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Avataris
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:29:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Avataris on 17/01/2007 22:27:19
There has been an incredible amount of complaining on the forums recently about nanofit battleships and how either nano's or the forever maligned nosferatu need to be nerfed.
I would like to raise my lonely voice and say 'NO! please do not nerf either of these wonderful wonderful things'
I do not and never have flown a nanofit battleship, but I know this: The last few weeks there have been pilots from a rival alliance zooming around our home systems in nanofit dominix's. They have killed many ships.
The result of this has been that people have pulled together, excited by this new challenge and determined to overcome it. Previously hostiles would only move around in gangs and blobs, but here was a fast and exciting new enemy.
Each nanofit battleship we kill (usually utilising a small gang of disposable tech 1 frigs with webs and scrams, and 1 or 2 battleships as damage dealers) feels like a real victory, because it requires teamwork, perseverance, and planning.
At the same time the nanofit creates an opportunity for the admirable solo-ganker to continue to exist. While I love the teamplay element of Eve, I believe it is neccesary for the solo player/pirate to remain a viable option. With the abolition of WCS it is pure suicide to move around 0.0 in a battleship with anything less than at least 1 scout. Hit a single bubblecamp and it's curtains.
The nanofit battleship has revived the 0.0 experience. It has breathed life into an otherwise often predictable and unoriginal combat experience. It has strengthened team bonds, and created new 'super-baddies' who's names are whispered with a sense of fear and apprehension.
Why people insist on crushing the life out of such a great and varied gaming experience is beyond me. But please, please, please, stop it.
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Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:30:00 -
[2]
+ 1,000,000
CCP leave things the way they are, unpredictable. For the love of the game don't turn all combat into lock --> F1-F8.
CFW (Certified Forum Warrior)
I kill people ingame too. |
Tisanta
Amarr
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:33:00 -
[3]
ccp please double the speed of all ships.
PLEASE! i know its like a huge thing nd all but jesus watching ur ultra huge ships doing 4k/ps isnt enuff.. i want more (im not being sarcastic btw)
i want frigs with base 600mps, cruisers 500mps, bs 400mps!
GIMME!
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Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Vando
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:42:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Vando on 17/01/2007 22:40:21
Or they could just recode the speed display to show double the value and halve all the distances between objects 
Edit: no wait! Just leave all the objects and change the distance display readout as well! GENIUS! 
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Tisanta
Amarr
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:43:00 -
[5]
thats just stupid.. double the speeds damn it!
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Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
kisu tei
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:44:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Tisanta
ccp please double the speed of all ships.
PLEASE! i know its like a huge thing nd all but jesus watching ur ultra huge ships doing 4k/ps isnt enuff.. i want more (im not being sarcastic btw)
i want frigs with base 600mps, cruisers 500mps, bs 400mps!
GIMME!
/signed.
but make BS 200 and cruisers 250
increase tracking of all guns
slow down missiles so oversized missiles cant hit undersized targets but increase damage output
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Tryphid
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:46:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Tryphid on 17/01/2007 22:44:08
'slow down missiles so oversized missiles cant hit undersized targets but increase damage output'
Most ceptors and fast frigs can already outrun cruise/torps indefinitly, so this is hardly an issue.
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Tomsudy
Minmatar
BloodThirsters Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:50:00 -
[8]
Yeah i agree its amazing to see that speed is now having an effect on game play in a big way.
Solo pvp has definately benefitted, hasnt been this great since dual mwd tbh
________________________________________
THTA |
Byzan Zwyth
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:54:00 -
[9]
I think it's cool but a little on the uber side of balance. for starters I think nanoed ships should get nailed by web more. It seems like a nanoed BS has an easy time getting out of a web as long as it has speed to begin with because it takes so long to slow down.
nanoed ships should slow down faster than normal ships,
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Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc? |
Arian Snow
The Nest
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.17 22:55:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Arian Snow on 17/01/2007 22:51:36
Lovely well put post, The Eve community i richer with people such as you! Cheers mate.
