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Sahnsa
Tri-gun
3
   |
Posted - 2011.04.07 17:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Reposted from HERE
Sahnsa wrote:
Okay, so I've gotten my first taste of lowsec logistics today, and the aggression mechanics are...less than kind.
The fact that every time you resume cap transfer with your partner, you refresh your GCC means that you either have to take constant gate fire or spend 15 minutes waiting out your aggression every time you kill someone.
Is there a good reason that remote assistance doesn't just give you whatever timer is currently left on your target, rather than giving you a full 15 minutes? If they did it that way, logistics would only be penalized for at most 15 minutes after combat occurred instead of for the rest of the op.
I'm strongly considering moving to 0.0 to get away from the aggression crap. Again, is there a good reason for this?
Okay, so apparently it's just been this way ever since people used logis to tank CONCORD. I'm still confused though -- why not just give the logistics pilot whatever timer is left over instead of giving them a whole new timer? |
Super Chair
Inglorious-Basterds
2
|
Posted - 2011.04.07 17:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Its just like any other GCC though. If you agress someone while GCC even if they are a valid target (such as a wardec target or a corpmate) your GCC resets. Why should it be any different for logies? |
Sahnsa
Tri-gun
3
|
Posted - 2011.04.07 18:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yes, but there is the not insignificant fact that Guardians kind of have to cap transfer to maintain each other's tank. You don't get an aggression mechanic for turning on your local rep, so why should Guardians and Basilisks be unfairly punished?
Really, look at any lowsec roam. The DPS gets attacked for 15 minutes after they attack someone -- the Logis have to tank gate guns for the rest of the night, because they need to renew their cap transfer after each jump. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.04.07 18:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
You could just refrain from pirating you know, there is no rule saying that everything that comes through must be shot.
GCC logistics just means that you have to keep transfers silent until needed, the null practise of establishing chains at first opportunity is not always the best course. |
Sahnsa
Tri-gun
3
|
Posted - 2011.04.07 19:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yes, but if you do that, then everybody dies to gate gun fire. So that's not really an option.  |
Noisrevbus
0
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Posted - 2011.04.07 19:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
The GCC mechanics, like alot of other things in lowsec, are horrible leftovers from EVE infancy.
They are in part responsible for the low popularity of lowsec, due to being somewhat incomprehensible, irregular, cumbersome and more restrictive than encouraging.
For example, you know that as soon as your are flashy you will apply GCC to any friendly remoting anything onto you regardless of combat situation, standings or your friend's security status.
So let's assume there are two Guardians, one being [-5] and the other [+5], the non-flashy Guardian will get hit by GCC by starting the chain even if none of them have agressed anything.
It's like the opposite of empire . |
VIP Ares
BALKAN EXPRESS
HUN Reloaded
0
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Posted - 2011.04.07 21:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mechanic is pretty simple indeed. If you help someone with GCC or outlaw - you will gain GCC.
Now debating is it fair or not? I think its ok. |
Sahnsa
Tri-gun
3
|
Posted - 2011.04.07 23:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
I don't have a problem with getting a GCC when I help someone who's GCC'd. That's perfectly reasonable, and it makes sense.
I have a problem with the fact that my GCC lasts longer than theirs does -- if I rep someone with a minute left, I shouldn't have to deal with it for 15 minutes -- or, indeed, for the rest of the op (since that's how long my cap partner and I are going to be trading it back and forth). |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
15
|
Posted - 2011.04.07 23:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'd settle for not getting a GCC unless the person I was repping had one. Repping someone who's merely an outlaw and gaining a GCC is just annoying.
-Liang |
Headlong
Katzbalger Industries
0
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Posted - 2011.04.08 09:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
The problem of this is also that it makes it nearly impossible to field a single logistic since it will keep getting shot at by gateguns. Even if you fit a local tank you will burn through your capsticks pretty quickly. Otoh while this is a bit annoying its hardly gamebreaking. Even the fact that it makes the logis a bit easier to break in smaller fights if they have prior GCC doesn't hurt that much since they're still very potent force multiplyer. |
Mordikye
Beyond The Gates
1
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Posted - 2011.04.08 11:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Destroy the gate guns. |
Kayleigh Lothian
Obsidian Inc.
0
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Posted - 2011.04.08 13:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sahnsa wrote:I don't have a problem with getting a GCC when I help someone who's GCC'd. That's perfectly reasonable, and it makes sense.
I have a problem with the fact that my GCC lasts longer than theirs does -- if I rep someone with a minute left, I shouldn't have to deal with it for 15 minutes -- or, indeed, for the rest of the op (since that's how long my cap partner and I are going to be trading it back and forth).
No, it lasts 15 minutes from your lates infriction.
The guy doing the killing, and getting the no-jump_no-dock aggro, stops his criminal act when he stops shooting. You stop yours when you stop repping a GCC.
I do not understand why you should have different standards.
You do know that most people need to leave the gate after a fight to cool the GCC down?
|
Othran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2011.04.08 16:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kayleigh Lothian wrote:You do know that most people need to leave the gate after a fight to cool the GCC down?
That's not GCC, that's faction aggro.
Timers on gate/station guns are not on the GCC timer, they're on a faction timer which is why people keep dying when they think GCC has run out.
I can't honestly see the problem - I appreciate Guardians don't run cap stable but its not as if you have to keep cap transferring for that long. Get off the grid when its quiet, cap up and align back - you shouldn't be sitting on the gate anyway. Gate guns cycle and if everyone is going GCC then your partner ought to be able to keep you up during the fight (put drones on each other as default).
The problem is that people don't appreciate there are multiple 15 minute timers running, all or any of which CAN get renewed with 1 sec left on the old timer.
The problem with all the "GCC shouldn't do this" posts is that when it did, it got abused to hell and back  and anyone who can't think of some "fun" with some of the suggestions here needs to think harder  |
Othran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2011.04.08 16:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I'd settle for not getting a GCC unless the person I was repping had one. Repping someone who's merely an outlaw and gaining a GCC is just annoying.
-Liang
Yes but it has been somewhat abused in the past when it didn't work that way. The problem is there's no REAL difference between high-sec and low-sec in terms of mechanics - obviously concord ganks in high-sec and there's customs/faction navy etc but there's no change other than that.
Rep someone that is GCC and do it out of sight of faction npc in low sec then that shouldn't attract the same GCC penalty. Do it in sight of npc entity then yeah it gets GCC. Same as it is with faction aggro.
In theory a simple enough change. In practice who knows.
tl;dr concord/navies know all in high-sec, low-sec only if you do it in front of them would be best way. |
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