argument against CCP getting more involved in the storyline has been for players to do more role-playing themselves. Some corps have done this very well but to be frank we players don't have any tools to use besides the local chat in order to set up events. That is somewhat limiting.
That was all for now. This is intended as a base of discussion or constructive critism. Treat it as such.
Thanks for an otherwise great game
Kris
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Zhakk
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Posted - 2003.12.03 09:14:00 -
[2]
Great topic:
In my mind the greatest issue that EVE faces is it's lack of player base. When I started in August I could count on at least 5500 or more on line during european prime time. Now that number is way down.
Part of the problem is the death of EVE's first publishing house Simon & Schouster. This has ment no new boxes of EVE in the American Market. The only EVE CD"S available in America are those remaining from the period before S & S went out of business. This means only a small handful of EVE CD'c available in American retail stores. As a result I would guess that the number of Americans joining the game is far exceeded by the number of Americans leaving.
The low number of retail CD's in America is an issue that must be addressed. In order for EVE's dynamic economic model to work properly we will need at least 10,000 - 15,000 regular players. We will never achieve this number without American support for the game. I hope for the survival of EVE that they are working on dealing with this key issue.
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Richter Zorn
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Posted - 2003.12.03 09:24:00 -
[3]
This is a part of the bigger problem that I haven't heard of before and I agree that it is a big one. Even though the game is downloadable now I think the box market is far more important. There is a distinct feeling of buying the box - its the pleasure of getting a packaged product. Im not sure of how the dynamics of business works but I imagine its fairly hard to get a new publisher 6+ months down the road. This also opens up for a "gift market" especially now in Christmas times.
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Carp Riddell
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Posted - 2003.12.03 09:35:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
* Players have no tools. One argument against CCP getting more involved in the storyline has been for players to do more role-playing themselves. Some corps have done this very well but to be frank we players don't have any tools to use besides the local chat in order to set up events. That is somewhat limiting.
I a nutshell.
- Carp Riddell
- CEO, Innsmouth Shipping
- Proud Member of Curse Alliance
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Ariell Lucinwind
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Posted - 2003.12.03 09:49:00 -
[5]
Quote:
* Players have no tools. One argument against CCP getting more involved in the storyline has been for players to do more role-playing themselves. Some corps have done this very well but to be frank we players don't have any tools to use besides the local chat in order to set up events. That is somewhat limiting.
Good points but keep in mind that we not only need tools, we need a story for the whole world to par take in not just one for USA. Ticks me off that I miss events some times because it must be catered for the majority (No offence but you should try it in my place)
Maybe have GMs all over the world or some kind of people elected for role play events to play out a part at a particular time (for their time zone) thatway, some thing some where will happen and it will rock the universe.
This is just to get a equal share of the stary and role play to everyone. If its not done, you, the masses that whine for more players to join, should research why players dislike events during their offpeak time.
Classic example is Jumpgate the first US online Game for USA online.
Just my opinion, flame on if must.
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Came back cause I love you guys :P |
Intensity Green
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Posted - 2003.12.03 09:52:00 -
[6]
The content thingy is bull imho. The tools are there and more are coming for us to weave our very own stories. And some people do every day.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.12.03 09:57:00 -
[7]
We need more people.
More people = more money = more content = more people = more volunteers = better CS = more GM's = even more people
We need more people, dammit!
Ohh, and less highway systems, tnx.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.12.03 10:16:00 -
[8]
Highways suck. And we need the faction standings to work...
--------------------------------------------
Dead
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2003.12.03 10:48:00 -
[9]
We need to take more intiatives ourselves.
And we need a reason to compete.
Powergaming is not competing. Also powergamers are leaving because they reached their goal of getting in BS's, having ³ber skills and being able to kill anything ingame.
Producers are leaving cause producing currently serves no goal since there's no specialisation or customisation.
In short, player activity is limited, and serves no purpose besides gathering isk, and providing those who havent got one witrh a BS and some nice mods.