Still it does not change the fact that BS's shoudn't go faster than an intercepter... silly silly silly
I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all! |
j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.17 23:23:00 -
[11]
Edited by: j0sephine on 17/01/2007 23:21:58
"The nanofit battleship has revived the 0.0 experience. It has breathed life into an otherwise often predictable and unoriginal combat experience. It has strengthened team bonds, and created new 'super-baddies' who's names are whispered with a sense of fear and apprehension.
Why people insist on crushing the life out of such a great and varied gaming experience is beyond me."
Because people already 'been there, seen that' when the earlier iterations of this particular tactics kicked about in EVE. And the ideal of "ultimate single super-baddy ganker" that gets you at the moment starry eyed because you actually manage to kill one of them every now and then which makes the effort worth it... is just early phase that turns quickly into ugly reality of 5+ such gankers operating in gangs that your 'small gang of frigates and 1-2 battleships' stands no chance against, after the possibility of losing ship while flying solo becomes too large for the nano pilots. And from there it only goes downward to what we have already and what you dislike -- hostiles moving around in gangs and blobs. Except it's much harder to catch gangs and blobs.
The nano-ships do highlight potential problem that's clash between game mechanics which render numbers the (nearly) ultimate strength, and people desire to be winners even against the overwhelming odds... but they're not answer to this problem in the long run :|
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Kel GalInt
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Posted - 2007.01.17 23:36:00 -
[12]
I'd like to see a modification to the webber mods.
Have three different size webs. frig/destroyer, cruiser/bc, and BS sized webs.
Each web size class has different range and grid requirements.
It wouldn't be the first mid slot item with different versions for different sized ships.
The officer webs in game are already BS-sized. It wouldn't be difficult to introduce medium and large size webs.
small webs 10km, medium webs 15 or 20, large webs 20 or 25.
The nano-BS will be in range of the larger webs long enough to sufficiently slow their mass. Officer webs still retain value in the 30+km range.
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Avataris
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Posted - 2007.01.17 23:45:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kel GalInt
I'd like to see a modification to the webber mods.
Have three different size webs. frig/destroyer, cruiser/bc, and BS sized webs.
Each web size class has different range and grid requirements.
It wouldn't be the first mid slot item with different versions for different sized ships.
The officer webs in game are already BS-sized. It wouldn't be difficult to introduce medium and large size webs.
small webs 10km, medium webs 15 or 20, large webs 20 or 25.
The nano-BS will be in range of the larger webs long enough to sufficiently slow their mass. Officer webs still retain value in the 30+km range.
I hope you brought your flameproof suit :)
Every person who has ever complained that Heavy nos prevents tackling interceptors from being effective against battleships is gonna jump on you for suggesting BS webbers should outrange frigate webbers.
Duck and Cover!
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Kel GalInt
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Posted - 2007.01.17 23:58:00 -
[14]
also make them % hit/effective based as was suggested on a NOS thread.
Low sig target = less effective.
Heavy 75% web @ 20km reduces a 40m sig radius ship by only 15 or 20% or somesuch.
Would require more code changes, but is balanced.
Intys would still be able to get in range to tackle.
Should probably also be a fitting restriction also. 1 web per ship, balances it with the AB/MWD speed increasing mod.
I hope you brought your flameproof suit :)
Every person who has ever complained that Heavy nos prevents tackling interceptors from being effective against battleships is gonna jump on you for suggesting BS webbers should outrange frigate webbers.
Duck and Cover!
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2007.01.18 00:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 17/01/2007 23:21:58
"The nanofit battleship has revived the 0.0 experience. It has breathed life into an otherwise often predictable and unoriginal combat experience. It has strengthened team bonds, and created new 'super-baddies' who's names are whispered with a sense of fear and apprehension.
Why people insist on crushing the life out of such a great and varied gaming experience is beyond me."
