| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Terrah Chain
Space Isolation
0
   |
Posted - 2016.03.02 16:41:14 -
[1] - Quote
After reading through the CSM Summit session minutes I gave some thought to how to encourage early PvP experience. One way would be to give new players an opportunity to engage each other. There are a few ways I thought this could be done each with it's own pros and cons.
1. A new player mission to duel another player. Instruct the new player how to start or accept a duel. In most starting systems there are usually several new pilots, should not be hard too hard to find a willing partner also interested in learning some PvP.
To make this work without being an undock duel spam nightmare for other new players, I would suggest a new beacon is created in starter zones called Dueling Point or something. The mission would tell the capsuleer to go to the beacon and challenge another player. To hopefully avoid waiting too long, there could be a system message generated every time someone warped to and approached the beacon, encouraging those interested in PvP to go have a duel.
2. Similar to the new beacon, but a gated location only allowing rookie ships in, ships would be made suspect on entering (proper warning pop-up given). Again a system wide message that someone has entered and encouraging others to grab a rookie ship and try their hand at PvP.
3. Similar to #2 but more like Faction Warfare, with complexes of various sizes limiting ships depending on complex size. Ideally there would be a pilot age limit if technically feasible. Again suspect timers would be employed on entry. For best NPE, a new timer that was only active while in the complex would be best, so as not to be suspect while trying to continue on with other new player missions and taks
Biggest downside is it is subject to enough players in system willing to participate.
In all three some NPCs could be provided as targets while waiting for other players to show up. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden
Workers Trade Federation
688
|
Posted - 2016.03.02 19:04:24 -
[2] - Quote
Learning how to PVP is through trial-and-error... Not some kind of mission where CCP is holding your hand all the way to success. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin.
DARKNESS.
2349
|
Posted - 2016.03.02 19:48:27 -
[3] - Quote
How about we funnel them into EVE University instead where they can learn the basic ropes of PVP from experienced players in a social environment and with adequate guidance instead of a secluded area where people just dabble around clueless?
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
Terrah Chain
Space Isolation
0
|
Posted - 2016.03.02 19:51:51 -
[4] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:Learning how to PVP is through trial-and-error... Not some kind of mission where CCP is holding your hand all the way to success.
Did you even read my suggestions? Not one of these has hand holding. It would all be trial and error fighting other noobs. Some will likely be knowledgeable and skilled alts. All the ideas proposed would encourage new players to engage each other to get a first taste of PvP very early on in the game. Using a mission to encourage the first steps into PvP is because that is how the New User Experience is built, suggested opportunities and starter missions. The NPCs can provided tips and tactics but it will be real PvP not PvE.
|
Terrah Chain
Space Isolation
0
|
Posted - 2016.03.02 19:57:47 -
[5] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:How about we funnel them into EVE University instead where they can learn the basic ropes of PVP from experienced players in a social environment and with adequate guidance instead of a secluded area where people just dabble around clueless?
I agree player corps are the place to send new players to really learn about the game. I would not think CCP would advocate any one in particular though. That said this idea is not a replacement to moving into real PvP just as the Exploration starter missions are not real exploration. This is a way to take a player day one and give them PvP opportunities in the very first starting areas. Just like it is good for a player to run through a few starter agent missions this would be a PvP equivalent. |
Sir Constantin
49
|
Posted - 2016.03.02 20:41:50 -
[6] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:Learning how to PVP is through trial-and-error... Not some kind of mission where CCP is holding your hand all the way to success.
The AI used in burner missions with meta/T2 fits would help the new players to gain some semi-pvp experience.
Like improving the player reactions so they wont forget to activate a module or launching drones, teaching them what is brawling, kiting, e-war without losing their ships. The rats need to be programmed to stop shooting when the player is in 50% structure or less.
Could be fun and can teach a player the basics without losing 10+ frigates to other players. |
Lucy Callagan
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
47
|
Posted - 2016.03.02 21:50:11 -
[7] - Quote
some ppl (me for instance) would find enjoyable to sit in these "plexes" in an arty svipul and pop noob ships all day.
Frugu.net
|
Terrah Chain
Space Isolation
0
|
Posted - 2016.03.02 22:20:30 -
[8] - Quote
Lucy Callagan wrote:some ppl (me for instance) would find enjoyable to sit in these "plexes" in an arty svipul and pop noob ships all day.