So two things will save Eve:
- player owned (destructable or otherwise subject to loss for the owner) structures. With also the possibility to own space (including sec rating changes etc.)
- Player involvement (selfmade content).
Of course, tech 2 will make us last a few more months, but the main thing must be player owned structures imho.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Macumba
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Posted - 2003.12.03 10:54:00 -
[10]
* Remove highways.
* Remove CONCORD.
* Make factions mean something other than how close you are to a tech 2 BP.
* Fix PvP (an option other than zerg, wild goose chase or run away would be nice).
* Bigger range of ships/visible difference between techs/'looted' weapons. Theres very little to see in EVE, after a couple of weeks you've seen it all. Visual differences might be trivial, but they do hold your interest, just changing a few stats is a cop out (EVE really needs more eye candy, it's getting close to becoming Championship Manager 03/04 in space).
EVE needs it's own version of a flaming sword, when everybody is flying around in an identical looking ship with an identical looking loadout and the novelty of flying a battleship has worn off then the game reveals it's true colours. When you can't make a tangible impact on the universe (ie. through territory control or player made stations etc.) then trinkets are the next best thing. EVE has neither.
* More events. Less bull****/rumours.
* They've got this thing called 'customer support' now too. I know it's quite a shocking concept, but when things go wrong that are out of the players' control they 'help' them. Crazy I know. Not everybody who files a petition is a liar or somebody who wants something for free.
* A purpose to manufacturing. Why bother? Theres no money in it. NPC loot is cheaper and better. The pecking order should go something like this...
Rare (and I mean rare) Loot.
Manufactured.
Common loot.
Give people a reason to buy manufactured goods. Look at DAOC if you want an idea of how to do it.
"PVP = griefing" Papa Smurf |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.12.03 10:58:00 -
[11]
Agreed with Macumba.
Neccesary changes ;)
(apart fro the flaming sword thing, don't want a tristan having a glowing 'drill' =\)
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Macumba
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Posted - 2003.12.03 11:17:00 -
[12]
I don't mean literally. A bit of variety would be nice though.
Theres no 'wow' factor with any of the ships, once you've seen one you've seen 'em all. Re-skinning an Apoc is a start, but a few more models would be nice.
You could argue that avatars add variety, but when all they are is a static 2D picture that you're maybe going to look at once (twice if its a particularly good one) then they're pretty unnecessary.
It's the little things that make a difference.
"PVP = griefing" Papa Smurf |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.12.03 11:21:00 -
[13]
I've heard, in IRC, that jovian ships and the Enigma have weird 'ripple' like effects and shield graphics and the like.
I know it's possible with the engine to show things like that.
Also, there's 4 different skins for each ship available, appearantly (going fom what TomB said in the eve-i interview).
I would like to see purely cosmetic changes :)
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Visionary
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Posted - 2003.12.03 11:25:00 -
[14]
- I DO NOT NEED more STORYLINE
- I DO NOT NEED TOOLs
- I DO NOT NEED a fuggn new HomePage
This game NEEDs to become that, what is promised in E3 trailer or just at the CD-Package...
u need some days to explore eve... than a month to get all u can get... than tons of coffee to not fall asleep durin playing EVE.
In my opinion CCP biggest fault is to focus on secondary things like graphics. e.g. the billboard ?!? Who needs them??? total useless shi7... ok first time u see u will laugh, but 2nd u wont take a notic... hang the coder high who waste his time on this... or take the "look at" feature... yay nice... but first i wanna stuff to look at like stations, sentry guns etc.
The boring storyline to intuduce tec II ...muaahahahaha... and at the time 20% of active player went to that event just to take one little look at tec II ships the systems crashed. And all CCP do is to get us a boring storyline of their incompetence to handle their own events!
In my opinion the main target in the game to get rich, powerfull and own a Station with a group of people! That is still not possible... so ccp missed to bring main goals in game.
