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Clones, where's the danger of death?

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Uuldahan	Posted - 2003.12.08 01:39:00 - [1] Edited by: Uuldahan on 08/12/2003 01:42:05 Sorry to ask this is probably a dumb question. I'm new, I've been in Eve for 10 days now. I have an Iteron, an Imicus, a Tristan and around 4M isk gained with both mine and trade. Where's the risk to die ?? With my 160k skill points I have to pay 4000 for a "D" clone. But what's 4000, it's nothing . Is there Anything else I loose and am missing ? If not, I'm really not afraid of being trapped by pirates or something else in my frigates
Rasta Rocketman	Posted - 2003.12.08 01:41:00 - [2] Only playing for 10 days and you've already earned 4 mill?!? wow. I must've done something horribly wrong. _______________________________________________ "I spilled spot remover on my dog....now he's gone." -Steven Wright
Victoria Madison	Posted - 2003.12.08 01:47:00 - [3] Go stick around 38 million in implants in your head...then ask this question again.
Uuldahan	Posted - 2003.12.08 02:00:00 - [4] Edited by: Uuldahan on 08/12/2003 02:00:21 Yes, perhaps death is more scary at your lvl. That's a good news. But for a noob I assure that death is no fear, and I think it will be for a long time
Fetty Chico	Posted - 2003.12.08 02:16:00 - [5] wait till ya 12 mill and clone is 6 mill ------------------------------------------------ Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly - the ill deeds, along with the good - and let me be judged accordingly. If this world was supposed to be friendly CCP wouldnt have wasted time paying the devs to code so many weapons
GeoNoSiS	Posted - 2003.12.08 02:16:00 - [6] Also, wait until you hit 3mil skill points and the clone costs 500k, not much.. but still 500k ----------------------------------------------- (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world
GeoNoSiS	Posted - 2003.12.08 02:36:00 - [7] ----------------------------------------------- (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world
Akunosh Ryo	Posted - 2003.12.08 02:41:00 - [8] Clones are the one reason I had to end my little "freedom fighting' stage in my EVE life. A once retired pilot, now, once again helping those that fight the good fight.
Uuldahan	Posted - 2003.12.08 02:41:00 - [9] But how much time does it take to have 3M skill points, 3 months? Eh as a noob I need to be afraid of something in this empty space , pleeeaaaase CCP scare me !
Ariell Lucinwind	Posted - 2003.12.08 02:58:00 - [10] Quote: But how much time does it take to have 3M skill points, 3 months? Eh as a noob I need to be afraid of something in this empty space , pleeeaaaase CCP scare me ! Fear ? Whats there to fear ? Think about it from another game experience. IE - Everquest (Sorry to bring it up all). In Everquest, at level 1 to 5 you have nothing to fear, you have very little punishment if you die and if you do die some where terrible, some one higher up in level can get your corpse back. This same analogy (may) can apply to EVE-online. At low levels your ship can be lost and rebought quite easily. I would honestly **** my pants right now if I die cause of my skills and the modules on my ship, the ship itself is just a shell for my tools. You on the other hand have the money but nothing to really lose. You dont have high skills and the penalty isn't enough to count for much. Plus I don't believe CCP is investing a "High risk factor" into the skills/clones because if we did have a high toll on our clones/skill lose. No one would PvP or do anything risky. Thats just my opinion. <<HuGs>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Came back cause I love you guys :P
Fetty Chico	Posted - 2003.12.08 03:00:00 - [11] I fear nothin I get popped, Im back on the streets in under 15 mins ------------------------------------------------ Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly - the ill deeds, along with the good - and let me be judged accordingly. If this world was supposed to be friendly CCP wouldnt have wasted time paying the devs to code so many weapons
svetlana	Posted - 2003.12.08 03:41:00 - [12] If you honestly want to be 'scared', then you should play the same as most other new players, spend every last isk you have on a new shiny cruiser and have none left over for insurance;) then go try to mine in 0.0 space to get the best ore, or fight or whatever you prefer. since you have just put everything on the line in order to attempt to maximize your mining/profit ability, you will have a very different perspective as you play. every little blip an the scanner will make you jump outta your seat and prepare to escape or fight. imho it is wise of CCP to make low-level clones inexpensive for new players because the loss of a ship for a newb is costly enough without compounding it with clone costs. EVE needs new players to survive, and already too many new players will quit because the penalty for dying is a price they cannot afford to recover from. Uuldahan you have done very well for 10 days, but for many new players at your point, if they lost their ship they would have lost their ability to make isk as well- so they would have to essentially start the game over- which can be very distressing. Everyone can play EVE at the danger level they choose. if you want more fear, then spend your safety money on a better ship (one that you cannot easily replace)and try to do your business outside empire space. Once you try that, eve becomes the biggest adrenalyn rush of any game ever made. -svet
Earthan	Posted - 2003.12.08 04:27:00 - [13] Quote: Edited by: Uuldahan on 08/12/2003 01:42:05 Sorry to ask this is probably a dumb question. I'm new, I've been in Eve for 10 days now. I have an Iteron, an Imicus, a Tristan and around 4M isk gained with both mine and trade. Where's the risk to die ?? With my 160k skill points I have to pay 4000 for a "D" clone. But what's 4000, it's nothing . Is there Anything else I loose and am missing ? If not, I'm really not afraid of being trapped by pirates or something else in my frigates Teh truth is at your level loosing your main ship should be scary.You got 4 milions right?So propably a cruiser...Loosing one is a loss of 3-5 miliions. If you pay for insurance its still or you spend to much on insurance or you dont recover all of your money. Then comes expensice rare modules, expensive clones, expensive implants... Usually poeple complain dying in Eve is much to terrifiying , you are the first one to feel the opposite Last time i was in a fight and was in dire straits i swaer my hands started to shake Stars, stars like dust, all around me....
