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eBil Tycoon
Empty Wallets
13
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Posted - 2016.02.24 18:53:51 -
[1] - Quote
From the most recent Dev Blog post...
"2. A. Establishing a New Account
<GǪAccounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited.Gǥ
Does this not explicitly and exactly describe entities like iwantisk, eve bet, eohpoker.com, themittani.com and the like? Or is the only distinction here that the business has to earn real currency from their operations? |

Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14323
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Posted - 2016.02.24 18:58:02 -
[2] - Quote
No, read it again , its quite clear.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2625
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 19:25:15 -
[3] - Quote
This thread has quite the potential to deliver on the e-lawyer level. |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
10978
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 19:29:07 -
[4] - Quote
eBil Tycoon wrote: Does this not explicitly and exactly describe entities like iwantisk, eve bet, eohpoker.com, themittani.com and the like? Or is the only distinction here that the business has to earn real currency from their operations?
What do you think, Mr. Fantasmo?
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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eBil Tycoon
Empty Wallets
13
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Posted - 2016.02.24 20:01:37 -
[5] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:eBil Tycoon wrote: Does this not explicitly and exactly describe entities like iwantisk, eve bet, eohpoker.com, themittani.com and the like? Or is the only distinction here that the business has to earn real currency from their operations?
What do you think, Mr. Fantasmo? More specifically, where does that place the entities that do generate income through advertisement revenue? I checked four of those sites and two had non-eve related advertisements on them (i.e. probably not paid for with isk).
So where exactly should the line be drawn? Are some allowed to slide and everyone else has to follow the rules? |

Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14324
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:21:12 -
[6] - Quote
eBil Tycoon wrote:Bumblefck wrote:eBil Tycoon wrote: Does this not explicitly and exactly describe entities like iwantisk, eve bet, eohpoker.com, themittani.com and the like? Or is the only distinction here that the business has to earn real currency from their operations?
What do you think, Mr. Fantasmo? More specifically, where does that place the entities that do generate income through advertisement revenue? I checked four of those sites and two had non-eve related advertisements on them (i.e. probably not paid for with isk). So where exactly should the line be drawn? Are some allowed to slide and everyone else has to follow the rules? those are entities owned by players , not entities with accounts.
i do love a good auld manufactured outrage but they explicitly laid this one out in as clear and plebean friendly language as possible, try harder mate.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|

eBil Tycoon
Empty Wallets
13
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Posted - 2016.02.24 20:23:39 -
[7] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:eBil Tycoon wrote:Bumblefck wrote:eBil Tycoon wrote: Does this not explicitly and exactly describe entities like iwantisk, eve bet, eohpoker.com, themittani.com and the like? Or is the only distinction here that the business has to earn real currency from their operations?
What do you think, Mr. Fantasmo? More specifically, where does that place the entities that do generate income through advertisement revenue? I checked four of those sites and two had non-eve related advertisements on them (i.e. probably not paid for with isk). So where exactly should the line be drawn? Are some allowed to slide and everyone else has to follow the rules? those are entities owned by players , not entities with accounts. i do love a good auld manufactured outrage but they explicitly laid this one out in as clear and plebean friendly language as possible, try harder mate. Here, let me re-highlight the relevant portion.
Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business
Or is it your suggestion that none of the iwantisk banker alts are working on behalf of iwantisk? |

Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5739
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:23:45 -
[8] - Quote
I would make a char named Business entity and see CCP scratching their heads, if I wouldnt be so lazy.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Ibutho Inkosi
Irubo Kovu
191
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Posted - 2016.02.24 20:24:15 -
[9] - Quote
The loophole might be the lone citizen getting an EVE account then being struck by the proverbial idea lightbulb, generates a company as a third-party appendage. My understanding and attention span fades at this point.
Imagine, however, some guys forming a corp and televising all their exploits in New Eden as a TV show! (How dull would THAT be?) Fox Networks thinks it's a thrill and gives them an hour a week - EVE Buddies! Or EVEventure! Or some such. They then polka dot the show with high priced ads and make a killing off the artistic efforts of CCP.
Maybe that's the sort of thing it's intended to prevent.
As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
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DaReaper
Net 7
2771
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Posted - 2016.02.24 20:26:30 -
[10] - Quote
Business Entity:
Hi my name is Gamer X, i own Gamer X's gold sales. I have 30 accounts paid by my business, i write this off as a business expesnse and they are botting in eve with the proupose of selling isk so i make profit.
or
I am Gamer X, and i higher sweat shop workers to play eve so i cna sell there isk for a profit
Not a Business Entity:
Hi, I am Gamer Y, i'm a huge fan of eve, and made a website where i blog about it. This site cost me personally XXX a month, so i'm going to add some google adsense ads to hep cover this cost. i'm not tyring to make any actual profit, i just want to provide a good blog and keep the site up.
See the difference? Now there is a bunch of grey in between thouse, and you could argue that some eve news site might be business entities. But, if they are not making money off ingame ****, its actually fine.
Really not that hard to understand
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
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eBil Tycoon
Empty Wallets
13
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Posted - 2016.02.24 20:30:37 -
[11] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Business Entity:
Hi my name is Gamer X, i own Gamer X's gold sales. I have 30 accounts paid by my business, i write this off as a business expesnse and they are botting in eve with the proupose of selling isk so i make profit.
or
I am Gamer X, and i higher sweat shop workers to play eve so i cna sell there isk for a profit
Not a Business Entity:
Hi, I am Gamer Y, i'm a huge fan of eve, and made a website where i blog about it. This site cost me personally XXX a month, so i'm going to add some google adsense ads to hep cover this cost. i'm not tyring to make any actual profit, i just want to provide a good blog and keep the site up.
See the difference? Now there is a bunch of grey in between thouse, and you could argue that some eve news site might be business entities. But, if they are not making money off ingame ****, its actually fine.
Really not that hard to understand And where would accepting direct cash donations on twitch fall, of those two areas? My twitch account is free every month, there are no incurred upkeep costs there. |

Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
39
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Posted - 2016.02.24 20:36:27 -
[12] - Quote
I'm not seeing what King Ralph is, which is usually my signal that I'm really wrong so take the following with a large grain of salt:
The literal read of it would indeed preclude anyone from making money off of EVE other than CCP. Literal is not intent though.
Intent is probably making profit off of the game for the sake of profit and in no way returning value to the game. The ISK miners, etc. would fall into that group. They just take and EVE or CCP gets nothing back.
Other business sorts like Mittani, Markee Dragon, and a whole host of other players that find a way to make real money off of EVE activities, arguably add to the game by bringing in new players and swirling social media to broadcast the game to a wider audience.
So, my final read is that CCP would whip this out as a ban-stick if they find someone doing something they don't like or someone gets caught in the real world doing a scam and brings a bad light on EVE. As long as it doesn't hurt the game or the players, I think they let it slide.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14326
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Posted - 2016.02.24 20:37:28 -
[13] - Quote
are you hacking at streamers , monitised 3rd party sites or ccp now im not sure?
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|

eBil Tycoon
Empty Wallets
13
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Posted - 2016.02.24 20:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:are you hacking at streamers , monitised 3rd party sites or ccp now im not sure? I am seeking clarification of the rules as they are stated, as it seems there is a vast grey area that many apparent business non-entities are currently operating within. |

eBil Tycoon
Empty Wallets
13
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:46:04 -
[15] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:I'm not seeing what King Ralph is, which is usually my signal that I'm really wrong so take the following with a large grain of salt:
The literal read of it would indeed preclude anyone from making money off of EVE other than CCP. Literal is not intent though.
Intent is probably making profit off of the game for the sake of profit and in no way returning value to the game. The ISK miners, etc. would fall into that group. They just take and EVE or CCP gets nothing back.
Other business sorts like Mittani, Markee Dragon, and a whole host of other players that find a way to make real money off of EVE activities, arguably add to the game by bringing in new players and swirling social media to broadcast the game to a wider audience.
So, my final read is that CCP would whip this out as a ban-stick if they find someone doing something they don't like or someone gets caught in the real world doing a scam and brings a bad light on EVE. As long as it doesn't hurt the game or the players, I think they let it slide.
This seems to be the current status quo and it is exactly what I find most troubling. Who makes the determinations of what adds value to the game and what doesn't? If I decide to do what other third parties do and am shut out for it, would my protestations be valid and justified or even listened to, or have they cornered the market in their respective realms and there is no room for any competition? |

Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14327
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:47:02 -
[16] - Quote
... they just clarified exactly that , im not sure what els to tell you without using sock puppets
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|

eBil Tycoon
Empty Wallets
13
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:50:50 -
[17] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:... they just clarified exactly that , im not sure what els to tell you without using sock puppets See the post above yours. They obviously get it. You obviously don't. |

