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Amarr is NOT gimped

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Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.19 10:05:00 - [1] Edited by: Cipher7 on 19/01/2007 10:01:52 Alot of people out there are of the opinion that Amarr are gimped. Having fought Amarr loyalists on and off I do not share this view. They simply have to use different tactics. Last night a mixed fleet of about 10 ships, 1 bs, 1 bc the rest all cruisers and frigates. Found an Apoc at a gate, got points on him, figured "heh, easy kill", for about the next 3-4 minutes the whole gang proceeded to pound him with everything we had, missiles, guns, drones. Got this SOB to deep structure, figured it was over, incredibly I'm watching his armor rise...and rise....and rise... I'm like WTF, am I shooting spitballs at this guy? Suddenly 4 more Amarr loyalists enter local, I see what's happening now, it's the old bait trap. One heavily tanked guy comes in, gets the whole gang to engage, then the enemy gang comes in and starts chewing on your leg. I'm not mad, this is how it SHOULD be, who else should have an uber tank if not Amarr? Good fight and uh...savor the flavor suckas because I realize I made a couple mistakes last night and working to correct them. Death to Amarr!
Licdy	Posted - 2007.01.19 10:14:00 - [2] the problem with amarr is not that they cant tank. thay cant tank and fire lasers at the same time.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.01.19 10:16:00 - [3] Amarr are fine...my Armageddon is few complaints...mostly the utility hi slot...would rather it be a 4th mid. 7/4/8 geddons anyone? ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.19 10:28:00 - [4] The OP doesn't seem to realise that any megathron or typhoon can be tanked about as well than an Apoc. What point is a cap bonus when everyone use cap boosters? And the problem with Amarrs isn't with their armor, it's with their damage types, but the OP doesn't mention that... ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Broska Shadow Blades	Posted - 2007.01.19 10:31:00 - [5] Please my fellow Amarr pilots, Don't flame him. He obviously beleives it's April the 1st already. ------------------------------ Originally by: Tovarishch flying a Scorp into a fleet battle is like parking a pink moped in front of a biker bar - you will die... quickly.
Wizzkidy	Posted - 2007.01.19 10:35:00 - [6] OP, You seem to be mistaken with what the problems are. Ammar cannot tank any better then any other race!!!! that answers your silly statement
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:10:00 - [7] Originally by: Wizzkidy OP, You seem to be mistaken with what the problems are. Ammar cannot tank any better then any other race!!!! that answers your silly statement Check out the armor resist specs on all 4 races and come on back. In particular go check armor resists that Minmatar get, and compare them with Amarr armor resists. = Proud member of the Carebear Rehabilitation Committee =
MKeeper Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:15:00 - [8] I think I seen someone earlier in IRC mention an Abaddon bait setup with 1600mm plates in all lows, Armor Pump rigs and (just to take it to a bit of an extreme) slave set - I haven't calculated that but that, plus the Abaddon's natural resist bonus (and stick a few smarties in the highs for kicks) has to make it the best bait-boat BS surely?
Lucius Amarriantis Ordo Occultus Deus THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:15:00 - [9] Aye - the problem is being restricted to two damage types, a flat out gimping of an entire weapon types usage, not a race itself. With our only primary damage being Em and Thermal this means having to enagage the enemy for much longer, hence the tanking nature of Amarr. To the previous poster, it's not that Amarr ships are necassarily better at tanking, its more that an Amarr ship HAS to be able to tank to last the extra time needed to wear the enemy down through its most tanked damage types, this is why Amarrians are known as tankers. All it would take is the introduction of primary kinetic and explosive crystal type and the entire Amarrian way of flying would start to change - with putting our damage types on an even keel with everyone else the scum of the north would again live in fear of gold on the horizon.
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Licdy the problem with amarr is not that they cant tank. thay cant tank and fire lasers at the same time. Which ship can tank and gank at the same time? At least Amarr can do one of these decisively better than any other race. You're right that lasers are Bleh. But the ships are excellent at what they do. Just gotta use either Proj or half your rack of highs for NOS. = Proud member of the Carebear Rehabilitation Committee =
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:23:00 - [11] Edited by: Aramendel on 19/01/2007 11:21:09 Originally by: Cipher7 Check out the armor resist specs on all 4 races and come on back. In particular go check armor resists that Minmatar get, and compare them with Amarr armor resists. The minnie resist is reducing EM damage by 25%. The amarr resist is reducing exp damage by 11%. Your point? Of cource, the actual amount of damage both racial resistances prevent is exactly the same, so it does not really matter. Unless you are saying that exp damage is far far more common than EM damage, in which case exp clearly needs a nerf and EM a buff.
