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Master Han Order of Endruring Marshalls	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:04:00 - [1] I am sick of 2+ year old characters mining belts in high security space. I am a relatively new character and try to make ISK for skill books by mining. I think that after a certain period, the tax rate in NPC corps should go up to 20% or more. This would force players out into player corps and allow ****ed off people like me to hire Mercs to slay those belt destroying scum. I mean they kick a player out of rookie channel after 30 days, so why not increase tax rate for players in NPC corps w/ more than 6 months of time in game. Many other players say I should do ratting or kill missions but I would rather conserve my time spent training to the area I am interested in: industry. My buddy and me just want to set up a small trade corp and I prefer to mine for my own minerals and not have to buy them from someone using a BOT or something to clear the belts in the beginner areas.
Kharakan Amarr Morticus Impendium	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:05:00 - [2] Edited by: Kharakan on 17/01/2007 22:02:44 "sum1 eltz iz steelin mai roidz, plz let me killz dem plz"? EDIT: I'm all for nerfing NPC corps somewhat, but not so that people can kill other miners and take their stuff 'lulz'. But if they're macro miners go ahead this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
Tkdzzix Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:12:00 - [3] No NPC corps, No macrobots, just me, my hulk, and some veldspar crystals BAYBEEEEEEEE...
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:13:00 - [4] So to get the 500 (as an example...I have no idea) macro miners you want to toss 20,000 (again an example) people who have no desire to be in a player run corp on the street? Yes some people hide in NPC corps to avoid some issues and exploit the game. Most people in there I suspect like it that way though as their preferred method of gameplay. When you have Alliances like Privateers war deccing the Universe it is not surprising many feel more comfortable in the NPC corps. If it is macro miners you are after there are many things you can try to mess up their day. Steal their ore, blast their cans, suicide gank them, bump them out of position, perhaps get aggro on them by jetting a can of yours by the same name and move their stuff into that one and hope the macro loots it...there are lots of ideas on this. If you really find a big macro OP petition them then have a ball taking their stuff.
Master Han Order of Endruring Marshalls	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:16:00 - [5] Originally by: Humpalot If it is macro miners you are after there are many things you can try to mess up their day. Steal their ore, blast their cans, suicide gank them, bump them out of position, perhaps get aggro on them by jetting a can of yours by the same name and move their stuff into that one and hope the macro loots it...there are lots of ideas on this. Wont I get attacked by CONCORD for stealing from the can or get blown up by sentry guns if I try to dock?
Tkdzzix Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:22:00 - [6] Can theft is totally between you and the guy you stole from, concord stays out of it. Steal all the ore you want from the guys you feel are hogging your ore, hell if its a dumb macro, you may make more off stealing ore than if you were mining on your own!!
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:25:00 - [7] Originally by: Master Han Wont I get attacked by CONCORD for stealing from the can or get blown up by sentry guns if I try to dock? Nope. If you steal from a can the player you stole from gets a 15 minute kill rights timer on you. So, within that 15 minutes they can shoot you without CONCORD coming. Note if you shoot FIRST then CONCORD will come get you. However, once they shoot at you then you can shoot back. Pirates will play this game. Go steal your ore, ticked off player attacks them back, pirate jets back to station, jumps in PvP ship and comes back out and blow them up.
Master Han Order of Endruring Marshalls	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Tkdzzix Can theft is totally between you and the guy you stole from, concord stays out of it. Steal all the ore you want from the guys you feel are hogging your ore, hell if its a dumb macro, you may make more off stealing ore than if you were mining on your own!! How do I tell if they are macro mining then?
