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A bar / social hangout for our avatars in stations

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Tristan Agion Viziam Amarr Empire 29	Posted - 2015.12.29 12:20:56 - [1] - Quote Short version Create a bar / social hangout in stations, where we can walk our avatar, consume some drinks (ISK sink) and chat socially to people (setting up casual gangs, easing people into joining corps, etc.). To protect against scam spam, make it only possible to hear people within say 5 meters radius of your avatar. To protect against over-filling, limit the number of places (and create a queue system for entry). Long version According to CCP Rise, nothing predicts better that a new player will stick with the game than that they engage socially (are in a player corp). Yet there is no place where one can build up social contacts. Local chat is either deadly silent or filled with the chatter of scammers. The newbie help channel is gone after a month and the number of people reading the forums is limited. Basically, one has to jump into the deep end of joining a corp, generally without really knowing anybody there. A place where people can go and chat socially would really help here to create contacts that lead to further engagement. Beyond finding a good corp, this might make it easier to ask for help with a mission, setting up casual gangs for some transient purpose, etc. EVE has the most amazing character creation system, allowing one to create highly realistic avatars. These avatars then for the most part stand around in the captain's quarter staring pointlessly at a flickering screen, or wherever else you park yours. Creating these fancy avatars seems like an exercise in futility. Furthermore, given that CCP actually wants us to buy apparel for these characters, it seems silly to make them appear to others mostly in the form of stamp-like portraits. Clearly, if we met each other with those avatars, people would be way more interested in dressing up nicely or interestingly. So the current situation is a waste of time for the player, and a waste of income opportunity for CCP. Here's a simple idea that addresses both problems: create a bar / social hangout where we can walk out avatars in station. The only interaction required, at least at the beginning, is to be able to see other characters in their avatar and to be able to chat with them. To solve the scam spam problem, make it so that the chat in the bar only allows you to listen / talk to people within a set radius, say 5 meters. That way, a scammer can only really annoy a few people close by, and we can walk away from him. I would also suggest that the bar sells drinks and bar food (ISK sink). Eventually, it would be helpful to add gestures to give the avatars an active body language, but that can come later. In order to not overload the server and/or client with complexity, the number of places in the bar can be restricted. There could be a simple waiting queue for people to get in (and perhaps you should get thrown out after a couple of hours, to stop people from hogging the spots). I think most of the technology for this is already available. We already have avatars walking in rooms with 3D collision detection, and obviously we already have chat. There is nothing fancy going on here, like say fighting between characters. All the avatars need to do is to move around in a different (and bigger) bar room, and sit down (perhaps a new animation for bar chairs required). The animation work for taking a drink should be relatively mild as well. On the software side, I imagine one has to handle collision between players in addition, as well as restricting chat based on a player to player distance. Clearly this requires some dev work, but I think it would be a lot less work than other things one might want to do with the avatars. I think it could really make a big difference for the social life in EVE. And I think it would seriously boost sales of apparel, thus paying for itself.
Kagura Nikon Bon Jovian Drifters Did he say Jump 2107	Posted - 2015.12.29 12:47:49 - [2] - Quote That was what was called walk in stations, whose first step was incarna and was the largest failure on eve history and almost detroyed the game. I would not bet a penny they will ressurrect that so soon. "If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
Celthric Kanerian Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation 573	Posted - 2015.12.29 12:50:18 - [3] - Quote Tristan Agion wrote: Short version Create a bar / social hangout in stations, where we can walk our avatar, consume some drinks (ISK sink) and chat socially to people (setting up casual gangs, easing people into joining corps, etc.). To protect against scam spam, make it only possible to hear people within say 5 meters radius of your avatar. To protect against over-filling, limit the number of places (and create a queue system for entry). This is all you had to write, the rest was waste. Basicly this is what WiS was supposed to be, but CCP slacked with the general idea. This is what we expect it to become one day, but most definately not now.
Tristan Agion Viziam Amarr Empire 30	Posted - 2015.12.29 13:43:55 - [4] - Quote Celthric Kanerian wrote: This is all you had to write, the rest was waste. Basicly this is what WiS was supposed to be, but CCP slacked with the general idea. This is what we expect it to become one day, but most definately not now. Well, I wasn't around when all that happened. Still, what I suggested seems like really low-hanging fruit to me... Perhaps CCP aimed too high in the past? But leaving things as they are seems worse to me than taking small steps forward.
