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redrick002
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Posted - 2007.02.07 19:34:00 -
[1]
There are no passive all-attribute shield hardeners.
If the skills of X- shiled compensation are all 5, it is better to use passive hardeners than active one.
A normal T2 all-resist armor hardener can bring 45% all resist using 1 slot. However, there are no shilds can do this.
Don't say armor repair rate is slow and they need 2 large armor repairs, the shield also need a shield amp to reach the same HP/capactior effciency.
Those armor tanks can save 1 slot than shield tanks.
Should I swich to armor tank? 
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Kimvestor
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Posted - 2007.02.07 19:37:00 -
[2]
yes, if you want to tank angels with your 55% explosive resists on armor... Let me know how it worked :P
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Akkarin Pagan
Minmatar
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.07 19:38:00 -
[3]
iirc, the shield / armour compensation skills work like fitting mods to a ship. You gain 5% of the reamianing percentage per level, not 5% on top of the base resist of the mod.
As for armour v shield tanking, it really depends on the ship. Armour tanking uses more pg, and less cap, swo is generally used for a short range ship, whereas shield tanking works better for long range ships (Hence all the caldari ships being natural shield tankers, while Gallente ships tend to armour tank)
Akkarin
<3 - Immy
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Kimvestor
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Posted - 2007.02.07 19:39:00 -
[4]
what he said. On a Maelstrom for example you get 7,5% shield boost per lvl - so you dont really need a shield amp.
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Laythun
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 19:40:00 -
[5]
they are different, end of story.
CEI's own Undercover Brother [MIA]
It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.02.07 19:41:00 -
[6]
Shields:
- Regen over time, making it possible to passive tank.
- Booster/repair BETTER than armor, IMHO
- You still have your armor for them to get through before you're really in trouble, if the shield tank fails. Leaving you less in the "Oh sh!t!, I can't stop the slow progression to my hull..."
Armor:
- Passive resistances
- Some time to prepare for repair, letting them knaw on your shields for about a minute.
I wish I could shield tank my Vexor, I had the white-knuckling as I realize I can't tank all the rats and try to keep up the repairing long enough to align, and GTFO.
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Maza Nostra
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 19:42:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 07/02/2007 19:40:20
 Originally by: Akkarin Pagan
iirc, the shield / armour compensation skills work like fitting mods to a ship. You gain 5% of the reamianing percentage per level, not 5% on top of the base resist of the mod.
wrong - the compensation skills add 5% of the resistance value the passive hardener has per level .. in other words - 20% passive hardener with lvl5 compensation means ... 20% + 25% of those 20% = 25%
it's not 20% + 25% like 45% per hardener
it's not 20% + 25%*0.8 like a second (unstacked) hardener
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Hektor Ramirez
Outer Ring Tourist Information Center
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Posted - 2007.02.07 19:44:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 07/02/2007 19:43:29
Originally by: redrick002
There are no passive all-attribute shield hardeners.
Damage Control, even if not affected by compensation skills. On the other hand it's not used in the primary tanking slot-row so essentially you're still up 1 slot compared to armor tanks.
Quote:
A normal T2 all-resist armor hardener can bring 45% all resist using 1 slot.
T2 Energized Adaptive Nano does 25% and requires 5 skills at lvl5 (Hull Upgrades, 4xCompensation Skills)
T2 Invul Field does 30% to all and only requires Tactical Shield Manipulation 4.
Armor Tankers are looking at a month worth of training only to fit a mod that does 5% less resist than a mod shield tankers train 3 days for so...no.
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2007.02.07 19:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: redrick002
There are no passive all-attribute shield hardeners.
If the skills of X- shiled compensation are all 5, it is better to use passive hardeners than active one.
A normal T2 all-resist armor hardener can bring 45% all resist using 1 slot. However, there are no shilds can do this.
Don't say armor repair rate is slow and they need 2 large armor repairs, the shield also need a shield amp to reach the same HP/capactior effciency.
Those armor tanks can save 1 slot than shield tanks.
Should I swich to armor tank?
Can armour tankers please have a 30% active "invuln" in that case, thats 5% more than passive EANM even after spending months and months getting 4 compensation skills to 5.
Armour tanking != Shield Tanking. Don't just make everything the same to balance them. Shesh.
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.02.07 19:47:00 -
[10]
Don't forget that on a shield tank once your shields are gone you still need to burn through armor and structure. On an armor tank once armor is gone you are a lot closer to "game over" for that ship.
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.02.07 19:50:00 -
[11]
Switch to armour tank then. Whatever stops you whining makes me happy.
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Caillech
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.07 20:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
wrong - the compensation skills add 5% of the resistance value the passive hardener has per level .. in other words - 20% passive hardener with lvl5 compensation means ... 20% + 25% of those 20% = 25%
it's not 20% + 25% like 45% per hardener
it's not 20% + 25%*0.8 like a second (unstacked) hardener
This can't be true - if I take an Estamel's Heat Dissipation Amp (49.6%), then I would get 62% resist with lv 5 compensation? So the skill has an additive effect the better the mod?
