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Moraguth
Amarr
Rangers
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Posted - 2007.01.26 01:53:00 -
[1]
So here's a question: What if they removed the kill mail for the killer? I know it wouldn't change alliance tactics at all, cause (as far as i know) they aren't in it (gate camps) for the kills. However, my old roomate and a bunch of his friends fervently collect kill mails. When he opens his eve-mail, it takes about 2 min to load all the way, and it's not his computer. I yell at him about being a pirate ass-hole, and he yells at me for being a carebear, great fun ensues. I know that part of the reson for the killing has nothing to do with the killmail, obviously. But, I have to wonder, if there wasn't that "reward" would it really be worth more than the "bragging rights" that you get now when you kill people?
I'm not bashing the piracy (here), i'm just wondering if the psychology would change if there wasn't that "proof" that could be shown or posted on kill boards after a kill. This is really just a question for low sec pirates, or people who think they know everything... so i guess most people who play.
and.... go!
good game |
Strange Guy
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Posted - 2007.01.26 01:56:00 -
[2]
He should copy his kill mails to a text file, that would prevent the slow down.
And is it such a hard thing to understand that gate campers might want the loot and salvage from player ships, they aren't just doing it for fun. Gate camping is very boring, waiting for hours at a time, sometimes no ships at all.
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Nero Scuro
Caldari
Murder of Crows
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2007.01.26 02:03:00 -
[3]
Yep, I agree. Killmail hogging breeds FPS style mentality. It's annoying, and isn't in the spirit of the game.
Killing in eve should be meaningful, either as a means of finance or of security. Not of seeing how high you can get on a killboard.
___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
Moraguth
Amarr
Rangers
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Posted - 2007.01.26 02:03:00 -
[4]
Didn't mean to imply that it wasn't profitable for them to camp, sorry. I know they can make alot of money off of the random industrial ship, or faction fitted ship flown by the unlucky individual. Maybe this is more relevant to the suicide gankers? the Ex-WoW guilds that are experiencing PvP for the first time? or maybe just the people who have enough money, and just enjoy killing? I don't know.
and about the text file, yeah, i told him that too, but he never listens to anything a carebear says ;)
good game |
Siri Blue
Gallente
Duvolle Laboratories Blue Division
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Posted - 2007.01.26 02:08:00 -
[5]
I agree that removing killmails would force a shift in mentality for at least a few killmail braggers...
And in the light of the recent FPS-mentality brand games ban discussion in Germany and Europe...I'd say...not getting KILLmails about how you destroyed the pod and body of another player...might prove...necessary 
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.01.26 02:11:00 -
[6]
Apparently killmails have been borked recently (no idea if it is fixed yet).
When I get killed I do not smackor say "good fight" (cuz mostly it wasn't...it was me getting ganked). I just move on my merry way and get on with life.
Imagine my surprise when the last time I got nailed at a gate (I shoulda known better so my bad on that one) the pirate convos me and politely asks for a copy of the killmail that apparently I received but he didn't!
Part of me definitely wanted to tell him where I would be happy to put that killmail but not wanting to be a bad sport I forwarded it to him but geez...seems they have taken on an importance all their own.
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Fauza
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Posted - 2007.01.26 02:26:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Fauza on 26/01/2007 02:23:28
 Originally by: Humpalot
Apparently killmails have been borked recently (no idea if it is fixed yet).
When I get killed I do not smackor say "good fight" (cuz mostly it wasn't...it was me getting ganked). I just move on my merry way and get on with life.
Imagine my surprise when the last time I got nailed at a gate (I shoulda known better so my bad on that one) the pirate convos me and politely asks for a copy of the killmail that apparently I received but he didn't!
Part of me definitely wanted to tell him where I would be happy to put that killmail but not wanting to be a bad sport I forwarded it to him but geez...seems they have taken on an importance all their own.