Because people already 'been there, seen that' when the earlier iterations of this particular tactics kicked about in EVE. And the ideal of "ultimate single super-baddy ganker" that gets you at the moment starry eyed because you actually manage to kill one of them every now and then which makes the effort worth it... is just early phase that turns quickly into ugly reality of 5+ such gankers operating in gangs that your 'small gang of frigates and 1-2 battleships' stands no chance against, after the possibility of losing ship while flying solo becomes too large for the nano pilots. And from there it only goes downward to what we have already and what you dislike -- hostiles moving around in gangs and blobs. Except it's much harder to catch gangs and blobs.
The nano-ships do highlight potential problem that's clash between game mechanics which render numbers the (nearly) ultimate strength, and people desire to be winners even against the overwhelming odds... but they're not answer to this problem in the long run :|
totally agree... but imo the problem is not by the nanoship themselves, but how is easy, using inertia stabs and mwd rigs, to build extremely effective and cheap nanoships...
if a guy use a 2bil implant and and extremize his fitting to reach 4-5k speed is ok to me...
instead it is a problem if everyone with 2-3 intertia and a rig or 2 can reach such speed.
nanoships existed even before kali, imo they where viable but not overpowered... was possible to damage them with missiles and eventually drones, was even possible to track them with a bit of "luck"... now the speed you reach (with all ships, not just bs) is so high that it becomes a sort of godmode
i will like to see nanoship put back as they where before kali, viable and requiring some dedication to be effective, i will not like to see a "blind" nerf that will make all nanoships total crap.
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Valea Silpha
Death Monkey's With Knives
O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.01.18 00:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 17/01/2007 23:21:58
"The nanofit battleship has revived the 0.0 experience. It has breathed life into an otherwise often predictable and unoriginal combat experience. It has strengthened team bonds, and created new 'super-baddies' who's names are whispered with a sense of fear and apprehension.
Why people insist on crushing the life out of such a great and varied gaming experience is beyond me."
Because people already 'been there, seen that' when the earlier iterations of this particular tactics kicked about in EVE. And the ideal of "ultimate single super-baddy ganker" that gets you at the moment starry eyed because you actually manage to kill one of them every now and then which makes the effort worth it... is just early phase that turns quickly into ugly reality of 5+ such gankers operating in gangs that your 'small gang of frigates and 1-2 battleships' stands no chance against, after the possibility of losing ship while flying solo becomes too large for the nano pilots. And from there it only goes downward to what we have already and what you dislike -- hostiles moving around in gangs and blobs. Except it's much harder to catch gangs and blobs.
The nano-ships do highlight potential problem that's clash between game mechanics which render numbers the (nearly) ultimate strength, and people desire to be winners even against the overwhelming odds... but they're not answer to this problem in the long run :|
This is true. Its great to see some solo pvp happening, but once a countermeasure is developed it will go back to wherever it was before hand.
Oh and also, is it just me or does 1 bs needing 4 ships (from the OPs example) to take it out seem a little unbalanced. Perhaps it speaks for the skill of those pilots flying the nanoships, but if its an indication of the wider issues, it would mean that nanoships are in fact the bane of solo PvP becuase they would have nothing to fear from any one ship they could ever come up against.
<Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing
<Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head |
OrangeAfroMan
Minmatar
Suffoco Noctis
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Posted - 2007.01.18 06:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Avataris
Edited by: Avataris on 17/01/2007 22:27:19
There has been an incredible amount of complaining on the forums recently about nanofit battleships and how either nano's or the forever maligned nosferatu need to be nerfed.
I would like to raise my lonely voice and say 'NO! please do not nerf either of these wonderful wonderful things'
I do not and never have flown a nanofit battleship, but I know this: The last few weeks there have been pilots from a rival alliance zooming around our home systems in nanofit dominix's. They have killed many ships.
The result of this has been that people have pulled together, excited by this new challenge and determined to overcome it. Previously hostiles would only move around in gangs and blobs, but here was a fast and exciting new enemy.
Each nanofit battleship we kill (usually utilising a small gang of disposable tech 1 frigs with webs and scrams, and 1 or 2 battleships as damage dealers) feels like a real victory, because it requires teamwork, perseverance, and planning.