Tkdzzix Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:39:00 - [9] Edited by: Tkdzzix on 17/01/2007 22:39:00 Observation. One main thing is to look at their bio and check the employment history and agents. If they have been in the same noob corp all their life, and only have 1 agent, there is a high possibility that they are a macro. In adition to this, you will usually have more than one ship with similar names, sometimes random garbage, sometimes things like Airplane Pilot and Car Driver, things like that. If you come to a belt and see a couple covetors mining away that exhibit these symptoms try convoing them. Might have to wait for the hauler to show to get a live person if it is someone doing like I do and runnning multiple accounts (perfectly legal, and accepted play). IF no response to the convo, or you get some kind of nonsense response, hop in a shuttle and head over to their can, pull out one unit of ore and then jet that to make a can of your own, then slap all their ore into your can. If the convoing didn't reveal that they were a real player, then this will, as they will either convo you asking why you stole their ore, or start screaming in local. If that is the case, then apologise and let them have the ore back, if still nothing, then its time to get your hauler and start exploiting the macros weakness. Occasionally, using these tactics, you will uncover what I like to call a 'sweatshop op', which is some poor sod in some 3rd world country that is running 4-10(or more) accounts in exchange for room and board (belive me, its real). In this case you will probably get someone who communicates in VERY poor english trying to get you to leave them alone. And in rare cases, these operations will have one live person in a battleship who is running protection for the mining ops, that will come and try to pop you, but from my experience, the protection usually cant do squat as hes also in a noob corp, and the corp-wide flagging rules dont apply there.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:41:00 - [10] Originally by: Master Han Originally by: Tkdzzix Can theft is totally between you and the guy you stole from, concord stays out of it. Steal all the ore you want from the guys you feel are hogging your ore, hell if its a dumb macro, you may make more off stealing ore than if you were mining on your own!! How do I tell if they are macro mining then? Depends on what you claim is a macro-miner. By definition it is someone that uses a control software to physically manipulate the mining process instead of doing it my hand. MOST (99%+) of what players call macro-miners are actually someone sitting at a bank of 10-20 computers controlling the process themselves. They even respond when you talk to them in local and get visibly ****ed when you flip their can or bump them away from it just like any other player. Basically you can't tell nor should you try. Since CCP hasn't declared someone with multiple machines online at a time against the rules, technically (in the context of EvE) they are not doing anything wrong. <-----------> MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests.... LowSec != NoSec
Sorela Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:48:00 - [11] Originally by: Master Han I am sick of 2+ year old characters mining belts in high security space. Uhh just so you know the "time in corp" gives zero indication of how old a character is. I started EvE a long time ago and kept retrying it several times and I've always thought it sucked up until RMR or so. Even after RMR I quit a couple times and am finally getting serious now that my skills don't completely suck (I hate being a newb). Thus I am listed as being nearly 3+ years old in an NPC corp and yes I have mined in high security for money. I am poor due to always having to buy skill books and stuff like implants. I'm finally thinking of looking for a corp and I've about 6 mil skill points. My point is don't assume you know anything about that player who's been in an NPC corp for a long time. You've no idea what the circumstances are and no clue how long their account was even activated. Considering how horrible this game was at release and how much better it is now I can't believe I'm the only person in the same situation.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:05:00 - [12] Originally by: Master Han I am sick of 2+ year old characters mining belts in high security space. That make me dubting you are sincere. Seen ten of times, always the same phrase. So are you one of the usual "nerf NPC corporation crowd" using a new name? If you are sincere: there are tons of reasons to be in a NPC corporation for old characters, including leaving or getting cast off from a PC corporation, little time to play, ecc. And stripminers used by a 2 years old player character in a PC corporation don't have less effect on a belt than if he isn in a NPC corporation. Or your supposed "new" industrial character want to war declare a corporation with 2 years old characters? Oh, yes, you want to hire mercs to destoy the mining scum (BTW: to do what? as miners are scum by your words). An idea of the price? I havent' it but I dubt even the more feeble will shot a iron small for less than 50 millions/day. Next time shot a little lower, maybe you will not overshot by a mile.
Jonaaka Kaliin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:22:00 - [13] I'm sick and tired of 2 month old noob-Corp Raven pilots shooting NPC's in my are. Difference is I kill them. You should look into that aspect of the game.