THAT's why the big groups left the game and THAT's why economics run to deadline!
WAKE UP CCP! It's CCP who killed the game! Stop talking lovely to ccp and kiss them.... tell them the truth! WE R BORED LIKE HELL in the game cause we r at the END of the Game!
Like any other Game if i walked through all levels... i am rdy with it!
I DO NOT want to hear rumors and storyline about cloakin, sentry guns, tec II, mobile refs, stations, uberFrigs .... i want a possibility to get the stuff !!!!! And not only in taking part in frickin events...
The gamne have the power to get his own storyline and events... Allies and player based factins r buld now for month... but NOTHING that seperates the one from the other and make it REAL worth to fight an ally!
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"just my 2 isk" |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.12.03 11:29:00 -
[15]
"I would like to see purely cosmetic changes :)"
... Easiest and most noticeable way to do it at the moment would be giving people different colours of engine trails ;s
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Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2003.12.03 11:29:00 -
[16]
Player owned property is definately the key, imo.
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Shock
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Posted - 2003.12.03 11:36:00 -
[17]
Just read all the potw and articles again. Just view all the trailers again.
Then you know what this game needs. It has no feel to the world. The events are superficial, and very limited. Why can only a few players act in the events?
Also the amount of space is too large. Force the alliances to come back to empire space, make raids in 0.5-0.8 possible and allow corps to control their own systems (and not three entire regions). Make more entrances into 0.0 space, make pirates move around more.
The game needs more action, more dynamics.
---
soonÖ |
Ariell Lucinwind
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Posted - 2003.12.03 11:42:00 -
[18]
Quote:
We need more people.
Not going to speed up in a hurry if they keep turning the servers off on some countries peak times.
Kinda like loaning a car out to some guy for the weekend and then saying that they can only drive it for 2 hours that day. Kinda is just like my feelings right now
get rid of the Downtime or rotate it with other countries so we get a good feel for some things or other countries get some satisfatcion and boost things a bit, along with advertising of course.
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Came back cause I love you guys :P |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.12.03 11:48:00 -
[19]
The downtime is placed perfectly. Most of CCP's userbase is concentrated in America and Europe. As such, it's a wonderful time to have it at the time now.
It's still a bother for the aussie, I don't deny that. It will improve, of course.
(Don't forget CCP is Icelandic and this is for them theperfect time. Don't make the poor devs get up in the middle of the night )
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Richter Zorn
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Posted - 2003.12.03 15:00:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Richter Zorn on 03/12/2003 15:02:08
So there seem to be at least three categories of people here:
1. The ones that want content and want it all fast and preferrably yesterday.
2. Those who want content to trickle in in a steady but not too rushed tempo.
3. Those who think the content is really up to us players.
I have some thoughts about the previous posts. Firstly I agree that the GM's need to arrange more events and preferably more spread out - in universe as well as in real world time.
However I don't think this should be to emphasized. The problem with the GM events we have seen are that they are very short and have prettly low impact on the main storyline. Perhaps not the Emperor selection which in my mind seemed well planned and might give some long term impact on the story if done right.
Secondly ....
quote:
-------------------------------------
The content thingy is bull imho. The tools are there and more are coming for us to weave our very own stories. And some people do every day.
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Well, this is not a really tolerant opinion. I know we have the basic tools for interaction but in my humble opinion we don't have enough ... yet. What about corp owned space, our own sec laws etc. etc. I know this has been said to come, but that was a long time ago - where is it?
Some of us just don't have the time to set up elaborate plots for others to participate in - or perhaps some of us lacks the imagination to come up with good internal stories.
Whatever the cause being the fact still remains that we pay for this service. It's like I go to the theater to be entertained, I don't pay the ticket to entertain others.
Third
The issue about the number of players need to increase is a though one. Right now I think it boils down to word of mouth. This will not happend until the majority of the player base is satisfied with the game.