Uuldahan	Posted - 2003.12.08 04:43:00 - [14] Edited by: Uuldahan on 08/12/2003 04:54:08 I've played a lot EQ. It really doesn't take a very long time to be lvl 6. After that stage, and having learn the basics of the game the EQ rules apply to your character and when you die the lost of XP just tells you to be carefull the next time. What it brings is excitment and that is why EQ really achieves something in his gameplay. Having passed this learning period in EVE (I was in Beta) I'm just wondering where's the excitment in this game and I'm already thinking after less than 2 weeks that all that can add some adrenaline rushes is a plus for the fun. I've just done some fights todays against NPC pirates in 0.4 in my tristan to do something else that trade-mine: it's too easy, and even if you loose what's the problem, you loose nothing. loose = not loose huh? Too easy + not loose anything if death = not fun. That said I've faith in EVE, it's the begining and I want to discover things in this game but I just hope exciting things will come fast. And when I see prices for clones that are around 100k for months of skill training. I'm just a little afraid. Oh sorry I was wrong I'm afraid of something updated: Yes you're right, I should go for a cruiser. It seems in this game that everyting from objects and ships to fun moments is created by each players. All content ? Good idea but not so easy to apprehend. (and sorry for my poor english )
Sire Vega	Posted - 2003.12.08 05:04:00 - [15] Join a Corp. You will have a much better time. I personally LOVE my corp and my corp buddies. They make this game crazy fun. Lotsa cool and fun things come from corps IMO. So mabye try that :) Happy traveling!!!
Archemedes	Posted - 2003.12.08 08:00:00 - [16] Let's see... if I were to get podded in my current ship, the cost would be: Apocalypse battleship: 100 million ISK Modules: 20-30 million ISK Insurance on new Apocalypse: 35 million ISK New clone: 4 million ISK New implants: 20 million ISK Insurance payout: 130 million or so. That leaves me with about 50 million ISK down the drain even carrying platinum insurance. That is NOT a small investment... even in a battleship I'd need a week to make 50 mil (unless I just sat and mindlessly chain-farmed mobs for hours on end, in which case it would just SEEM like a week). If I rigged for PVP instead of NPC hunting, my module cost would be considerably higher, meaning even MORE time lost... The real risk in this game is PVP. There are lots of safe ways to make ISK, and even hunting the big NPCs is pretty safe now that I got a battleship (but it sure is a rush in an Omen cruiser!)... it's the pirates I watch out for. When an unknown ship warps into view in 0.0 space, there's always a rush of adreneline... is it a miner, another NPC hunter... or a pirate looking to add my modules to his loot collection? If it IS a pirate, do I run, or fight? (always an easy question before since I flew cruisers and indies, but now fighting back is an option) Bottom line, you'll be here about 3 months before you have the skills trained to do well in a battleship. During that time, save up ISK and (if you really like to fight) join a PVP corp as a cruiser pilot. For solo play, a battleship is required for any real PVP (other than piracy against industrials)... and training for one of those can't be rushed.
Othnark	Posted - 2003.12.08 08:25:00 - [17] Quote: Go stick around 38 million in implants in your head...then ask this question again. Ermmm how can you stick this many implants in? I thought you could only use 1 at a time... implants are not currently that expensive....? Am I missing something? -Othnark
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.12.08 08:41:00 - [18] "Where's the risk to die ?? With my 160k skill points I have to pay 4000 for a "D" clone. But what's 4000, it's nothing . Is there Anything else I loose and am missing ? If not, I'm really not afraid of being trapped by pirates or something else in my frigates " ... You want the extra risk, next time you get podded don't upgrade your clone but leave it at the basic level. Then you will have something extra to worry about. :s
NTRabbit	Posted - 2003.12.08 08:48:00 - [19] Quote: Ermmm how can you stick this many implants in? I thought you could only use 1 at a time... implants are not currently that expensive....? Am I missing something? Your character has 5 implant slots, one for each attribute type - means you can have one of every attribute raising implant plugged in at the same time. -------- #eve-online irc.stratics.com - Former official IRC channel (Legacy) #eve-online irc.coldfront.net - Official Unofficial IRC channel WE R 4TW!