Hence the need to put ship limits, age limits, or SP limits on the plexes. We know ship limits are possible, and given the intent of these plexes it should be limited to T1 ships. A more interesting limit would be age or SP on top of ship limits, to help keep griefers from ruining the game for new players. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
4264
|
Posted - 2016.03.02 22:53:03 -
[9] - Quote
Ship or SP limits wouldn't stop people sitting around in faction fir daredeviils or whatever, and age limits would punish more people trying to use the things properly, since it's really not hard to reroll an alt if you want to camp the things.
On top of all that, do you really think that a system enforced 1v1, with limited ships and none of the regular eve pvp shenanigans is actually going to teach anyone anything? |
perseus skye
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 00:34:22 -
[10] - Quote
Lucy Callagan wrote:some ppl (me for instance) would find enjoyable to sit in these "plexes" in an arty svipul and pop noob ships all day.
You enjoy shooting noob ships ? Haha haha haha |
Terrah Chain
Space Isolation
0
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 14:46:58 -
[11] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Ship or SP limits wouldn't stop people sitting around in faction fir daredeviils or whatever, and age limits would punish more people trying to use the things properly, since it's really not hard to reroll an alt if you want to camp the things.
On top of all that, do you really think that a system enforced 1v1, with limited ships and none of the regular eve pvp shenanigans is actually going to teach anyone anything?
Yes I think getting in a ship and shooting at a real person and being shot by a real person is a good place to start PvP. I think it would be less intimidating doing it as part of the NPE than trying to figure it out on your own. And will give a basic idea of what fighting something other than a low level NPC is like.
Just like all noob activities, people that get into a corp, have friends, or are more adventurous, will skip over these beginner activities and move right into the real stuff. This is here for those people that might end up mining for the first month because they didn't experience any PvP during the NPE.
As for griefers, there are always people that will abuse the system and not care about the intent of it or the effect on the game. If there were an SP limit of about 1-1.5 million, it would be fairly limiting. If pros wanted to camp these new players, it would give them more real life PvP experience than fighting other new players. So the new player, while not likely to win the fight, could still benefit from it.
Also, I think a flagged Daredevil, in faction modules would draw some hunters out often enough to discourage that tactic. But if you are really concerned about abuse, limit the plex to rookie ships. Nothing lost for the new players other than modules, and maybe it could be a repeatable mission that provided a full set of civilian modules so true rookies could get out there and die gloriously many times. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1643
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 19:58:25 -
[12] - Quote
The only way to learn pvp is for them to got out and do it the only way to expedite that is to find puerile to help you. The only thing ccp can do is make it so pulis are constantly losing their ships in the not so they get over that fear
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Lugh Crow-Slave
1643
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 19:59:45 -
[13] - Quote
perseus skye wrote:Lucy Callagan wrote:some ppl (me for instance) would find enjoyable to sit in these "plexes" in an arty svipul and pop noob ships all day. You enjoy shooting noob ships ? Haha haha haha
Have you meet the people who play eve? It's about the kill mail not what's on it
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Lucy Callagan
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
47
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 21:47:20 -
[14] - Quote
perseus skye wrote:Lucy Callagan wrote:some ppl (me for instance) would find enjoyable to sit in these "plexes" in an arty svipul and pop noob ships all day. You enjoy shooting noob ships ? Haha haha haha
i enjoy shitting other ppl's day.
Frugu.net
|
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
4264
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 22:07:23 -
[15] - Quote
Terrah Chain wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Ship or SP limits wouldn't stop people sitting around in faction fir daredeviils or whatever, and age limits would punish more people trying to use the things properly, since it's really not hard to reroll an alt if you want to camp the things.
On top of all that, do you really think that a system enforced 1v1, with limited ships and none of the regular eve pvp shenanigans is actually going to teach anyone anything? Yes I think getting in a ship and shooting at a real person and being shot by a real person is a good place to start PvP. I think it would be less intimidating doing it as part of the NPE than trying to figure it out on your own. And will give a basic idea of what fighting something other than a low level NPC is like. Just like all noob activities, people that get into a corp, have friends, or are more adventurous, will skip over these beginner activities and move right into the real stuff. This is here for those people that might end up mining for the first month because they didn't experience any PvP during the NPE. As for griefers, there are always people that will abuse the system and not care about the intent of it or the effect on the game. If there were an SP limit of about 1-1.5 million, it would be fairly limiting. If pros wanted to camp these new players, it would give them more real life PvP experience than fighting other new players. So the new player, while not likely to win the fight, could still benefit from it. Also, I think a flagged Daredevil, in faction modules would draw some hunters out often enough to discourage that tactic. But if you are really concerned about abuse, limit the plex to rookie ships. Nothing lost for the new players other than modules, and maybe it could be a repeatable mission that provided a full set of civilian modules so true rookies could get out there and die gloriously many times.