Mayoz Miner	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:32:00 - [14] Why are people so against this I don't know, the reason CCP does not nerf them is beacuse it add diversity to the game (cater for the uber carebear OMG what a crime !) If someone wants to stay in a NPC corp for there EVE life well let them, it is they who are going to miss out not you. Let they play there game, they are not untochable as you seem to think, with suicide ganking and whatever else the high sec pirates can come up with. TBH these are just my views I have only been playing eve about 3 months and I am in what i like to call 'phase 1' of my EVE time, I have a plan . In a month or two I will 'graduate' and join a good corp where I will make myself useful, but to them people that stay in NPC corps well .... they will miss out on some of the better parts of eve i'm sure. P.S. I cant believe you cant find any roids to mine in 1.0 - 0.5 ive been mining in belts where nobody ever goes, I think you need to fly about a bit, as for the BOT ...well im sure all 2 yr old chars in NPC corp are not BOTS.
Master Han Order of Endruring Marshalls	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:32:00 - [15] I am mining in a Burst at the moment and dont really have the room for alot of ore. So when I warp back to the roid I was mining and find it gone w/ a Covetor filling up a can, makes me as a new player kinda mad. Why not limit what ships can be used in the beginner area? I never claimed I would declare a war. First off if it is expensive as you say, it would take a lot of time to save that much ISK. And secondly I dont think my buddy would approve of it. Why would it cost so much for a Merc corp btw? I think 50M sounds a bit steep. I should think they are making money from destroying the people they are fighting by getting modules and salvage from the destroyed ships.
Billy Sastard Amarr Zephyr Enterprises Inc. Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:48:00 - [16] Because merc corps charge alot, thats about the long and the short of it. If you are having trouble mining in your current system, find another, there are hundreds of high sec systems that you can choose from, open your map, set it to color by pilots docked and in space, and find one that doesnt have many pilots, go there and mine in peace. Empire is not sole property of newbs, you should be happy enough that you get the protection from aggression that concord serves. -=^=-
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.18 00:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Master Han I am mining in a Burst at the moment and dont really have the room for alot of ore. So when I warp back to the roid I was mining and find it gone w/ a Covetor filling up a can, makes me as a new player kinda mad. Why not limit what ships can be used in the beginner area? I never claimed I would declare a war. First off if it is expensive as you say, it would take a lot of time to save that much ISK. And secondly I dont think my buddy would approve of it. Why would it cost so much for a Merc corp btw? I think 50M sounds a bit steep. I should think they are making money from destroying the people they are fighting by getting modules and salvage from the destroyed ships. Symple: thery have a price to pay to declare war, they risk losing ships (usually 2 years old characters have some decent skills) and a player with some month of experience can make 5-10 million every play hour easily. So if they must work for you they want similar money.
Romeda Minmatar Trojan industries	Posted - 2007.01.18 00:21:00 - [18] Sigh... Not another post on this, IBTL!
Actanna Levh Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.01.18 01:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Master Han I think that after a certain period, the tax rate in NPC corps should go up to 20% or more. This would force players out into player corps I do not agree with forcing players in particular directions, players (customers) will be happier if they can choose. There are a number of different motivations for being in NPC corps some are fair enough but many are to use game mechanics for some advantage. Being a long time Republic Military School member it is my considered opinion that an increase in tax after a certain period would not be unreasonable. 20% however sounds too high. There appear to be numerous sin committing alts (spies, thieves, pirates and freighter pilots) within newb corps that this would not really affect though. If those were all that were left, what values then would they be instilling in the next generation of pilots ? I am glad you recognised your own rant in the topic Master Han. If the ô2+ year oldö happened to be part of say Band of Brothers you would be still be in exactly the same situation you are in now, out competed for a scarce resource with little you can do about it.
Arian Snow The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.18 01:24:00 - [20] Edited by: Arian Snow on 18/01/2007 01:21:42 note to OP: wow you are a sad bitter individual! I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
Actanna Levh Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.01.18 01:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Romeda Sigh... Not another post on this, IBTL! Well it took me at least week to think about the issue from last post, so here was a good a place as any to comment. Maybe we can discuss it all again next week when a "new" thread comes. Ah forums.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.01.18 07:48:00 - [22] If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. NPC corps should have taxes. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.01.18 08:29:00 - [23] Originally by: Thor Xian If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. NPC corps should have taxes. what you propose is to lift concord protection from anyone who is in player corp, which would make wardec absolete.. why do so drastic change all of a sudden?