Rickenbacker	Posted - 2003.12.08 08:54:00 - [20] I don't see anything wrong with making it easier for the newbies. Once you get some implants you'll appreciate the risk I'm sure :-).
Gan Ning	Posted - 2003.12.08 11:14:00 - [21] Edited by: Gan Ning on 08/12/2003 11:15:39 Quote: Go stick around 38 million in implants in your head...then ask this question again. Lol exactly. If you die, you gotta buy more implants. If you die you gotta get another clone which will cover your skillpoints because if you die again and don't have a good enough clone or forget to upgrade you'll loose skill points. Proper death in EVE would suck thats why we have clones. Imagine installing the game, then dieing with 5 mins of playing only never to come back; 'Game Over, please re-subscribe' LOL
Lord Guerdo	Posted - 2003.12.08 11:56:00 - [22] You want something to worry about, go to Aurohonen and pay Tenacha and Xpohoc a visit im sure they would welcome you with open guns... I mean c'mon, just think about it. What would make more sense then the 3 most hated alliances teaming up to lay waste to the people they all hate anyways? CA is already allied with PA, and TPS lies between the two alliances. Natural allies to be sure. But it's not just that, all but PA (and even some of them) have adopted a "stfu and die, or come and fight us, we don't give a **** what you think or do" philosophy, as well as a PvP Kill everyone not friend kind of mentality. These are the people in eve that kill or convert, the ones dedicated to the death of others, because history, circumstance, and the rest of eve have driven then to do so (except TPS, who are just cool ass pirates ).
Miso	Posted - 2003.12.08 11:59:00 - [23] Don't update your clone. -------------------------------------------- Dead
Lucre	Posted - 2003.12.08 12:10:00 - [24] Quote: Quote: Ermmm how can you stick this many implants in? I thought you could only use 1 at a time... implants are not currently that expensive....? Am I missing something? Your character has 5 implant slots, one for each attribute type - means you can have one of every attribute raising implant plugged in at the same time. Exactly. Int, Will and Mem at around 5 million each; Per at about 20? Cha at about 3? Might be able to shave a few millions but 38 wouldn't be impossible if needing to do it in a hurry. (And who likes wasting training time?)
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.12.08 13:02:00 - [25] If i get killed i lose generally a ship thats worth 110mil at this moment, and when i had all my implants i had over 30-50 implants, and the gear i use is only the best cuz with less i cant work. So if i lose my ship, i would lose 150-200mil. Considering i earn 10mil a day, this is 15-20 days work... Its a half month setback. Though, i dont fear it. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Scragg	Posted - 2003.12.08 15:07:00 - [26] Edited by: Scragg on 08/12/2003 15:08:14 Implants, rare ship modules, later when you get a respectable amout of skill points your clone will be expensive. Time to replace your ship and reoutfit. When you first start the game there is not much of a penalty for being killed. This is by design. It helps make learing the game a little less painfull. Later when you learn the ropes and get some decent skills and gear death hurts but you should not get killed often if you have leared your lessons when death was not much of a problem. Scragg, Tyrell Corporation Vice-Director Military Operations
Reptar	Posted - 2003.12.08 17:21:00 - [27] the first few times i was in pvp i was shaking all over but after about 5 kills u calm down, steady as a rock now. When ur in pvp u will feel the danger, i like it
Uuldahan	Posted - 2003.12.08 18:29:00 - [28] I think in Beta the clone system was perfectible but really better. You had to pay more for a better clone, that was logical. Here your clones are always perfect due to the low prices. At my low lvl I think the price for a perfect clone should be at least 10 times more. Here 4000 isk is totally nothing and don't give you the feeling that you have done a mistake somewhere in the game. And when I see that the price for 1.600k skill points clones are around 100k isk, it seems that cloning is just a feature added for the form. And like you all are saying, death is now painful only because of your ships and equipments. I thought that the concept of cloning was to choose a compromise between price and skills. This concept is dead. Ok ok but just tell me why? Instead of loosing days of skill points it could have been change to something less radical, like 5 hours - 10 hours - 15 hours something like that...? Are the changes due to too much whining on the forum or something? Why such a brutal change in the concept of clones? I've missed something during all these months.

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