I don't recommend games to friends if I don't think its super cool and I really enjoy it. Right now I'm too aware that people are leaving the game to recommend EVE in it's current state.
Fourth, about the opinion that gamers have come to the games end is unfortunate and true. I too feel slight effects of this.
I have a Scorpion and feel that I have no higher goals part of going around and shooting up other people or hunting pirates.
There should always be a goal set in the future that you know you almost can't reach. This keeps people interested in my opinion. We always wan't what we don't/can't have. In the nature of this game it becomes materialistic values like ships and stations.
Fifth, I also agree on the levels of customization. I would like to see different styles of ships. I am aware that this has to some degree have to do with net load and loading specific loadouts take time and might cause lag.
But still, ships have different kind of guns which is rendered unique in the game. Why not have the ability to paint ships like we choose colors/patterns for our corps.
That should just be a matter of sending a short line of code when you encounter a ship (I don't know Im not a programmer) since all colors are stored locally on your drive. I still can't get over the fact that my Scorpions red markings were worn even though it came straight from the factory ;)
Sixth, market manufacturing requires some serious makeover since one play correctly stated - it serves no real purpose now since all loot is essentially better.
Seventh, Im not sure I see what the problem of downtime is. I mean I don't play all day so in what way is one hour downtime a problem. Enlighten me ... I do agree its a bit unfair that market can't get cleaned out for thos who live down under but I belive this is changing soon when the new "constant re-supply" of the market is comming, don't hold your breath though.
Ok, that got pretty long. I wan't to make it clear that Im not all about *****ing. I think the game has a great potential but some things definately need to change. I know people always has different opinions on what needs to change but MOST people agree on that we need "more" - the definition of "more" is left open.
I don't work at CCP so I can't speculate on the manpower they have but I might feel that more focus should be spent on the game now than on other external issues. If my cars engine isn't working properly I send it to the mechanics - I don't get a new paintjob. Silly analogy but you get my point I hope.
I like CCP and I like EVE but I am also a paying customer, I am like a stockholder - my opinions count. I would like to hear more from CCP but right now they aren't exactly sharing on what their organization is going through. That leaves only us and our opinions to CCP to do wan't they want with.
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Reptar
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Posted - 2003.12.03 15:04:00 -
[21]
i agree, and far to lazy to post a big ass thread 
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Khar'du
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Posted - 2003.12.03 16:27:00 -
[22]
I will save Eve-online.
I'm gonna free myself some slaves and get them all three accounts. Half of them will be put to work at CCP for a decent wage, as client service reps. The other half is going to fly suicide kestrels against 1.0 BS miners.
If that doent solve Eve's problems I'll quit, immediatley solving the problems cause there are no problems that aren't mine...
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Richter Zorn
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Posted - 2003.12.03 16:41:00 -
[23]
I'll guess we won't be seing you around K
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Herophant
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Posted - 2003.12.03 16:44:00 -
[24]
What eve needs!
-Reasons to fight:
Player owned stations!!!! They should ofcourse offer things that empire sys stations dont, to make them more atractive. I realy like the idea of player owned station offering services to players who dont have ownership in the station.(For a price ofcourse)
-Forced fighting without lagging jump inn;
There is NO way u can catch a player when u are cammping a gate, running is to easy. I hope ccp will change this in the next patch.
Player owned STATIONS will be great for this. With an increase in the time your ship stays before leaving space when u logg of leaving combat will be much harder. U cant dock or logg of only way of escape is to leave the system hehe.(This will only affect the pvp comunity who are based in 0.0 space)
Ideas to get this this to work in 0.1-0.5?
-Getn people in to 0.0!
There should be a reason to go to 0.0. Minning in 0.5+ is safe and profitable. Let the mega rain in 0.0.