I think that was fixed very quickly unless me and my friends have been lucky for the past couple months
edit: also i would probably get to -10 with that change because i would be trying to get corpses
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Karille
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.26 02:34:00 -
[8]
Kill mails aren't just a toy to give people something to brag about. They let you know how much monetary loss you've inflicted on your opponent. The load of a hauler you kill might give clues that the person you kill might have to be back later with another load of POS fuel, or if that hauler was trying to bring reinforcement equipment to a badly cut off force. In the case of Mercenary Coalition it is a good tool to let our clients know if they're getting their money's worth from our services.
_________________________________________________________
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Vizranuh
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Posted - 2007.01.26 03:51:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Vizranuh on 26/01/2007 03:49:38
Edited by: Vizranuh on 26/01/2007 03:48:09
in a way i agree with you. i enjoy getting killmails for logical reasons, as in, it tells me who i fought, what they were flying and what that person was using in battle. which helps in the continuation of my pvp career.
however, i've never been a fan of killboards. someone earlier stated that is breeds fps style gameplay or something of the sort, and i wholey agree.
whenever stats are introduced into a game, be it a fps or a game like this, people become stat *****s, and all they go after are those stats. "i want to be #1 on our board". when killboards became a big thing, it got rid of a lot of the ransoming that was going on, because all they wanted were the killmails.
Also, i'm curious why anyone doesn't secure their killboards. they're a huge resource for intel on the opposing side. I surely don't wish for my enemies to know where i hang out or what i like to fly or how i fit my ship.
anyway, yeah, not a fan of the killboards, but i enjoy my killmails for private use.
cheers
--
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.01.26 04:05:00 -
[10]
But I like getting mail, its the only mail I get since no one hates me 
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr
The Drekla Consortium
Kurai Komichi
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Posted - 2007.01.26 04:33:00 -
[11]
If you remove the killmail you will remove most of the meaning of the fight. When I fight my friends in Mai it's so I can kill them just to kill them. I can't prove to anyone any of my feats or no one else in EVE will be able to prove what they have or have not done without the killmail.
The best part about the kill is the killmail. Who gets the final hit? Who does the most damage? What exactly did my enemy lose in the explosion?
A lot of people kill specifically for the mail in my opinion. What's the point of going on a roaming gang through low sec if when you're done you have nothing to show for it? Sure you may have some loot but so what? Where's the real reward for killing your opponent? It's not like you get a corpse from popping a ship...gotta get the pod to get the corpse...corpses would replace killmails =P
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
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Moraguth
Amarr
Rangers
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Posted - 2007.01.26 04:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
If you remove the killmail you will remove most of the meaning of the fight. When I fight my friends in Mai it's so I can kill them just to kill them. I can't prove to anyone any of my feats or no one else in EVE will be able to prove what they have or have not done without the killmail.
The best part about the kill is the killmail. Who gets the final hit? Who does the most damage? What exactly did my enemy lose in the explosion?
A lot of people kill specifically for the mail in my opinion. What's the point of going on a roaming gang through low sec if when you're done you have nothing to show for it? Sure you may have some loot but so what? Where's the real reward for killing your opponent? It's not like you get a corpse from popping a ship...gotta get the pod to get the corpse...corpses would replace killmails =P
not-so-secretly, that's my intent: to make less of a reason for pointless killing except for being able to say "my dad can beat up your dad, he has more kill mails". In my opinion, there should be some cost associated with killing someone (or just their ship). Right now, the reward for some people, the flashing light of their inbox, is amazingly high, but the cost is negligible.
Without the kill mail, those roaming bands would have to have more of a purpose. As it is right now, "a killmail is a killmail" be it against an enemy, the random (usually worthless loot) indy, or the alt scout. Killing has a purpose, and that shouldn't be to just get something you can wrap around your epeen to make it look bigger ;)
If I was a pirate, I'd go after people everywhere, and probably delete the mails, they're pointless to me. I'm not going to keep meticulous records to pour over later on to determine blah blah blah blah. The kill should be its own reward.
Sorry, this has turned into a rambling mess.
Please, more feedback.
good game |
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.26 07:37:00 -
[13]
Hello everyone. My name is Kuolematon and I kill for killmails .. nubships, shuttles.. everything goes. I have tried to stay clean but I always fail. Once I was clean for a week but then I took another podmail.