At the same time the nanofit creates an opportunity for the admirable solo-ganker to continue to exist. While I love the teamplay element of Eve, I believe it is neccesary for the solo player/pirate to remain a viable option. With the abolition of WCS it is pure suicide to move around 0.0 in a battleship with anything less than at least 1 scout. Hit a single bubblecamp and it's curtains.
The nanofit battleship has revived the 0.0 experience. It has breathed life into an otherwise often predictable and unoriginal combat experience. It has strengthened team bonds, and created new 'super-baddies' who's names are whispered with a sense of fear and apprehension.
Why people insist on crushing the life out of such a great and varied gaming experience is beyond me. But please, please, please, stop it.
You know what, I actually kindof agree.
Yay for the 1 in 1,000,000 intelligent posts on EvE-O \o/
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Mindblank
StarLight Inc.
Prismatic Refraction
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Posted - 2007.01.18 06:12:00 -
[18]
Nano pilots kill their crew... just imagine a BS with thousands of crew zipping about like an interceptor. All the people in the ship will be squished! No responsible captain would like to have that on their conscience.
Seriously speaking though.. Josephine is right. We've seen the ugly face of unintended speed popping up previously with oversized afterburners and dual MWD ravens. Those kind of ships aren't meant to behave like that as it unbalances gameplay and consequently were put to rest by the devs.
R.I.P
-= Currently recruiting Swedish players =-
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J Valkor
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Posted - 2007.01.18 06:34:00 -
[19]
Edited by: J Valkor on 18/01/2007 06:31:28
Wait... you find it acceptable that to kill 1 BS takes a small gang? With 1 or 2 BS as support?
Heaven help you when the nanoships realize they can group up.
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OrangeAfroMan
Minmatar
Suffoco Noctis
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Posted - 2007.01.18 07:26:00 -
[20]
Originally by: J Valkor
Edited by: J Valkor on 18/01/2007 06:31:28
Wait... you find it acceptable that to kill 1 BS takes a small gang? With 1 or 2 BS as support?
Heaven help you when the nanoships realize they can group up.
They really can't group up though - if one of them happens to bump the other it could easily mean death by webbing.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.18 08:14:00 -
[21]
Why are people even discussing this? Its obviously stupid that cruisers and battleships can go faster then decent interceptors. Why the heck do you think they nerfed dual MWD fits? This is the same problem. People are now stacking speed rigs and nanos instead of MWDs. Same problem, different modules. Get rid of this crap.
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Larkonis Trassler
Beyond Divinity Inc
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.18 09:09:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 18/01/2007 09:06:43
Originally by: J Valkor
Edited by: J Valkor on 18/01/2007 06:31:28
Wait... you find it acceptable that to kill 1 BS takes a small gang? With 1 or 2 BS as support?
Heaven help you when the nanoships realize they can group up.
I've seen plenty of videos with pilots of faction fit 'conventional' BS taking on gangs solo and coming out top. Why when a nanophoon does it is an exploit?
Please get real.
And yes... to get decent speed out of a nano BS you WILL need rigs
You WILL need Snakes.
You WILL need a faction MWD.
It comes out as an expensive little venture and they do die all to easily if you screw your thinking head on.
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Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler |
Copine Callmeknau
The Splinter Syndicate
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.18 09:49:00 -
[23]
I love nanoships, including BS.
They are a lot of fun to fight, much better than the old warp in snipe fleet, or warp in support fleet tactics.
Please don't nerf then CCP, they bring variety and unpredictibility into the game.
-----
Originally by:
wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you where tuxford.
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shakaZ XIV
Caldari
True Salvation
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Posted - 2007.01.18 10:12:00 -
[24]
Quote:
And yes... to get decent speed out of a nano BS you WILL need rigs
You WILL need Snakes.
You WILL need a faction MWD.
