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Ruune en Gravonere
Running with Dogs
Stella Nova
37
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Posted - 2016.01.13 11:42:21 -
[1] - Quote
I have no idea where this needs to go so I'm putting it here and I'm sure if its in the wrong place it will get moved
Over the last few days it has come to my attention that there is huge confusion over whether you will get your account banned, with no discussion and no warning, for having Overwolf (a common add on for TS3) and/or Voice Attack (a tool used by some gamers with disabilities and also in other space games that I won't mention here)
And I'm not even talking about them necessarily being use in conjunction with Eve, just having them on the comp system
I am also aware that posts on reddit, not always the most reliable for factual information, have indicated that 'it will depend on the Dev' as to whether someone gets banned or not
This is unacceptable. We have a clear set of T&C's that both parties have to adhere to and there should be no 'personal' discretion or 'no straight answer' when it comes to people losing access to their accounts which have not only monetary but social value to them
In my personal opinion, and again this has not happened to me but from the conversations I've had this is an issue, a Company who is happy to take monthly subscriptions from their customers should not then deny access to service without a full explanation and evidence of the contravention of the rules
To just ban someone for a technical term like 'client modifications' and not give them a fuller explanation, an opportunity to stop whatever it is that CCP believes is happening is again unacceptable. This smacks of closed court hearing where neither the defendant nor their representative are aware of the exact nature of the charges nor the evidence on which the charges are brought
Now this may only happen to a few people but the issue is about our relationship and trust as customers in you CCP the company providing the service. If you can, without discussion or fair warning, seemingly arbitrarily stop our service then how much confidence can we have that we can log on tomorrow and not find ourselves banned for something that we didnt know we weren't allowed to do?
And once this happens customer service should kick into the highest gear to respond to customers who have been denied service (and explanation) within hours... not have questions fall into a black hole of non response
So lets have some clarity so that we can all adhere to our end of the service contract with you CCP as providers. Its your service you can set the rules as you wish but you have to make them transparent and communicate them and they have to be applied exactly the same in every situation
Overwolf will get you banned yes or no?
Voice Attack will get you banned yes or no?
Using them for Eve yes or no?
Having them installed on your computer yes or no? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26689
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Posted - 2016.01.13 11:50:36 -
[2] - Quote
The answer to all your questions is GÇ£depends on the circumstances.GÇ¥
The answer will never be GÇ£noGÇ¥ because they're third-party applications GÇö CCP categorically cannot vouch for their use or interaction with EVE and that it will never interfere with the game in a way that constitutes cheating. This holds true even for stuff like EFT or EVEMon.
The answer will also (almost) never be GÇ£yesGÇ¥ unless you are talking about a piece of software that has as its only purpose to make illegal modifications to the game. For anything else, the lack of a categorical GÇ£yesGÇ¥ directly reflects the lack of a categorical purpose and usage as a cheating tool.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
998
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Posted - 2016.01.13 13:50:53 -
[3] - Quote
Another reason you will not see a yes is because CCP does not make those programs. CCP does not have the time or resources to check everyone of those and other 3rd party programs whenever they update. For example, right now oversold may just be a T3 add-on. However if the dev expands It to include input broadcasting in a future release, that could be problematic, especially if CCP said the program was fine.
Your best option is to file a petition and include As much info as possible including links to the software sites. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2482
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Posted - 2016.01.13 15:00:28 -
[4] - Quote
File a petition or quit.
Oh btw, your petition will more than likely not have a clear answer so deal with it or quit I guess... |
Daerrol
Death By Design
Did he say Jump
286
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Posted - 2016.01.13 16:46:27 -
[5] - Quote
EVE's policy is actually pretty clear. They have their macro policy and modifications to the game policy. Overwolf doesn't modify the game, as it's a 3rd party chat something or other, so it is only an issue if it violates the macro policy, which is actually crystal clear. Look at their new input automation changes which I think are stickied in General Chat. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8001
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Posted - 2016.01.13 17:03:35 -
[6] - Quote
CCP does not seem to like having their GM's define exactly where rule boundaries exist in their game. I envision a giant Magic 8-Ball-« in their support department that GM's refer to when answering tickets like this.
File 2 identical tickets from different accounts. When the results don't match ask to have them both escalated and question why exactly the answers you received were not consistent. When you receive some canned, non-explanation to that inquiry you can decide to either keep playing or quit.
If the responses to your initial tickets do happen to match, you can make the same decision and revel in the fact that for once, two of CCP's GM's (and the Magic 8-Ball-«) were applying the same rules for a change.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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Ruune en Gravonere
Running with Dogs
Stella Nova
37
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Posted - 2016.01.13 17:15:07 -
[7] - Quote
I have to admit I am worried by the attitude suck it up or quit... when all thats being asked for is some open communication when the Dev's find something that they think is in breach of the T&C's but seem to fail to actually tell the person they are banning exactly what the issue is if things can't be as clear as a 'no' or a 'yes' to x in advance
It may be that the customer service around 'banning' or 'infractions' is symptomatic of a wider general customer service which, according to players I have spoken to, can be a little formulaic
And we come back to the issue that if Devs/CCP can't be categoric about what is and isn't ok as its situational or depends on usual its even more important to give full feedback either before or at the point of banning someone... if the Dev's can't be clear beforehand how on earth are we the players supposed to be? |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Snuffed Out
9412
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Posted - 2016.01.13 17:20:24 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:This is unacceptable. We have a clear set of T&C's that both parties have to adhere to and there should be no 'personal' discretion or 'no straight answer' when it comes to people losing access to their accounts which have not only monetary but social value to them
And? That is pretty much industry standard. Read any game's Terms and Conditions and you are going to find A LOT of legal vagueness (which is intentionally put in there to cover any "unforseen" issues they do not like).
Quote: a Company who is happy to take monthly subscriptions from their customers should not then deny access to service without a full explanation and evidence of the contravention of the rules
It is a private company. More than that, it is a private company in another country. It can do whatever it wants to do as long as it adheres to actual local laws.
The "Bill of Rights" or ideals of "justice" do not apply here.
Quote:This smacks of closed court hearing where neither the defendant nor their representative are aware of the exact nature of the charges nor the evidence on which the charges are brought
Again, private company. And you signed the Terms and Conditions. No You are at their mercy.
Again, industry standard (for pretty much any industry tbqh).
How did you Veterans start?
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Memphis Baas
933
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Posted - 2016.01.13 17:36:56 -
[9] - Quote
Well, the rules and terms of service are posted, and also I believe there's a sticky at the top of the GD sub-forum about what's allowed and what's not allowed.
There's nothing inherently wrong with the systems you're describing, and I believe they're ok to use, as long as you are not macro-ing or automating in-game activities. Specifically, one voice command should activate one key press or mouse click, basically. Thus, you can say "F1 F2 F3" to activate your weapons, but you cannot say "Attack!" to have the system target the enemy, activate all 3 of your weapons, and also your shields and resistance hardeners.
I don't know what detection methods CCP uses, and we aren't allowed to discuss it on the forums. We also aren't allowed to discuss what they do, or not do, as far as bans and petitions.
So, as it's been said above, their decisions are made on a case-by-case basis. And if you want the bottom line, ok or not ok to use, you should create a support ticket with CCP and detail what system you have and how you're trying to use it. |
ISD Buldath
ISD STAR
284
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Posted - 2016.01.13 17:57:51 -
[10] - Quote
Allrighty.
This one is toeing the line on Rule 11. Quote:Discussion of warnings and bans is prohibited.
I'm going to keep this open, however, and see what happens.
~ISD Buldath
Interstellar Services Department
Support, Training and Resources Division
Lt. Commander
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26696
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Posted - 2016.01.13 17:59:03 -
[11] - Quote
Ruune en Gravonere wrote:I have to admit I am worried by the attitude suck it up or quit... when all thats being asked for is some open communication when the Dev's find something that they think is in breach of the T&C's but seem to fail to actually tell the person they are banning exactly what the issue is if things can't be as clear as a 'no' or a 'yes' to x in advance.
Either way, you won't get an answer here. Petition for a clarification about your specific case and/or just accept it. They will not be open about it because it's between you and the company, and as mentioned, they can't be more specific than they already are about the general case.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Ibutho Inkosi
Irubo Kovu
31
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Posted - 2016.01.13 23:07:58 -
[12] - Quote
Ruune en Gravonere wrote:...a Company who is happy to take monthly subscriptions from their customers should not then deny access to service without a full explanation and evidence of the contravention of the rules....
I bet you're going to find this hard to believe, but a company that decides to terminate its business with you has no obligation to you to explain why UNLESS such is previously stated in a contract. Now, we all know you hold no such contract. However, this sentiment of yours seems so adamant I was curious:
Where did you come up with this belief of entitlement?
As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
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Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations
Get Off My Lawn
427
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Posted - 2016.01.14 13:16:59 -
[13] - Quote
Ibutho Inkosi wrote:Ruune en Gravonere wrote:...a Company who is happy to take monthly subscriptions from their customers should not then deny access to service without a full explanation and evidence of the contravention of the rules.... I bet you're going to find this hard to believe, but a company that decides to terminate its business with you has no obligation to you to explain why UNLESS such is previously stated in a contract. Now, we all know you hold no such contract. However, this sentiment of yours seems so adamant I was curious: Where did you come up with this belief of entitlement?
qft
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
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