Riot Girl You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack 3871	Posted - 2015.12.29 13:55:50 - [5] - Quote I always wanted low-sec booster bars, wonder if I'll ever get them. Oh god.
NekoKitten Neko Industry 'n' PvE Apocalypse Now. 51	Posted - 2015.12.29 15:42:00 - [6] - Quote Yes I'm still waiting for Walking in Stations as well. It will be Walking in Citadels soon tho. Star Citizen can do it, Eve should be able to do it as well .. optional ofcourse, just like the Captains Quarters. Everyone can stay ship spinning if they want to. Lets go to bars and casinos, gamble, get drunk and get a holo hooker.
Solecist Project The Scope Gallente Federation 29081	Posted - 2015.12.29 16:38:39 - [7] - Quote I am saying it here again. If WiS ever sees the light of day ... ... you will see me everywhere with an army of short skirted alts ... ... raking in billions from happily paying victims. Bring it ... Alex Grison > If there was a bipartisan bill supporting cannabis use for arthritic pain, it would be Joint support for Joint support for joint support
Ares Desideratus Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 313	Posted - 2015.12.29 17:03:33 - [8] - Quote go play sims but more seriously, no, because the avatars themselves are still garbage, if they ever get around to make decent avatars with decent customization i would support this, but my guy walks like he just got cornholed, no offense
Sephiroth CloneIIV Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance 159	Posted - 2015.12.29 22:44:04 - [9] - Quote I do want this. It does seem really odd they don't, every other game has this ingrained. They big thing was execution with some insanely graphically intensive engine. They really just need to have it with decent but not amazing graphics and work up. And of course, multiplayer, any incarnation of avatars in this game should be with players, this is a mmo. Just because ccp bungled it doesn't make it impossible.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2864	Posted - 2015.12.29 23:37:28 - [10] - Quote What you propose would not create meaningful social interaction in any way. Because there still wouldn't be any 'place to go' to talk to good people. Nor is trying to sell it as an 'isk sink' meaningful since the quantity of isk sunk would be negligible. So no. I'm not against WiS in general, and the incarna debacle was not anti WiS but anti greed is good for the most part. But this is not a meaningful way forward with it.

Valkin Mordirc 1785	Posted - 2015.12.30 03:17:33 - [11] - Quote I personally do not think that EVE needs WiS, even though a lot of people do. However, WiS will always bring back the idea of the Greed is Good, and because of that, I really doubt that CCP will ever bring it to fruition, as most players will look at it as a cash grab. `#DeleteTheWeak`
Kagura Nikon Bon Jovian Drifters Did he say Jump 2129	Posted - 2015.12.30 08:43:30 - [12] - Quote Sephiroth CloneIIV wrote: I do want this. It does seem really odd they don't, every other game has this ingrained. They big thing was execution with some insanely graphically intensive engine. They really just need to have it with decent but not amazing graphics and work up. And of course, multiplayer, any incarnation of avatars in this game should be with players, this is a mmo. Just because ccp bungled it doesn't make it impossible. It means that their investor and other members of their chair board are likely very relutant to approve any project on that direction because it threatens their money. That is completely normal, when a company burn itself in a move it takes a while before the investors accept anything again on same direction. "If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
Bad Messenger Rehabilitation Clinic 859	Posted - 2015.12.30 09:13:17 - [13] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: That was what was called walk in stations, whose first step was incarna and was the largest failure on eve history and almost detroyed the game. I would not bet a penny they will ressurrect that so soon. yea, not implementing incarna fully was biggest failure which killed eve.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1357	Posted - 2015.12.30 09:32:30 - [14] - Quote Sadly WIS was released poorly at a poor time along with other poor choices Odds are it will never come back regardless of weather or not our would af to the game Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
Kagura Nikon Bon Jovian Drifters Did he say Jump 2130	Posted - 2015.12.30 09:45:45 - [15] - Quote Bad Messenger wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: That was what was called walk in stations, whose first step was incarna and was the largest failure on eve history and almost detroyed the game. I would not bet a penny they will ressurrect that so soon. yea, not implementing incarna fully was biggest failure which killed eve. Well did not kill But when you advertise an expansion as incarna, and all you have is a room with bad lighting, that burns lots of video cards aroudn the world, and that present you with a a clothes store with 70$ items as the ONLY feature in the exapnsion.. well you cannot get surprised to receive a lot of flak and a LOT of cancelled subscriptions. I Myself cancelled my subscription for 1 year because of Incarna fiasco and disrespect to the players. If they try it again they need to do it VERY carefully and with MUCh more dedication and completely separate from any money grab scheme (not that money grab is intrinsically bad, but they burned themselves there and need to be careful) "If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
