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Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2007.01.16 23:00:00 -
[1]
Since the Sacrilege was made, it could take tanking to the extreme. Like most HAC's, its small and speedy (as far as Cruiser > Battleships go) hull is perfect for its great high resistance tank.
Due to the Sacrilege's terrible damage output though, even with the damage bonus, it has never been called primary against anyone who knows what he is doing. Simply put, they save the best for last.
Possible change would be, drop a high slot for a low slot. 6 Low slots and 5 high slots would possibly enable the Heatsink option. Or even a plated option. At the moment its hard enough to fit the highs with NOS + guns, just nos, or just guns. Drop a high slot for a low and you can improve whatever you like, thus making it a bit more versatile than just tanking until its cab boosters run out.
Most people dont fit guns anyways because if your in a gang, your gang better be able to take the target out by themselves.
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Constantine Arcanum
Gallente IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2007.01.16 23:06:00 -
[2]
/signed I helped - Cortes What a shiny and lovely place here - Eshtir Well lets make it a party atleast :D -Xorus RAWWWR!11!!1!2 SIG HIJACK!!11!1 I found it first, get orrrfff moiiii laaannnd - Cortes |
korrey
Taurus Inc
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Posted - 2007.01.16 23:37:00 -
[3]
/Signed
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Scordite
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Posted - 2007.01.16 23:37:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Angus McLean At the moment its hard enough to fit the highs with NOS + guns, just nos, or just guns.
Ancillary Current Router I?
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Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2007.01.17 00:35:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Scordite
Originally by: Angus McLean At the moment its hard enough to fit the highs with NOS + guns, just nos, or just guns.
Ancillary Current Router I?
Rig slots are oh so important on ships. Especially T2 ships with 1 less than T1. Its wasting a slot you dont have to use, mainly because few people like to fit guns anyways. The object would be to use those on cap stuff to keep it nos proof.
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Slaptastic
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Posted - 2007.01.17 00:37:00 -
[6]
really /signed
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Ashy'Larry
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Posted - 2007.01.17 01:07:00 -
[7]
Great proposal, to be honest ALL the highest tier HACs could do with some tweaks.
Sacri as you said needs an extra slot for damage mods. Remove highslot in return for a lowslot.
Eagle's rail DPS is now laughable and it really needs its fifth turret that has been asked for since the ship came out. To further increase its survivability against single tacklers give it a 25m¦ dronebay.
Muninn is the Matari Eagle - but it has too few medslots to truely shine. Remove a highslot and give it a medslot in return.
Deimos needs the agility and base speed of a Thorax.
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DanMck
Amarr Rionnag Alba Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.17 01:29:00 -
[8]
bit more grid captain and some damage would be nice
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korrey
Taurus Inc
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Posted - 2007.01.17 01:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: DanMck bit more grid captain and some damage would be nice
Agreed
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Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2007.01.17 01:42:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Angus McLean on 17/01/2007 01:38:36
Originally by: Ashy'Larry Great proposal, to be honest ALL the highest tier HACs could do with some tweaks.
Sacri as you said needs an extra slot for damage mods. Remove highslot in return for a lowslot.
Eagle's rail DPS is now laughable and it really needs its fifth turret that has been asked for since the ship came out. To further increase its survivability against single tacklers give it a 25m¦ dronebay.
Deimos needs the agility and base speed of a Thorax.
Yeah there are definately issues with a few HAC's right now. Mainly the Sacrilege and the Eagle, I think they are the worst.
Would be nice to add a low :( so I wont have to use rig slots to gap my therm hole. Muninn is the Matari Eagle - but it has too few medslots to truely shine. Remove a highslot and give it a medslot in return.
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Tisanta
Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
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Posted - 2007.01.17 02:08:00 -
[11]
this is why i pilot a recon :( cus it does the job of a HAC.. better than a HAC.. isnt it ment to be primary damage too unlike AF's which are support? ---
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2007.01.17 02:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tisanta this is why i pilot a recon :( cus it does the job of a HAC.. better than a HAC.. isnt it ment to be primary damage too unlike AF's which are support?
Yeah thats what the description of Heavy Assault Ships says, but I beg to differ
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Scordite
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Posted - 2007.01.17 06:55:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Angus McLean
Originally by: Scordite Ancillary Current Router I?
Rig slots are oh so important on ships. Especially T2 ships with 1 less than T1. Its wasting a slot you dont have to use, mainly because few people like to fit guns anyways. The object would be to use those on cap stuff to keep it nos proof.
Using pg rigs to fit more nos.. That would be the very key definition of "using those one cap stuff to keep it nos proof". On a ship like this, I can't really think of a better way to use the rig slots than for being able to make zero compromises in mids and lows, and still fit a full rack of nos+neuts, which are at the same time the ultimate nos defense AND extremely annoying (most likely fatal as well) for whoever you're focusing on. Basically, the pg rigs used like this become at the same time a potent defense, and a strenghtening of your offense.
How is this a waste of slots again? What would you rather fit there?
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Dragy
Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2007.01.17 07:29:00 -
[14]
Wouldn't you rather fit soemthing else in those 2 rig slots ? Like some "hardeners" or get your dmg up ? That's one thing.
If you remember correctly the sacrilege has been given additional pg. Why should it be given any more ? I admit that the damage output aint great, but then again zealot with HP II's and 2 dmg mods only does 388 dmg.
The amarrian way of pvp is now really needed and if you don't know how to setup your Sac, you do not deserve flying this beauty.
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Wild Rho
Amarr Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2007.01.17 08:24:00 -
[15]
The whole approach to khandid ships needs reworked. There was a great post a while ago (Khandid MkII) about turning them into armour tanking missile ships that sounded solid. Whether or not anything comes of it is another question.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Scordite
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Posted - 2007.01.17 10:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dragy Wouldn't you rather fit soemthing else in those 2 rig slots ? Like some "hardeners" or get your dmg up ?
Getting dmg up is done much more effectively by switching to zealot, absolution or harbinger. Resist rigs would be stacking nerfed anyways, and pg rigs + hardeners is much more effective than resist rigs + rcu. If it had enough grid to fit nos/neut, mwd, tackling gear, injector and tank with only 1 pg rig, I'd happily take a rep amount or rep cycle time rig, sure. But achieving this by removing the slot where the neut goes sounds like a nerf, not a boost.
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Dragy
Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2007.01.17 17:13:00 -
[17]
Sac is for leet tanking not for dealing dmg. 200 dps with 90+% resistances, dual rep and enough cap to sustain it for 10 minutes is enough. Thank you, goodnight
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RossP Zoyka
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Posted - 2007.01.17 17:42:00 -
[18]
drones, insane cap, unreal resists, decent # of meds, now people want the ship to have frickin sharks with laserbeams on their heads!
It makes me sick that people hate this ship. You don't have to go all tank with the lows. The inherent tank on this ship is pretty decent to begin with. A gank setup with HS's on the lows and Missle Rigs would waste people. Let the Sacrilige "reputation tank", in a group nobody will know where the damage is coming from anyways.
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Dragy
Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2007.01.17 18:41:00 -
[19]
Originally by: RossP Zoyka drones, insane cap, unreal resists, decent # of meds, now people want the ship to have frickin sharks with laserbeams on their heads!
It makes me sick that people hate this ship. You don't have to go all tank with the lows. The inherent tank on this ship is pretty decent to begin with. A gank setup with HS's on the lows and Missle Rigs would waste people. Let the Sacrilige "reputation tank", in a group nobody will know where the damage is coming from anyways.
Finally someone that makes sense !
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Scordite
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Posted - 2007.01.17 18:59:00 -
[20]
Reputation tank, I like it
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Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2007.01.17 19:28:00 -
[21]
Originally by: RossP Zoyka drones, insane cap, unreal resists, decent # of meds, now people want the ship to have frickin sharks with laserbeams on their heads!
It makes me sick that people hate this ship. You don't have to go all tank with the lows. The inherent tank on this ship is pretty decent to begin with. A gank setup with HS's on the lows and Missle Rigs would waste people. Let the Sacrilige "reputation tank", in a group nobody will know where the damage is coming from anyways.
Now to expand that idea, we can drop a high for a low and use it for a heatsink to do just this
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RossP Zoyka
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Posted - 2007.01.17 19:58:00 -
[22]
Would a Heat Sink be worth losing a Missle Turret? I'm not partial to math.
DPS increase of another HS with stacking penalty minus the DPS loss of losing a Missle Turret = a positive number then yes, the ship would gank better. Hmmmmm.
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Scordite
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Posted - 2007.01.17 20:08:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Angus McLean
Originally by: RossP Zoyka drones, insane cap, unreal resists, decent # of meds, now people want the ship to have frickin sharks with laserbeams on their heads!
It makes me sick that people hate this ship. You don't have to go all tank with the lows. The inherent tank on this ship is pretty decent to begin with. A gank setup with HS's on the lows and Missle Rigs would waste people. Let the Sacrilige "reputation tank", in a group nobody will know where the damage is coming from anyways.
Now to expand that idea, we can drop a high for a low and use it for a heatsink to do just this
I think you misunderstood him, Angus..
He's talking about a setup something like 4x heavy pulse, 2x ham launchers, mwd, injector, 2x tracking comps, 3x heatsinks, power diag and nano + launcher rof and launcher dmg rigs (incidentally, this setup needs max fitting skills and -3% cpu need of either turrets or launchers, unless you want to drop a t2 tracking comp down to an optical). THAT's a true reputation tank.
According to quickfit this puts out just above 470 dps on structure with warrior IIs, and as you can clearly see, removing high slots for any reason would lower this by quite a bit.
If you want to change the sacri, make it the khanid MK2 version. Otherwise, hands off in my opinion.
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Ogdru Jahad
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.18 00:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Scordite
Originally by: Angus McLean
Originally by: RossP Zoyka drones, insane cap, unreal resists, decent # of meds, now people want the ship to have frickin sharks with laserbeams on their heads!
It makes me sick that people hate this ship. You don't have to go all tank with the lows. The inherent tank on this ship is pretty decent to begin with. A gank setup with HS's on the lows and Missle Rigs would waste people. Let the Sacrilige "reputation tank", in a group nobody will know where the damage is coming from anyways.
Now to expand that idea, we can drop a high for a low and use it for a heatsink to do just this
I think you misunderstood him, Angus..
He's talking about a setup something like 4x heavy pulse, 2x ham launchers, mwd, injector, 2x tracking comps, 3x heatsinks, power diag and nano + launcher rof and launcher dmg rigs (incidentally, this setup needs max fitting skills and -3% cpu need of either turrets or launchers, unless you want to drop a t2 tracking comp down to an optical). THAT's a true reputation tank.
According to quickfit this puts out just above 470 dps on structure with warrior IIs, and as you can clearly see, removing high slots for any reason would lower this by quite a bit.
If you want to change the sacri, make it the khanid MK2 version. Otherwise, hands off in my opinion.
Sorry to say your setup would fail in te long run vs a properly fitted sac, Mine permatanks low sec sentry guns... -
WTB 40 units of celadon Cystoserocin msg or convo me ingame pls |
Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2007.01.18 02:42:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Scordite
Originally by: Angus McLean
Originally by: RossP Zoyka drones, insane cap, unreal resists, decent # of meds, now people want the ship to have frickin sharks with laserbeams on their heads!
Now to expand that idea, we can drop a high for a low and use it for a heatsink to do just this
I think you misunderstood him, Angus..
He's talking about a setup something like 4x heavy pulse, 2x ham launchers, mwd, injector, 2x tracking comps, 3x heatsinks, power diag and nano + launcher rof and launcher dmg rigs (incidentally, this setup needs max fitting skills and -3% cpu need of either turrets or launchers, unless you want to drop a t2 tracking comp down to an optical). THAT's a true reputation tank.
According to quickfit this puts out just above 470 dps on structure with warrior IIs, and as you can clearly see, removing high slots for any reason would lower this by quite a bit.
If you want to change the sacri, make it the khanid MK2 version. Otherwise, hands off in my opinion.
It makes me sick that people hate this ship. You don't have to go all tank with the lows. The inherent tank on this ship is pretty decent to begin with. A gank setup with HS's on the lows and Missle Rigs would waste people. Let the Sacrilige "reputation tank", in a group nobody will know where the damage is coming from anyways.
TBH I dont really know why im arguing. 470 dps from the Sac would be a god-send. Although I do like the idea of having a tanking role, I mean I believe you said yourself a bit ago that for damage you may as well buy a Harby or zealot.
So I think the role of the sac, ridiculous tanking, would be better put to use if it had another low for at least a DPS increase of any sort. That way it wont be a major threat, but enough to where people would at least lock it and attempt to kill it first.
Then we could have a tanker that can deal a nice amount of dps, and still do its role. I would be happy to get 270 or so dps from it, maybe 300 while still tanking.
Then again this whole thread is just based on what I want the sac to be heh.
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Mazzazuri
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.18 02:57:00 -
[26]
signed this guys doing ccp's job
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Scordite
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Posted - 2007.01.18 12:24:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ogdru Jahad Sorry to say your setup would fail in te long run vs a properly fitted sac, Mine permatanks low sec sentry guns...
First of all, it's not my setup, I just put some numbers on what RossP Zoyka was saying. Second, are you serious? You'd have to be flying a piece of junk (no offense intended to minmatar pilots) to NOT beat that sac setup 1vs1. How about reading the posts before spewing nonsense? The whole point was for small/med gang pvp, where everyone knows sac has a hard tank and crap damage, and thus save it for last, you could fit 100% gank as per the setup above, not get shot at because everyone thinks you're doing less damage than an AF while being almost as hard to kill as a command ship, and still kick out almost 500dps while you laugh at their foolishness. Until all your friends die, in which case you go pop VERY quick, and the opposing gang gets a good laugh.
That was the concept RossP suggested, and I explained in further detail.
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Scordite
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Posted - 2007.01.18 12:30:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Angus McLean Then again this whole thread is just based on what I want the sac to be heh.
Yeah. I think most people want it to be something like as suggested in Sarmaul's Khanid MK2 thread. Armor tanking missile boat. Until that happens, I think you're better off trying to work with it as is (heavy tackler nos boat, reputation tank ganker, whatever else you can think of) instead of asking for changes like swapping slots around.
----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead. |
Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2007.01.18 12:39:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Scordite
Originally by: Angus McLean Then again this whole thread is just based on what I want the sac to be heh.
Yeah. I think most people want it to be something like as suggested in Sarmaul's Khanid MK2 thread. Armor tanking missile boat. Until that happens, I think you're better off trying to work with it as is (heavy tackler nos boat, reputation tank ganker, whatever else you can think of) instead of asking for changes like swapping slots around.
Yeah, im totally behind the Sarmauls Mk-II idea, unfortuately for the time being ccp has failed to read that thread as well. Along with a few other threads that could balance the game oh so much more.
They seriously need a new Dev who only watches the forums for good ideas, that would be good.
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RossP Zoyka
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Posted - 2007.01.18 14:53:00 -
[30]
Would adding more missle turrets really make the sacrilege that much better? Maybe for variable damage, but in raw damage output I was under the impression that lasers were better?
1v1, the sac would be worthless. But right now, I think it could be one of the more amazing small gang HACs out there. This ship is one mean tackling machine in a HAC pack. Throw a few nanos in the lows, webber, MWD, nos, missles, drones. It will slap your momma.
PS. 3 nos, 3 missles = even with MWD your cap will be fine to run dual reps
PSS. Sadly, nanos will weaken your ability to fit resists :( you'll be stuck with only like 70% everything unfortunately.
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