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Dr Jan Itor
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.16 05:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
...but just I can't justify it. You see, I can also fly the Tengu, and when I try to make a Prot fit for PvE(C3 soloing), it falls short every time.
I can cram a bit more DPS out of it, but only realistically applicable on a fraction of the Tengu's range, with relatively underwhelming DPS potential. I can fit a mean tank, but I need to throw double the ISK at it to get a tank comparable to a fairly cheap Tengu 3 slot tank. I've looked into some pretty specialized PVP fits too, but even then it hardly seems worth it.
I know the Tengu is arguably the most versatile and best T3 atm, but really? I'd like to note that I am not overly concerned with stats and all that, but the Proteus just feels so "meh". Am I doing something terribly wrong, do I suck at EVE(probably), or what? Do all T3s except from the Tengu need a buff?
Is it at all possible to fit a Proteus for <2b that can be compared to the good ol' Tengu for PvE?
(I am not including what I have so far, because if I look at my own Prot fits one more time today, I will have to go cry into my pillow. Assume all skills lvl5) |
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2011.12.16 05:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Dr Jan Itor wrote:Is it at all possible to fit a Proteus for <2b that can be compared to the good ol' Tengu for PvE?
Simple answer, no. Medium gunned ships, especially hybrids, typically have range or dps...not both. You need both for pve. |
Kuhn Arashi
Black Talon Aerospace
Black Watch.
10
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Posted - 2011.12.16 06:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
With the DPS buffs of hybrids, you might be able to get some decent numbers with NULL M now. I havent looked into yet for protus though. |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
Mean Coalition
2
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Posted - 2011.12.16 08:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:Dr Jan Itor wrote:Is it at all possible to fit a Proteus for <2b that can be compared to the good ol' Tengu for PvE? Simple answer, no. Medium gunned ships, especially hybrids, typically have range or dps...not both. You need both for pve.
Actually my legion is not to bad having 50km optimal with puls. 
In general, blasters are bad for pve, by the lack of range. Rails by the lack of dps, the last "buff" didn't change this.
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Iron Civire
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
0
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Posted - 2011.12.16 13:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
If you are looking for a t3 to solo c3, aim for the legion. Very good optimal, 700+ tank, 400-600 dps, and melts frigs with 800 alpha , something missiles dont do. |
RaVeN Revenge
RaVeN Alliance
RaVeN Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.12.19 19:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
I run a Proteus for ratting/plexing a lot. I also have a Tengu toon and the Tengu IS the best. Proteus fit dose have a drone bay, and that has saved me more than once, but the Tengu uses capless weapons with range. I feel it tanks better too. I have never tried to omni tank my proteus, but it dose very well when tanked *rat specific*. It generally takes about 4 more vollies to kill the same rat as the Tengu can kill. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
178
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 19:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
You aren't going to find a Proteus fit that can competitively PVE with a Tengu. It just isn't going to happen. The question to me is whether they should boost ALL OTHER T3s or whether they should nerf the Tengu. I'm down for either one - I can fly all the T3s and own 3-4 Tengus.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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SpaceSquirrels
31
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Posted - 2011.12.19 19:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hmm 60 KM point is pretty bad ass. Me thinks a prot is an awesome support ship to have in small gang. Just apply point and rail damage as support way out yonder.
Also a cloaky gang of prots and lokis for ambushing is pretty mean. But some ships just aren't made for solo work. |
To mare
Advanced Technology
5
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Posted - 2011.12.19 21:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Djego wrote:. Rails by the lack of dps, the last "buff" didn't change this.
have you ever tried to compare a arty boat to a rail boat for pve? |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
Mean Coalition
3
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Posted - 2011.12.20 04:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
To mare wrote:The Djego wrote:. Rails by the lack of dps, the last "buff" didn't change this.
have you ever tried to compare a arty boat to a rail boat for pve?
Yes I did, actually I did this a lot over the years. Funny fact, I even managed to be in a Maelstrom just as fast as in a Kronos on L4 before the projectile buff 2 years ago and always was wondering why people did so bad with them.
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Alexa Coates
LNTC
24
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Posted - 2011.12.20 06:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
I have a proteus that can tank C3's, and does 700 dps w/ drones (605 without)
Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships! |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
180
|
Posted - 2011.12.20 07:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alexa Coates wrote:I have a proteus that can tank C3's, and does 700 dps w/ drones (605 without)
Something along this line (5% hardwirings)?
[Proteus, C3 Proteus]
Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
Hammerhead II x5
-Liang
Ed: If you run with Legion gang bonuses this becomes something of a workable fit.
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Alexa Coates
LNTC
24
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Posted - 2011.12.20 17:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Alexa Coates wrote:I have a proteus that can tank C3's, and does 700 dps w/ drones (605 without) Something along this line (5% hardwirings)? [Proteus, C3 Proteus] Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors Hammerhead II x5 -Liang Ed: If you run with Legion gang bonuses this becomes something of a workable fit.
ew what the hell? Rails?
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad113/Byodood/prot.png best possible pve proteus.
Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships! |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
190
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Posted - 2011.12.20 18:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
You're out of your ******* mind there m8. Sleepers in a C3 start 60-100km away.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Alexa Coates
LNTC
24
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Posted - 2011.12.20 18:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:You're out of your ******* mind there m8. Sleepers in a C3 start 60-100km away. -Liang
250mm rails is like rolling down the window and spitting on them.
Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships! |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
190
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Posted - 2011.12.20 18:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Alexa Coates wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:You're out of your ******* mind there m8. Sleepers in a C3 start 60-100km away. -Liang 250mm rails is like rolling down the window and spitting on them.
Ok, whatever. I found that AC and Blaster and even Pulse fits to an extent were largely a waste of time - but hey go ahead and do whatever the **** floats your boat. I'm about done arguing with stupid people on internet forumz.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Alexa Coates
LNTC
24
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Posted - 2011.12.20 20:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
It seems your butthurt is leaking. Need a rag?
Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships! |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
341
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Posted - 2011.12.20 20:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Eww, pve rail proteus. Don't use it, it fails, seriously.
Proteus is for cloaky gank. It's the one cloaky among t3s, or anything else, that actually has gank. Be on top of your target, gank it, and be away before his friends arrive. |
tib0
korpa pYco
The Garden of Eden Creation KIt
0
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Posted - 2011.12.21 11:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:You're out of your ******* mind there m8. Sleepers in a C3 start 60-100km away. -Liang
this is correct...some sleeper BS will web and neut you in same time while orbiting you at 40km. also keep in mind that with blasters, you must have repairer and mwd running all the time, which is cap intensive as well.
but feel free to test it and let us know :) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
1483
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Posted - 2011.12.21 15:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:You aren't going to find a Proteus fit that can competitively PVE with a Tengu. It just isn't going to happen. The question to me is whether they should boost ALL OTHER T3s or whether they should nerf the Tengu. I'm down for either one - I can fly all the T3s and own 3-4 Tengus.
-Liang
Rather than rebalance 3/4 of the ships around PvE, it makes much more sense to rebalance NPCs so that they're not so easily killed with one weapon type.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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Wacktopia
Sicarius.
The Kadeshi
62
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Posted - 2011.12.21 16:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Use the drone subsystem and 5 sentries. Oh wai... |
Arazel Chainfire
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
32
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Posted - 2011.12.21 16:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Alexa Coates wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:You're out of your ******* mind there m8. Sleepers in a C3 start 60-100km away. -Liang 250mm rails is like rolling down the window and spitting on them.
While at least if you're spitting at them, SOMETHING is hitting them. From my own experience, even a legion with scorch loaded is suboptimal for C2/C3 WH's, and an AC ship can just go home as well (unless its a mach or vargur... the only 2 decent AC PvE ships). And while the battleships can web and neut at 40km, there are also cruisers that can web and neut at 20, which are going to be just as big a pita as the battleships because they are faster and still want to run away. Do you keep null loaded all the time and call scratching at 30km "good dps"?
-Arazel |
Julia Connor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2011.12.22 04:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
From my experience, an optimal legion fit handles C3s very well even with neuting NPCs ongrid but you'll need to primary them asap. It also gets much better when you have boosts running. Tengu on the other hand is WAY better and is working as intended. I have no idea about how the proteus fairs at anything but I'm sure it's nothing short of average performance if you consider the current hybrid boost. |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2011.12.22 08:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Alexa Coates wrote:I have a proteus that can tank C3's, and does 700 dps w/ drones (605 without) Something along this line (5% hardwirings)? [Proteus, C3 Proteus] Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors Hammerhead II x5 -Liang Ed: If you run with Legion gang bonuses this becomes something of a workable fit.
You slipping? sixth turret is a 200mm railgun 
I am not a Wormholer but I would perhaps do this.
[Proteus, C3 Proteus]
Corelum B-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corelum B-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Centum A-Type Energized Reactive Membrane
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Large Capacitor Battery II
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
As for other PVE, a Proteus can do any level 4 it is just a matter of efficiency so use it if you want. I am almost max skilled for it and amongst other ships including Ishtar, Hype the Proteus (Blaster) is my first choice for serpentis missions. Two slot tank and lots of DPS. I vary between a micrwarpdrive and afterburner depending on the mission. Some single pocket missions such as duo of death or if there are webbing towers then I will use the hype. But for worlds collide, extravaganza, vengeance, blockade etc I use the Proteus. Being damped is not as much of an issue if you are planning to be up close 
PVP wise it is very flexible with gank or active tank and an overheated 18km scram and web to match is very handy.
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
202
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Posted - 2011.12.22 09:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Alticus C Bear wrote:You slipping? sixth turret is a 200mm railgun
Huh, I wonder why I did that. I think maybe I was checking tracking on 200s? Not sure. Thanks for the catch though - brings it up to 737 DPS @ 18+23... which isn't terrible but is still way less than a Tengu would do. Your fit isn't bad - I hadn't considered a cap battery and I really should have.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Jack Jombardo
The Last Samurais
Cosmic Allianz
3
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Posted - 2011.12.22 10:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:You aren't going to find a Proteus fit that can competitively PVE with a Tengu. It just isn't going to happen. The question to me is whether they should boost ALL OTHER T3s or whether they should nerf the Tengu. I'm down for either one - I can fly all the T3s and own 3-4 Tengus.
-Liang Rather than rebalance 3/4 of the ships around PvE, it makes much more sense to rebalance NPCs so that they're not so easily killed with one weapon type.
Wrong.
Changing NPCs effect ALL T3. Reminde, Mini and Amarr use missile too. And Gallent use the same damage type (kin) as main damage.
Easiest (maybe not the best) fix: remove one/two rocket launcher slots from some Tengu Offensives And tweak some Tengu Deffensives to disable this insane tank abilitys.
So instead of changing 10000xxx NPC ... just change maybe 4 T3-systems -> much less work to do -> much less risky to fail
But I would prefare to boost the other T3 :).
Legion:
- get right of this stupid cap/level for laser bullshit and add flat 25% more cap to all engineering subs
-- add 5% damage to drone and covert sub
-- add 5% tracking to liquid sub (with 25 m-¦ drones it would do far to much damage else)
- add 25 m-¦ drone bay/band to all engineering subs (AND remove 25 m-¦ from the drone offense to secure balance!)
- tweak electronic subs Tactical Targeting and Dissolution -1 med +1 low
PS: this way you can get:
- 7/3/7 liquid offensive with 690+99 = 789 dps Legion (biggest improve are the 5 drones to get a bit better operation against frigs). ALL T2 with conflage (8.6 opti + 6.5 falloff)!
- the drone sub might reach the 650 DPS (now pur T2 ends at 544 DPS)
- Covert offens gain +99 DPS from the drones + ~90 from new 5% bonus =~ from 383 to 574 DPS which is a BIG increase |
Roime
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
63
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Posted - 2011.12.22 10:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:Use the drone subsystem and 5 sentries. Oh wai...
4 sentries is not terribad, though. Would probably work well for all-in-one hisec exploration, and in lower wormholes... but C3 is a bit trickier.
C3s require nearly 100km range or mobility to get up close, so a medium rail fit or AB probably won't cut it. Cap stability should also be rather closer to 50% than 30%, neuts hurt. Now I'm not sure if this has enough dps to really make it worthwhile soloing a C3, but it at least has the needed utilities and the range to reach out to those battleships.
[Proteus, Proteus sentry]
Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
Proteus Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M
Drone Link Augmentor I
Improved Cloaking Device II
Core Probe Launcher I
Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Federation Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
[Empty Rig slot]
Garde II x4
Hobgoblin II x5
Bouncer II x4
Even though I'm a pure Gallente pilot and won't crosstrain even next year, wormhole PvE is not really the domain of Proteus, Sleepers belong to Tengus and that is the end of story. |
Bibosikus
Elite United Hard Moose
Moose Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.12.22 19:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
Roime wrote:
....
Even though I'm a pure Gallente pilot and won't crosstrain even next year, wormhole PvE is not really the domain of Proteus, Sleepers belong to Tengus and that is the end of story.
Tosh. A well-fit Legion with C-Type repper can out-dps a Tengu in C3 anomalies. In my corp we actually tried it out. I took almost a minute less to complete a Fortification Frontier Stronghold than an equally skilled corpie in a similar fit Tengu. However - the Oruze Construct, he was quicker (I coudln't get into range quick enough). He was also faster on the Solar Cell and I was quicker on the Outpost Frontier. I was also quicker running the FFRD and FFQO mag sites by almost 4 minutes. We dind't test the radars.
We chalked it up to insta-dps and insta-swap range. Plus apart from the usual triple damage mods, I could run dual tracking comps.
Familiarisation with the 4 anomaly types and the 4 different mag/radar sites can help you to be closing on an imminent spawn in a timely fashion. It takes practice, that's all.
What it really boils down to is your playing style. Tegus are praised because they're n00b-friendly, have a huge forgiving tank and spit dps out for miles. But - Sleeper-fitted they're also fat, slow and boring to fly. Take your pick. I personally prefer to move about a lot. It also makes it more difficult to be ganked.
FYI since the reintroduction of Sleeper neuting, solo Proteus blaster fits cannot and do not work in C3 sites (anomalies yeah maybe). They get webbed, scrammed, neuted and they die. Period. I haven't tried a railgun fit yet but even if I do, there is no way in Hell I could afford twin A-Type reppers on it, Liang :)
The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux. |
Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
248
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Posted - 2011.12.22 20:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
t'3s need serious balancing |
Roime
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
66
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Posted - 2011.12.22 20:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bibosikus wrote:
Tosh. A well-fit Legion with C-Type repper can out-dps a Tengu in C3 anomalies. In my corp we actually tried it out.
Good info there, I've heard similar reports but they were mostly hearsay, and I've never personally seen a Legion at work in anoms, only suffered serious ***** envy for Tengus.
I'm training a Legion booster alt, but thanks to you she will now have to learn to shoot as well :) |
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