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The death of Jita.

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Saki Archeus Caldari Boards.ie	Posted - 2007.01.27 11:49:00 - [1] Anyone any idea where the hub may move to? I'm in a nice quiet little system not far from Jita but far enough not to have to put up with the lag. :)
solidshot Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.01.27 11:56:00 - [2] Why would the changes mean the death of jita? anyone heading up from the south will only have to go via urlen->perimeter->jita now instead of via kisogo, a lot of people went this way anyway especially if they were carrying high value items to avoid the gank squads
Admai Sket	Posted - 2007.01.27 11:56:00 - [3] I just hope its SOON. And that's SOON with no TM after it. I got my sig snipped again. Can someone make me a new one?
Kiyano Caldari Star Fraction Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.27 11:58:00 - [4] The hub isn't going to move yet, not until the interbus perhaps.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.27 12:10:00 - [5] With some luck Urlen and other main route systems surrounding Jita can catch a bit more commerce this way. Imo tho, nothing is ever going to save Caldari space from being a lagfest, short of boosting other bloodlines to equality or greatly increasing the need for charisma for combat characters. The basic issue simply is that it's the biggest faction, with only one natural area for people to hub up within it's space. Amarr and Gallente space for example are so much better laid out to accomodate large amounts of players without pushing them all realtively close to eachother. It would have been much better imo if either of those races would have been the most popular from day 1. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.27 12:31:00 - [6] We won't see miners in jita anymore and less people travelling through it, but it's status as trade hub won't really get hurt. It is simply a too old hub for that - you would have to make it low sec or put it on the end of a 20 jump dead end for something to change there. If anything the changes will help jitas role as trading hub since it will remove a lot of lag from the system.
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.27 13:24:00 - [7] Originally by: Aramendel We won't see miners in jita anymore and less people travelling through it, but it's status as trade hub won't really get hurt. It is simply a too old hub for that - you would have to make it low sec or put it on the end of a 20 jump dead end for something to change there. If anything the changes will help jitas role as trading hub since it will remove a lot of lag from the system. coughYulaicough ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.01.27 13:30:00 - [8] Originally by: Nero Scuro Originally by: Aramendel We won't see miners in jita anymore and less people travelling through it, but it's status as trade hub won't really get hurt. It is simply a too old hub for that - you would have to make it low sec or put it on the end of a 20 jump dead end for something to change there. If anything the changes will help jitas role as trading hub since it will remove a lot of lag from the system. coughYulaicough Indeed. In its day yulai was proportionally far busier than jita now (less people around back then), but with a few jump route changes BAM! ghost town.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.01.27 13:35:00 - [9] once hubs are formed, adhesive forces make more elements join in on the fun. 90% of the people now come there just because it is jita. it will stay big on sell orders and contracts just because it is _the_ hub now. the kisogo snip doesn't change a thing (except for kisogo itself): traffic from northern 0.0 and lonetrek will still come via sobaseki. hi-sec-rens'n'hek, oursulaert and western citadel will now join the arrivals from the low-sec-rens'n'hek route in perimeter. motsu will be 3jumps from jita instead of 4 with that new connection between komo and muvolailen. i'm not sure how missions in motsu work; if they take place in komo often (which would render all these changes useless :o) rens, however, has been nerfed: heimatar has been stretched once more because of a school. and it lost another interregional connection which was only frequented by traders to check metro prices - for the same reasons. the "compensation" increases that distance from 1j to 3j, via the mission and trade route of frarn.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.27 14:19:00 - [10] Originally by: Nicholai Pestot Indeed. In its day yulai was proportionally far busier than jita now (less people around back then), but with a few jump route changes BAM! ghost town. They redesigned the whole highway system then, thats a bit different than changing one jump. Also, wasn't this combined with a major agent relocating move or am I confusing things now?