-New players
Eve needs more players, if not its gonna die. To make the game more fun for them they have to be alowed to fight(Without being killed in 2 sec) Thats why the new changes to targeting has to be implented. I read one post were one pvp player basicaly said that everybody should play 2-3 months and get in a bs before fighting. Thats not the way to make new players stay in the game.
final thougts:
This game is losing players. There are a "group" of old players who treatens to leave the game everytime changes who will help newer players are being discused. People will get tirded of this game and leave. Becouse of that we need new players. If that group gets their way(no concord and invincible bs) they would go on killing sprees througt the galaxy killing everyone who hasnt played the game long enogh to get a bs. Killing all growt of the game. And as the oltimers slowly grow tired of the game, there will be no more eve online
Let the flamming begin.
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Lord Guerdo
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Posted - 2003.12.03 16:49:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Great topic:
In my mind the greatest issue that EVE faces is it's lack of player base. When I started in August I could count on at least 5500 or more on line during european prime time. Now that number is way down.
Part of the problem is the death of EVE's first publishing house Simon & Schouster. This has ment no new boxes of EVE in the American Market. The only EVE CD"S available in America are those remaining from the period before S & S went out of business. This means only a small handful of EVE CD'c available in American retail stores. As a result I would guess that the number of Americans joining the game is far exceeded by the number of Americans leaving.
The low number of retail CD's in America is an issue that must be addressed. In order for EVE's dynamic economic model to work properly we will need at least 10,000 - 15,000 regular players. We will never achieve this number without American support for the game. I hope for the survival of EVE that they are working on dealing with this key issue.
I take it your an american yeah???
funnily enough its more than possible for this game to survive without the american market albeit it would be a smaller community.
imo they have a few bugs in the mechanics they really need to fix first before turning their hand to marketing. HUGE PR is needed to pick this game back up again and start the server nodes buzzing with connections.
More events need to happen in game to stimulate the word of mouth again, aswell as an advertisement campaign to get the EVE picture and name in the public eye.
Lord Guerdo
Biomass Cartel
I mean c'mon, just think about it. What would make more sense then the 3 most hated alliances teaming up to lay waste to the people they all hate anyways? CA is already allied with PA, and TPS lies between the two alliances. Natural allies to be sure. But it's not just that, all but PA (and even some of them) have adopted a "stfu and die, or come and fight us, we don't give a **** what you think or do" philosophy, as well as a PvP Kill everyone not friend kind of mentality. These are the people in eve that kill or convert, the ones dedicated to the death of others, because history, circumstance, and the rest of eve have driven then to do so (except TPS, who are just cool ass pirates ). |
WhiteDwarf
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Posted - 2003.12.03 16:49:00 -
[26]
"There is NO way u can catch a player when u are cammping a gate, running is to easy. I hope ccp will change this in the next patch"
Hey I got an idea, how bout you don't f'ing camp!
Hey, problem solved!
"Trust No One" |
Herophant
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Posted - 2003.12.03 16:59:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Quote:
Great topic:
In my mind the greatest issue that EVE faces is it's lack of player base. When I started in August I could count on at least 5500 or more on line during european prime time. Now that number is way down.
Part of the problem is the death of EVE's first publishing house Simon & Schouster. This has ment no new boxes of EVE in the American Market. The only EVE CD"S available in America are those remaining from the period before S & S went out of business. This means only a small handful of EVE CD'c available in American retail stores. As a result I would guess that the number of Americans joining the game is far exceeded by the number of Americans leaving.
The low number of retail CD's in America is an issue that must be addressed. In order for EVE's dynamic economic model to work properly we will need at least 10,000 - 15,000 regular players. We will never achieve this number without American support for the game. I hope for the survival of EVE that they are working on dealing with this key issue.
I take it your an american yeah???
funnily enough its more than possible for this game to survive without the american market albeit it would be a smaller community.
imo they have a few bugs in the mechanics they really need to fix first before turning their hand to marketing. HUGE PR is needed to pick this game back up again and start the server nodes buzzing with connections.
