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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29482
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Posted - 2015.12.31 23:20:34 -
[61] - Quote
lol
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7040
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Posted - 2016.01.01 08:14:07 -
[62] - Quote
Nafensoriel wrote:Now lets break down the problem with this entire argument and what many people have tried to explain to you. You have zero idea how the server side is built. You have assumptions and devblogs where things have been publicly described but at base you know exactly zero. Why do you know zero? Because the Tranquility server is a custom built proprietary piece of hardware run by people who have been using it exclusively and tailoring every tiny scrap of physical and software assets for over a decade. You attempting to claim a magic pill that that team hasnt already thought of is on the order of a man looking at a tank and telling someone it needs a new transmission to go faster without ever having physically touched said tank. Well no, between dev blogs and fanfest, there's a lot of knowledge floating around about the servers and having spoken to the devs at fanfest they are aware themselves that threading the server would solve a lot of problems. It's not that they haven't thought of it, they just don't want to dedicate the time it takes to rewrite it. As for you're idea of looking at a tank, it's more like looking at a tank, seeing it has no tracks and suggesting they stick some tracks on it if they want to get anywhere. We know that they have a CPU bottleneck, we also know that SOL is single threaded, we also know that they are overclocking a beast of a CPU way beyond what it should be at to squeeze the most performance out of it. Unless there's massive improvements in CPU speed on their way the best way to squeeze out more processing power is by going sideway.
Nafensoriel wrote:To further support your lack of knowledge(and well everyones really) consider that CCP is notoriously data crazy. They collect every bit that isnt nailed down and then dig in the sofa for more. Then they spend weeks looking at it and breaking down every aspect of it in relation to that custom designed proprietary hardware and software that is Tranquility. Also You cant claim to know how their system works by past experience. Nothing exists like tranquility. Its a one off. No one but the crazy nutballs(and we love ya) at CCP has had the raw testicular fortitude to actually build a super computer for a video game. True, but data collection should have very little impact on the server, and would also be an absolutely ideal use of multithreading since there's no reason whatsoever that aggregating and sending off data to a database needs to be done in the same thread as combat calcs. Also, you say "proprietary hardware and software" as if that means something. Most development companies will be running their own builds of hardware and software, and most large scale MMOS will run what CCP run. A lot exists like tranquillity actually. A long time ago what they had was pretty unique, but that hasn't been true for many years now. The only thing that makes theirs different is their aforementioned lack of process distribution leading to their strange need to try to set fire to their CPUs.
Nafensoriel wrote:Well unless you actually work in the field.. you wont find truly accurate information on it. Same with Tranquility. Unless you physically work with it everything you say is raw conjecture and every comment you make as to its design is automatically doomed to be wrong by simple lack of information. That's simply not true. Any seasoned developer will be able to tell quite a lot with even limited knowledge of the system. There's certainly not enough knowledge for me to state exactly how it would be done and what processes could be best split onto multiple threads, but a high level view of it like this is pretty straightforward.
Nafensoriel wrote:But all that said.. if you seriously have the technical skill to build a superior tranquility(bear in mind this requires the professional understanding of not rebuilding something for exactly zero or nearly zero gain) then email CCP. Im quite sure Hilmar and Seagul would quite seriously welcome such a breakthrough considering how much of their lives theyve invested in EVE and how vested they are in its future success. I'm sure they have the technical expertise on team to do it, it's more that they don't want to invest development time into it because it's a huge project the immediate benefit is unclear to consumers, but that doesn't mean that it's not what's needed if they want to be able to support big fights with less (or no) tidi.
Again though, you're confusing me saying this is a solution to me saying it's easy. It's not. It's certainly not something that one person can swoop in and change and definitely not for what I've heard the CCP pay. Anyway, CCP seem to have already made up their minds. Large scale fights are just being phased out.
