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strangescript
Solus Ventures
6
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Posted - 2015.12.09 19:36:40 -
[1] - Quote
At first glance I was happy to see the boosts to the punisher. I played around with some fittings but in the end it feels like a useless ship.
With good skills it does average damage and has a monster tank (albeit buffer). This is all well and good, but why fly it?
Its very slow, especially with a plate buffer. It can't lock anything down with only 2 midslots. In medium to large frigate gangs, you aren't being targeted because your dps is low and you tank is big. In small gangs you are a liability because you are slow and can't tackle.
An Omen is nearly as mobile with better tackle, range, dps, EHP.
I feel like I am being a debbie downer about this but I just want a 4/3/4 or even 4/3/3 with the exact same stats on the punisher. A purest gunboat for the amarr frig user. (no damn drones plx)
Meanwhile the Rifter is a 4/3/3 but could easily be successful as a speed range frigate with 4/2/4. Admittedly the extra mid is for a possible shield extender/booster but frig combat isn't like all the other tiers and there are plenty of viable web/scramb rifters with a plate or ancillary rep.
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Paranoid Loyd
7653
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Posted - 2015.12.09 19:39:33 -
[2] - Quote
Put 5 stabs on and laugh at MNIs when they try to catch you.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
542
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Posted - 2015.12.09 20:03:38 -
[3] - Quote
to suck at stuff now.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2887
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Posted - 2015.12.10 02:03:13 -
[4] - Quote
Its very good for pve (in amarr space) ...but that's all I can think of.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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strangescript
Solus Ventures
6
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Posted - 2015.12.10 02:19:21 -
[5] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Its very good for pve (in amarr space) ...but that's all I can think of.
Yeah, I reread the discussion here about it and I guess that was the goal. That being said, its still pretty uninspiring. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
250
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Posted - 2015.12.10 02:20:03 -
[6] - Quote
the problem is that it only has one bonus. |
strangescript
Solus Ventures
6
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Posted - 2015.12.10 02:27:30 -
[7] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:the problem is that it only has one bonus.
Kind of. I sold off all my characters and just have this guy. I am training for a confessor, I have been messing around with mid level setups on amarr ships. You definitely notice not having the cap bonus. You might argue lasers are not strong enough for how much cap they consume, I dunno. A coercer can't even function without that bonus. It runs out of cap from shooting its guns alone within a few minutes with mid level skills.
I guess the punisher is the noob boat now. |
Shalashaska Adam
Partial Safety
119
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Posted - 2015.12.10 02:37:09 -
[8] - Quote
It's role is pretty simple, same as it was before, heavy tackle.
Just does it even better now. |
strangescript
Solus Ventures
6
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Posted - 2015.12.10 02:52:57 -
[9] - Quote
Shalashaska Adam wrote:It's role is pretty simple, same as it was before, heavy tackle.
Just does it even better now.
What exactly are you tackling? |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
250
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Posted - 2015.12.10 03:06:13 -
[10] - Quote
strangescript wrote:Lady Rift wrote:the problem is that it only has one bonus. Kind of. I sold off all my characters and just have this guy. I am training for a confessor, I have been messing around with mid level setups on amarr ships. You definitely notice not having the cap bonus. You might argue lasers are not strong enough for how much cap they consume, I dunno. A coercer can't even function without that bonus. It runs out of cap from shooting its guns alone within a few minutes with mid level skills. I guess the punisher is the noob boat now.
every other ship that has that bonus also has an other bonus to laser to make them worth using. the punisher as it is its works better with ac's |
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
250
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Posted - 2015.12.10 03:07:13 -
[11] - Quote
strangescript wrote:Shalashaska Adam wrote:It's role is pretty simple, same as it was before, heavy tackle.
Just does it even better now. What exactly are you tackling?
things without prop mod. Afk or auto pilot fools. people that forget to turn there prop mod on. |
Shalashaska Adam
Partial Safety
119
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Posted - 2015.12.10 03:16:07 -
[12] - Quote
strangescript wrote:What exactly are you tackling?
Battleships, Battlecruisers, Cruisers, apart from AB+web ones, the minority.
Destroyers, Frigates, if mwd fit, the majority.
Anything that can't do more than 800 m/s while scrammed.