Lugh Crow-Slave 1357	Posted - 2015.12.30 10:16:37 - [16] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Bad Messenger wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: That was what was called walk in stations, whose first step was incarna and was the largest failure on eve history and almost detroyed the game. I would not bet a penny they will ressurrect that so soon. yea, not implementing incarna fully was biggest failure which killed eve. Well did not kill But when you advertise an expansion as incarna, and all you have is a room with bad lighting, that burns lots of video cards aroudn the world, and that present you with a a clothes store with 70$ items as the ONLY feature in the exapnsion.. well you cannot get surprised to receive a lot of flak and a LOT of cancelled subscriptions. I Myself cancelled my subscription for 1 year because of Incarna fiasco and disrespect to the players. If they try it again they need to do it VERY carefully and with MUCh more dedication and completely separate from any money grab scheme (not that money grab is intrinsically bad, but they burned themselves there and need to be careful) Not to mention the leaked memo Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
Bad Messenger Rehabilitation Clinic 860	Posted - 2015.12.30 13:22:38 - [17] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Bad Messenger wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: That was what was called walk in stations, whose first step was incarna and was the largest failure on eve history and almost detroyed the game. I would not bet a penny they will ressurrect that so soon. yea, not implementing incarna fully was biggest failure which killed eve. Well did not kill But when you advertise an expansion as incarna, and all you have is a room with bad lighting, that burns lots of video cards aroudn the world, and that present you with a a clothes store with 70$ items as the ONLY feature in the exapnsion.. well you cannot get surprised to receive a lot of flak and a LOT of cancelled subscriptions. I Myself cancelled my subscription for 1 year because of Incarna fiasco and disrespect to the players. If they try it again they need to do it VERY carefully and with MUCh more dedication and completely separate from any money grab scheme (not that money grab is intrinsically bad, but they burned themselves there and need to be careful) there was nothing wrong on incarna, if your display card melts it is not fault of program, it is hardware failure. If you have no money to buy items, then do not buy those, all was just items that does not affect gameplay. Sadly now is too late, other games are filling needs now and EVE lost great opportunity because of peasants crying.
Kagura Nikon Bon Jovian Drifters Did he say Jump 2132	Posted - 2015.12.30 13:44:06 - [18] - Quote Bad Messenger wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: Bad Messenger wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: That was what was called walk in stations, whose first step was incarna and was the largest failure on eve history and almost detroyed the game. I would not bet a penny they will ressurrect that so soon. yea, not implementing incarna fully was biggest failure which killed eve. Well did not kill But when you advertise an expansion as incarna, and all you have is a room with bad lighting, that burns lots of video cards aroudn the world, and that present you with a a clothes store with 70$ items as the ONLY feature in the exapnsion.. well you cannot get surprised to receive a lot of flak and a LOT of cancelled subscriptions. I Myself cancelled my subscription for 1 year because of Incarna fiasco and disrespect to the players. If they try it again they need to do it VERY carefully and with MUCh more dedication and completely separate from any money grab scheme (not that money grab is intrinsically bad, but they burned themselves there and need to be careful) there was nothing wrong on incarna, if your display card melts it is not fault of program, it is hardware failure. If you have no money to buy items, then do not buy those, all was just items that does not affect gameplay. Sadly now is too late, other games are filling needs now and EVE lost great opportunity because of peasants crying. It was .. simple. The design of a screen that is supposed to be left running should not keep a GPU running for 100%. It is a screen where people leave it there and go do something else for hours. A screen where performance did not matter so a forced max FPS lock should have been implemented. My GPU did not burn, because after a few hours i started seeing texture corruption artifacts, the same type you usually see on overheating GPUs, so I turned off the game, unsubscribed and only returned when they got us ship hangar back. "If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1729	Posted - 2015.12.30 18:52:09 - [19] - Quote Are we discussing Polka Bar, Stripper Joint, Juice Bar??? OP - google walking in stations or eve riot - this is not what folks want out of a space combat game.