Nafensoriel wrote: the simple fact that they have basically rewritten the entire game without disruption of service or loss of data should be more than enough proof of their devotion to the project. Rewritten the entire game? Where? I've been playing over 10 years and at least half of the game is unchanged from back then. A new UI to pretty it up maybe, but a good chunk for the game works as it always has. It's actually quite the opposite. CCP are notorious for their dislike of touching legacy code. This is why POS code isn't being fixed, it''s just being replaced with POS v2, AKA citadels then will be patched out at a later date.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29530
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Posted - 2016.01.01 10:00:18 -
[63] - Quote
LOL
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
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Starbuilder Stasarik
EVE University Ivy League
6
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Posted - 2016.01.03 04:26:52 -
[64] - Quote
Just a little note about the whole "just update to multithread / not easy but still doable" bit...
I'm a software developer who works in the banking industry in the States. I've done updates on legacy systems, I've done total rewrites, I've done burn-it-all-down-and-start-fresh jobs, I've done... basically everything in this regard. This includes updating complex single-core systems to be multi-threaded systems.
For a game like EVE, with everything it has going on and the size of CCP's development team, to update it from single-core to multi-thread (from development to release, including all the QA and iteration your mind could never handle), you're probably going to be looking at ~2 years with their current development team's size, and that's if they focus on nothing else. It would be two years without any updates to anything else. Nothing new. Nothing fresh. Nothing of interest except two years of the same thing that would be invisible to players until it was released (and would be a hive of bugs for the first few months after, even with the best QA imaginable).
Will it be worth it to spend two years and millions of dollars to turn the game into a multi-threaded system? Would it be better to keep the current "good enough" system of TIDI and instead update the hardware? How would players react if there were nothing but tweaks for two years? How would players react when the first release is a nest of bugs?
CCP have already answered these types of questions with their actions. TIDI is a "good enough" system for what they currently have, and is less detrimental than updating would be. It's far cheaper and easier in this case to update the hardware. |
Daerrol
Death By Design Did he say Jump
285
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Posted - 2016.01.03 05:02:12 -
[65] - Quote
funny I only been in 2 fights where Tidi was significant enough to effect the enjoyment level and in both despite 10% TiDi i was still alpha'd off the field in a blue-tanked battleship. It really just confirmed to me how boring big ass fleets are. I guess getting alpha'd off faster means you can be into your LOL game sooner since without tidi there would be no way to reinforce the fight (And probably that would significantly effect the chances of a large fight even happening)
Oh and those reinforced server nodes do wonders. I'm in Low-sec we hit tidi around 100 in local |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5636
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Posted - 2016.01.03 05:13:59 -
[66] - Quote
For what it is worth: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/carbonio-and-bluenet-next-level-network-technology-1/
There are also several other dev blogs on TiDi:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/fixing-lag-drakes-of-destiny-part-1-1/ http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/fixing-lag-drakes-of-destiny-part-2-1/
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/introducing-time-dilation-tidi/ http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/time-dilation-hows-that-going/
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/what-a-hed-ache/
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/observing-the-burn-jita-player-event/
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7040
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Posted - 2016.01.03 10:09:00 -
[67] - Quote
Starbuilder Stasarik wrote:(from development to release, including all the QA and iteration your mind could never handle) I love littde digs like this, like you're the only person in the world with development experience and noone else could possible imagine how it's done. This generally writes off anything that follows in my mind as it usually means the poster is 12.
Starbuilder Stasarik wrote:you're probably going to be looking at ~2 years with their current development team's size, and that's if they focus on nothing else. It would be two years without any updates to anything else. Nothing new. Nothing fresh. I'd very much doubt that. The servers are modular, so it's not like they would have to rewrite absolutely everything, just SOL. I've seen bigger projects done by smaller teams in less time. That said it would be a long project for a couple of teams, but IMHO the payoff would be worth it since it would actually allow the main thing people liked about EVE. Big battles is what it's all about and they've hit a wall with them because they aren't utilising their hardware very well.