Not at all, a bs fitted with tech2 mwd + named nanos and inertial stabilizers goes 2500 or so, that's fast enough to not get hit by most things.
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twit brent
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.18 10:18:00 -
[25]
Nano ships are the best. They can be tricky to catch but once caught they go down fast.
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Pirates of Destruction Union
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Posted - 2007.01.18 10:26:00 -
[26]
Battleships should not be able to move faster then smaller ships - even the smallest intercepter without serious problems. As it stands, nano-ships are taking advantage of certain ship characteristics. Nos on the highs, drones/some gun for damage and a bunch of nano/Istabs in the lows. So that limits the nano fevor to Gallente (drones) or Minmatar (proj. uses no cap) ships.
So sure, keep the nano bit, but they should fold a lot faster. Much like the stab changes, nanoships should have someting hurting them - making them great for 1v1/2v1 but unable to sustain the fight for long periods.
What gets me is that they outrun an interceptor on approach (which goes against interceptor doctrine to keep your transversal up) and if that was not enough, there is the H.nos to stop them cold. Interceptors should remain the fastest ship, not a battleship - no matter how it is fitted.
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Larkonis Trassler
Beyond Divinity Inc
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.18 10:27:00 -
[27]
Originally by: shakaZ XIV
Quote:
And yes... to get decent speed out of a nano BS you WILL need rigs
You WILL need Snakes.
You WILL need a faction MWD.
Not at all, a bs fitted with tech2 mwd + named nanos and inertial stabilizers goes 2500 or so, that's fast enough to not get hit by most things.
You don't fight many nanoships do you? Go and fight some of these noob fitted nanobs then come back pls.
It will still be pwned by:
Cruise Missiles and below.
Large ACs
In fact any large gunz except maybe blasters as long as you fit a tracking mod or two.
Medium ACs and Arties
Medium Rails
Medium Beams
Light LR guns
Light and maybe Medium drones
Also at those orbit speeds web drones=win.
Cap requirements on T2 MWD are sickening so he won't be able to hang around for long if your tank is good. 1 or 2 heavy nos and he'll be crippled.
Come back and whine about these inferior setups once you've killed a few instead of soiling your breeches every time you see a BS do 2000m/s.
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Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.18 10:31:00 -
[28]
Originally by: shakaZ XIV
Quote:
And yes... to get decent speed out of a nano BS you WILL need rigs
You WILL need Snakes.
You WILL need a faction MWD.
Not at all, a bs fitted with tech2 mwd + named nanos and inertial stabilizers goes 2500 or so, that's fast enough to not get hit by most things.
agianst guns, pure speed form an MWD helps nothing since your signature goes up same ammount. A nanoship using an AB and moving at 500ms woudl be FAR more effective on avoiding turrts. But a nanoship with MWD is easy pick for good trascking turrets. As i said so many times.. an autopest can eat alive any nanophoon
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Larkonis Trassler
Beyond Divinity Inc
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.18 10:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky
So sure, keep the nano bit, but they should fold a lot faster. Much like the stab changes, nanoships should have someting hurting them - making them great for 1v1/2v1 but unable to sustain the fight for long periods.
What you mean like the need for cap to run their MWD? 4 heavy nos isn't enough to sustain that brute. You need a cap booster. And what do they need? CHARGES! So a consumable item that is required to operate your setup at maximal efficiency.
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky
What gets me is that they outrun an interceptor on approach (which goes against interceptor doctrine to keep your transversal up) and if that was not enough, there is the H.nos to stop them cold. Interceptors should remain the fastest ship, not a battleship - no matter how it is fitted.
Yawn. An Inty pilot can spend a quarter of what a phoon pilot spends and end up twice as fast. Next point please.
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Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler |
Zeiferon
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.01.18 11:06:00 -
[30]
Tbh.....I suspect that anybody that is complaining about nanoships never had to fight against Cavalry Ravens. Now those were a *****.
Nanoships are GOOD, yes, but they're not unbeatable, even 1v1. Use your imagainations people....the anser so far isn't on the forums ;)
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