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.01.18 10:21:00 - [24] Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Originally by: Thor Xian If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. NPC corps should have taxes. what you propose is to lift concord protection from anyone who is in player corp, which would make wardec absolete.. why do so drastic change all of a sudden? Uh...not exactly. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Baron Oxes Hypermagic Mountain	Posted - 2007.01.18 10:30:00 - [25] There are some benefits to new players from having 'access' to older NPC corp players - they get to ask them all those annoying questions we all have when we first start, they get to go mining and ratting together and learn the ropes, some of the older players will even donate cash, ships and equipment to new players to help them on their way.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express	Posted - 2007.01.18 11:06:00 - [26] Any major nerf to NPC corporations would negatively impact the consumer base of the game. It would have a negative impact on the game in the future. As such efforts to nerf things are usually bad. Instead rather than imposing penalties on NPC corps you should look at providing more positives to player run corps so that they are more attractive. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
Feng Schui Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.01.18 11:44:00 - [27] I'm 7 months into the game, while I have "good" supplementary skills (electronics, engineering, mechanic, industry, learning), I'm no where near good enough for doing the corp thing yet. It should be 190ish more days before I'm ready. You do know there are other systems / regions where there are tons of belts, 1-2 stations, and no one ever goes there, right? maybe get out of Pator? or Rens? just a thought.
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.01.18 12:31:00 - [28] Originally by: Master Han I am sick of 2+ year old characters mining belts in high security space. I am a relatively new character and try to make ISK for skill books by mining. I think that after a certain period, the tax rate in NPC corps should go up to 20% or more. This would force players out into player corps and allow **ed off people like me to hire Mercs to slay those belt destroying scum. I mean they kick a player out of rookie channel after 30 days, so why not increase tax rate for players in NPC corps w/ more than 6 months of time in game. Many other players say I should do ratting or kill missions but I would rather conserve my time spent training to the area I am interested in: industry. My buddy and me just want to set up a small trade corp and I prefer to mine for my own minerals and not have to buy them from someone using a BOT or something to clear the belts in the beginner areas. maybe some of us cba with all the politics surrounding player corps maybe some of us just like to mission run, maybe some of us just want to play because its fun to do that after another long cr@p day at work? Forcing people to do something that they dont want to do is just a little bit facist dont you think? ~n00b of all trades~** ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.18 12:43:00 - [29] IMO npc corp should have a tax. Player corps have a tax, why not npc corp's? The average player corp has 10 percent tax...make npc corp have %15 tax just to give %5 incentive to joining player corp. Or join your own corp and have %0 tax. If someone wardecs you just drop out into a npc corp and pay your %15 for protection. When they stop declaring go back to your corp. There really is no downside. Paying %15 for concord protection is a bargain, its like having Mercenary Coalition at your beck and call 24 hours a day. In return I think maybe concord protection should be beefed up, maybe give them 1 second faster reaction time to respond to gank attempts. I think Eve should have a place for highsec players. Every universe has civilians. That's what highsec players are, the civilian population of Eve. Don't be hatin.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.18 13:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Master Han I am sick of 2+ year old characters mining belts in high security space. I am a relatively new character and try to make ISK for skill books by mining. I think that after a certain period, the tax rate in NPC corps should go up to 20% or more. This would force players out into player corps and allow **ed off people like me to hire Mercs to slay those belt destroying scum. I mean they kick a player out of rookie channel after 30 days, so why not increase tax rate for players in NPC corps w/ more than 6 months of time in game. Many other players say I should do ratting or kill missions but I would rather conserve my time spent training to the area I am interested in: industry. My buddy and me just want to set up a small trade corp and I prefer to mine for my own minerals and not have to buy them from someone using a BOT or something to clear the belts in the beginner areas. Well for a slight trade off, you can move down in security. 0.6 is ideal, 0.5 is better. But then again your going to have to have some combat skills. If you stay in 0.8+ then your going to find no belts. AFK minning for the win!! Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate** or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.19 01:01:00 - [31] Originally by: Mecinia Lua Any major nerf to NPC corporations would negatively impact the consumer base of the game. It would have a negative impact on the game in the future. As such efforts to nerf things are usually bad. Instead rather than imposing penalties on NPC corps you should look at providing more positives to player run corps so that they are more attractive. Unless ther is a free package of Quafe sent home after joining a new corp, I see little incentives that can be added. Corps have a lot of toys a single player ina NPC corp can't access (POS for starter).
