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Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
   |
Posted - 2007.02.06 14:50:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Hardin on 06/02/2007 14:49:48
The Ammatar - A lesson from history
Tribalism is the bane of the Minmatar. Their clannish nature is a serious impediment in the races' path to advancement.
The current tension between the Republic and the terroristic tribes of the Ushra'Khan is yet another example of how damaging this tribalism can be.
But despite the bleak outlook there is still hope for the Minmatar!
The Ammatar have shown that it is possible for the Minmatar to develop a modern and worthwhile state under the guidance of Amarrian values and traditions.
When the Minmatar rebellion began the best and brightest Minmatar realised that their future lay within the Amarrian Empire. These enlightened Minmatar could could cleary see the path of chaos down which the 'free' Minmatar people's would plunge.
With the help of the Amarrians, the Ammatar have progressed beyond the old social structure of the Minmatar tribes. Indeed, they have very deliberately abolished many age-old traditions of the Minmatar tribal society and embraced many Amarrian ones instead.
As a result the Ammatar state is a beacon of hope to all intelligent Minmatar who can see beyond their tribal bundaries. It shows them what they can achieve and the potential that they could unleash as part of the Holy Amarrian Empire.
Despite being constantly undermined by the bitter Republic, terrorists and even the Gallente Republic the Ammatar state really does offer stability, safety and prosperity unheard of in the Minmatar Republic.
As the Republic begins to fracture I call upon all free thinking Minmatar to look to the Ammatar example and extricate yourselves from the outmoded path of tribalism and war before it is too late. Align yourselves with the Ammatar state and build a better future for you and your families.
Thanks to their loyalty to Amarr the Ammatar have prospered greatly and you can do the same!
One day the 'reclaiming' shall begin and Minmatar space will be reincorporated into our great Empire. The Ammatar State will undoubtedly benefit from this historic event.
So Minmatars - take a look around - Do you wish to remain loyal to a feeble Republic that grows weaker by the day - a Republic that could be plunged into civil war at any moment? Or do you sympathise with the misguided Minmatar terrorists seeking to build their own Empire in low-sec space - a project which is ultimately doomed to terrible destruction. Or do you want to enjoy a safe and prosperous future within the enlightened and progressive Ammatar state under the protection of a benevolent Amarrian Empire?
I know what any sane person would chose!
------------------------------
CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607
AMARR VICTOR |
Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.06 15:13:00 -
[2]
Indeed Hardin, the contrast between the stable Ammatar Mandate and the chaotic Minmatar Republic never ceases to amaze me.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.06 15:21:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Nomakai Delateriel on 06/02/2007 15:18:20
You speak the truth Hardin.
Indeed, as I see it, the quickest way to freedom for the Matari people is wholesale surrender to the glorious forces of Amarr.
Surrender and abandon those customs of yours that are anti-social and hatemongering. Only then can the matari people can be free!
As long as you (the minmatar) struggle to remain in the past this is the future that is before you. Nothing but eternal struggles against your own people (and what ever people you blame your own problems on, the current "It's all your fault" scapegoat being the Amarr Empire) with the Gallente exploiters cheering on, using the desperation of your situation for their own financial benefit.
______________________________________________
-You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Agustus Caesar
Minmatar
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.02.06 15:50:00 -
[4]
Stable indeed! There are gaping fissures emering in the Republic, there's no denying that; but one doesn't need to look much farther than gal net to see the Ammatar aren't faring much better. Just take a look at how well recieved Ogoel Marek's plea for simple common courtesy was ruthlessly shot down by intollerant Amarrian loyalists. Now I don't know Marek well enough to say what I think is going through his head; but personally if I was working night and day to spread the ideology of someone who I thought was my ally, only to have that supposed ally spit in my face for my efforts, I wouldnt be that person's ally much longer. Thanks to your people's stead fast refusal to show even the most token of courtesies, the Ammatar are left in a fairly tough position; either turn their backs on the Amarr and look for a new patron or take the insults in stride, and look every bit like the shameless slaves everyone depicts them to be. What is truly sad is the Ammatar probably weren't your colaborators out of spite for the rest of the Minmatar, but they probably actually believed that the Amarr were a god blessed people who only wanted the best for us; I pity them now that their world is collapsing around them.
Things in the Republic are looking bleak, that can't be denied, but tend to you own yard before casting stones into ours.
-Caesar
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Unless otherwise stated my opinions don't represent that of my corporation and/or alliance, but unless your retarded, that should go without saying |
Ostos Marek
House of Marek
|
Posted - 2007.02.06 16:55:00 -
[5]
First off, Hardin, your post is respected among the Ammatar, your brothers in faith.
 Originally by: Agustus Caesar
Stable indeed! There are gaping fissures emering in the Republic, there's no denying that; but one doesn't need to look much farther than gal net to see the Ammatar aren't faring much better. Just take a look at how well recieved Ogoel Marek's plea for simple common courtesy was ruthlessly shot down by intollerant Amarrian loyalists. Now I don't know Marek well enough to say what I think is going through his head; but personally if I was working night and day to spread the ideology of someone who I thought was my ally, only to have that supposed ally spit in my face for my efforts, I wouldnt be that person's ally much longer. Thanks to your people's stead fast refusal to show even the most token of courtesies, the Ammatar are left in a fairly tough position; either turn their backs on the Amarr and look for a new patron or take the insults in stride, and look every bit like the shameless slaves everyone depicts them to be. What is truly sad is the Ammatar probably weren't your colaborators out of spite for the rest of the Minmatar, but they probably actually believed that the Amarr were a god blessed people who only wanted the best for us; I pity them now that their world is collapsing around them.
