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The solo experience.

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Argyle Jones Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.01.14 19:54:00 - [1] Hey lads and lassies. Given the changes in revelations part 1 and following patches, I thought it might be interesting to discuss an aspect of EVE I feel has been left a little behind. The soloing experience. Following is a list of things I feel are making it hard to be on your own in EVE. PVP The recent hitpoints increase was a hot issue on these forums, yet even though it's true that it prolongs the battle experience in gang combat, it seems it has the opposite effect on 1on1 PvP. Situations such as a heads up match between two battleships now often end with the weaker part simply stopping his attack waiting for aggro timer to run out and then docks or jumps through a gate. Another situation is the one where you'd normally be able to kill off a target from a bigger gang before his mates came to the rescue, which is now also harder to do. The increase in time required to (un)anchor bubbles also makes that a less attractive option to the solo player. Capitals The whole cyno thing is pretty crazy. If you're a solo player you'll need to be paying for 2 accounts just to be able to move your ship about. Ok, most of the cap ship owners probably have that anyway but in principle it seems a little wrong. Then there's the "10 minute stuck in space" delay. Why? What purpose does it serve, other than making sure that expensive recon ships with cyno creation bonuses aren't a viable option for the task they were designed for? Sure, if you're in a big alliance, you can jump from POS to POS or have a lot of friends around in the systems you're jumping through it's probably not an issue. But for the solo player, you'd better have cheap access to cynofield generators. Missions & complexes. No cap ships in complexes anymore. I suppose alot of people have complained about this already, but it does fit the list of things that hurts the solo player. You can easily run a plex if you're 3-4 guys with a command ship tanker, but the guy who likes to do things on his own is again shut out from a major part of the game. Now don't get me wrong. I approve of most of the changes we've seen over the past years. I like that EVE is evolving. Next installment of Revelations is going to be about factional warfare. Stuff for the alliances and blobs. Just don't forget that some people still fly one ship when fighting, doing industry and whatever else. /Argyle
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.14 20:18:00 - [2] Is eVe a solo game? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Romeda Minmatar Trojan industries	Posted - 2007.01.14 20:21:00 - [3] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Is eVe a solo game? I play solo. There is more of us than you think.
Gone'Postal Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division	Posted - 2007.01.14 20:26:00 - [4] even states it can be on the back of the orginal box. Known Issues & Workarounds - The forum to fix the issues of Eve... Godhelp us if the Devs start trying to.
Ediz Daxx FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.14 20:26:00 - [5] Originally by: Romeda Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Is eVe a solo game? I play solo. There is more of us than you think. Are you going to revolt?
Romeda Minmatar Trojan industries	Posted - 2007.01.14 20:28:00 - [6] Originally by: Ediz Daxx Originally by: Romeda Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Is eVe a solo game? I play solo. There is more of us than you think. Are you going to revolt? That would be a solo affair
Sorela Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.14 20:47:00 - [7] Last thing you want to do is try to get an honest discussion about soloing going on an MMO's forums. A lot of people have serious emotional investment in elitism through grouping. These people will quickly jump to the cause of loudly smashing down any thread about soloing. Regarding PvP though it's unlikely anything can be done about that easily. Some day some genius dev might think of some interesting game dynamics that support balancing the sides in a pvp fight that are also interesting. Clearly though nobody has done it yet. On capitals though it'll be interesting to see what they do. Theres no denying the fact that empire people are the majority in the game. If CCP continues to let those people feel like they have their advancement artificially blocked by the inability to fly advanced ships in empire though that could cause problems. That really depends on if any of the capital ships ever replace the battleship as the de facto standard though.
Corbin Devereux Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.14 21:09:00 - [8] Edited by: Corbin Devereux on 14/01/2007 21:13:37 Edited by: Corbin Devereux on 14/01/2007 21:07:25 Capital ships are designed as the flagship of a fleet. They're not supposed to be solo pwnmobiles. Needing teamwork to use them is a good thing. Anyone else think it was a little crazy that the OP complained about his ability to fight groups by himself? Sounds like he just can't handle working with others and wants everything made easier. Originally by: Sorela If CCP continues to let those people feel like they have their advancement artificially blocked by the inability to fly advanced ships in empire though that could cause problems. Advanced capitals like dreads? Dreads the siege tool for taking down pos shields? I think it might have to do with there not being pos in jita...
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.01.14 21:11:00 - [9] I sort of agree with point one, but two and three are just plain wrong. You should never be able to solo in capital ships or run missions and/or plexes with them, period Its great being Amarr and flying NosDoms, Isn't it?!
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.14 21:13:00 - [10] Content rewarding for the soloplayer (in ingame terms rewarding i mean, like in isk/hour, reputation gained or whatever), is always exponentially more rewardign for groups. That's why a game designed with solo content up to the endgame swiftly becomes utterly boring for groups, seeing how any group of utter nubs can do the same as a single vet, which is especially true in Eve. So, solo content fine, but it always will be a step below the aims groups can set themselves in this game, because otherwise the balanced solocontent turns into imbalanced group content. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Romeda Minmatar Trojan industries	Posted - 2007.01.14 21:14:00 - [11] Originally by: Nir I sort of agree with point one, but two and three are just plain wrong. You should never be able to solo in capital ships or run missions and/or plexes with them, period Never ran into Ginger Magician solo camping a gate 23/7 with the Thantos?
Argyle Jones Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.01.14 23:14:00 - [12] Edited by: Argyle Jones on 14/01/2007 23:13:32 Not trying to get the game mechanics changed here. Just wanted a little discussion on the topic. I'm in a corp (and alliance) myself, and we do alot of group pvp, ranging from POS battles to small roaming gangs. I do however enjoy flying on my own as well, taking time off from ts, and just going for that nice 1on1 experience that'll get your blood pumping. As to the capital ships, I never got the argument "this or that was designed to do that, so now it can't ever evolve". Everything changes in EVE. I don't think a cap ship would ever be a solo pwn-mobile, not even if you allowed the cyno-ship a fair chance to live. I agree that solo content (meaning one players interactions with the npc's) shouldn't be as rewarding as a group effort. Would be nice to see more options for the solo player, both in carebear ways and in PVP, that's all ;).
Kedryn Caitin	Posted - 2007.01.14 23:24:00 - [13] Originally by: Corbin Devereux Why do people come to MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER games and complain they can't do absolutely everything solo? Why can't they just play oblivion instead of trying to get multiplayer stuff nerfed in a multiplayer game? I do not usually post but I really hate seeing these responses. Yes, they are MMOs. I do not see them called MCOs. Some people, for various reasons, end up playing solo in multiplayer games. People like competing AGAINST people and not AI. When they call it Massive COOPERATIVE Online games your argument will have some weight. Otherwise you are yet another person that wants to twist the game and genre to your desires and viewpoint. Also as has been stated that CCP has put forward in various venues that solo play is acceptable in this game, just more difficult. More difficult, not locked out of certain content. As to the changes, I personally like them. I also have no problems with how command ships and such are implemented other than I am glad to see CCP pushing for a more of a frontline role in them. They should be a huge investment and much harder for a single player to field. I just get so tired of people using multiplayer to stand for co-op.
Argyle Jones Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.01.14 23:24:00 - [14] Originally by: Corbin Devereux Anyone else think it was a little crazy that the OP complained about his ability to fight groups by himself? Sounds like he just can't handle working with others and wants everything made easier. Fairly presumptious of you to say that. Fact is I do work alot in group pvp, and quite successfully I might add. Before kali, you could often engage people who strayed too far from the flock, so to speak - kill 'em off quick and be off before his mates could catch you. Guirilla warfare stuff. Would also work in small gang vs bigger gang situations. After the nerf of t2 ammo and the hitpoints increase, this is becoming far more difficult.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.01.14 23:43:00 - [15] The biggest change for me as a solo player in Rev is the ability of a target's gangmates to warp within 0k of him...and usually me. While I'm fond of the expansion in most respects, that's one thing I'm still trying to deal with. None of the things listed in the OP bother me, though I'm glad the solo issue in general is being talked about. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.15 00:30:00 - [16] No one disputes your right to play solo. That does not mean that ALL aspects of the game should be available to you compared to those that team up.
Zinzal	Posted - 2007.01.15 00:50:00 - [17] I play solo for the simple reason I don't put enough hours in to give much to a Corporation. I still feel Im interacting though, even if its selling stuff Ive manufactured to an unknown person. Its a human that decided to buy at my price, not AI, which makes a big diferenc to me. Anyway, in another MMORG im heavily into the social side and arranger in a 'Corporation' and its great to get away from that and play EVE sometimes. The solo content is good but it is multiplayer so whatever I get im happy for. The best stuff should be a group effort, thats sort of the point of a MMORPG.
Ben Derindar KelBen Productions	Posted - 2007.01.15 00:55:00 - [18] Originally by: Argyle Jones Would be nice to see more options for the solo player, both in carebear ways and in PVP, that's all ;). You make your own options, whether you're a solo or a team player. /Ben How to fix Eve
MYSTERY ALT	Posted - 2007.01.15 02:49:00 - [19] IÆm not sure what everyone else here thinks, but I really enjoy undocking to do something on my own without having to beg or grovel for people to join a gang. I go out and do things in groups all the time, a little too much, its at the point where you can't do anything anymore without being in a group, but groups of people willing to do what you want to do aren't always easy to form.
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.15 02:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Ben Derindar You make your own options, whether you're a solo or a team player. /Ben Congratulations, you've won EVE. "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Sacul Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.01.15 03:24:00 - [21] I have never been much of a solo player myself but i did go out in small intie gangs (2-3) and guerilla the hell out of systems like KDF and surroundings (even before the outposts where there). Its a whole damn harder to near impossible nowadays. Yes, EvE evolves, excellent but its too bad that guerilla warfare is diminished very very much. (Revelations: -80% to Guerilla warfare effectivness). Btw, Argyle is very much a team player or else he wouldnt stand for my crap now would he! nor be in our alliance. DrunkZ with GunZ 4-ever!
Jenna Ashton	Posted - 2007.01.15 03:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Is eVe a solo game? Give me half your wallet, and I'll give you half my wallet. After that I'll Agree that EVE is 100% NOT solo.

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