Marquis Dean Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.01.27 14:22:00 - [11] I for one am not entirely for the change. Granted, lag = bad, and I can say all of this because I rarely go near Jita, but I think the removal of belts and schools is damaging the atmosphere of the game. As it was pre-Revelations, with no Warp To 0, major hubs such as Jita, Oursulaert and Amarr had a 'city center' feel to them, lots of people living and working in various ways, from 2 hour old kids mining that Veld to 3 year vets shopping for gear, and since everyone had a 15km distance to cross, you could sit at a gate and watch everyone coming and going. Then WTZ arrived and all I ever see in Ours is gatecamps on the gates and people warping into the station, it kinda lost it's image of people coming and going about their business. If CCP removes the belts on those systems listed in the patch notes, I think it might harm the 'experience' i'm talking about even more. Jita will exist purely for the station at Jita 4-4 so people can hurtle in, buy stuff, hurtle out and it will feel like... well I dunno. But you know what I mean. But with the lag I guess a move like this was inevitable. And like I said, I don't frequent Jita, so I don't know how bad the lag is. ------ ------ Originally by: Crag Heyder I'm not talking FPS here, it's SPF.
Baelor Targaryen Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.01.27 14:43:00 - [12] Originally by: Aramendel We won't see miners in jita anymore and less people travelling through it, but it's status as trade hub won't really get hurt. It is simply a too old hub for that - you would have to make it low sec or put it on the end of a 20 jump dead end for something to change there. Selling Glowing Bright Stone at second torch!
Neuromandis	Posted - 2007.01.27 14:48:00 - [13] Originally by: Marquis Dean I for one am not entirely for the change. Granted, lag = bad, and I can say all of this because I rarely go near Jita, but I think the removal of belts and schools is damaging the atmosphere of the game. As it was pre-Revelations, with no Warp To 0, major hubs such as Jita, Oursulaert and Amarr had a 'city center' feel to them, lots of people living and working in various ways, from 2 hour old kids mining that Veld to 3 year vets shopping for gear, and since everyone had a 15km distance to cross, you could sit at a gate and watch everyone coming and going. Then WTZ arrived and all I ever see in Ours is gatecamps on the gates and people warping into the station, it kinda lost it's image of people coming and going about their business. If CCP removes the belts on those systems listed in the patch notes, I think it might harm the 'experience' i'm talking about even more. Jita will exist purely for the station at Jita 4-4 so people can hurtle in, buy stuff, hurtle out and it will feel like... well I dunno. But you know what I mean. But with the lag I guess a move like this was inevitable. And like I said, I don't frequent Jita, so I don't know how bad the lag is. You know, this actually makes sense... Oh well, on the other hand, the lag had gotten TOO bad...
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.01.27 15:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Baelor Targaryen Originally by: Aramendel We won't see miners in jita anymore and less people travelling through it, but it's status as trade hub won't really get hurt. It is simply a too old hub for that - you would have to make it low sec or put it on the end of a 20 jump dead end for something to change there. Selling Glowing Bright Stone at second torch! EC Tunnel ftw.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.01.27 15:23:00 - [15] Edited by: Plutoinum on 27/01/2007 15:19:29 Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Nicholai Pestot Indeed. In its day yulai was proportionally far busier than jita now (less people around back then), but with a few jump route changes BAM! ghost town. They redesigned the whole highway system then, thats a bit different than changing one jump. Also, wasn't this combined with a major agent relocating move or am I confusing things now? Dunno, was at least only a few jumps from everything. After the change it took maybe two weeks and Yulai was down from 400 to 50 or so. Well, if they had not changed the highways, Yulai would probably have like 2000 players on a weekend now. Or more realistic: The node crashes would keep the numbers below 1000 and would also kill the high-way travel between the empires there. ______________ Originally by: Patch86 Combat in EVE is non-consensual. Unlike most games, EVE, by design, forces you to be ready for violence everywhere-even hi-sec space.
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.01.27 15:37:00 - [16] Edited by: Humpalot on 27/01/2007 15:34:21 While nerfing Jita to some extent is a good thing (leaving Jita 4-4 in a freighter is just beyond painful) I wonder how much it will help in the long run? The thing being that players will naturally seek to create a trade hub. People dislike having to jump to five different systems making 20 jumps to fit their ship. If they can stop in one system and find all they need so much the better. Not to mention that competition naturally despresses prices in such an environment making it better for buyers. I think it would be better for CCP to implement a dynamic taxing system for sellers. The busier a trading center becomes the more it costs to put items up for sale. You see this in real life...think of the big malls where rent would be higher to the merchant than if they sold in a 5-store strip mall 10 miles away. I think that would more effectively get people to spread around a bit. A one stop shop would be nice but as a buyer you would end up paying for that with higher prices. The buyer chooses whether to run around looking for deals or not.