Please help me. 
Playing Caldari-Online as a Amarr specced is PURE Hardcore
I had a cool image here for 2 months but SOMETHING went wrong ... GRR
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hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.01.26 09:36:00 -
[14]
as far as player corps go id like to see things being user confirgurable specifically in a corp the corp CEO and directors and designated killmail recievers ( could be settable that all corp killmails are sent to thse ppl only) perhaps it could be set to be sent hourly or 12 hourly or 24 hourly) in batches so that as far as PVP outfits and merc corps go the player wouldnt be spammed and the CEO would only be spammed once every 12 or 24 hours with a bulk mail or designated corp reciever. On top of this this would allow killboards to be more accruate ( ie remove dodgy killmails and or restrict posting on killboards to fewer peeps) this would also apply to kill losses allowing larger PVP outfits to really see what the results of war are
Just a side idea something CCP should consider
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Moraguth
Amarr
Rangers
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Posted - 2007.01.27 04:01:00 -
[15]
In this thread over here they suggest an idea for an eve-run kill board. Thus removing kill mails from your mailbox. I suggested each player have the option to turn on kill statistics from ships he kills, and to turn on death statistics for when he dies. Would at least make people more accountable for all those kill mails they collect (cause you'd be able to see if they allow their deaths to show or not, or something like that)
good game |
Arain
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Posted - 2007.01.28 03:41:00 -
[16]
Your right I suspect it is in a large part responseable for some of the senseless killing that goes on. It would not surprise me if the removal of killmails from the game might reduce some of the griefing that goes on. I have always loved the PvP fans who claim how much more fun it is to go up against another person rather then PvE mobs because its more challenging but if you look at thier kills you notice its mostly shuttles, trucks and frigates. Really dangerous to go up against that unarmed shuttle.
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2007.01.28 03:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Yep, I agree. Killmail hogging breeds FPS style mentality. It's annoying, and isn't in the spirit of the game.
Killing in eve should be meaningful, either as a means of finance or of security. Not of seeing how high you can get on a killboard.
And just who the hell are you to dictate what is the spirit of the game?
REALLY!
Who the **** are you?  'killing in eve should be meaningful'? Yeah.... ppl like you give eve a bad name. "meaningful" i love it!
Its a game. Some ppl like to play the bad guy, some the good. I am not a pirate, but i appreciate what and why pirates do what they do.
So, maybe take some advise from your own sig. Your a dumbass, your have a strawman argument and are making assumptions on other's peoples playstyle (not only that your trying to dictate why they should play to begin with).
And yes, this does make you a noob.
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Stitcher
Caldari
J.I.T. Enterprises
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.28 04:02:00 -
[18]
If people get too obsessed about collecting kill mails, that's THEIR problem. The killmail itself is blameless.
just my 0.02 ISK 
***
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Bellicus
Suffoco Noctis
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.28 04:20:00 -
[19]
I like kill mails and kill boards not for bragging rights but because I can look back on them and see what that person flew and how he fitted his ship. But then again I am fan of pointless killing so my opinion is biased.
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CrestoftheStars
Deviance Inc
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Posted - 2007.01.28 04:35:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Karille
Kill mails aren't just a toy to give people something to brag about. They let you know how much monetary loss you've inflicted on your opponent. The load of a hauler you kill might give clues that the person you kill might have to be back later with another load of POS fuel, or if that hauler was trying to bring reinforcement equipment to a badly cut off force. In the case of Mercenary Coalition it is a good tool to let our clients know if they're getting their money's worth from our services.
i will disagree, because this could be seen just by checking the wrack and you would know just as much as the killmail tells you, and by this you would be forced to kill for a reason, instead of just killing and then warping of smiling about your killmail..
i don't really see a reason for the attacking player to get a mail where it say's how many he have killed... seems kind of dum to me...