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.01.19 03:54:00 - [32] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Originally by: Thor Xian If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. NPC corps should have taxes. what you propose is to lift concord protection from anyone who is in player corp, which would make wardec absolete.. why do so drastic change all of a sudden? Uh...not exactly. Currently, concord protects EVERYONE except if bribed. Even if bribed, concord protects both parties against those who they are not in war with. You propose the concord to only protect those who pay the tax. However you also propose only npc corp members to pay that tax. That would mean that concord will only protect npc corp members. Exactly. So do you propose as well, but forgot to mention, so that any player corp that wants ANY protection from concord, should pay the same tax to concord npc corps do? In this case it's ok, but in this case there is not much difference between npc corp and player corp in sense of taxes, which voids initial effort put in such change... So please think of smarter solution.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.01.19 04:59:00 - [33] Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Originally by: Thor Xian If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. NPC corps should have taxes. what you propose is to lift concord protection from anyone who is in player corp, which would make wardec absolete.. why do so drastic change all of a sudden? Uh...not exactly. Currently, concord protects EVERYONE except if bribed. Even if bribed, concord protects both parties against those who they are not in war with. You propose the concord to only protect those who pay the tax. However you also propose only npc corp members to pay that tax. That would mean that concord will only protect npc corp members. Exactly. So do you propose as well, but forgot to mention, so that any player corp that wants ANY protection from concord, should pay the same tax to concord npc corps do? In this case it's ok, but in this case there is not much difference between npc corp and player corp in sense of taxes, which voids initial effort put in such change... So please think of smarter solution. I said all that? I had no idea. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.01.19 05:39:00 - [34] Originally by: Thor Xian If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. NPC corps should have taxes. that'a what you said. here is what I say: player corps are protected by concord as well now, against those who they are not in war with. This is FACT, if you disagree then we are playing different games. But because Originally by: Thor Xian If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. , normal corps should also pay taxes, if they won't concord won't protect them at all so any high-sec becomes no-sec for everyone not paying taxes. that's it, if you can use basic logic you will get it, if not you're not worth talking to so soryy if I won't reply.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.01.19 06:15:00 - [35] Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Originally by: Thor Xian If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. NPC corps should have taxes. that'a what you said. here is what I say: player corps are protected by concord as well now, against those who they are not in war with. This is FACT, if you disagree then we are playing different games. But because Originally by: Thor Xian If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. , normal corps should also pay taxes, if they won't concord won't protect them at all so any high-sec becomes no-sec for everyone not paying taxes. that's it, if you can use basic logic you will get it, if not you're not worth talking to so soryy if I won't reply. Do the police stop protecting you just because you are visiting from a different country and don't pay income tax? Ignoring the obvious game mechanic design flaws (there are tons in Eve) surrounding corps and taxes of course. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Viliny	Posted - 2007.01.19 06:46:00 - [36] Testing mah forumpic here, also. Noob corps should be allowed to exist.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.19 07:09:00 - [37] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Originally by: Thor Xian If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. NPC corps should have taxes. that'a what you said. here is what I say: player corps are protected by concord as well now, against those who they are not in war with. This is FACT, if you disagree then we are playing different games. But because Originally by: Thor Xian If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. , normal corps should also pay taxes, if they won't concord won't protect them at all so any high-sec becomes no-sec for everyone not paying taxes. that's it, if you can use basic logic you will get it, if not you're not worth talking to so soryy if I won't reply. Do the police stop protecting you just because you are visiting from a different country and don't pay income tax? Ignoring the obvious game mechanic design flaws (there are tons in Eve) surrounding corps and taxes of course. If you make any economic activitiy in a foreign state you pay income tax there. You will always pay VAT tax when you buy something from a store (for some strange reason in the USA you can circunvent that buying from internet, but the buyer doing that is breacking the law). And usually there isn't an entry tax in a foreign state only because there are reciprocal treaties between states, where local police protect the foreign because in the people from that nation is protected in the nation of origin of the foreign. (it is a bit more complicated, semplifing) So unless the local alliance/corporation give people in NPC corporation protection in the territory they control in exchange of getting protection in high sec space, yes, they must pay CONCORD the same tax the other pay. If you came from a nation shooting on sight the people form (example) the USA, you can't enter the USA unless there are very special circumstances. Even if you are the most armless person alive.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.01.19 07:11:00 - [38] Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 19/01/2007 07:08:02 Originally by: Thor Xian Do the police stop protecting you just because you are visiting from a different country and don't pay income tax? In your country, can you pay police a tenner so that they wouldn't object you killing those guys from the other country you don't like? I mean legalised regular payment, not a bribe to certain cop who happened to witness a crime. Quote: Ignoring the obvious game mechanic design flaws (there are tons in Eve) surrounding corps and taxes of course. If there should be any npc corp tax, it shouldn't be worded as "for concord protection".