Things in the Republic are looking bleak, that can't be denied, but tend to you own yard before casting stones into ours.
-Caesar
Caesar, I can hardly count the racism and intolerance of a few Amarrians towards Ogoel and myself as a view of an entire empire. Most Amarrians view us on equal terms in faith and conviction. We still stand true to our faith in God and the Empire.
The Ammatar Mandate is a stable place, and will remain that way. Minmatar that have not seen the light best heed Hardins words. The reclaiming will come soon enough. Many souls sit on the a knife's edge between eternal life and oblivion. We invite all those who are not yet saved to come to the Temple of the Holy Prophet to sign up for the S.E.P. (slave education program) in order to serve God, the Mandate, and the Empire; and to have training in spiritual and job related matters so that your life will have purpose once again.
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Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.02.07 11:25:00 -
[6]
Quote:
Just take a look at how well recieved Ogoel Marek's plea for simple common courtesy was ruthlessly shot down by intollerant Amarrian loyalists.
The Amarr, our paragon, are fully entitled to discipline us for our mistakes. Obviously the honourable Ogoel may have been misinformed by one of the countless spies the republic plants in the mandate when he was assessing the situation.
We can tell these spies apart with time - their uncouth habits and unseeming gait difficult to hide if you observe them carefully. I have removed several closet-terrorists from Delictum 23216 as their treasonous intent was exposed by our meticulous investigation.
Quote:
I pity them now that their world is collapsing around them.
What substantiates this obscene claim? There is war between the forces of the Mandate and the terrorists. All fighting occurs outside of our borders, in the Terra Irridente and the untamed swathes of Providence. Ammatar forces may be spread very thinly on two broad fronts, but we will continue to fight.
And should we be blessed to be fighting alongside our Amarr mentors, we would be honoured to form the front line, taking the first bullets in any engagement.
Quote:
Things in the Republic are looking bleak, that can't be denied, but tend to your own yard before casting stones into ours.
Delictum 23216 will soon be releasing a war situation update, so you have authentic facts to base your analysis upon.
Denique Ammataria!
Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216 Official forums |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216
|
Posted - 2007.02.07 11:28:00 -
[7]
Quote:
The reclaiming will come soon enough
It has already begun.
Delictum 23216 Official forums |
Patamon
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Posted - 2007.02.07 12:50:00 -
[8]
I am curious how you then explain the very similiar factionalism with the Amarr, such as the recent issues with the Order of Tetrimon or the existence of the Khanid Kingdom. The Amarr recently set on the brink of a civil war over an issue less important than the current one with the Minmatar.
As for the help and guidance of the Amarr, thank you no, a whip on our back is not the way to our dealing with issues.
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Archbishop
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.07 13:45:00 -
[9]
The Ammatar are the foundation upon which the new Minmatar race will be born. Stable, caring, dedicated to God and Empire they are a beacon to all. The Ammatar are indeed role models to all the Minmatar as a "free" race lack and should be emulated and respected by their race instead of marginalized and attacked.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Agustus Caesar
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2007.02.07 15:35:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Agustus Caesar on 07/02/2007 15:34:54
Originally by: Agustus Caesar
I pity them now that their world is collapsing around them.
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
What substantiates this obscene claim? There is war between the forces of the Mandate and the terrorists. All fighting occurs outside of our borders, in the Terra Irridente and the untamed swathes of Providence. Ammatar forces may be spread very thinly on two broad fronts, but we will continue to fight.
And should we be blessed to be fighting alongside our Amarr mentors, we would be honoured to form the front line, taking the first bullets in any engagement.
Indeed you are correct, I was merely operating under the assumption that the Ammatar capsuleers would be insulted enough by, being called backwards genetically flawed fools (by the very people they serve no less) enough to turn their backs on their masters; I now see the flaw in my reasoning in this matter. Of the two actions I mentioned lay before the Ammatar, I should have known better than to think they would pick anything but option two.
-Caesar
Edit: messed up quote fixed
-----------------------------
Temporarily retiring from 0.0, if your interested in recruiting me drop a post here |
Derran
Minmatar
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.07 16:16:00 -
[11]
Ahem. Lets break this down and offer some alternate theories to this.
Originally by: Hardin
When the Minmatar rebellion began the best and brightest Minmatar realised that their future lay within the Amarrian Empire. These enlightened Minmatar could could cleary see the path of chaos down which the 'free' Minmatar people's would plunge.
So it wasn't because they were greedy collaborators or feared being totally annilihated like so many others? You may be too eager to pat yourself on the back over this one. Perhaps your zealousness wants to let you congradulate yourself on getting a portion of people under your Empire and claiming they embraced your way of life but if it is out of greed or fear, what is the point? So much for an 'enlightened' path.
Originally by: Hardin
With the help of the Amarrians, the Ammatar have progressed beyond the old social structure of the Minmatar tribes. Indeed, they have very deliberately abolished many age-old traditions of the Minmatar tribal society and embraced many Amarrian ones instead.