Electric Cucumber Amarr Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:32:00 - [12] Originally by: Shadowsword What point is a cap bonus when everyone use cap boosters? 8000 cap + x cap boosters > 5000 cap + x cap boosters
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:32:00 - [13] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Licdy the problem with amarr is not that they cant tank. thay cant tank and fire lasers at the same time. Which ship can tank and gank at the same time? At least Amarr can do one of these decisively better than any other race. You're right that lasers are Bleh. But the ships are excellent at what they do. Just gotta use either Proj or half your rack of highs for NOS. what amarr does decisively better than other races is dying. Atm tanking champions are shield tanks.(especially roflpassive bc/cruiser tanks) Dunno, minmatards can tank and do damage, caldari can tank and do damage, gallente can tank and do damage (rofldomi with shield tank, rack of neutrons and pdus, mag stabs in low for undock ganks)... Amarr ... yeah full rack of nosf and wait for him to drown in his tears. -------- Do you have Amarr Encryption lvl5 trained? Contact me.
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:32:00 - [14] Originally by: Lucius Amarriantis Aye - the problem is being restricted to two damage types, a flat out gimping of an entire weapon types usage, not a race itself. With our only primary damage being Em and Thermal this means having to enagage the enemy for much longer, hence the tanking nature of Amarr. To the previous poster, it's not that Amarr ships are necassarily better at tanking, its more that an Amarr ship HAS to be able to tank to last the extra time needed to wear the enemy down through its most tanked damage types, this is why Amarrians are known as tankers. All it would take is the introduction of primary kinetic and explosive crystal type and the entire Amarrian way of flying would start to change - with putting our damage types on an even keel with everyone else the scum of the north would again live in fear of gold on the horizon. With every race it's possible to think outside the box. You can take a Raven and armor tank it, and use all EWAR in the mids. You can take a Vexor, stick all nos and proj in the highs and ignore the weapon bonus of the ship, let the drones do all the heavy lifting. Same concept with Amarr boats. Nobody says you have to use the whole rack for lasers. You can use half the rack for NOS and half the rack for lasers, which is effective in that you are breaking the enemy's tank by nossing him, and half the rack of lasers is enough to punch through. Unless you have a full rack of Tachyons, in which case guess what you're a Tempest, you should be Sniping not tanking, except that a Tachyon boat has a way better tank than a Tempest. = Proud member of the Carebear Rehabilitation Committee =
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:34:00 - [15] Originally by: Electric Cucumber Originally by: Shadowsword What point is a cap bonus when everyone use cap boosters? 8000 cap + x cap boosters > 5000 cap + x cap boosters But 8000cap + x cap boosters - 50cap /s drain for guns < 5000 cap + x boosters + 0 cap usage -------- Do you have Amarr Encryption lvl5 trained? Contact me.
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:40:00 - [16] OP, FO, please. OMG THAT APOC TANKED LIKE OMGGGOMG -- because he was ******* bait with 3 reps a billion tungsten plates and probably dual injected. Idiot. It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:40:00 - [17] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Electric Cucumber Originally by: Shadowsword What point is a cap bonus when everyone use cap boosters? 8000 cap + x cap boosters > 5000 cap + x cap boosters But 8000cap + x cap boosters - 50cap /s drain for guns < 5000 cap + x boosters + 0 cap usage Or you could stick as many proj as you can in the highs and get 8000cap + x cap boosters + 0 cap usage = Proud member of the Carebear Rehabilitation Committee =
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:47:00 - [18] Edited by: Cipher7 on 19/01/2007 11:43:44 Originally by: Exiled One OP, FO, please. OMG THAT APOC TANKED LIKE OMGGGOMG -- because he was ******* bait with 3 reps a billion tungsten plates and probably dual injected. Idiot. Tut tut personal attacks. Of course he was bait. Could he have pulled off the same thing in a Minmatard BS? Doubt it. = Proud member of the Carebear Rehabilitation Committee =
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:48:00 - [19] Because minimal dps is SUCH a good trade for a tanking slightly longer. Basically, amarr can only use their long tank advantage (which isn't the same as "strong" - a raven/rokh can mount a stronger tank than an apoc/aba) if they fit for low dps. It's not an advantage, it's a tradeoff. Which wouldn't be that bad if amarr hadn't one disadvantage on top of this - their low flexibility.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 19/01/2007 11:45:12 Originally by: Cipher7 Or you could stick as many proj as you can in the highs and get 8000cap + x cap boosters + 0 cap usage Because minimal dps is SUCH a good trade for a tanking slightly longer. Basically, amarr can only use their long tank advantage (which isn't the same as "strong" - a raven/rokh can mount a stronger tank than an apoc/aba) if they fit for low dps. It's not an advantage, it's a tradeoff. Which wouldn't be that bad if amarr hadn't one disadvantage on top of this - their low flexibility. Tell me what is advantage of long tank over strong one? -------- Do you have Amarr Encryption lvl5 trained? Contact me.
Arimai hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:54:00 - [21] Originally by: LUKEC Tell me what is advantage of long tank over strong one? You can go afk in missions without faction gear - something that most raven users like.
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:55:00 - [22] Edited by: korrey on 19/01/2007 11:52:18 Originally by: Cipher7 Edited by: Cipher7 on 19/01/2007 11:43:44 Originally by: Exiled One OP, FO, please. OMG THAT APOC TANKED LIKE OMGGGOMG -- because he was ******* bait with 3 reps a billion tungsten plates and probably dual injected. Idiot. Tut tut personal attacks. Of course he was bait. Could he have pulled off the same thing in a Minmatard BS? Doubt it. Say hello to the Typhoon my friend. Amarr are gimped no matter how you look at it. Their main role is tanking, and they do rather well. But so cant every other ship on the block now. by the way, if you had brough one nos domi with you, the fight would have been over before his tacklers even warped. Edit: OMG after 10 months my picture randomly decides to start loading on the forums with this char
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:57:00 - [23] Originally by: LUKEC Tell me what is advantage of long tank over strong one? Well, it's more resistant vs NOS. Not that I wouldn't prefer a stronger tank myself, too.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:20:00 - [24] Originally by: Cipher7 Edited by: Cipher7 on 19/01/2007 11:43:44 Originally by: Exiled One OP, FO, please. OMG THAT APOC TANKED LIKE OMGGGOMG -- because he was ***** bait with 3 reps a billion tungsten plates and probably dual injected. Idiot. Tut tut personal attacks. Of course he was bait. Could he have pulled off the same thing in a Minmatard BS? Doubt it. Easily, but you would have been doing 920 DPS while you were shield tanking from here to oblivion. Maelstrom: 800mm Repeating Autocannon II x 8 Heavy Electrochemical Injector(800)/XL Booster/Boost Amp II/INV II/Inv II/EM Hardener DC/Gyrostabalizer II x 3/PDS That will outtank a 3 rep apoc, outgank a 3 rep apoc, and you can stick 3 falloff rigs to give you 550 DPS @ 50km, or 3 rep amounts to make you into 4 rep apoc.** ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:28:00 - [25] Yeah I kinda have to feel that the op was just a bit annoyed at being baited like that.. I do have to agree tho that an apoc is a great baiter.. it has the nice cap bonus and enough fitting to field a great tank.. but most of all it's amarr and certain people will see them as easy prey coughlolcough.. But tbh typhoon, arma, mega, domi are all great tanks to do this, rokh and abbadon would be uber.... but maybe too good, people might not take on a domi with a small gang because of the rep these ships have.. As for the amarr = gimped part.. amarr are gimped, maybe not as much as a large part of the forum community are making it out to be, but still gimped. Yes they can put up a great tank or they can put up some great dmg dealing ships, but the em therm dmg types only with lasers, and them sucking your cap dry in minutes, is painful. /me watches Jamesw's Domi for the win movie again to see a passive uber tanked domi bait war targets again with glee - All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please
Wizzkidy	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:46:00 - [26] Originally by: Keitaro Baka Yeah I kinda have to feel that the op was just a bit annoyed at being baited like that.. I agree. Quote: I do have to agree tho that an apoc is a great baiter.. it has the nice cap bonus and enough fitting to field a great tank.. but most of all it's amarr and certain people will see them as easy prey coughlolcough.. Yes because they are easy pray, they might tank like any other ship but people think they are weaker which in a lot of repects they are. Quote: But tbh typhoon, arma, mega, domi are all great tanks to do this, rokh and abbadon would be uber.... but maybe too good, people might not take on a domi with a small gang because of the rep these ships have.. Again I go back to my reply up the top ^^ the apoc is no better at doing a tanking job then any other ship!!
Solusar Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:35:00 - [27] What you failed to mention is said Apoc had autocannons fitted, which shows what the real problem is with Amarr ships.
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:54:00 - [28] so am i to understand that your saying amarr are not gimped because they make good bait? DE
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:19:00 - [29] Originally by: Kehmor I think caldari and gallente need a boost. yeah your right. so o minmatar and amarr tbh DE
Xendie Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:17:00 - [30] Originally by: Cipher7 Edited by: Cipher7 on 19/01/2007 11:43:44 Originally by: Exiled One OP, FO, please. OMG THAT APOC TANKED LIKE OMGGGOMG -- because he was ***** bait with 3 reps a billion tungsten plates and probably dual injected. Idiot. Tut tut personal attacks. Of course he was bait. Could he have pulled off the same thing in a Minmatard BS? Doubt it. of course not. minmatar ships are called 6 billion parts flying in close formation with lots of ducttape and chickenwire. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent? Quote:** jake sisko > its f-e's bob dev alt making lag

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