Tristan Agion Viziam Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2015.12.30 19:14:17 - [20] - Quote I will leave the entire "history of WiS in EVE" aside. I wasn't playing this game back then. I've been playing this game for a few months, and my suggestion simply came from wondering why nothing meaningful can be done with my avatar. Nevyn Auscent wrote: What you propose would not create meaningful social interaction in any way. Because there still wouldn't be any 'place to go' to talk to good people. Nor is trying to sell it as an 'isk sink' meaningful since the quantity of isk sunk would be negligible. So no. You make unsupported assertions there. First, yes there would be a place to go, that's precisely the point. It would literally be a physical place (well, a virtual physical place) where our avatars would meet. Whether one would meet "good" people is of course not guaranteed, just like in a real bar. But by heading to the bar you would indicate your interest in socialising. Also, unlike local chat only people in the bar (and according to my idea, furthermore within physical proximity of your avatar in the bar) will hear you talking. This means you do not announce yourself to everybody in the system just by chatting. Second, how much of an ISK sink this would be simply depends on the prices that would be set. Given that clothing can costs tens to hundreds of million ISK, I can easily imagine a glass of whiskey costing a million ISK or more. (Yes, the price system is broken if pants can cost more than spacecraft. But that EVE's economy is out of proportion for vanity items is not something this idea is trying to fix.) So binge drinking in the bar could indeed burn through a lot of ISK. We may even see the super-rich buying rounds for all present etc.

Luck Rockafeller Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 2	Posted - 2015.12.31 23:48:16 - [21] - Quote For WiS to work,it would have to be more then just Walk in Station and more then just another place to meet and greet. I do like the idea of a virtual bar, but I can see how most players will game it. But if done well, it may be a great way to relax in game. 1. Can I do PI from my bar stool? 2. Can I bring a gun? (this opens up a whole other can of worms) 3. Can I do Bounty Hunting ala Blade Runner style? 4. Trade Floor like the NYSE? Imagine being able to explore an entire station. That in it's self would take a lot of bandwidth. I think WiS could benefit the game especially for players who want a more immersive experience. But there would have to be a 'game' aspect to it. Which could ruin it for those who simply want to 'walk' around. This would be huge and it would really have to be done right... I think for players to actually do it, it would have to replace some other aspect of the game for players to actually leave their Captains Quarters.... Not sure CCP could pull this off or EVE is the right place for this kind of effort........ But it does spark the imagination......
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 68	Posted - 2016.01.01 03:01:43 - [22] - Quote As a social thing, it has value, but... Facebook and Second Life already do that pretty well. EVE is a game about going places and melting faces (or stealing stuff, or building stuff, or whatever else you want). The million-dollar question is: how does walking in stations fit into this? The most obvious answer is to make at least some stations a very large place with lots of places to hide and fight over things. Board-and-capture could become a viable invasion tactic. Sneaking around and hacking could become a viable way to steal things. With passwords on containers, we could simulate a very realistic password-cracking game. Instead of actually trying to generate millions of hashes per second, the game would have to be a complicated mess of regular expressions and deduced probabilities for a given crack attempt to succeed in a given amount of time. It would work something like: Is the target password in the crack algorithm's target list? If so, continue: How long would the crack algorithm take to run (attempts per second/total attempts necessary to complete the routine)? How early in the pass would the target password be hit? Ex: bruteforce from aaaaaa to zzzzzz on "abcdef" would break quickly, and "zyxwvu" would break at the end. We already put passwords on boxes, and they're practically unbreakable unless they're insanely bad because we can only try probably 1/second. If they had to stand up to a very realistically simulated modern attack, well... that game would be a lot more interesting. This would be a nice lesson in password hygeine for the players, too, if their in-game stuff gets stolen because they used "qwerty" instead of, say, "L8yb%wn0bXt3Pd^v", which would probably never break in a real-world attack (except you don't want that one because it's on the Internet somewhere). A signature :o
Linna Excel Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 249	Posted - 2016.01.01 08:13:56 - [23] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: That was what was called walk in stations, whose first step was incarna and was the largest failure on eve history and almost detroyed the game. I would not bet a penny they will ressurrect that so soon. It was a failure because of 80 dollar monocles. This game could use walking in stations and being able to have in game "face time" with others like people in your corp. WiS wasn't a problem, it was a DLC monitization that made EA and UBIsoft executives need clean underwear which was the problem. IMO the crowd's reaction was correct but CCP's reaction to the crowd's reaction was the issue. They need to get over it and grow a pair. Let's be honest. Dust should never have happened as a separate game. It should have been a part of eve online proper as an aspect of WiS and PI. I can has blogging skills!