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.19 08:03:00 - [39] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Originally by: Thor Xian If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. NPC corps should have taxes. what you propose is to lift concord protection from anyone who is in player corp, which would make wardec absolete.. why do so drastic change all of a sudden? Uh...not exactly. actually, you got owned on that one buddy.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express	Posted - 2007.01.19 09:35:00 - [40] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Mecinia Lua Any major nerf to NPC corporations would negatively impact the consumer base of the game. It would have a negative impact on the game in the future. As such efforts to nerf things are usually bad. Instead rather than imposing penalties on NPC corps you should look at providing more positives to player run corps so that they are more attractive. Unless ther is a free package of Quafe sent home after joining a new corp, I see little incentives that can be added. Corps have a lot of toys a single player ina NPC corp can't access (POS for starter). There are ways. One way might be some additional corp leadership skills. These would work somewhat like the current leadership skills but would apply to those in the corp. It might be that they only apply when the CEO or Director is online, but it is something that you wouldn't have in a NPC corp. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.19 10:31:00 - [41] This rant is just silly. Go find another system! Empire is huge with plentiful stations.
The Slayer Caldari The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.01.19 10:33:00 - [42] As soon as you make it so that mickey mouse alliances like the freelancers cant dec every tom **** and harry corp going for cheap then sure, turf people out of NPC corps. Some people dont want to be at war with the freelancers all the time tho, and currently NPC corps seem to be about the only way to do that.
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.19 10:45:00 - [43] Originally by: The Slayer As soon as you make it so that mickey mouse alliances like the freelancers cant dec every tom **** and harry corp going for cheap then sure, turf people out of NPC corps. Some people dont want to be at war with the freelancers all the time tho, and currently NPC corps seem to be about the only way to do that. Think he means "The Privateers" I see nothing wrong with them, wardecs are a regular part of the game. Use a fast frigate like a probe to haul high quality goods to market. Use heavily tanked haulers with stabs to run minerals, or just use buy/sell orders to get those minerals shipped to you. This is a pvp game, using pvp tactics ALL the time should be second-nature, not just when you are raiding the domain of another alliance.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:57:00 - [44] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Mecinia Lua Any major nerf to NPC corporations would negatively impact the consumer base of the game. It would have a negative impact on the game in the future. As such efforts to nerf things are usually bad. Instead rather than imposing penalties on NPC corps you should look at providing more positives to player run corps so that they are more attractive. Unless ther is a free package of Quafe sent home after joining a new corp, I see little incentives that can be added. Corps have a lot of toys a single player ina NPC corp can't access (POS for starter). A single player does not want to be in a corp. And you dont need a corp to run a pos. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:01:00 - [45] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: The Slayer As soon as you make it so that mickey mouse alliances like the freelancers cant dec every tom ** and harry corp going for cheap then sure, turf people out of NPC corps. Some people dont want to be at war with the freelancers all the time tho, and currently NPC corps seem to be about the only way to do that. Think he means "The Privateers" I see nothing wrong with them, wardecs are a regular part of the game. Use a fast frigate like a probe to haul high quality goods to market. Use heavily tanked haulers with stabs to run minerals, or just use buy/sell orders to get those minerals shipped to you. This is a pvp game, using pvp tactics ALL the time should be second-nature, not just when you are raiding the domain of another alliance. And that is why 2+ year old characters can stay in a NPC corp. Eve is far more then a PvP game. It has somthing for all to play, not just get a kill board entry. When you figure that out you should have more fun. I hate gate camping, mission running, mining, and ratting in belts. But I am still here playing after three years. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate** or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:06:00 - [46] Originally by: Master Han I am sick of 2+ year old characters mining belts in high security space. You sit around in high security space belts watching miners? There's your problem right there. Go play your game. If you want people out of npc corps then invite them to yours. If yours too paranoid to do that withuot asking for login screens then its your own fault so many people are in newbie corps.
