If another player buys the stolen character in good faith and has played with them for a significant period of time (potentially equalling the time the original player had it for) then you really have a problem.

If the character was stolen and used by the theif, or the assets stripped or whatever then I think the character should be returned and compensation given (isk out of thin air if need be). Likewise, if the character has barely been used or has only just been sold to a player in good faith then it should be returned.

Where the character has been in the hands of a legit player for a long time... I'd be tempted to say that the returning player should have a character conjured from space dust (or have the old character returned and the newer player recieves isk enough to cover: the isk spent originally, isk enough to purchase a new character of equal SP - so, their original purchase price + isk = SP trained since purchase, and of course, isk to cover anything lost in the transfer).

With many players returning to Eve because of the so called change of direction Crucible represents, we may find that this hypothetical scenario could occur quite a few times, where old accounts are found to have been hacked or misused. Should CCPs response to any potential petitions look favorably upon a returning playerbase, or should they wash their hands of their EULA obligations due to the timeframe involved.

My question to the Eve community is this. Was this a valid and reasonable response from CCP.

Absolutely, it was valid and reasonable. CCP can't spend all of their time digging through six-month old database entries.

(And I sincerely don't like nitpicking grammar, but it's 'should have' (to indicate a past occurance), not 'should of' (which indicates ownership). :) )

While I was using the hypothetical petition as a setting, my main query is as to whether or not there should be a statute of limitations upon the EULA. If there is a firm confirmation or at least suspicion of account insecurity and resulting loss, is there a time limit where those acts are no longer applicable to action under the EULA?

There should not be a statute of limitations on the EULA. You break it, you get caught and it is proven; you deal with the consequences. No matter how long it takes.

Are you being intentionally dense for the sake of discussion?

As I explained this has nothing to do with the amount of time elapsed nor does it concern effort to dig through data bases.

There are 2 innocent parties - one must accept the damage. CCP is going to side with the one who did not screw up and allow their account to be hacked.

There is only one party that is somewhat innocent- the original player whose account was hacked. The person currently holding the char in question could well be just another alt of the hacker/ thief. This would be especially true if the transfer occurred through a private sale, as in this, hypothetical, example

The original player could be lying to get a high skill point character they knowingly sold back after a rage quit. Are they really innocent?

Hypothetically speaking.

Im sure there are/were other ways to verify account securities, such as IP addresses, credit card details, history of payments, nature of character transfers etc etc

Hypothetically you mean.

There is only one party that is somewhat innocent- the original player whose account was hacked. The person currently holding the char in question could well be just another alt of the hacker/ thief. This would be especially true if the transfer occurred through a private sale, as in this, hypothetical, example

Not hypothetically, no GÇö realistically.

Realistically, there is one party that undoubtably has made an error: the supposed previous owner. It is possible (but far from certain) that the current owner is also at fault, but of the two, he's the one who's a priori the most innocent. So it is indeed right that CCP doesn't side with the party that unquestionably screwed up.

If someone carjacks your locked vehicle from a carpark, have you made an error? You took reasonable care to lock the vehicle. You did not leave your keys in the ignition. You did not hand the thief your keys. He saw you leave and took his opportunity.

If he was then to say, sell the car to a friend, that friend may be innocent of the crime itself (even if he had knowledge of it) but he would not retain ownership rights of it, particularly if it was a private sale/ transfer- as per the hypothetical.

I appreciate your point of view, but I believe your argument is mute in this circumstance.

9. HACKING & ACCOUNT TRANSFERS

Hacking is any unauthorized access to another person's account, by illegal means or not.

You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your password and for any damage, harm, lost or deleted characters, etc. resulting from your disclosure, or allowing the disclosure, of any password, or from use by any person of your password.

1. If your account is accessed by another player and assets are stolen or transferred to other players, we will investigate and items that we are able to track down will be moved back to the rightful owner.
2. Any ISK stolen from the account may be transferred back to the rightful owner on a case-by-case basis.
3. Any assets sold to another player will not be returned to the original owner; however, any ISK gained from the sale may be transferred to the original owner of the items instead on a case-by-case basis.
4. Reprocessed assets cannot be restored to prior status.
5. If someone gained access to your account as a result of your use of a third party program or other violation of our EULA/TOS, all requests for reimbursement will be null and void.

I found this:



I suspect a character will be seen as an "Asset" under point 3?

Protip: dont let your account lapse. Continue to pay for your account even if you will not be logging in. Its $15 bucks man! Thats 2 lattes and the cheap meal at McDonalds per month.

You are trying to claim protection under the EULA, but you were not a paying customer when this alleged issue happened. You cannot claim EULA protection from a company you are not paying.

Try letting your car insurance lapse a couple months, then get in a wreck. See how much consumer protection you get then.

Id see point 1 as more valid here, but thanks for the info. Can a character itself be defined as an asset? Thats a whole other can of worms considering the char market. Personally I dont think Characters themselves were the intended meaning of asset in point 3. I think it was speaking more along the lines of the assets that characters hold, ships, mods, pos isk etc