Translation. If they didn't accept our way of life, they would have been forced into slavery or put to death. Some choice.
Originally by: Hardin
It shows them what they can achieve and the potential that they could unleash as part of the Holy Amarrian Empire.
As second class citizens unable to live up to their full potential? Pardon me while I laugh over the comedy.
Originally by: Hardin
Despite being constantly undermined by the bitter Republic, terrorists and even the Gallente Republic the Ammatar state really does offer stability, safety and prosperity unheard of in the Minmatar Republic.
Yes, stability and safety by force of arms because if they don't capitulate, the Amarr Empire will just bomb them into a dark age. They may not want to admit it but deep down, I'm sure they know that could happen.
And the Gallente have a Federation, not a Republic.
Originally by: Hardin
So Minmatars - take a look around - Do you wish to remain loyal to a feeble Republic that grows weaker by the day - a Republic that could be plunged into civil war at any moment? Or do you sympathise with the misguided Minmatar terrorists seeking to build their own Empire in low-sec space - a project which is ultimately doomed to terrible destruction? Or do you want to enjoy a safe and prosperous future within the enlightened and progressive Ammatar state under the protection of a benevolent Amarrian Empire?
There is a difference between remaining loyal to the Republic and being loyal to the person leading it. And last I checked, the Amarr Empire had no emperor, you have internal military disputes and you have two of your houses fighting it out after negotiations failed. Perhaps you should work on fixing your own problems first.
And benevolent and Amarrian Empire do not belong in the same sentence. The Amarr Empire is anything but. Submit or die is not benevolent.
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Redbad
Minmatar
Be Inspired Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.02.07 16:20:00 -
[12]
Young Hardin,
Your mind, as nimble as it already is by your birthright, is even more garbled by the doctrine of an empire that finds its morals in death and exploitation of an equal being.
Bare in mind that this summit already knows that the mindwarped Ammatar have been whipped into obedience by your elders and their functioning within the Amarr Empire is just a mere fruit of what ruthless imagination of your imperial families can muster in their biological enhanced weaponry. It is not a choice to be Ammatar, snaketongued counciler.
You know what a sane person would choose, eh? We see their choices everyday, and our Tribes and the Republic have already opened the doors to the millions of Ammatar who realize their true roots and future. Those who set sail to our lands in greater numbers then ever before! We welcome them in peace, behind the guns and missiles we muster for the freedom of all our People.
Death to slavery!
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Arderich
Bruderschaft des Wahrhaftigen
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:02:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Arderich on 07/02/2007 17:02:54
I welcome the intervention of the charismatic Hardin. Not only as an experienced diplomat but also as a Ni-Kunni he is much better suited to represent the Nefantar cause.
I can agree with the gist of Hardins speach so I would prefer not to critice him but because of some of the latter discussions I must address two points: 1. correct is Ammatar Mandate but not Ammatar state. 2. Calling the Nefantar as enlightened is very questionable. If they would be truely enlightened they would be fully integrated into amarrian society like the Ni-Kunni for example. I deny Heideran recognized the Nefantar as enlightened. There would be no need for an Ammatar Mandate. The Mandate still is only a chance for them to prove themselves worthy. If we look from where they were coming from I do not deny they are on the right track. I deny they already have reached the goal.
It would certainly help if people who want to participate in this discussion look up the term 'Mandate' so they know what they are talking about. A mandate is a formal order from a superior court or official to an inferior one. A mandate can be given and can be taken away. Heideran granted the Nefantar tribe a mandate, nothing more.
Hardin makes a good job. Unlike some Nefantar he doesnÆt offer (many) weak points that can be criticized. The Mareks should learn from Hardin and compare their own words with the words coming from Hardin. If they still donÆt get the difference they can ask me as one of their hardest criticizers. I will explain why Hardins approach can be seen as a humble one while their way is offensive and not acceptable. I assume they could ask Hardin for a diplomatic lesson, too.
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Ostos Marek
House of Marek
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:37:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Ostos Marek on 07/02/2007 17:35:42
Edited by: Ostos Marek on 07/02/2007 17:34:47
Originally by: Arderich
1. correct is Ammatar Mandate but not Ammatar state. 2. Calling the Nefantar as enlightened is very questionable. If they would be truely enlightened they would be fully integrated into amarrian society like the Ni-Kunni for example. I deny Heideran recognized the Nefantar as enlightened. There would be no need for an Ammatar Mandate. The Mandate still is only a chance for them to prove themselves worthy. If we look from where they were coming from I do not deny they are on the right track. I deny they already have reached the goal.
We have reached a goal. Most Amarrians view us with respect. There are still some that view us as lesser being, but again there is always the exception.
The Mandate IS a semi-autonomous state (please take a history lesson here The Ammatar. After you review your history, please not that we GOVERN our Mandate (State/province/whatever you will call it) just as any other Ammarian governor would govern their own province. We only have Ammarian ADVISORS. Ammatars rule as the governing body of the Ammatar Mandate.
Originally by: Arderich
It would certainly help if people who want to participate in this discussion look up the term 'Mandate' so they know what they are talking about. A mandate is a formal order from a superior court or official to an inferior one. A mandate can be given and can be taken away. Heideran granted the Nefantar tribe a mandate, nothing more.