Hasek Raines	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:04:00 - [47] Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Master Han I am sick of 2+ year old characters mining belts in high security space. You sit around in high security space belts watching miners? There's your problem right there. Go play your game. If you want people out of npc corps then invite them to yours. If yours too paranoid to do that withuot asking for login screens then its your own fault so many people are in newbie corps. lol no kidding. You know what bothers me? Those Concord billboards because I sit in front of them and stare at them all day so they annoy me. Then I come onto these forums and whine about it. You also have to wonder how many of these Player Corp members who make these posts are being forced by their alliances to pay a "monthly fee" to stay in the system they are in and these guys come here because they are upset that a NPC corp member pays zero taxes. Either leave your corp or shut up imo. You knew what you were signing up for when you agreed to be a slave to BoB.
Malicia Skirj	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:51:00 - [48] Originally by: Master Han I am sick of 2+ year old characters mining belts in high security space. I am a relatively new character and try to make ISK for skill books by mining. I think that after a certain period, the tax rate in NPC corps should go up to 20% or more. This would force players out into player corps and allow ****ed off people like me to hire Mercs to slay those belt destroying scum. I mean they kick a player out of rookie channel after 30 days, so why not increase tax rate for players in NPC corps w/ more than 6 months of time in game. Many other players say I should do ratting or kill missions but I would rather conserve my time spent training to the area I am interested in: industry. My buddy and me just want to set up a small trade corp and I prefer to mine for my own minerals and not have to buy them from someone using a BOT or something to clear the belts in the beginner areas. 2+ year old characters are likely to have friends in merc corps (and possibly even supply them with minerals), so they may be able to hire a merc corp to slay your merc corp before it slays belt-destroying scum. Then you'd end up in the same position, minus the ISK you paid to hire a merc corp.
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:07:00 - [49] and on it goes - all this BS over a fear of loosing ships - it seems to drive the biggest of carebears nearest u pop a carebear today and feel better for it
superfuru	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:40:00 - [50] Lol even if u changed the tax for the players that had been in the npc corp for over 2 months or what ever they would just work around this by making a new char... or a buddy account or what ever.. when selling the ore :-P stop whining it works fine as it is today... there are other things ccp should focus on instead of this K^thx_bye
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:26:00 - [51] Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 19/01/2007 07:08:02 Originally by: Thor Xian Do the police stop protecting you just because you are visiting from a different country and don't pay income tax? In your country, can you pay police a tenner so that they wouldn't object you killing those guys from the other country you don't like? I mean legalised regular payment, not a bribe to certain cop who happened to witness a crime. Quote: Ignoring the obvious game mechanic design flaws (there are tons in Eve) surrounding corps and taxes of course. If there should be any npc corp tax, it shouldn't be worded as "for concord protection". I didn't say it was for CONCORD protection...police are only part of 'what you pay taxes for'. Without taxes why would there be CONCORD? ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:26:00 - [52] Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Originally by: Thor Xian If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. NPC corps should have taxes. what you propose is to lift concord protection from anyone who is in player corp, which would make wardec absolete.. why do so drastic change all of a sudden? Uh...not exactly. actually, you got owned on that one buddy. Ok ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:37:00 - [53] Meh. this needs stickying. Along with the hourly LOGOFFSKI!! thread... Brings nothing new to the discussion.. just more carebears defending their right to be ***s/completely safe. I think smart bombs should be allowed near stations again.. that would stop the traffic jams of badger 2's in high sec (omg i went to jita once upon a time.. it made me sick to see all that carebear loot floating around without a care.) Noob corps do need nerfing, the longer you're in the harder the nerf prefferably... So anyway, my main point, CCP please make a logoffski, nerf caldari and nerf noob corp thread sticky so that we may all *** and still keep the forums clean.
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:41:00 - [54] Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Originally by: Thor Xian If you want CONCORD protecting your ass, pay your taxes. NPC corps should have taxes. what you propose is to lift concord protection from anyone who is in player corp, which would make wardec absolete.. why do so drastic change all of a sudden? Uh...not exactly. Currently, concord protects EVERYONE except if bribed. Even if bribed, concord protects both parties against those who they are not in war with. You propose the concord to only protect those who pay the tax. However you also propose only npc corp members to pay that tax. That would mean that concord will only protect npc corp members. Exactly. So do you propose as well, but forgot to mention, so that any player corp that wants ANY protection from concord, should pay the same tax to concord npc corps do? In this case it's ok, but in this case there is not much difference between npc corp and player corp in sense of taxes, which voids initial effort put in such change... So please think of smarter solution. You sir... complete asshat. I am perfectly happy for my corp/alliance to pay taxes in high sec... you know why? because we're not in high sec. We already get taxed whenever we sell/refine/repair/do anything in high sec.... so nerf away dude... do whatever you want to make it even... its going to hurt you and your carebearishness whatever it is and get people the hell out of high sec... (into 0.0 i would hope.. low sec is a dirty place filled with nasty and unclean people) Have you tried WoW? It might be just the ticket.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:48:00 - [55] Originally by: Roshan longshot Originally by: Venkul Mul Unless there is a free package of Quafe sent home after joining a new corp, I see little incentives that can be added. Corps have a lot of toys a single player in a NPC corp can't access (POS for starter). A single player does not want to be in a corp. And you dont need a corp to run a pos. From Knowledgebase: Setting up the Control Tower With any or all of the above items in your cargohold, find a moon in low security space and warp to it. Right-click the Control Tower in your cargohold and select "launch for corp" . Unless sometime is changed, it is not possible to launch for corp in a NPC corporation (and the results if it was possible would be ). So no POS for single players, i.e. players ina NPC corp.
Master Han Order of Endruring Marshalls	Posted - 2007.01.21 05:09:00 - [56] Quote: Unless ther is a free package of Quafe sent home after joining a new corp, I see little incentives that can be added. Corps have a lot of toys a single player ina NPC corp can't access (POS for starter). There are ways. One way might be some additional corp leadership skills. These would work somewhat like the current leadership skills but would apply to those in the corp. It might be that they only apply when the CEO or Director is online, but it is something that you wouldn't have in a NPC corp. I like this idea alot! There are fleet leadership bonuses, why not coro leadership bonuses? Mining Director: +1%/lvl to mining laser, strip miner, ice harvestor yields Assault Director: +1%/lvl to all turrect damage Defense Director: +1%/lvl to armor and shield hp Trade Director: Something to do with trade (/me still sells at even -90% of average) Industry Dirctor: -%1/lvl to build and research times Or if not a skill, then when corporation is made, the CEO can determine a bonus for all corp members that is unchangeable. P.S. Maybe 20% was a little high. 10% is fine. I have moved to .5 space to mine, thanks for the info!
Rockmonkey Zwei	Posted - 2007.01.21 05:28:00 - [57] Originally by: Master Han I am sick of 2+ year old characters mining belts in high security space. I am a relatively new character and try to make ISK for skill books by mining. I think that after a certain period, the tax rate in NPC corps should go up to 20% or more. This would force players out into player corps and allow ****ed off people like me to hire Mercs to slay those belt destroying scum. Tax rate won't get the miners you hate out of NPC corps. Mining isn't taxed, so you could increase the rate to 100% and they wouldn't care.
Cute SpyGirl	Posted - 2007.01.21 07:51:00 - [58] Since most of you PvPers have been flaming us (carebearers) in forum. My anwser to you is too bad. If you want a solution, go read my post on "Fundamental Flaws of EvE solved." You really don't have a choice, people will play their own style. -Cute
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.01.21 08:00:00 - [59] Who in Eve doesn't PvP? ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services

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