Starbuilder Stasarik wrote:(CCP have already answered these types of questions with their actions. TIDI is a "good enough" system for what they currently have, and is less detrimental than updating would be. It's far cheaper and easier in this case to update the hardware. It's not though, is it? Most people would generally avoid tidi fights because they absolutely suck. Sitting about for 12 hours doing something that could have been accomplished in a couple watching things not even starting to cycle for half an hour isn't fun. Even CCP knows tidi isn't the solution which is why instead they are breaking up fights to make the chances of a big fight occurring much smaller. Shame that destroys a huge amount of appeal for the game really.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29767
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Posted - 2016.01.03 10:19:38 -
[68] - Quote
The several thousand players who participated in BR do not exist ... ... and that it never happened ... ... and that obviously no one would ever participate in such a fight.
Ever. Never has. Never will be. And no one, not a single one, actually prefers Tidi over blackscreens.
How you can keep talking to obious hypocrites, who declare truths opposite to reality is beyond me.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
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Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
1423
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Posted - 2016.01.03 13:29:09 -
[69] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:The several thousand players who participated in BR do not exist ... ... and that it never happened ... ... and that obviously no one would ever participate in such a fight.
Ever. Never has. Never will be. And no one, not a single one, actually prefers Tidi over blackscreens.
How you can keep talking to obious hypocrites, who declare truths opposite to reality is beyond me. Yes they do, yes it did, yes they would. No. Yes it has. Yes it will. Yes they do.
To answer your last statement in a far more serious way: Talking is easy. Making people understand, now that is hard.
And in some cases a futile attempt at reaching an impossible goal.
Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format.
Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29770
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Posted - 2016.01.03 13:55:53 -
[70] - Quote
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:Solecist Project wrote:The several thousand players who participated in BR do not exist ... ... and that it never happened ... ... and that obviously no one would ever participate in such a fight.
Ever. Never has. Never will be. And no one, not a single one, actually prefers Tidi over blackscreens.
How you can keep talking to obious hypocrites, who declare truths opposite to reality is beyond me. Yes they do, yes it did, yes they would. No. Yes it has. Yes it will. Yes they do. To answer your last statement in a far more serious way: Talking is easy. Making people understand, now that is hard.And in some cases a futile attempt at reaching an impossible goal. You can NOT make someone who does not care about the truth understand it. That is a sign of weakness. People who keep argueing over and over, despite the obvious signs that anything past a first attempt it is futile, are only ever attempting to serve themselves.
Because "You are wrong, get it already!"
People are mindless puppets and Lucas is the one pulling their strings.
More news at 11.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7040
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Posted - 2016.01.03 14:41:17 -
[71] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:The several thousand players who participated in BR do not exist ... ... and that it never happened ... ... and that obviously no one would ever participate in such a fight. So because nearly a year ago there was a fight that people showed up to, that automatically means that people enjoy fighting in 10% tidi with soul crushing lag? I really don't think there are many people that enjoy being in a heavy tidi fight which is why these generally only occur when people have to show up to defend their assets. Now with entosis modules it would be even worse too, since you could sit there for several hours only to watch the entosis ship pop and reset your progress. At least with structure shoots you could see slow but steady progress.
The thing is, people see these sped up videos of massive battles and read these headlines about thousands of dollars of damage, but they show up and the reality is they will click a button then wait several hours for either their target or themselves to explode. How in any way is that good?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2001
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Posted - 2016.01.03 15:54:05 -
[72] - Quote
Lucas just wants to see the game burn because CCP banned his cheat input-multiplex mining fleet. That's why he tries so hard to push every idiotic game destroying idea. If you don't believe me there is a sticky thread full of tears in the GD forum. There is really no need to ever talk to him, just ignore the troll and all will be good.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7040
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Posted - 2016.01.03 16:34:11 -
[73] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Lucas just wants to see the game burn because CCP banned his cheat input-multiplex mining fleet. That's why he tries so hard to push every idiotic game destroying idea. If you don't believe me there is a sticky thread full of tears in the GD forum. There is really no need to ever talk to him, just ignore the troll and all will be good. Once again, I'm unphased by a piece of software I didn't use being partially banned. Once again you embarrass yourself by making assumptions that are clearly wrong.
With the ISBoxer change I'd have rather seen CCP improve the game rather than work around the real problem. If the game was challenging to play, people couldn't use broadcasting or mass manual multiboxing to do it. This is EXACTLY the same. Instead of making fleet fights less likely to occur, I'd rather see CCP improve the game so they can work in a way that excites and engages players.
Honestly, I'm shocked you still seem to be incapable of either reading or comprehending these things, but repeatedly showing up attempting to troll me really doesn't work when you're that clueless.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
29994
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Posted - 2016.01.03 17:55:36 -
[74] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Lucas just wants to see the game burn because CCP banned his cheat input-multiplex mining fleet. That's why he tries so hard to push every idiotic game destroying idea. If you don't believe me there is a sticky thread full of tears in the GD forum. There is really no need to ever talk to him, just ignore the troll and all will be good. Troll isn't really the right word to use. There's plenty of better words that describe him ... ... some of which I've used already, which are pretty accurate.
Someone writing "Honestly, I'm shocked" helps a lot exposing his "honesty" and sincereness.
People will learn, eventually ... and the rest isn't worth it anyway.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7040
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Posted - 2016.01.03 18:35:13 -
[75] - Quote
Haylp! A nobody insulted me. From someone like Solecist that contributes absolutely nothing to the community, attacks on my character mean less than nothing.
Ed: And stop derailing the thread. Keep it on topic.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3736
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Posted - 2016.01.04 02:31:26 -
[76] - Quote
About the time to multi-thread eve: I am reminded of a story.
A homeowner wanted some shade for his study. He decided to buy a small tree and let it grow, to provide the coverage. He got the tree and told his gardener to make sure he planted the tree that week. "This week? Does it have to be this week? I have quite a few other jobs to do. After all, it will take five years for that tree to grow large enough to properly shade the study." "Five years?" The homeowner exclaimed. "Then you better plant it today."
Something taking a long time to do is not an excuse to put off starting, it's a reason to start as soon as possible.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42794
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Posted - 2016.01.04 02:42:33 -
[77] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Something taking a long time to do is not an excuse to put off starting, it's a reason to start as soon as possible. This is very true. As long as it's the right thing to do.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Arancar Australis
Dead Sun Rising Enterprises
138
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Posted - 2016.01.04 06:04:53 -
[78] - Quote
Damn it, i ran out of popcorn.
Anyone know a good home delivery service? |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
30013
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Posted - 2016.01.04 09:09:33 -
[79] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Something taking a long time to do is not an excuse to put off starting, it's a reason to start as soon as possible. No context, but ...
Should we have children at the earliest possible age?
XD
Oh and look at how angry LK got. Isn't he cute, being butthurt like this? ^_^
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7041
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Posted - 2016.01.04 09:25:50 -
[80] - Quote
Hate to burst your bubble but I don't get angry over video games.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
30014
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Posted - 2016.01.04 10:17:23 -
[81] - Quote
Which shows how disconnected from reality you really are ... ... and what you really think of all of us ... ... because we are people, not a video game. :)
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The game has changed little from my point of view ... yet here I am, playing again with 3 accounts...
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Bringer of BadNews
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2016.01.04 11:14:24 -
[82] - Quote
ISD Buldath wrote:Greetings Pilot! I would like to invite you to apply to www.ccpgames.com/jobs if you believe you are capable of creating a multi threaded experience For Tranquility that CCP could use to remove Tidi, since you believe it to be so easy. CCP Could really use your Expertise and assistance on such a grand task!
well why apply to help CCP fight tidi if CCP keeps allocating a lot of money to complete different projects like a failed vampire none sense MMO, Dust for an outdated console and now Valkyrie, that most probably would have been history by now if CCP would not have somehow convinced Zuckerberg to bundle it up with OR.
You know how depressing it would be to have talents go for for a company and they see that most of the money goes to complete different projects which leaves them without any chance to actually help the company in its main game? |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7041
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Posted - 2016.01.04 15:31:04 -
[83] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote: Which shows how disconnected from reality you really are ... ... and what you really think of all of us ... ... because we are people, not a video game. :)
No, but you are random players on the internet playing a game. Anyone that gets broken up because random people on the internet don't like them needs some serious help, and probably shouldn't be playing MMOs.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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