Actually you are quite wrong. Please reference The Definition of Mandate
Here is my favorite reference of what a MANDATED TERRITORY is: Mandated Territory.
Notice how it says controlled by a single government. If you reference the Ammatar history you then realize we are the government that runs our Mandate. We ARE part of the Amarr Empire, a province in control of Ammatars, and are under direction to help defend the empire and abide by it's laws, but we run our Mandate freely. Please do not spread misinformation.
Originally by: Arderich
Hardin makes a good job. Unlike some Nefantar he doesnÆt offer (many) weak points that can be criticized. The Mareks should learn from Hardin and compare their own words with the words coming from Hardin. If they still donÆt get the difference they can ask me as one of their hardest criticizers. I will explain why Hardins approach can be seen as a humble one while their way is offensive and not acceptable. I assume they could ask Hardin for a diplomatic lesson, too.
We have shown no less respect then what has been given Aredrich. We are humble about what we are. We are not humble when it comes to calling us something less then what we are. We are Ammatar. We are free and a part of the Empire.
Again reference Ammatar History and the definition of a Mandated Territory.
We welcome all Minmatar brethren that wish to step into the light, following your former tribal leaders into Salvation. Those interested can contact us at The House of Marek.
~Ostos Marek~
Popsickle:I start to lose faith.Ostos:Your faith in your Republic is melting away, Popsikle. |
Gaius Kador
PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.02.07 17:45:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Gaius Kador on 07/02/2007 17:42:24
Arderich, and his corporation, somehow have deluded themselves into believing their word has importance when it comes to Imperial matters.
Some of their advice is sound, but keep in mind their sworn allegiance to the Betrayer.
Enough of your meddling now, Arderich.
----------------------------------------------
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Ottom Ephesianos
Amarr
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.07 18:05:00 -
[16]
The Minmatar are a tribal community because they were farther from the gateway than the Amarrians and had access to ancient technologies that helped them reach space travel young in the societyÆs timeline. That is not to say that the Minmatar were lacking in any geniusÆs though.
The Amarrian leadership at that time made a tactical decision seeing how vast and arduous space was and changed religious doctrine in a bootleg internal government in order to promote and enforce enslaving the Minmatar people.
In the core belief systems of the Minmatar republic the definition of god is the same as the Amarr. There is no reason to maintain slavery at this stage in human development. The presence of such artifacts and documents dating back to the earliest stages of man are proof that we as a species are in our second technological revolution, which has been uninterrupted for some time.
However we as a race of fundamentally identical people need to rediscover this past to uncover the truth about ourselves. Slavery: The Amarr Empire is standing in our way.
---------------------------------
"Trust me I've done this before."
Elite R. Ephesianos
---------------------------------
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Ostos Marek
House of Marek
|
Posted - 2007.02.07 18:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ottom Ephesianos
The Amarrian leadership at that time made a tactical decision seeing how vast and arduous space was and changed religious doctrine in a bootleg internal government in order to promote and enforce enslaving the Minmatar people.
...
Slavery: The Amarr Empire is standing in our way.
I would like to see these original texts of doctrine that were changed to accomodate slavery? Back up your words instead of throwing garbage out to misinform.
Slavery is not standing in the way of anything. Slaves are being educated beyond what they would have known in their tribal societies, or wherever they were from. There are universities errected in Ammatar and also Amarr provinces for the education of slaves on not just religious matter, but job and science skills. We are educating the poor, the lost, the needy.
I would refer you toOgoel Marek's post on Slavery and Ogoel Marek's post "On Slavery 2.
You sir are a traitor to God and the Empire.
Popsickle:I start to lose faith.Ostos:Your faith in your Republic is melting away, Popsikle. |
Patamon
|
Posted - 2007.02.07 19:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ostos Marek
You sir are a traitor to God and the Empire.
This coming from a dog that has been whipped into submission. You may still have your growl and even some bite but you can only move as far as your Amarr masters leash allows. You have the same freedom of a house pet, you may do as you like as long as the master approves. If the master wants to kick the dog you must take it, if he wants to let you go hungry you must starve. You take tyhis abuse just as an abused pet and beg your master for love anyway hoping the pain will end.
I pity you Ostos...
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Ostos Marek
House of Marek
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Posted - 2007.02.07 19:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Patamon
Originally by: Ostos Marek
You sir are a traitor to God and the Empire.
This coming from a dog that has been whipped into submission. You may still have your growl and even some bite but you can only move as far as your Amarr masters leash allows. You have the same freedom of a house pet, you may do as you like as long as the master approves. If the master wants to kick the dog you must take it, if he wants to let you go hungry you must starve. You take tyhis abuse just as an abused pet and beg your master for love anyway hoping the pain will end.
I pity you Ostos...
You sir are inept. Learn your history. Ammatar History. Ammatars were never whipped, and we govern the Mandate (as I have described above with proof as well) freely. We are a province within the empire, just as any ammarian province. The only difference is Ammatars govern this province (The Mandate). Ammatars are just as free within the empire as an Amarrian is.
Learn your history before you speak of it, Patamon.
Popsickle:I start to lose faith.Ostos:Your faith in your Republic is melting away, Popsikle. |
Arderich
Bruderschaft des Wahrhaftigen
|
Posted - 2007.02.07 23:51:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Arderich on 07/02/2007 23:50:58
Quote:
We have reached a goal. Most Amarrians view us with respect. There are still some that view us as lesser being, but again there is always the exception.
Yes, most Amarrians view you with respect. Even I do have some respect for the things the Nefantar already have achieved.
Quote:
The Mandate IS a semi-autonomous state (please take a history lesson here The Ammatar. After you review your history, please not that we GOVERN our Mandate (State/province/whatever you will call it) just as any other Ammarian governor would govern their own province. We only have Ammarian ADVISORS. Ammatars rule as the governing body of the Ammatar Mandate.
Yes, the Ammatar Mandate is a semi-autonomous state (where Mandate is the more detailed description about the kind of the state). Yes, you govern yourselves. Yes, you have amarrian advisors.
Quote:
Actually you are quite wrong. Please reference The Definition of Mandate
Here is my favorite reference of what a MANDATED TERRITORY is: Mandated Territory.
Notice how it says controlled by a single government. If you reference the Ammatar history you then realize we are the government that runs our Mandate. We ARE part of the Amarr Empire, a province in control of Ammatars, and are under direction to help defend the empire and abide by it's laws, but we run our Mandate freely. Please do not spread misinformation.
Do not accuse me to spread misinformation. There are plenty descriptions of what a mandate is: several references to where the word mandate is used, the one I used, a very detailed description and many others.
I know you must have put some effort into finding one description that suits you, one that doesnÆt use statements such as a mandate is äa formal order from a superior court or official to an inferior oneô or äThe death of the mandator puts an end to the contract.ô or äThe contract of mandate may be dissolved by a change in the state of the partiesô or äAt common law, the party giving an authority is generally entitled to revoke it.ô
It doesnÆt matter what kind of descriptions you bring. You may fool some readers of the Galnet but not the Amarr Empire.
Your link to the mandated territory in no way interferes with my statements. I do not deny that the Nefantar currently govern themselves. I do not deny that the Nefantar currently are free (as one can be free from an amarrian point of view which should not be confused with the minmatar definition of freedom). I do not deny that all this is true. What I say is that this mandate was given to you and can be taken away from you anytime. I admit this most likely wonÆt happen as long as you prove to be worthy the trust given to you. Amarrians keep their promises and keep their contracts. ItÆs up to you.
The Nefantar without a doubt have many sympathizers within the Amarr Empire. I call most of them liberals but nevertheless you have sympathizers. I have not even denied that you have earned some sympathy. But I very much doubt that Archbishop, Hardin, Gaius Kador or whoever else will go further than Heideran did by giving you the mandate. If they do their very own investigations and do not trust a Nefantar more than me then they will see that I speak the truth. Some people might even come to the conclusion that the mandate ended with the death of Heideran. It is not me who is walking on thin ice.
Quote:
We are Ammatar. We are free and a part of the Empire.
Yes, but only as long as you know your place.
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Arderich
Bruderschaft des Wahrhaftigen
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Posted - 2007.02.07 23:53:00 -
[21]
So far everything I have said was something that every Amarrian could sign, no matter if he liked Heiderans decisions or not. Everything I have said was fully compatible with the policies of Heideran.
While I do not agree with Heiderans decision I do believe Heideran had his reason to grant the Nefantar this mandate: to create a buffer zone between Empire and rebels/Jove. The question why Heideran did not fully integrated the Nefantar into amarrian society is easy to answer with a counterquestion äWho wants a Nefantar as his neighbour in Dam-Torsad or any other city?ô.
Now I will talk about my personal opinion. This one most likely will find less acceptance û at least among the liberals. My personal opinion has nothing to do with the official statements I have made before. I feel I should make my personal opinion public as a warning for the future. A future that hopefully will not become reality.
I say the Minmatar are subhumans. From house Ardishapur and Sarum we have heard statements such as éants and verminæ or éunderserving savages creaturesæ and even Catiz Tash-Murkon - contrary to her father - used the term subhumans. Now we do have a serious problem. How could the Nefantar be such wonderful enlightened people when the rest of the Minmatar, who all have the very same roots, are subhumans? I do not have this problem because I do not see the Nefantar as wonderful enlightened wonder-minmatar. I see them as selfish, egocentric opportunists with their very own agenda. I do believe the Nefantar only are with the Amarr as long as it serves their very own interests. If they believe to see better options then I have no doubt they will show again their criminal minmatar roots and breach contracts, become traitors.
I say the Nefantar are not fully recognized citizens of the Amarr Empire like the Ni-Kunni. They live in their Ammatar Mandate / Nefantar reservation with an amarrian advisor / overseer. They might be free but they have the lowest social status, only slightly above slaves. They might be able to quote some scriptures and often do the right things û monkey see, monkey do û but no way that they are enlightened.
The Nefantar can dream about being the true rulers of all Minmatar as long as they want. I do not have a problem with it. No doubt that the Amarr are the true rulers over all Minmatar, including the Nefantar. No doubt that the amarrian territory of Heimatar etc is property of amarrian holders but not property of Nefantar elders. I have no problem if the Nefantar regard themselves as the creme de la creme of all subhumans.