More events need to happen in game to stimulate the word of mouth again, aswell as an advertisement campaign to get the EVE picture and name in the public eye.
Lord Guerdo
Biomass Cartel
One thing is getn new players the other thing is keeping them....
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zoop
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Posted - 2003.12.03 17:02:00 -
[28]
i think mobile refineries etc will help, as long as they are expensive.
something solid to attack/defend will improve things a great deal imo
----------------------------
*My God, it's full of gimps*
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Richter Zorn
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Posted - 2003.12.03 17:05:00 -
[29]
I wonder how many players there are in total getting a bill every month. A somewhat safe assumption is that the playerbase is something around peak users x 3 for the different timezones. What would that leave us - around 6000 players? I know these figures are somewhat playful but anyway that amounts to $60.000 per month. I have no idea how far this takes CCP every month. My guess there are huge loans for 2-3 years of development. Substract wages for all the employes, again I have no idea how many they are. Substract money for the insane internet hookup and costs for their hub equipment.
Safe bet is that that leaves very little money for marketing. CCP needs a publishing house but as I stated above that is probably not going to happend.
My guess is that no game got a new publisher once it was released to the market. Therefore I only see new players arriving by word of mouth - again, this will only happend by directly improving the game. Not spend time and effort on making new websites. Not that I don't like it - I just think it might be poor resource managment.
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Newg Runecasting
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Posted - 2003.12.03 17:11:00 -
[30]
We need to get rid of "Empire Controlled Secure Space" and have "Faction Controlled Secure Space" (We would still need the Newbie Systems patrolled by High Powered guardsà)
Make Faction Useful, and something to be worried about!
Make it Unsafe for Minmatar to travel in Amarr Space and vise versa. (unless the Minmatar gains high faction with the Amarr)
It'd make PVP much more Interesting too! You are a Pirate hunting in Caldari Space, A Thorax pops up and you quick check... Yep Gallente Scum! Open Fire. Opps... Didn't check the Faction that Gallente had with the Caldari (who had high faction)... And you just lost lots of Caldari Faction now the Caldari Navy is out after you. and you need to a) raise your Caldari Faction again or b) leave space. Basically every action you take leaves an effect on your char.
When I bought the game, I thought all the different Factions (Caldari, Minmatar, Amarr, and Gallente) were at odds with each other, and that I wouldn't be able to travel safely in a different factions "controlled" space. 0.0 space should be one of the few places that
I thought it would be like the Real Life Israeli/Palestine conflict. Border zone Guards, terror attacks, peace missions, retaliations, etcà
And that could happen, And I thought that would happen multiple times, all we need is WAR!!!
(Caldari feeding Biomass to the Gallente Scum, Minmatar free slave raidsà etc)
Players then could ôchangeö the face of Eve with Raiding Parties, Defend your Homeworlds etcà (bring much more PvP and hopefull get rid of the JiP Ganking Killing anything that moves)
Make hauling between systems more interesting. -- force a ôdocking feeö in systems that you have low faction with, buy ôsafeö passes through systems, protect you from the local police for a set about of time (say 10 min)
Keep New players safe from the Local Policeà If you are in your Newbie ship, and the local faction Police catch your, instead of podding you, youÆll get a warning, and AutoWarp back out of the system.
This would make Manufacturing more usefull, If you want a Caldari Ship, you need to go to Caldari Space or find a Local Vendor. Make the Manufacturing price higher for other faction ships/items while you are in a system.
--------------------------------------
Also, I would like to see Market Stability. Force a High and Low Limit on items. One reason why everyone has a battleship is because they cost the fraction of what the did before. Get rid of the trit for 1 milà cap it at 3 or 5 per. These ôBuy low sell highö ôDealsö is too close to greifing in my book.
Anyway, thatÆs my 2 isk
_______________________________
Newg Runecasting -- CEO
-(o)-
Red Eye
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