Vir Hellnamin Minmatar Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.01.27 15:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Nicholai Pestot coughYulaicough Indeed. In its day yulai was proportionally far busier than jita now (less people around back then), but with a few jump route changes BAM! ghost town. Hmm.. now Jita route will get two jumps more from the South side of the galaxy? Do you recall what happened to Yulai when the Cold War came? Highways died, i.e.: the route from Lustrevik (one jump from Pator, 4 from Rens) grew from one (1) jump to 10+. Get real. -- V.H.
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.01.27 15:50:00 - [18] bring back yulai. It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Vir Hellnamin Minmatar Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.01.27 15:57:00 - [19] Good point. Did the removal of Highways actually help in anyway? If Jita dies, another one will be born in matter of days (and lags back again). -- V.H.
RtoZ	Posted - 2007.01.27 16:17:00 - [20] I'd like to see CCP make a dedicated hub system, neutral space, slap bang in the middle of the map. It would house one huge trade station, a new model. This system would have no belts and multiple gates from the four racial regions. It would run on it's own node, or two or three, and would be the trade capital for the whole game. Corporation slots would be at a premium, as would be industry. It would also house a university and each eve corporation would have an office there. It would have a security rating of 2.0, meaning that all weopons would be deactivated before entrance. Prostitutes would be cheap and plentifull. Reuters would have an office. A character can dream, can't she?

Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.01.27 17:14:00 - [21] Edited by: Ramblin Man on 27/01/2007 17:11:11 Originally by: Humpalot While nerfing Jita to some extent is a good thing (leaving Jita 4-4 in a freighter is just beyond painful) I wonder how much it will help in the long run? The thing being that players will naturally seek to create a trade hub. People dislike having to jump to five different systems making 20 jumps to fit their ship. If they can stop in one system and find all they need so much the better. Not to mention that competition naturally despresses prices in such an environment making it better for buyers. I think it would be better for CCP to implement a dynamic taxing system for sellers... You were doing so well before you went wrong! Trade hubs form because of underlying game mechanics that promote them - centeralized fitting, ease of access, region-independent ~~escrow~~contracts, sufficient volume to establish fair market value. You can keep changing gates ad infinitum, but that's treating the symptoms.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.27 18:58:00 - [22] Originally by: Ramblin Man Edited by: Ramblin Man on 27/01/2007 17:11:11 Originally by: Humpalot While nerfing Jita to some extent is a good thing (leaving Jita 4-4 in a freighter is just beyond painful) I wonder how much it will help in the long run? The thing being that players will naturally seek to create a trade hub. People dislike having to jump to five different systems making 20 jumps to fit their ship. If they can stop in one system and find all they need so much the better. Not to mention that competition naturally despresses prices in such an environment making it better for buyers. I think it would be better for CCP to implement a dynamic taxing system for sellers... You were doing so well before you went wrong! Trade hubs form because of underlying game mechanics that promote them - centeralized fitting, ease of access, region-independent ~~escrow~~contracts, sufficient volume to establish fair market value. You can keep changing gates ad infinitum, but that's treating the symptoms. I've gotta say, I agree with the first guy. If theres a place with 20 people and "X" buy / sell orders, or another system with 30 people and "X+Y" orders, I'm always going to sell my stuff in the system with more people and commerce, as I know thats where the business is. And when I buy a ship, I'm going to buy all the modules for it as close to the original system as possible- so if all the modules I need are for sale in the same system, OR somewhere else for slightly cheaper, I'm going to pay more for the convenience. The ONLY game mechanic that is to blame for hubs is the need to travel in order to collect things you've bought- and this is never going to change, as it would destroy the entire "trader" profession otherwise. Interbus seems to be an attempt to change this without actually changing it, but I dunno, we'll have to see how it works out. I'm sceptical. -----------------------------------------------
Bryg Philomena Green Lantern Corps	Posted - 2007.01.27 19:13:00 - [23] I wanna say, with the lag in jita, I can't stand getting war decced, I go there to buy a new ship, fit it, undock, before the screen loads I am in a pod.. It is difficult to get back, then you dock, and repeat. Problem without a fix? nah, set jita as 1.0 space and make it so war decs aren't able to be fought upon in 1.0 systems. Jita's trade hub can never die, it's simply where people go to sell their goods, because a market is there. But the idea its all in one station where people at war can sit, because they know they can get people there.. is a little annoying. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=465618
Suliban Silk Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.01.27 19:20:00 - [24] Good riddance
NotNowKato Gallente Mitsukashi Holdings Limited Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.01.27 19:21:00 - [25] Yeah wont be missed Originally by: Shirow Miyazaki I'm beginning to agree with the opinion of the forum, that shakespeare captured in 1597 in the start of Richard III: "Now is the winter of our gimped content"
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.27 19:33:00 - [26] Originally by: Ramblin Man Edited by: Ramblin Man on 27/01/2007 17:11:11 Originally by: Humpalot While nerfing Jita to some extent is a good thing (leaving Jita 4-4 in a freighter is just beyond painful) I wonder how much it will help in the long run? The thing being that players will naturally seek to create a trade hub. People dislike having to jump to five different systems making 20 jumps to fit their ship. If they can stop in one system and find all they need so much the better. Not to mention that competition naturally despresses prices in such an environment making it better for buyers. I think it would be better for CCP to implement a dynamic taxing system for sellers... You were doing so well before you went wrong! Trade hubs form because of underlying game mechanics that promote them - centeralized fitting, ease of access, region-independent ~~escrow~~contracts, sufficient volume to establish fair market value. You can keep changing gates ad infinitum, but that's treating the symptoms. I'm sorry but that's bullshit. Humans will always congregate in blobs to conduct their business - it's a matter of convenience. Why do you think there exist cities in RL? --------------------------------------------------------------------
Morium Blue Order of the Lost Souls	Posted - 2007.01.27 20:05:00 - [27] Taking the girlfriend to Ikea Getting the rush hour train to london to see the dentist Knowing the best price for something is in Jita and knowing I have to go and play bump-a-thon there in a hauler These things are all equivalent. And I have to say, going to Jita is not necessarily the most enticing thing to do in Eve. HOWEVER. For a game that's mostly just black voids linked by star gates, Eve has an enormous sense of place. You really come to care about the systems you fight for, come to hate the systems you get ganked in, etc. etc. And Jita, for all it's flaws, does have an enormous sense of place. Right down to the ridiculous bumping outside Moon 4's station, it is in every way the smog-filled, hustle bustle pantheon that you'd expect a galactic trading hub to be. Even on the way out your juicy haulers are eyed hungrily by cargo-scanning scouts for gank squads. So despite the lag and despite my inevitable irritation the next time some Obelisk rear-ends my hauler while undocking, Jita is a valuable part of the Eve experience. What makes it all the more impressive is that it's totally user-created. CCP didn't really make Jita any more important than any other system there - the natural need for mass groups of people to congregate centrally and make trade (and ill will) simply came to the fore. In that regard it's all the more impressive and a good example of how Eve's 'landmarks' are genuine as opposed to a programmer just clicking 'Insert Landmark' on a map-maker. For these reasons I'd hate to see Jita go. Moreover, since we all know Jita won't go, it's a little cruel making everyone fly in circles to get in (though I can understand CCP's desire to reduce the lag). Still, it's like making an orderly queue for a taxi in Bombay...
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.01.27 20:26:00 - [28] Sounds like some smart sellers could divert some stock to Kisogo and corner the Southern market.. KALI:Revelations.. The **znit.. ( FFS ****znit is blocked?! Quit using Babelfish for a blocked word filter engine CCP.. :-p )
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.01.27 20:58:00 - [29] Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 27/01/2007 20:56:12 Originally by: Vir Hellnamin Hmm.. now Jita route will get two jumps more from the South side of the galaxy? nope rens/hek low-sec route - no change (iyen-ousta->perimeter->jita) oursulaert/amarr/tash, rens/hek/dodixie/ hi-sec route - no change (urlen->perimeter->jita) lonetrek and northern 0.0 - no change (sobaseki->jita) motsu - one jump less (motsu->komo->muvolailen->jita)
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.01.27 21:04:00 - [30] ok so maybe not corner the southern market.. KALI:Revelations.. The **znit.. ( FFS ****znit is blocked?! Quit using Babelfish for a blocked word filter engine CCP.. :-p )



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