I don't understand how you think something so artificially limited is going to teach anyone how to actually PVP.
LEt's say you have bob the newbie, king of rookie ship arena PVP. What do you think is going to happen when he takes a ship into lowsec? |
Terrah Chain
Space Isolation
0
|
Posted - 2016.03.04 19:58:11 -
[16] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:
I don't understand how you think something so artificially limited is going to teach anyone how to actually PVP.
LEt's say you have bob the newbie, king of rookie ship arena PVP. What do you think is going to happen when he takes a ship into lowsec?
I don't understand why it is hard to understand. You argue it is limited, it is. But limited is what all of the early new player missions, and tasks are.
Would you say there is no value in the career missions that teach a player the basics of flying, running a mission, interacting with modules & ammo, mining, basic industry, etc, because they are so limited?
I still expect the new player to get blown out of space when they venture into low for the first time. But I expect them to understand what just happened to them instead scratching their heads trying to figure out why a player just blew them up. I also expect that new players would lose, hopefully several ships during the NPE, and again would be better mentally prepared for that loss when it happens in real PvP. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
44627
|
Posted - 2016.03.04 21:21:32 -
[17] - Quote
Two downsides to this that I'm not sure can be removed:
1. Time just sitting at the beacon waiting for someone else
The system message proposal will let others know that someone is looking for a fight, but it doesn't mean any of them will necessarily go. They'll only go if they are also looking to pvp.
So it's possible in different times that someone will warp to the beacon and sit there with no opponent.
After a few minutes that will be pretty boring and just encourage them to go back to other missions or mining, which I think would be the opposite of the desired outcome.
2. Malcanis Law
Vets, already very experienced in pvp will be able to roll new accounts/characters and then being experienced in range control, transversal, fitting, ammunition selection, etc. (and possibly with an off grid boosting alt in system) will be able to hammer any real new players that come along for their pvp experience.
Seems that might also not be very encouraging for people as I don't think the idea is about vets going up against new players, but new players v new players.
There's also the skill injector issue. The idea of a new player now means little in terms of equality between themselves. Even without any real knowledge it's possible to be fitting T2 guns etc in the first minute of the game. Someone that doesn't use injectors will be at a disadvantage to another player of equal experience, that does.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Terrah Chain
Space Isolation
0
|
Posted - 2016.03.04 21:55:58 -
[18] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Two downsides to this that I'm not sure can be removed:
1. Time just sitting at the beacon waiting for someone else
The system message proposal will let others know that someone is looking for a fight, but it doesn't mean any of them will necessarily go. They'll only go if they are also looking to pvp.
So it's possible in different times that someone will warp to the beacon and sit there with no opponent.
After a few minutes that will be pretty boring and just encourage them to go back to other missions or mining, which I think would be the opposite of the desired outcome.
2. Malcanis Law
Vets, already very experienced in pvp will be able to roll new accounts/characters and then being experienced in range control, transversal, fitting, ammunition selection, etc. (and possibly with an off grid boosting alt in system) will be able to hammer any real new players that come along for their pvp experience.
Seems that might also not be very encouraging for people as I don't think the idea is about vets going up against new players, but new players v new players.
There's also the skill injector issue. The idea of a new player now means little in terms of equality between themselves. Even without any real knowledge it's possible to be fitting T2 guns etc in the first minute of the game. Someone that doesn't use injectors will be at a disadvantage to another player of equal experience, that does.
I agree, those are the main draw back I see too.
1. While not a fix to the problem, but a way to ease it, would be to have some NPC training options that would be present as well. Could even direct the pilot to Flight School videos while waiting. And after x amount of time of no engagement the mission agent, or what ever, messages the pilot to return home and try another time as no one was brave enough to accept the challenge. The lesson learned is still an accurate PVP lesson, when you go out looking for a fight, you don't always find one.
2. The hardest thing to game against is other players looking to get around the intentions of the system. The only solution is to make in unappealing and restrictive to anyone other than a new player. If SP limits could be enforced, this would limit the advantages most pilots would want to bring in the form of T2 modules. If limited to rookie ships, not going to be much to brag about either. This wouldn't stop it from happening, but it probably wouldn't happen all that often either. And for the times a Vet welped a noob, it still gives a realistic PvP experience early on. |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |