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Eltigre
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Posted - 2003.12.10 21:19:00 -
[1]
Cannot warp from a gate until more than 20 km distant ?!? Are you freakin' insane or what ? Just how lame are the criminal-pirates in-game anyway ? Do they need this much help to score a kill ? This will give me even more incentives to remain within a very small are in high-sec space to play and live in EVE - lol !
SWEET routinely sells BPC's in Sing Laison and Essence Regions. |
ShadowHawk
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Posted - 2003.12.10 21:35:00 -
[2]
That indeed would be pretty retarded... specially with gate jumps now ending up next to the gate...
somehow I have serious doubts that the devs have checked their number of connected users lately... since release the numbers have been constantly declining... things like this don't enhance gameplay, instead it just drives more people out of the game...
Good Move CCP 
Your 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I perfectly strikes Sansha's Scavenger, wrecking for 264.3 damage.
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Eltigre
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Posted - 2003.12.10 23:50:00 -
[3]
Yeah, I am pretty sure I will be exiting the game pretty quickly after Castor is released UNLESS CCP can pull their heads outta their behinds and get a grip as to what features made EVE fun to play... making it painfully easy for pirates to gate camp without the need for warp inhibitors is NOT what I want to spend my $12.95 per month for... neither do I want to pay for MWD/AB's being nerfed to hell ! If they wanted to nerf MWD/AB's to the extent that have on Chaos then why not just remove MWD/AB's from the game completely and then adjust the ship stats to compensate for the lack of MWD/AB's by making all ships caps drain really fast when moving this would at least free up one slot per ship cuz who is gonna even try to move around without at least 2 MWD's when travelling the gate system ?!?
At least on TQ now it is possible to make a ship fast or slow and tough but on Chaos the only option is to move slow regardless of how ships are fitted !
The last fun EVE patch is already here and is on TQ now - Castor blows and is NOT worth paying for !
SWEET routinely sells BPC's in Sing Laison and Essence Regions. |
Buddrow
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Posted - 2003.12.10 23:54:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Buddrow on 11/12/2003 00:52:47
Edited by: Buddrow on 11/12/2003 00:50:32
WOW, just looked at cap regs for mwds... that is steep, 700 cap, holy **** man. thats just insane.
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"Give me but one firm spot on which to stand, and I will move earth."
Archimedes c.287 - 212 BC
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Xailia
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Posted - 2003.12.11 00:17:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
MWD/AB's being nerfed to hell!
Are you sure you are using the MWD rated for your ship class? 1 Meganewton MWD/AB for frigates. 10 MN MWD/AB for Cruisers. 100 MN MWD/AB for Battleships.
Another thing, if you are in an indie, you should either be in a higher sec area, or have escourts, this is how the devs planned it to be, but noone was doing it. Besides, they aren't even done balancing it on Chaos, it might be more to your appeal when it actually goes live, and I'm sure they have taken your concerns into account, you've only posted about this 10 times
Patience people, patience. 
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
Anna Heart
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Posted - 2003.12.11 00:18:00 -
[6]
no offence but I'm no pirate and I'm sick of seeing everything hostile to me simply warp away the moment it looks bad and getting away with it. I like the idea understanding it will make it so fights actualy happen instead of the system now where a pilot with 2 MWDs is virtualy invincable to danger.
InfiniCorp, Lunatic at Arms
When you think of picking a fight remember this, I've got a big gun, and the insanity to use it. |
Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2003.12.11 00:55:00 -
[7]
I don't get it. What are you guys talking about?
If I jump into a system. And i'm 15km from the gate.. Are you saying I have to move 20km away from the gate before it will let me warp?
If that's so, it's going to intensely increase travel time. That means you will have to move like 5km away from the gate every time you jump-in, then stop your ship to ease realignment, then warp to the next gate, approach the gate 12km or so, jump.. Jump-in, move away from the gate 5km, stop ship to ease alignment, warp...
The problem is.. It takes forever to move, turn, and stop a Battleship. And I may jump-in on the opposite side of the stargate from which I need to travel. So I will have to move 5km in the wrong direction and stop before warping.
Man. I don't care about carebears and pirates crying. I just want to get from point A to point B before bed time. jeez. 