+ if there was no killmail people would start doing the pvp to get a reputation and you do not get that by beeing an ******* (because there is already TOO many of them to keep track in eve), so people would start to fight pvp more fairly or even against the odds to get the rep...
well i think removing the killmails would be a good thing all along
___________________________________________
come on..
stop thinking about YOU.
and start thinking about All of us... how do we get a more fun and enjoyable game for all of us. |
lusifar
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Posted - 2007.01.28 04:38:00 -
[21]
Originally by: HankMurphy
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Yep, I agree. Killmail hogging breeds FPS style mentality. It's annoying, and isn't in the spirit of the game.
Killing in eve should be meaningful, either as a means of finance or of security. Not of seeing how high you can get on a killboard.
And just who the hell are you to dictate what is the spirit of the game?
REALLY!
Who the **** are you? 'killing in eve should be meaningful'? Yeah.... ppl like you give eve a bad name. "meaningful" i love it!
Its a game. Some ppl like to play the bad guy, some the good. I am not a pirate, but i appreciate what and why pirates do what they do.
So, maybe take some advise from your own sig. Your a dumbass, your have a strawman argument and are making assumptions on other's peoples playstyle (not only that your trying to dictate why they should play to begin with).
And yes, this does make you a noob.
if you haven't even bothered by reading about eve etc, you shouldn't really claim your stupid statements... one more idiot to the pool of *******-online
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.01.28 07:38:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 28/01/2007 07:36:27
Originally by: lusifar
Originally by: HankMurphy
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Yep, I agree. Killmail hogging breeds FPS style mentality. It's annoying, and isn't in the spirit of the game.
Killing in eve should be meaningful, either as a means of finance or of security. Not of seeing how high you can get on a killboard.
And just who the hell are you to dictate what is the spirit of the game?
REALLY!
Who the **** are you? 'killing in eve should be meaningful'? Yeah.... ppl like you give eve a bad name. "meaningful" i love it!
Its a game. Some ppl like to play the bad guy, some the good. I am not a pirate, but i appreciate what and why pirates do what they do.
So, maybe take some advise from your own sig. Your a dumbass, your have a strawman argument and are making assumptions on other's peoples playstyle (not only that your trying to dictate why they should play to begin with).
And yes, this does make you a noob.
if you haven't even bothered by reading about eve etc, you shouldn't really claim your stupid statements... one more idiot to the pool of *******-online
Hank is one of the more experienced players in the game, and his opinion is respected (if a bit aggressive on this point). I have to agree, your assertions about the "spirit of the game" are a bit over the top.
PVP is a strong element in this game, and I do feel that CCP should consider providing an accurate feed that killboards could plug into if a corp or alliance wishes or needs to track them. Many merc corps depend on accurate KM results, many merc employers do as well. Accurate statistics for battles are a pretty common part of any game that includes a combat element. PVP may not be your cup of tea, but it is for a sizable portion of the player base, and is a cruicial element of the game... soon to be even more so with Factional warfare, medals, etc.
Killmails are no more or less important that the stats you use for a fantasy football league.
Its a game.
Get a grip.
And yes Moraguth... my only begotten son, I "can" beat up his dad. And I have the Killmails to prove it. 
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.01.28 08:10:00 -
[23]
Killmails cause lag...that alone is enough reason to kill them.
The other points are good too.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One."
Corp/Alliance Services |
Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.01.28 08:16:00 -
[24]
I should have included the thought that the actual mails themselves should probably go away due to lag. But an accurate feed should replace it that can be accessed by corporate or alliance killboards.
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Alain Deloen
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Posted - 2007.01.28 13:17:00 -
[25]
some global news about who killed who (maybe in form of an eve-wide killboard) would get PvP'ers together as soon as they look for a specific guy that just screwed someone ^^
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Nerogk Shorn
Caldari
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2007.01.28 17:53:00 -
[26]
OMG, if Arma saw you posting this...
I dunno it might work, I kill stuff to get the killmails sometimes and when my buddies get more than I do, I feel like I have to go out and show them that they are really noobs.
<3
D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S |
Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.01.29 04:31:00 -
[27]
Coming from DAOC where that game's PvP is "one big killboard" considering kills are rewarded with "realm points" and most all other stats in PvP are recorded, categorized and ranked on one out of game board, i can see the bad side and good sides.