Which is a surprisingly large number of things. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2887
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Posted - 2015.12.10 03:45:35 -
[13] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:strangescript wrote:Lady Rift wrote:the problem is that it only has one bonus. Kind of. I sold off all my characters and just have this guy. I am training for a confessor, I have been messing around with mid level setups on amarr ships. You definitely notice not having the cap bonus. You might argue lasers are not strong enough for how much cap they consume, I dunno. A coercer can't even function without that bonus. It runs out of cap from shooting its guns alone within a few minutes with mid level skills. I guess the punisher is the noob boat now. every other ship that has that bonus also has an other bonus to laser to make them worth using. the punisher as it is its works better with ac's
That really depends. The cap bonus isnt redundant and the punishers 4th Gun is like having a rof role bonus of 25% (albeit to all turret types).
Edit- and the ab/scram tacke set up isnt bad at all.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
54
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Posted - 2015.12.10 10:15:14 -
[14] - Quote
3x1.25=3.75 turrets. Now it has 4, and can spend cap like it had 2.
It got a small boost in firepower and stamina.
A signature :o
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2758
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Posted - 2015.12.10 10:28:08 -
[15] - Quote
Consider the sig radius. It'll be good in 1v1s against cruisers because they can't track it or kite it unless they can web outside of its attack range.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15419
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Posted - 2015.12.10 12:44:11 -
[16] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Put 5 stabs on and laugh at MNIs when they try to catch you.
That's what I'm using it for, chickenshit plex farming in FW.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
250
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Posted - 2015.12.10 13:03:58 -
[17] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:3x1.25=3.75 turrets. Now it has 4, and can spend cap like it had 2.
It got a small boost in firepower and stamina.
and it can fit autos to allow more fitting space save more on cap and the dmg doesn't change that much. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
250
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Posted - 2015.12.10 13:05:12 -
[18] - Quote
Shalashaska Adam wrote:strangescript wrote:What exactly are you tackling? Battleships, Battlecruisers, Cruisers, apart from AB+web ones, the minority. Destroyers, Frigates, if mwd fit, the majority. Anything that can't do more than 800 m/s while scrammed. Which is a surprisingly large number of things, really don't have to be that selective. Caracals, thoraxes, vexors, stabbers, omens, tempests, hyperions, armageddons, whatever you fancy.
if you can land the scram in the first place. |
Shalashaska Adam
Partial Safety
119
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Posted - 2015.12.10 14:37:18 -
[19] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:if you can land the scram in the first place.
Gotta give a heavy tackle something to do.
Not that targets doesnt usually lend a hand by staying put, or closing the distance themselves.
FW lowsec space makes it reasonably easy, most people just sit at zero on the beacons.
Many will even engage on gates and stations, letting the sentries do all the work.
Unless you got an army, once scram is on that punishers going nowhere. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2889
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Posted - 2015.12.10 15:58:04 -
[20] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:Shallanna Yassavi wrote:3x1.25=3.75 turrets. Now it has 4, and can spend cap like it had 2.
It got a small boost in firepower and stamina. and it can fit autos to allow more fitting space save more on cap and the dmg doesn't change that much.
What you seem to have an issue with is lasers not the punisher.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3698
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Posted - 2015.12.10 19:41:53 -
[21] - Quote
It's literally just a flying lump of armor. It boggles the mind that they put the ridiculous non-bonus of laser cap use back on it. Presumably CCP live in a magical fantasy land where lasers are so powerful they can compete with every other weapon system in the game with no bonuses. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
9652
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Posted - 2015.12.10 20:38:10 -
[22] - Quote
Quote:With good skills it does average damage and has a monster tank (albeit buffer). This is all well and good, but why fly it?
Question has been answered
Thread can now be closed, burned, and buried
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
683
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Posted - 2015.12.10 20:38:12 -
[23] - Quote
Oy.. has anyone actually looked at its stats since the buff? So much of the information being passed around is wrong.
1. The punisher is not slow. Its faster than kite tristans now and can go over 4k/s OH with a single nano. Its also agile as all hell. One nano gives it a 2.7s align time with prop off. The speed and agility apply well to 10mn AB fits or as mwd anti kiter
2. Stop assuming the punisher must be fit with 400mm plates. It works fine with an AAR and still has loads of mobility
3. 4 turrets+cap bonus is more damage than 3 turrets and a damage bonus. Except now with the cap bonus its only shooting 2 turrets worth of cap, instead of 3 (prebuff). 10mn beam fits can do about 170dps out to 9km and for my anti-kiter pulse fit about 190 with multi or 230 OH with conflag. There are benefits to using lasers, stop echo chambering the same crap from people who dont know how to fit.
4. Autocannons have terrible application past 6-7km, lasers do not. Have fun being scram kited in your dual 400mm plated punisher with 125mm acs.
Actually try and fly the ship and be creative, instead of trying to squeeze out max EHP numbers and you will find it has quite a few uses. This isnt aimed directly at OP, but just in general to everyone throwing around wrong information.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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Shalashaska Adam
Partial Safety
119
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Posted - 2015.12.10 22:38:46 -
[24] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote: Actually try and fly the ship and be creative, instead of trying to squeeze out max EHP numbers and you will find it has quite a few uses. This isnt aimed directly at OP, but just in general to everyone throwing around wrong information.
Max ehp fit also happens to be amazing though, was before the update, is even more so now. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
688
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Posted - 2015.12.10 23:26:15 -
[25] - Quote
Shalashaska Adam wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote: Actually try and fly the ship and be creative, instead of trying to squeeze out max EHP numbers and you will find it has quite a few uses. This isnt aimed directly at OP, but just in general to everyone throwing around wrong information.
Max ehp fit also happens to be amazing though, was before the update, is even more so now.
I believe you and i do recognize that fit as a valid niche. But when people say its slow, im assuming its because they have 2 400mm plates on it with 3 trimarks and an AB. Then go "huuurrr its slow".
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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Foxstar Damaskeenus
Calibrated Chaos Triumvirate.
272
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Posted - 2015.12.10 23:28:19 -
[26] - Quote
I would have to think, without even checking that these frigs which are easy to train for, could make some outstanding fleet doctrine ships, especially for factional warfare. With T-2 logi, wow.
Having new players able to fly a strong ship in a small gang that fits in an armor doctrine would be great. I don't know if the Punisher will be any good with two mids solo but somebody will do it.
No changes to skill points EVER!!!
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Shalashaska Adam
Partial Safety
119
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Posted - 2015.12.10 23:51:24 -
[27] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:I believe you and i do recognize that fit as a valid niche. But when people say its slow, im assuming its because they have 2 400mm plates on it with 3 trimarks and an AB. Then go "huuurrr its slow".
Still faster than a vengeance or retribution with plates, I don't think many people appreciate that 800 m/s isn't that bad when you have a combined 400+400+200 of plates on board. Fast and agile enough to do its heavy tackle job well. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
689
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Posted - 2015.12.11 00:13:34 -
[28] - Quote
Shalashaska Adam wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:I believe you and i do recognize that fit as a valid niche. But when people say its slow, im assuming its because they have 2 400mm plates on it with 3 trimarks and an AB. Then go "huuurrr its slow". Out of the 8 damage dealer t1 frigates, it is faster than the Merlin, Incursus, Tormentor, Kestrel and Tristan, only the two minmatar frigates are faster, and even then only by 12 ms. It's the fastest non minmatar combat t1 frigate in the game. Also has the most slots and the most fitting resources of all of them. It doesn't have a third mid for a reason.
Agreed. Im fine with how the punisher is setup. Like I mentioned, its not as slow as everyone makes it out to be. Its only slow when fit with plates for max EHP. But that applies to most frigs.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1333
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Posted - 2015.12.11 18:27:10 -
[29] - Quote
strangescript wrote:Shalashaska Adam wrote:It's role is pretty simple, same as it was before, heavy tackle.
Just does it even better now. What exactly are you tackling?
you are tackling what ever the fast tackle grabbed you are just able to hold it longer past the point the light tackle may have popped
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Shalashaska Adam
Partial Safety
119
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Posted - 2015.12.11 19:34:02 -
[30] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: you are tackling what ever the fast tackle grabbed you are just able to hold it longer past the point the light tackle may have popped
In our case, the Punisher is our only tackle.
It is responsible for catching every target, and holding it for the entire duration of the fight until the target is dead.
We pair it with snipers, so the tackle has to withstand the entire offense of whatever grid it warps on to.
But pairing it with a fast tackle works excellently as well. |
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