Grauth Thorner
Vicious Trading Company
458
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:55:04 -
[18] - Quote
eBil Tycoon wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:are you hacking at streamers , monitised 3rd party sites or ccp now im not sure? I am seeking clarification of the rules as they are stated, as it seems there is a vast grey area that many apparent business non-entities are currently operating within. I'm sure CCP would've done something about it if they weren't happy those entities (notice how I didn't state business nor non-business). I'm sure CCP would like to thank you for the heads-up though.
Create your own in-game shiplabels:
>EVE Custom Ship Labeler application forum thread
>iciclesoft.com
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Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
366
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:55:12 -
[19] - Quote
eBil Tycoon wrote:DaReaper wrote:Business Entity:
Hi my name is Gamer X, i own Gamer X's gold sales. I have 30 accounts paid by my business, i write this off as a business expesnse and they are botting in eve with the proupose of selling isk so i make profit.
or
I am Gamer X, and i higher sweat shop workers to play eve so i cna sell there isk for a profit
Not a Business Entity:
Hi, I am Gamer Y, i'm a huge fan of eve, and made a website where i blog about it. This site cost me personally XXX a month, so i'm going to add some google adsense ads to hep cover this cost. i'm not tyring to make any actual profit, i just want to provide a good blog and keep the site up.
See the difference? Now there is a bunch of grey in between thouse, and you could argue that some eve news site might be business entities. But, if they are not making money off ingame ****, its actually fine.
Really not that hard to understand And where would accepting direct cash donations on twitch fall, of those two areas? My twitch account is free every month, there are no incurred upkeep costs there.
I would strongly advise anyone who wants to try to make real revenue such as streamers, book writers, machinima makers, etc contact CCP directly with their intentions, preferably long before you are profitable, or even popular.
I talk with CCP all the time, they are often totally cool great people to work with. I know some people have had negative history, but they have a lot of support for content creators who are willing to work with them.
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
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DaReaper
Net 7
2771
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
yea file a petiton or email there marketing guy (his e-mail was on the eve website)
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
|

Paranoid Loyd
8460
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 21:02:32 -
[21] - Quote
eBil Tycoon wrote:I am seeking clarification of the rules as they are stated
File a petition, why are you asking for clarification from the players? If you get banned are you going to try to reason with CCP by saying "well I post a thread in GD and some random forum posters clarified the policy so I thought it was OK"?
Anything anyone says here is more or less irrelevant.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14328
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 21:03:19 -
[22] - Quote
eBil Tycoon wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:... they just clarified exactly that , im not sure what els to tell you without using sock puppets See the post above yours. They obviously get it. You obviously don't. different issue,
they did have a video monetization policy that covered that but i cant actually find it anymore.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|

eBil Tycoon
Empty Wallets
13
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 21:05:27 -
[23] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:eBil Tycoon wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:... they just clarified exactly that , im not sure what els to tell you without using sock puppets See the post above yours. They obviously get it. You obviously don't. different issue, they did have a video monetization policy that covered that but i cant actually find it anymore. If you are able to find that again I would love to see it. From what I recall the EULA and TOS don't really cover that very well, though I will admit it has been awhile since I've read them. |

Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14329
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 21:11:53 -
[24] - Quote
eBil Tycoon wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:eBil Tycoon wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:... they just clarified exactly that , im not sure what els to tell you without using sock puppets See the post above yours. They obviously get it. You obviously don't. different issue, they did have a video monetization policy that covered that but i cant actually find it anymore. If you are able to find that again I would love to see it. From what I recall the EULA and TOS don't really cover that very well, though I will admit it has been awhile since I've read them. here is where it used to live, this is the forum post from ccp guard announcing it.
honestly contact the leagal team via the email linked and ask about it.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|

Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
43
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 21:16:43 -
[25] - Quote
eBil Tycoon wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:... they just clarified exactly that , im not sure what els to tell you without using sock puppets See the post above yours. They obviously get it. You obviously don't.
Hey, don't use me against King Ralph, I was just calling it as I read the text! He's WAAAAAY more experienced than I am and can probably read the text in CCPish. I might be missing that function in Google translator!
It all comes down to how you WANT to read something too. We humans love to spin things based on perception of lingual intent, the entire lawyer industry is built on that foundation... that and greed.
I was just putting my read of the text down. I specifically said it was likely WRONG!0
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eBil Tycoon
Empty Wallets
14
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 21:49:50 -
[26] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:eBil Tycoon wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:eBil Tycoon wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:... they just clarified exactly that , im not sure what els to tell you without using sock puppets See the post above yours. They obviously get it. You obviously don't. different issue, they did have a video monetization policy that covered that but i cant actually find it anymore. If you are able to find that again I would love to see it. From what I recall the EULA and TOS don't really cover that very well, though I will admit it has been awhile since I've read them. here is where it used to live, this is the forum post from ccp guard announcing it. honestly contact the leagal team via the email linked and ask about it. Thank you for the links. It appears I may need to familiarize myself with This regarding the OP, though it doesn't appear to fully cover all of my initial concerns. |

Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14333
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 21:53:42 -
[27] - Quote
eBil Tycoon wrote:Thank you for the links. It appears I may need to familiarize myself with This regarding the OP, though it doesn't appear to fully cover all of my initial concerns. ah you found it, nice one.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|

Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
45
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 21:58:42 -
[28] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:eBil Tycoon wrote:Thank you for the links. It appears I may need to familiarize myself with This regarding the OP, though it doesn't appear to fully cover all of my initial concerns. ah you found it, nice one.
Yup, that clears it up nicely! Thanks all! |
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