However, I have to agree with the OP because EvE is a much more goal oriented driven game where destroying the enemies ships shouldn't be the all important, end all goal.
I am not saying pvp and combat fighting aren't important but they are only one part of EvE and some of the most successful players in this game have never fired a shot from a ship so player's "status" shouldn't be summed up with a kill board or stats.
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Verone
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.29 04:41:00 -
[28]
Wouldn't bother me either way.
I play Eve for the enjoyment, not to shake my wang about how many kills I make.
In reflection, that's probably why I think gatecamping/gatesniping is so lame.
NEWEST MOVIE : VETO FOR HIRE
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Destr0math
Tritanium Workers Union
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Posted - 2007.01.29 05:05:00 -
[29]
Originally by: CrestoftheStars
]i will disagree, because this could be seen just by checking the wrack and you would know just as much as the killmail tells you, and by this you would be forced to kill for a reason, instead of just killing and then warping of smiling about your killmail..
i don't really see a reason for the attacking player to get a mail where it say's how many he have killed... seems kind of dum to me...
+ if there was no killmail people would start doing the pvp to get a reputation and you do not get that by beeing an ******* (because there is already TOO many of them to keep track in eve), so people would start to fight pvp more fairly or even against the odds to get the rep...
well i think removing the killmails would be a good thing all along
Yeah. Except that when ships blow up it seems that any good loot to be found is blown up. Looking at the killmail is the only way you can see what, in fact, you DID blow up. The wreck only has what survived, so...no.
And no, there are many reasons to PVP in this game. Profit (omg!) being number one for many people. Taking out the killmail from the haulers I kill will really not decrease the amount i try to kill them...no body takes too much pride from popping an indy, they take the loot.
Killmails just give you an insight into what the other guy had fit, see what he did better/worse than you. It's also nice to have a record of when and what you killed, and when you are killed.
The rep thing- yes, people get a rep for fighting, but that fame does not spread too far without some way to prove it - "proof or STFU" shows up in all too many forum threads, and many of the most famous pvpers / pirates are famous not because the huge number of people that they kill, but instead because of forum posts, killboards, and FRAPS'd encounters.
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Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.01.29 05:52:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Destr0math
Originally by: CrestoftheStars
]i will disagree, because this could be seen just by checking the wrack and you would know just as much as the killmail tells you, and by this you would be forced to kill for a reason, instead of just killing and then warping of smiling about your killmail..
i don't really see a reason for the attacking player to get a mail where it say's how many he have killed... seems kind of dum to me...
+ if there was no killmail people would start doing the pvp to get a reputation and you do not get that by beeing an ******* (because there is already TOO many of them to keep track in eve), so people would start to fight pvp more fairly or even against the odds to get the rep...
well i think removing the killmails would be a good thing all along
Yeah. Except that when ships blow up it seems that any good loot to be found is blown up. Looking at the killmail is the only way you can see what, in fact, you DID blow up. The wreck only has what survived, so...no.
And no, there are many reasons to PVP in this game. Profit (omg!) being number one for many people. Taking out the killmail from the haulers I kill will really not decrease the amount i try to kill them...no body takes too much pride from popping an indy, they take the loot.
Killmails just give you an insight into what the other guy had fit, see what he did better/worse than you. It's also nice to have a record of when and what you killed, and when you are killed.
The rep thing- yes, people get a rep for fighting, but that fame does not spread too far without some way to prove it - "proof or STFU" shows up in all too many forum threads, and many of the most famous pvpers / pirates are famous not because the huge number of people that they kill, but instead because of forum posts, killboards, and FRAPS'd encounters.
Who are these "famous" pirates that you speak of? The only one ive heard of is that Lofty guy and that is only because there have been a lot of whine posts about his extreme ganking tactics.
This game is simply not designed for flaunting individual accomplishments unless your idea of being famous is posting on this board a lot. EvE is geared more towards groups of people, corps and alliances. For example: Everyone knows what BoB is but I don't know one pilot in BoB or really care.
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