Alexhandr Shkarov Swamphole Inc. Swamphole 20	Posted - 2016.01.02 17:15:04 - [24] - Quote Tristan Agion wrote: Celthric Kanerian wrote: This is all you had to write, the rest was waste. Basicly this is what WiS was supposed to be, but CCP slacked with the general idea. This is what we expect it to become one day, but most definately not now. Well, I wasn't around when all that happened. Still, what I suggested seems like really low-hanging fruit to me... Perhaps CCP aimed too high in the past? But leaving things as they are seems worse to me than taking small steps forward. Outside of all the problems with finances, the issue is that CCP would have to add a secondary engine to render and model all the things you'd like to see to a game where that's not a core part. This is, as far as I know, also partially why Incarna failed with WiS All my posts are on my personal title and should not be confused as me speaking for anyone else.
Zimmer Jones Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans 447	Posted - 2016.01.02 20:16:49 - [25] - Quote a separate "game" might work, based on the Carbon framework. personally I've wanted a spacebar since the beginning, and have even gone so far as to suggest extremely low detail 3ds Final fantasy level characters just for interactions sake. also, just because someone mentioned WiS, hats, more hairstyles, better tattoos, cigars/cigarettes more facial hair for both sexes, and prosthetic faces. Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 1439	Posted - 2016.01.02 20:32:06 - [26] - Quote Luck Rockafeller wrote: Imagine being able to explore an entire station. That in it's self would take a lot of bandwidth. Mmm... no, no it wouldn't. Not anymore than doing anything else in-game requires. It's not like the station itself is being transmitted over the wire. Not that I give a **** about WiS or anything, but that was just plain incorrect. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Lyra Gerie Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 77	Posted - 2016.01.02 21:47:16 - [27] - Quote I feel like Eve needs something like this even if its in some kind of minimal capacity. The ability to see your corp mates avatars and interact with them would help immensely in the social aspect of this game. It's one thing to have all those ships in fleet flying with you, it's another to see relatable human figures that those ships are supposed to represent. I think it would help most for new players as well, because it does take a while to grasp everyone is a space ship in this game and before you grasp that the world feels overwhelming.
Amber Starview Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 55	Posted - 2016.01.02 21:51:14 - [28] - Quote The idea of a dust style lobby area in stations they made on PS3 home would do and surely would not steal too much time away from other space ship stuff If they added interaction with others ,games ,pie and other things it would be awesome
Kyra Lee Ixian Machines TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 22	Posted - 2016.01.03 05:26:27 - [29] - Quote Tristan Agion wrote: I will leave the entire "history of WiS in EVE" aside. I wasn't playing this game back then. I've been playing this game for a few months, and my suggestion simply came from wondering why nothing meaningful can be done with my avatar. I think what a lot of people here are saying is that you shouldn't have had an avatar to begin with. The entire string of events that lead to Incarna, the CQ, and WIS in general should have never happened the way it did and quite possibly never have happened at all. I will go ahead and say now, I do not care for or want WIS in any form in eve. If they somehow make Legion and incorporate that into taking over citadels then I would be willing to rethink my position. With all that said I know some people want to see their avatars, want to make them look pretty, and want to chat with others at a spacebar and see those player's avatars. The problem with that comes down to development resources and what it would actually add to gameplay. Someone has mentioned a Market or stock exchange, I can just hit a button for the market. A place to check your PI, I can just hit a button for that. There is no need to physically move to a location to accomplish these tasks, and if they somehow removed those options to just hit a button people would not be happy. I think to convince this player base and possibly the devs to accept WIS(putting aside the money grab aspect) is to provide some game experience that cannot be done in space but has an actual impact on the game. Because it's cool, or I wanna see pretty avatars, is not going to provide that experience. The social interaction you are seeking can currently be provided by system and player made chat channels.


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