We know the Nefantar govern themselves within the Ammatar Mandate but their foreign policies must have the consent of the Amarr. Today it might only be a wild speculation but if this speculation turns out to be true then the Nefantar will face serious problems. I am talking about the rumours that the Nefantar are trying to sell amarrian property within rebel territory to Caldari. My mentor Ardor always said ænever trust a Minmataræ. The Nefantar will not be able to betray me. I follow the advice of Ardor. Those who trust the Nefantar might be disappointed one day and might look like a fool. LetÆs pray it will not happen. LetÆs pray the Nefantar continue to stay on the right path that maybe one day will lead them to the same fate of the Khanid bloodline. I have my doubts and I will not run ignorant into trouble.
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Shazzakh
Minmatar
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.08 00:04:00 -
[22]
So sad to see fellow kinsmen battle against each other.
-==-
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Ostos Marek
House of Marek
|
Posted - 2007.02.08 03:23:00 -
[23]
Our foreign policies are determined by the empire, just as any other province within the Empire, Amarrian or not. This has nothing to do with us being a free people or not, sub-human or not, enlightened or not.
Your definition: "a formal order from a superior court or official to an inferior one" does not say anything already unknown. Our governing body is beneath the governing body of the Empire because we are a province. I see nothing of this saying we are sub-human, untrustworthy, or less than another. This again still works as any other province. A province's governing body is an inferior governing body to the Empire's. The structure for how we relate to the Empire is the same as any Amarr province.
The fact that the Mandate can be revoked: I do not deny that. The Amarrians have no reason to revoke the mandate, as we Ammatar are faithful both to them and to God. The point you make saying it still can be taken away is true of any province. The Emperor, if he so wished, could oust any provincial leader or entire province if he wised and it be the will of God. This is nothing new.
The fact that this province, which is no different than any other Amarr Province (just that its governed by Ammatars), is called the Ammatar Mandate is because it was Mandated TO US for our faith, loyalty, and devotion to Him and His Empire.
As Hardin has pointed out, the Tribalistic Minmatar can learn from us.
Popsickle:I start to lose faith.Ostos:Your faith in your Republic is melting away, Popsikle. |
Arderich
Bruderschaft des Wahrhaftigen
|
Posted - 2007.02.08 04:09:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ostos Marek
Our foreign policies are determined by the empire, just as any other province within the Empire, Amarrian or not. This has nothing to do with us being a free people or not, sub-human or not, enlightened or not.
Your definition: "a formal order from a superior court or official to an inferior one" does not say anything already unknown. Our governing body is beneath the governing body of the Empire because we are a province. I see nothing of this saying we are sub-human, untrustworthy, or less than another. This again still works as any other province. A province's governing body is an inferior governing body to the Empire's. The structure for how we relate to the Empire is the same as any Amarr province.
The fact that the Mandate can be revoked: I do not deny that. The Amarrians have no reason to revoke the mandate, as we Ammatar are faithful both to them and to God. The point you make saying it still can be taken away is true of any province. The Emperor, if he so wished, could oust any provincial leader or entire province if he wised and it be the will of God. This is nothing new.
The fact that this province, which is no different than any other Amarr Province (just that its governed by Ammatars), is called the Ammatar Mandate is because it was Mandated TO US for our faith, loyalty, and devotion to Him and His Empire.
As Hardin has pointed out, the Tribalistic Minmatar can learn from us.
This is a statement I can accept.
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Ostos Marek
House of Marek
|
Posted - 2007.02.08 13:06:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Arderich
This is a statement I can accept.
Arderich, I'm glad we have come to a peaceful agreement on this. God's light has opened both our minds.
Popsickle:I start to lose faith.Ostos:Your faith in your Republic is melting away, Popsikle. |
Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.02.08 13:07:00 -
[26]
And so can I.
I just wish more Minmatars would adopt the Ammatar path. It would be so much better for them in the long run...
But the majority tend not to see past the immediate needs of their tribes. This is a tendency which will lead to their eventual downfall - not that I am complaining as then we Amarr will be able to reducate them...
------------------------------
CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607
AMARR VICTOR |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216
|
Posted - 2007.02.08 13:13:00 -
[27]
Lord Arderich, respectfully in response to your suggestion:
Quote:
I see them as selfish, egocentric opportunists with their very own agenda. I do believe the Nefantar only are with the Amarr as long as it serves their very own interests. If they believe to see better options then I have no doubt they will show again their criminal minmatar roots and breach contracts, become traitors.
This statement in my view is not totally correct, but there is a strong element of truth in it! Allow me to elucidate before this appears treasonous...
If I were to speak for just myself, the above quote would be wholly untrue. However, I am convinced there are many Ammatar who are 'closet-terrorists'. Purges within the Delictum 23216 ranks have begun, removing undesirables who harbour impure dispositions towards the Holy Empire.
I believe that those souls considered 'Ammatar' are not homogenous in their views. There are the TRUE Ammatar, and the pretenders.
Devotion, Fanaticism, Tenacity...
First of all, the true Ammatar. There are many, like myself, who embraced the Faith without an iota of doubt in its validity. I have sworn myself to be a weapon of the Empire, a menace to its enemies wherever I may face them, even should it lead to my repeated death.
To ensure that the pilots of Delictum 23216 are those of the true, they are put through enduring hardship. There is no resting on the laurels of our superiority to the heathens. We actively hunt them and will show them no mercy until they repent. There is no material gain from such zealotry. This tests the mettle of even the hardiest of pretenders, to reveal their true colours, and they WILL reveal their true colours in the end! We will show them no pity.
The pretenders are a problem that I approach ruthlessly. Minmatar cowards seeking to further their worldly interests by associating with those of the truth. Peace and stability was never achieved by love of material things. This, verily, is a cause for war. True peace has been established in the Mandate due to the loyalty and faith of the enlightened, the true, or San Matari!
As for the war between the Ammatar and the heathens. We did not start this war, it was forced upon us when the crime of 23216 plunged three of the regions of the Empire into anarchy. These regions: Heimatar, Metropolis and Molden heath are of those that the Ammatar would administer. We cannot let our lands lay occupied by the terrorist oppressor.
Accusing the True Ammatar of 'betrayal' is absolute nonsense. However, the loathsome pretenders you refer to, who are unworthy of our name, are those who even I would label a traitor. They are traitors to the very criminals they were borne into. Moreover, they are heretics, cheats and cowards.
I hope this may increase your knowledge of the Delictum 23216 cause, and by derivation, the Ammatar view of their position.
Yours respectfully,
Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216 Official forums |
Ostos Marek
House of Marek
|
Posted - 2007.02.08 13:16:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Hardin
And so can I.
I just wish more Minmatars would adopt the Ammatar path. It would be so much better for them in the long run...
But the majority tend not to see past the immediate needs of their tribes. This is a tendency which will lead to their eventual downfall - not that I am complaining as then we Amarr will be able to reducate them...
Continued work on our course of action will eventually bring the Minmatar into the light. Steady is our course.
Hardin... I invite you to our communications forum at www.houseofmarek.org for some discussion, if you are willing.
Popsickle:I start to lose faith.Ostos:Your faith in your Republic is melting away, Popsikle. |
Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.02.08 14:27:00 -
[29]
I am glad I started this discussion if only for the contributions of House of Marek and Delictum who have provided an insight into their slightly varying ideologies.
The development of these two organisations is a clear demonstration of the growing self confidence of the Ammatar as part of the Amarr Empire...
------------------------------
CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607
AMARR VICTOR |
Ostos Marek
House of Marek
|
Posted - 2007.02.08 15:23:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Ostos Marek on 08/02/2007 15:20:23
Originally by: Hardin
I am glad I started this discussion if only for the contributions of House of Marek and Delictum who have provided an insight into their slightly varying ideologies.
The development of these two organisations is a clear demonstration of the growing self confidence of the Ammatar as part of the Amarr Empire...
Although slightly varying, the facts hold true for both House of Marek and Delictum. We are both loyal to the Empire. We are both loyal to god. We shall reclaim the Minmatar peoples for God, the Empire, and the Mandate.
As Lord Scagga has pointed out, there are pretenders that state they are Ammatar, but are really terrorists hidden within the ranks. This is a situation all governments/corporations must deal with. We all work to eradicate the infections, which I view as small due to (as Scagga would word it) tenacity and devotion of our peoples for the Glory of God, the Empire, and the Mandate.
The Ammatar are a confident people. We have no fear for fear only exists when you fear death without God. Through the aid of Amarr insight and faith, we have been set on a path for good, a path for God and His Word, to better the Mandate and the Empire.
Popsickle:I start to lose faith.Ostos:Your faith in your Republic is melting away, Popsikle. |
Ogoel Marek
|
Posted - 2007.02.08 15:27:00 -
[31]
The Mandate is a Semi-Autonomous state. That means that the Empire has given us complete control of Mandate space under an Amarr advisor. I agree tha it can be taken away at any time. We are just here, like any God fearing citizen, as long as we remain loyal to God and Empire.
Being part of a Noble family, the Family of Marek, our ideology might be a little bit more "Mandate" oriented. Do not confuse this with us putting "The Mandate" above God and Empire, this is not the case. We will fight to protect the Empire and its interest wherever we are needed. But being a noble family, unless the inmediate need arises, we deal with the issues that directly affect our Empire given Mandate.
Staying true to the Ammatar way is a monumental task. We must deal with Imperial political tensions on the one hand and on the other we must deal harshly with our own lost tribes.
My opinions on the frictions that sometimes arise between the Amarr and us are just that.... my opinions. Our enemies best not confuse a brotherly scuffle with hatred because its not the same thing. If you hurt my brother I will forget the last brotherly scuffle and join him to put some hurt in you.
For God, His Holy Empire, and House of Marek!
Ogoel Marek
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Ostos Marek
House of Marek
|
Posted - 2007.02.08 15:34:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ogoel Marek
Being part of a Noble family, the Family of Marek, our ideology might be a little bit more "Mandate" oriented. Do not confuse this with us putting "The Mandate" above God and Empire, this is not the case. We will fight to protect the Empire and its interest wherever we are needed. But being a noble family, unless the inmediate need arises, we deal with the issues that directly affect our Empire given Mandate.
Staying true to the Ammatar way is a monumental task. We must deal with Imperial political tensions on the one hand and on the other we must deal harshly with our own lost tribes.
My opinions on the frictions that sometimes arise between the Amarr and us are just that.... my opinions. Our enemies best not confuse a brotherly scuffle with hatred because its not the same thing. If you hurt my brother I will forget the last brotherly scuffle and join him to put some hurt in you.
Agreed.
Popsickle:I start to lose faith.Ostos:Your faith in your Republic is melting away, Popsikle. |
Cipher7
Acme Technologies Incorporated
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.08 17:22:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ostos Marek
Slavery is not standing in the way of anything. Slaves are being educated
Educated to be what, a second class citizen?
Yeah you really need to go to school to be considered "genetically inferior."
This isn't a struggle between two systems of government, it's a struggle of one ethnic group trying to press another into eternal subjugation.
They're not asking you to join their system, they're asking you to serve it.
Not because you're not smart enough and need their help, but because you were born to a Minmatar family.
Wake up and smell the arty, Mr Marek.
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Ogoel Marek
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Posted - 2007.02.08 17:50:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Ogoel Marek on 08/02/2007 17:47:36
Originally by: Cipher7
Educated to be what, a second class citizen?
Yeah you really need to go to school to be considered "genetically inferior."
This isn't a struggle between two systems of government, it's a struggle of one ethnic group trying to press another into eternal subjugation.
They're not asking you to join their system, they're asking you to serve it.
Not because you're not smart enough and need their help, but because you were born to a Minmatar family.
Wake up and smell the arty, Mr Marek.
I dont expect a mind still bound to obscurity to understand this concept. Maybe the following explenation might bring you closer to seeing the light one day.
You are already a slave Cipher7. You are a slave to the lies of oblivion. You are a slave to the freedom you so love. Freedom to do what? To fall in the entrapments of chaos?
It is in service, that every God fearing citizen of the Empire finds true happiness. Serving God, actively serving His Holy Empire, and serving one another is the key. This is the true freedom, the freedom of the spirit.
Ogoel Marek.
House of Marek
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Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.02.08 18:06:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Cipher7
They're not asking you to join their system, they're asking you to serve it.
Not because you're not smart enough and need their help, but because you were born to a Minmatar family.
And what is wrong with service?
I serve my Empire every day. That is an Amarrian's duty. The Ammatar have not been singled out to serve - we all do it. It is what the Amarr Empire is built on.
Selfless sacrifice and service to the cause of our Empire is what has made the Amarr Empire the longest standing civilisation in history. To serve is good.
Your ignorant remarks highlight once again why the so-called 'free' Minmatar still have a lot to learn. Your selfish pursuit of freedom means that you will never find peace because by its very nature your definition of freedom will clash with your neighbours - which in turn leads to conflict.
Why not accept that what works, give up your selfish ways and serve the greater good - the Amarrian Empire - bringing light and civilisation to this fractured galaxy which would surely sink into anarchy without us holding up the flame of example.
------------------------------
CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607
AMARR VICTOR |
Ostos Marek
House of Marek
|
Posted - 2007.02.08 18:24:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Cipher7
Educated to be what, a second class citizen?
Yeah you really need to go to school to be considered "genetically inferior."
You must start somewhere. The Ammatar are gaining acceptance as normal citizens of the Empire, and not second class. We have had our own trials and tribulations, but we embraced faith and it was much more smooth for us than those who deny the light of God, the Creator.
Come join us Cipher7. We shall welcome you, and teach you.
Popsickle:I start to lose faith.Ostos:Your faith in your Republic is melting away, Popsikle. |
Nachshon
Caldari
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.09 01:47:00 -
[37]
If you send the Reclaiming against us, you will have one hell of a fight on your hands. Not only will you have to face the might of the Matari capsuleers, but the Gallente would quickly join us as well. The Caldari, meanwhile, will take bets on the outcome.
__________________________________________
What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ. |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216
|
Posted - 2007.02.09 02:06:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Nachshon
If you send the Reclaiming against us, you will have one hell of a fight on your hands. Not only will you have to face the might of the Matari capsuleers, but the Gallente would quickly join us as well. The Caldari, meanwhile, will take bets on the outcome.
The only problem we have had with reclaiming you is the extortionate costs involved in repeatedly having to bribe concord.
Delictum 23216 Official forums |
Nachshon
Caldari
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.09 02:11:00 -
[39]
I see little evidence that a Reclaiming is underway - though I may be living in the wrong part of the Republic.
__________________________________________
What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ. |
Ostos Marek
House of Marek
|
Posted - 2007.02.09 13:27:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Ostos Marek on 09/02/2007 13:24:09
Originally by: Nachshon
I see little evidence that a Reclaiming is underway - though I may be living in the wrong part of the Republic.
That's because we are not after the Caldari for the Great Reclaiming. It is our lost Minmatar brethren we are after.
Now go back to Gradient and NMTZ, because they are paying you too much to talk on subjects you do not understand.
Popsickle:I start to lose faith.Ostos:Your faith in your Republic is melting away, Popsikle. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.09 14:25:00 -
[41]
Oh, I assure you Gradients talk quite enough without us paying to them for it. 
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Nachshon
Caldari
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.09 18:41:00 -
[42]
We'd have to be paid NOT to talk.
__________________________________________
What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ. |
Ostos Marek
House of Marek
|
Posted - 2007.02.09 19:09:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Nachshon
We'd have to be paid NOT to talk.
Even better....
Popsickle:I start to lose faith.Ostos:Your faith in your Republic is melting away, Popsikle. |
Nachshon
Caldari
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.09 19:12:00 -
[44]
The going rate for me to stop talking is 10 million ISK an hour. Be advised I may cease our agreement at any time.
__________________________________________
What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ. |
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