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Mir0s
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Posted - 2003.12.11 01:02:00 -
[8]
Quote:
Cannot warp from a gate until more than 20 km distant ?!? Are you freakin' insane or what ? Just how lame are the criminal-pirates in-game anyway ? Do they need this much help to score a kill ? This will give me even more incentives to remain within a very small are in high-sec space to play and live in EVE - lol !
You might think that Shadowhawk is Eltigre alt, they writing styles are pretty similar.. 
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PERCYDAMAN
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Posted - 2003.12.11 01:02:00 -
[9]
this sounds like an unfortunate byproduct of their nerfing insta jump bookmarks... very unfortunate... 
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Elentari
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Posted - 2003.12.11 03:19:00 -
[10]
Quote:
If I jump into a system. And i'm 15km from the gate.. Are you saying I have to move 20km away from the gate before it will let me warp? Quote:
No, silly, if you had been following pretty much anything at all on Tech II, you would probably be aware that warp-in points to jump gates have been fixed so that you can instantly warp away, 20km barrier or no.
~Ele
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ShadowHawk
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Posted - 2003.12.11 03:23:00 -
[11]
I can guarantee you that is not the case :)
I do have many alts, though Eltigre isn't one of them...
sorry if I sound frustrated, I'm just fed up with the way CCP mutulates this game... changes of such drastic extent in a live system are not good, they will cause even more changes to fix things that will be out of whack due to this change... it's a circle which doesn't lead anywhere... there are many brilliant books out there on software engineering especially on how to write MMOGs and many of those list what the devs should avoid at all cost, and well, CCP is managing to make every single one of these mistakes... it's as if they haven't learned anything from the failures of the games that failed before them.
Your 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I perfectly strikes Sansha's Scavenger, wrecking for 264.3 damage.
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Xailia
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Posted - 2003.12.11 03:35:00 -
[12]
You seem to be forgetting that these changes are not live yet.
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
Eltigre
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Posted - 2003.12.11 03:36:00 -
[13]
ALso it doesn't seem top me that the game devs have any idea as to what to do with this game let alone how it should operate. On the one hand, they allow ships to be fast but now they want to reverse that... On the one hand they want people to move into 0.0 space but now they are making it as painfully boring as possible to get around due to their desire to allow PvP at all the gates and stations. I prolly would be okay with having to move 20 km from a gate to warp IF my damned ship could move faster than a snail can crawl... if anything the Castor patch will clear out all those who are not PvP freaks which means CCP will get less money from players however those who remain will be only those who want nothing but PvP. Once again we see an MMORPG run by people who could care less about their loyal player community.
SWEET routinely sells BPC's in Sing Laison and Essence Regions. |
Roba
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Posted - 2003.12.11 04:36:00 -
[14]
Ummmmm
you guys know. This feature is for screwing those pirates. If some pirate is going to lock down a ship. He will probably need to be within that no warp zone. So... the pirates no long can just run away when help comes (like you corp mate in a Raven warps in to your rescue)
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Eltigre
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Posted - 2003.12.11 05:07:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Ummmmm
you guys know. This feature is for screwing those pirates. If some pirate is going to lock down a ship. He will probably need to be within that no warp zone. So... the pirates no long can just run away when help comes (like you corp mate in a Raven warps in to your rescue)
Hey *snip*, all this means is pirates don't gotta bother to equip a warp scrambler which means pirates get 1 slot FREE but this also means not even a warp core stabilizer will mean the rest of us can run cuz nobody gets to run !
Now let's think about this, shall we... you jump into a system and end up 8 km from the perimeter of the no-warp zone and your ship even with an MWD can get ya up to 500 m/sec which means it will take 16 secs to reach the place where you can begin to warp meanwhile pirates are using Frigates with cruise missiles cuz Frigates can get a target-lock in 7 secs. You take a quick look around while ytou are cloaked and you notice 5 pirate Frigates sitting just outside the no warp zone some 9 km away from you; you hit your MWD and your cap begins to drain pretty fast; you are no longer cloaked and 5 pirate Frigates all begin to target your cruiser; 7 secs later they all have their target-locks and your ship is only 3500 meters closer to the edge of the no warp zone. All 5 pirate Frigates begin launching cruise missiles - they're all Kestrels ! Some 9 secs later your ship is hit with 5 to 10 cruise missiles which means your cruiser is most likely gonna disappear soon with you in your pod and soon you too are dead !
Does this scenario seem the least bit realistic given the current state of affairs on Chaos ? I think it is...
Pirates will once again turn to using Frigates to score their kills because Frigates will become the fastest ships in-game and we all know speed scores kills especially when the cost to replace a Frigate is so small.
If you're in a BS you might be a bit safer but wait these 5 pirate Frigates have some back-up sitting out some 30 km - 80 km out. Most BS weapons (Tachyons and 425 mm Rails) can hit from 30 km out while 1400 mm Projectiles can hit from as far as 80 km out depending on the ammo used. It would take a BS longer to get a target-lock however with some teamwork between Frigates and BS's it would be quite possible for BS's to begin to get target-locks meanwhile the Frigates begin firing their cruise missiles. If your cruiser tries to fight off the Frigates the pirate BS's would prolly have more than enough time to begin to fire BEFORE your cruiser can get to warp.
You still think pirates are going to choose to risk their ships just to get up-close and personal within the 20 km no-warp zones ? Get real ! The only ships that will get inside the no-warp zones will be the ships the pirates choose to kill ! Pirates will still be able to warp away whenever help arrives. Nothing will change except that pirates won't need to use warp scramblers.
Do you really want to have to travel in large groups in this game ? Trips on TQ that take 15 mins to go 15 jumps will take 4x to 6x longer due to the slower speeds and the need to move battle groups from gate to gate. Life will become very very tedius and time consuming.
Personally I think the CCP game devs have gone off the deep-end with the no-warp zones around gates and stations. They were onto something that may have been fun to play right up until this no-warp crap !
SWEET routinely sells BPC's in Sing Laison and Essence Regions. |
Xailia
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Posted - 2003.12.11 05:38:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Xailia on 11/12/2003 05:39:32
Quote:
Do you really want to have to travel in large groups in this game?
The pirates in your scenario do...
The only cases in which you would need to group up with people:
- If you are going into low sec space
-sub- You are not in a ship setup for travel
- If you are going through a enemy alliance territory
If you setup your ship for traveling, there should be a way to get out of that situation (if people can't seem to do that easily, the devs should change it accordingly).
If you are in enemy or pirate territory, I would ask you, "What the hell are you doing there?"
If you are in 0.0-0.4 sec space and don't have a properly outfitted ship, or don't have an escort, then there should be some risk in being there.
This current solution on castor is obviously not done being tweaked. But even so, this adds danger (without exploit) to those who choose to take indies into low sec space without escourt. It also introduces a better chance of being a freelancer enforcer of peace (especially with the system coming in T3 where you can "play an NPC", mentioned in the last CSM), and it gets rid of the JIP lag exploiters and leaves room for pirates who actually know what they are doing (though with the current system, it needs some tweaking, from what I've seen).
Masses are being tweaked to let ships move faster with the new MWD/ABs, and if you haven't noticed, the MWD duration has been extended from 3 to 10 seconds, however some cruiser masses need to be tweaked - last time I tested cruisers on chaos about 4 days ago (my thorax seemed to max out at about 500-600m/s with a 10MN MWD).
Like I said, its not on live yet.
Patience Eltigre! Patience.
[Edit] Than -> Then
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
Karol Kei
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Posted - 2003.12.11 07:06:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Karol Kei on 11/12/2003 07:07:44
I like the upcoming changes. It brings back real pirating, takes away waking up at the cloning facility instead of JiP etc just to start off with the most obvious things. At this point and with the info i have, the only thing I am unhappy with is the travel time increase.
As for the adaptation to the changes, I think letting people jump in with combat ready ships first to check and clear the area as needed, and only then bring in the more vulnearable ships should work quite nicely. And not the other way around - jump into a bad place and call for help.
For a single player this means that every jump is a risk, but that's nothing but realistic. Going to bad places alone is not a good idea, not even if the game mechanics have made it somewhat safe up until now.
So, I like the changes, apart from travel time increase. That is my opinion and people are free to disagree.
As for the declining number of players, all MMORPGs see people leave all the time. That is one side of it. Getting new people in is the other side. Eve has been tough to obtain, and that was recently changed, reversed even. Since then there has been a big influx of new players. And if you look at the graphs in the www.eve-i.com you can see that the trend has been changed since last saturday. Every day has seen more players than there were during the same weekday a week ago. Obviously sunday doesn't count because it was the big login day so that figure is out of whack.
Just my views here, no need to get all excited if you disagree, btw.
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2003.12.11 07:31:00 -
[18]
the indy speed nerf is huge .. a single pirate frigate with an webifier is going to force your average indy pilot to take 10 minutes to drive out of the anti-warp field .. er although the 2 minutes itl take without being webbed is pretty likely enough for even the most incompetent pilot to kill it I think .. although the true evil ones will probably just double-web it and sit there laughing (as the indy pilot spends the next hour trying to fly out)
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Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Uuldahan
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Posted - 2003.12.11 07:53:00 -
[19]
I like very much the changes too, space is now more dangerous and you have to make groups to travel. More cooperation, more strategies, more fun. It's a good thing.
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Temerlyn
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Posted - 2003.12.11 07:54:00 -
[20]
If those who like to whine actually made an effort to read about news instead of jumping to conclusions.
Hellmar stated they are ballancing the changes so that the time traveled from system to system doesnt change all that much. As a result warping is now 3 au max instead of 2 and he has also stated the code has been re written to allow devs to access those values to implement skills to affect warp speed. Though this wont come in the tech 2 patch.
Now with the ability of gates having this no warp fly zone means gate camping will become very dangerous for all parties involved. So if theres pirates camping a gate then a force is needed to take em out. The pirates are just as fubared in this situation. Some equal size force jumps in and starts combat there is no immediate running, the pirates will loose far more ships making gate camping risky for them. But this new system allows them to gate camp effectivly with a huge added risk.
So now you cant solo mine/haul through space, this is a multiplayer game is it not. Now small corps can specialise as escort corps and sell there services as mercenaries. Already existing pirate hunting corps can successfully hunt pirates without the never ending chaseing going on.
Think outside the little square you live in and then have a better argument to produce.
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Karol Kei
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Posted - 2003.12.11 08:22:00 -
[21]
I wasn't whining about the travel time, I am quite happy with the patch, like I said. As far as I can tell, people are saying that the changes to help travel time to compensate for changes are not sufficent right now. But again, that is just a detail, as a whole I am looking forward to the patch.
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Dragunov
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Posted - 2003.12.11 13:34:00 -
[22]
Wouldnt it be better if they increased the speed when your warping? say to 4 au's. This would put the time to travel slightly back on par. Maybe even introduce a skill that increases your speed in warp?
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Adliger Krieger
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Posted - 2003.12.11 13:37:00 -
[23]
Quote:
The pirates are just as fubared in this situation. Some equal size force jumps in and starts combat there is no immediate running, the pirates will loose far more ships making gate camping risky for them. But this new system allows them to gate camp effectivly with a huge added risk.
Actually, you are wrong. Like a previous very flustered poster mentioned, there is nothing keeping the pirates sitting 1km outside of the no warp zone and taking ships out as they jump in. If your "forces" jump in to help, the rats simply warp away.
Please don't be so*****y before you have all the info, peeps.
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Blueblooded
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Posted - 2003.12.11 13:51:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Now let's think about this, shall we... you jump into a system and end up 8 km from the perimeter of the no-warp zone and your ship even with an MWD can get ya up to 500 m/sec which means it will take 16 secs to reach the place where you can begin to warp meanwhile pirates are using Frigates with cruise missiles cuz Frigates can get a target-lock in 7 secs. You take a quick look around while ytou are cloaked and you notice 5 pirate Frigates sitting just outside the no warp zone some 9 km away from you; you hit your MWD and your cap begins to drain pretty fast; you are no longer cloaked and 5 pirate Frigates all begin to target your cruiser; 7 secs later they all have their target-locks and your ship is only 3500 meters closer to the edge of the no warp zone. All 5 pirate Frigates begin launching cruise missiles - they're all Kestrels ! Some 9 secs later your ship is hit with 5 to 10 cruise missiles which means your cruiser is most likely gonna disappear soon with you in your pod and soon you too are dead !
Have you tried that scenario on Chaos???
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"The royal blood is blue, hence my name"
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Eltigre
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Posted - 2003.12.11 14:59:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Quote:
Now let's think about this, shall we... you jump into a system and end up 8 km from the perimeter of the no-warp zone and your ship even with an MWD can get ya up to 500 m/sec which means it will take 16 secs to reach the place where you can begin to warp meanwhile pirates are using Frigates with cruise missiles cuz Frigates can get a target-lock in 7 secs. You take a quick look around while ytou are cloaked and you notice 5 pirate Frigates sitting just outside the no warp zone some 9 km away from you; you hit your MWD and your cap begins to drain pretty fast; you are no longer cloaked and 5 pirate Frigates all begin to target your cruiser; 7 secs later they all have their target-locks and your ship is only 3500 meters closer to the edge of the no warp zone. All 5 pirate Frigates begin launching cruise missiles - they're all Kestrels ! Some 9 secs later your ship is hit with 5 to 10 cruise missiles which means your cruiser is most likely gonna disappear soon with you in your pod and soon you too are dead !
Have you tried that scenario on Chaos???
Well if YOU really need to see this scenario in action then give it a try, for myself I have no problems knowing this strategy would work cuz I know how much pirates love to hit and run - hit and run is a good battle strategy but the flaw in how the game devs are handling the no-warp zones is gonna allow pirates one very big reason to attack while outside the no-warp zone, I would ! Why waste time getting up-close and personal ? Sit just outside the no-warp zone and launch heavy combat drones then take one shot with a beam weapon that cannot hit from more than 20 km out and bingo the drones fly in at 300 m/sec and attack the target. Do you really think pirates are going to fly into the no-warp zone and attack at short range ? Get real ! Pirates will camp just outside the no-warp zones and attack from a safe distance that allows them the most options meanwhile their targets are stuck-in-wax trying to either warp or jump. No-warp zones benefit ONLY pirates ! Nobody else will get a benefit aside from pirate-hunters and other PvP freaks !
Try this one on for size... Fit a Passive Targeter (assuming they even work) and while you are struggling to get to a warpable distance from a gate you target someone nearby and then wait for a lock... you open-up with torpedos or whatever short-range weapons you got and bingo you scored a kill ! Not as much fun as camping outside the no-warp zone but it works. BTW - unless your escorts are sitting 1 system away you won't get any help assuming pirates become stupid and attack from within the no-warp zones. - lol
SWEET routinely sells BPC's in Sing Laison and Essence Regions. |
Ravenal
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Posted - 2003.12.11 15:21:00 -
[26]
you guys are forgetting some VERY important details:
1. warp core stabil is now a low slot item and always active - not very important with jip gate camping but just might get you out of there once you exit the warp interdiction field.
2. after jumping you are CLOAKED for one minute while you decide what to do. you can head back towards the gate to jump back to the system you came from or try to make a run for it out of the warp interdiction field.
3. you are cloaked UNTIL you activate a module, move or try to do any other action. what is to prevent you activating a cloaking device first?
YES, the cloaking device - you guys forgot that ;)
thats some help for gatejumpers ;)
...new sig coming up
Ravenal - Fate is what you make of it. |
Negotiator
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Posted - 2003.12.11 15:52:00 -
[27]
eltigre ur a noob. u have the option to warp OUTSIDE of the 20km bubble(20, 30, 50km). All you need to do is friggin scout from 30 or 50km...if someone is at the gate, pay for escort or pay for passage. im actualy tired of all those indies going around unescorted...
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Nitro G
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Posted - 2003.12.11 17:12:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Nitro G on 11/12/2003 17:15:10
Dragunov, that's the best idea I've heard in a while. dev's, act on that idea asap and i'll pay u 300m isk =P. That wont only speeds up travel time, but it would also make it able for someone to catch another guy if he's running away from them. get it? say a guy is warping away to a moon or somethin, and the guy chasing could get there faster if he trained up the skill. Just thoughts, good idea again drag.
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MSCNLN
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Posted - 2003.12.11 21:48:00 -
[29]
Oh come on, you think that pirates are actually going to be in the 20k bubble? lol
We should just jump in 20k from the gate. Its fine one way that the gates are 20k away, but omg in any bs/indy at 100 m/s if you jump in 10k from gate, thats 20 seconds of possibly being shot at with no ability to run away, but be sure that it you start doing hull damage to a pirate, they will be gone in a second.
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Street
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Posted - 2003.12.11 23:18:00 -
[30]
If pirates camping outside the exclusion zone become an issue, it shouldn't be hard for CCP to give them an incentive to get them inside the zone: Put distance as a factor in Lock-on time. If they sit out at long range, the target will be gone before they can lock - especially the smaller ships. They would have to move into the zone in order to get any kills.
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