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Allegations of Dev Misconduct

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 14 post(s)
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:32:00 - [1] Originally by: Razor Jaxx Now they must decide whether they want to make a living with this game, or play it. Simple. The answer to that is "shut it down". There is no reasonable way to run a system as complex as Eve without first hand experience of how its working. It's not reasonable to expect devs not to play their own game, and in fact devs not playing their own game leads to disasters like some of the Everquest grinds. I thought you were better than to fall for Something Awful propaganda. //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:07:00 - [2] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2007 20:05:02 Razor, The game is not played on singularity. System testing is not the same as actually playing the game. Second hand experience is not experience itself. I'd be shocked if a major corp CEO was a dev. Anyone else, I really couldn't care less. CCP would have a lot more to worry about in terms of public perception if they did NOT play their own game. As I said, it's been seen in action and the results are very very rarely pretty. There is no substitute in making ANY game for getting down and dirty in a play session. This goes twice for something like a MMO where there are so many subjective factors to enjoyment. The gaming press are going to run with it, of course. But they'd run with a "they don't play" story as well, and in the end Eve would suffer for the devs not playing. This is a particular issue for CCP because they have a single world. I know in a certain smaller MMO the devs deliverately scattered themselves across servers and n more than two in any single clan. And it does depend, in frex Iron Realm's MMOs there is quite a bit of GM work related to PvP (and it's how it's allways worked there). Aertuun, if you want a poorer quality of fixes and improved for 0.0 alliances, sure. Hearing "oh it was slightly laggy tonight" is no substitute for seeing the effects of that lag first hand. There is certainly action needed if these rumours are false. Legal action for defamation against the instigators. //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:07:00 - [3] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2007 20:05:02 Razor, The game is not played on singularity. System testing is not the same as actually playing the game. Second hand experience is not experience itself. I'd be shocked if a major corp CEO was a dev. Anyone else, I really couldn't care less. CCP would have a lot more to worry about in terms of public perception if they did NOT play their own game. As I said, it's been seen in action and the results are very very rarely pretty. There is no substitute in making ANY game for getting down and dirty in a play session. This goes twice for something like a MMO where there are so many subjective factors to enjoyment. The gaming press are going to run with it, of course. But they'd run with a "they don't play" story as well, and in the end Eve would suffer for the devs not playing. This is a particular issue for CCP because they have a single world. I know in a certain smaller MMO the devs deliverately scattered themselves across servers and n more than two in any single clan. And it does depend, in frex Iron Realm's MMOs there is quite a bit of GM work related to PvP (and it's how it's allways worked there). Aertuun, if you want a poorer quality of fixes and improved for 0.0 alliances, sure. Hearing "oh it was slightly laggy tonight" is no substitute for seeing the effects of that lag first hand. There is certainly action needed if these rumours are false. Legal action for defamation against the instigators. //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:22:00 - [4] Then provide the answers, and the tools. ... Waiting! //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:22:00 - [5] Then provide the answers, and the tools. ... Waiting! //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:29:00 - [6] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2007 20:26:57 Originally by: Razor Jaxx I see your point, Maya. Maybe there are some satisfactory solutions that can be found, ones that will squelch speculation while allowing employees to keep playing on TQ and thus stay in touch with the game, and keep on improving it. Some form of control, maybe? Or restrictions of sorts? I just don't believe any kind of statu quo will do any good. Elablorate restrictions and controls will throw off the experience and destroy much of why its worthwhile in the first place. I don't believe for a second that dev play accounts are not monitored, incidentally. Also, if there was that sort of thing, they're going to start losing many of their best employees (or at the least, discouraging applications from some of), the ones who loveplaying Eve and have a feel for the game and what it needs. That's a slippery slope. //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Aertuun Originally by: Maya Rkell Then provide the answers, and the tools. ... Waiting! Provide some specific examples of situations that a dev would need first-hand experience of in order to fully appreciate/fix/improve. Am happy to provide answers/solutions. So far we've had lots of vague generalisations thrown about. Yes, and "it's possible to go against the entireity of software testing standards" is your generalisation. You're the one suggesting CCP adopt radical new working methods, now start talking details. //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:05:00 - [8] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2007 21:03:20 Prydeless, lots of baseless "evidence", yes. Unless you happen to have solid evidence otherwise. The person claims to have hacked the data. This makes everything he posts forevermore suspect, regardless of the actual source. If you want to take the word of someone that like unaided, I have this bridge I'm selling.. Gungankllr, regardless of the outcome, the origional poster of this should be permabanned from the game because of the way he's breached the EULA. There should NOT be discrimination, and it's quite clear per the EULA and TOS that the right way to do this is private contact. //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:08:00 - [9] Malachon Draco, given who the commentators are, that's plain FUNNY. //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:24:00 - [10] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2007 21:23:01 Malachon Draco, okay. Five times recurring bounty for 5 mil on your corpse. Killmails and FRAPS required. Witch hunts4tw and such. Qu'ut Nez, so again you're taking the words of a self-admited hacker as evidence without any material proof whatsoever? You might want to reconsider that. The fact of the matter is that calling people liers in that matter is simply bias. (and please, accuse me of pro-BoB bias. I need a laugh!) j0sephine, it's my understanding that DAOC devs can. //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:27:00 - [11] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2007 21:24:18 Helganstandt, how do you know CCP don't run spot checks, etc? Proof plz. And yes, you want to kill off Eve in the longer run by stopping the devs from playing and disconnecting them from the game, as well as costing CCP staff. We know. //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:29:00 - [12] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2007 21:26:22 Malachon Draco, ANY reaction by BoB would convince you "it was true". They had devs. That is true. The bias is simply unproven, and you are trying to weave hearsay from someone who is a self-admitted hacker...well, I wonder precisely what relationship you have with him yourself, since you're taking his word for granted. (Hm...I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time I've put a bounty on your head...) //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:45:00 - [13] Helganstandt, so you're working off hearsay. Although the work would be less for a smaller team. You really need to rethink that one. And y'know, it might just be that this crap is unfounded and they HAVE been doing their jobs. But you've allready evidently made your mind up. I have not. And yes, you hate Eve. Alright already. Malachon Draco... so...you're admitting a connection to a hacker. There is no excuse whatsoever for dealing with him, afaik. I've done responding to you. You and your hacker buddies have fun now. //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:49:00 - [14] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2007 21:46:44 Originally by: Lenutza Someone was using anonymous alts to buy up expanded cargohold bpos and other bpos that would only days/weeks later be converted into T2 variants. It is likely, though not guaranteed, that they were acting on insider knowledge. I know who did this. You're flailing in the wind, they're not devs (American TZ). You simply lost out because of someone took a commercial gamble. It was relatively minor for him as well. Originally by: Lenutza Someone dumped Cap Recharger II bpos and other bpos that were highly devalued by invention or the t2 lottery in the days or weeks before the release of Kali and the lottery. Invention was announced WELL before. Of course people dumped assets which were about to be devalued. This dosn't take insider info, it takes common sense. In the Eve economy, you snooze, you lose. This isn't the same as insider info. It just means you're not very good at manipulating it. Malachon Draco, "And what I hear from Kugutsumen" Right. Spin again. //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 22:12:00 - [15] Malachon Draco, I agree. Also people who prejudge the evidence and slander the people involved. We don't have the results of the investigation yet. So any namecalling about BoB or CCP is predjudging the evidence. //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 22:41:00 - [16] Kruugore, there are plenty in this thread who hate Eve for that matter. And the way the market works, the only way not to affect it is not to play. And devs out of touch with the game do a lot of damage, rapidly. You're taking the word of a hacker over that of CCP by default. Liquid Vision, so basically you want to change the T2 lottery? To skew the possibilities? REGARDLESS what it would be done for, it'd be wrong. Do you think that the T2 market should be manipulated without the devs having first have evidence of it? That seems exceedingly odd. And no, trying to equate the role of the SEC to that of a single company breaks down. Further, the SEC is one model - and in many ways a bad one - of how to protect the market. Devs who are out of touch are ten times the threat, quite simply. Your lack of basic knowledge about how to make software shows. //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 22:41:00 - [17] Kruugore, there are plenty in this thread who hate Eve for that matter. And the way the market works, the only way not to affect it is not to play. And devs out of touch with the game do a lot of damage, rapidly. You're taking the word of a hacker over that of CCP by default. Liquid Vision, so basically you want to change the T2 lottery? To skew the possibilities? REGARDLESS what it would be done for, it'd be wrong. Do you think that the T2 market should be manipulated without the devs having first have evidence of it? That seems exceedingly odd. And no, trying to equate the role of the SEC to that of a single company breaks down. Further, the SEC is one model - and in many ways a bad one - of how to protect the market. Devs who are out of touch are ten times the threat, quite simply. Your lack of basic knowledge about how to make software shows. //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 23:05:00 - [18] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2007 23:09:03 Originally by: Amiable Quinn It is a very different thing. A newspaper hasn't produced (albeit possibly illegally obtained) recordings of my wife calling the police saying that I was beating her. And neither has there been here. A criminal has started "sharing" some tapes he claims he stole, with no evidence they're genuine. Period. That the goons have jumped on this is typical, but does nothing for the credability of the source. Liquid Vision, you yourself called for a deliverate intervention of the T2 lottery to prevent some accounts from particupating in it. And you want the devs to have no clue about the real state of Eve, great for you. Unfortunately, that's a very good way to kill a MMO...SWG is a prime example there, that some of the devs thought the new balance was a good idea and that the playerbase would love it. If you have a magic soloution for this, let's hear it. You'll be a millionare if you can get round the necessity for people to test their own software. WoW does no less than CCP in terms of allowing their employees to play. You're taking the word of a self admited criminal hacker as gospel. I wonder what relationship you have with him, thus (and what you're guilty of, frankly). What one side says is allways "weak" when you've allready made your descision before you read it - or when you're driving one side. If you don't want devs playing the game you do, I hear EA make some FINE products. A MMO without its devs playing it has doomed itself, in even the moderate term. Software development 101, again. //Maya
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 23:47:00 - [19] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2007 23:43:57 Galea Wildfang, anything the devs don't do is basically blocking off that area from the proper dev attention. Neglecting the social aspects of Eve need would be as bad as neglecting combat in that respect. And again, playing with specific goals skewes the results from the actual experience. You need dev PLAYERS, not observers. You cannot tell from second hand experience what's really going on. Software development 101 again. Scree, nah, I'm just gonna laugh at you frankly. //Maya

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