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Maza Nostra
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 20:06:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 07/02/2007 20:03:22
Originally by: Caillech
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
wrong - the compensation skills add 5% of the resistance value the passive hardener has per level .. in other words - 20% passive hardener with lvl5 compensation means ... 20% + 25% of those 20% = 25%
it's not 20% + 25% like 45% per hardener
it's not 20% + 25%*0.8 like a second (unstacked) hardener
This can't be true - if I take an Estamel's Heat Dissipation Amp (49.6%), then I would get 62% resist with lv 5 compensation? So the skill has an additive effect the better the mod?
if i'm not talking crap - then yes 
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.02.07 20:08:00 -
[14]
a turned-off invul field
there's your passive resist-vs-all
(just needs a bit of skilling for the full 15% glory  )
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Rhaegar Targarin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.02.07 20:16:00 -
[15]
It sounds like shield tanking is better if you are in a ship that can shield tank, as in it has the appropriate number of slots and preferably bonuses to shield tanking.
That said, besides specialized functions, it would seem it is almost always best to fly a ship that was made for shield tanking over an armor tanking ship if possible.
Am I way off base here?
Rhaegar Targarin - Minmatar Combat Pilot |
Eight Ace
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Posted - 2007.02.07 20:24:00 -
[16]
From what I have heard the very finest shield tanks and shield tanking specialist pilots are significantly better than the very finest armor tanks, below that level armor tanking probably has a slight edge as it's a bit cheaper and the armor tanking ships have more lows, in general, than the shield tankers have mids.
Also dont forget that there is no armor tanking equivalent to 'Shield Compensation'
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redrick002
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Posted - 2007.02.07 20:24:00 -
[17]
wow, a hot discussion. Thanks for the reply.
I made a mistake when count the real resistance last time.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte is correct, I just check my shield resistance in the game.
For the shield/armor tank discussion, I think the main problem for shield tanks is we need to use up the mid slot, which put us to a horrible stage in PVP duel.
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Eight Ace
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Posted - 2007.02.07 20:24:00 -
[18]
From what I have heard the very finest shield tanks and shield tanking specialist pilots are significantly better than the very finest armor tanks, below that level armor tanking probably has a slight edge as it's a bit cheaper and the armor tanking ships have more lows, in general, than the shield tankers have mids.
Also dont forget that there is no armor tanking equivalent to 'Shield Compensation'
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redrick002
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Posted - 2007.02.07 20:24:00 -
[19]
wow, a hot discussion. Thanks for the reply.
I made a mistake when count the real resistance last time.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte is correct, I just check my shield resistance in the game.
For the shield/armor tank discussion, I think the main problem for shield tanks is we need to use up the mid slot, which put us to a horrible stage in PVP duel.
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redrick002
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Posted - 2007.02.07 20:27:00 -
[20]
"Armor compensation" is the same as shield compensation.
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redrick002
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Posted - 2007.02.07 20:27:00 -
[21]
"Armor compensation" is the same as shield compensation.
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Taaketa Frist
Firing Squad
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 20:28:00 -
[22]
Drake setup for tanking angels
Med
Explosive Shield Hardner
Kinetic Sheild Hardner
4*TechII Shield Expanders
Lo
2*Shield Power Relay 2*PDS II
No shield boast needed against most angel rats with exception to Saints And Thrones in the passive tank with active hardners and with the right power/shield skills you should have no problem tanking them and ratting at the same time with Tech 2 missile launchers. Took me 2-3 months to perfect the tank via skills.
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Dang nabit |
Hektor Ramirez
Outer Ring Tourist Information Center
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Posted - 2007.02.07 20:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: redrick002
"Armor compensation" is the same as shield compensation.
Again...no.
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Hektor Ramirez
Outer Ring Tourist Information Center
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Posted - 2007.02.07 20:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Eight Ace
Also dont forget that there is no armor tanking equivalent to 'Shield Compensation'
Or crystal implants.
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Frater Perdurabo
Amarr
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 20:55:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hektor Ramirez
Originally by: redrick002
"Armor compensation" is the same as shield compensation.
Again...no.
He was most likely talking about the kinetic/EM/explosive/thermal shield compensation skills Vs the kin/therm/EM/EXP armour comp skills. They are the same.
Armour tankers dont even get an equivalent of the shield compensation skill.
Shields get a 30% active multi hardener, armour gets a 25% passive. Shield tanking and armour tanking are different. The end.
Sig->
If my post has offended you, send me an evemail, i like to laugh at them.
P.s. If you dont like my corp, why dont you go take a flying **** at the mooooooooon. |
000Hunter000
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.02.07 21:07:00 -
[26]
U poor poor armortankers... wonders why he sees so many domi's, hyperions and throns ejecting from his mission agents station all the time cuz armortanking reall sux big time it seems
Resized tag... again... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp... again :p
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LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2007.02.07 21:28:00 -
[27]
90% of ships preferred for PVP are armor tankers. That doesn't mean they are 'better tanks' but more because warp disruptors, webs, sensor boosters, and MWD's are midslot items.
~~~~~~~~~
Hey Gai. Bak Off Coz Ai Bang Yu Hawd. K Gai? |
Benglada
Infinitus Odium
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 21:33:00 -
[28]
You get your 20% passive to all hard when i get my 30% active to all armor
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Originally by: Arkanor
0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected])
Sig By Ortos |
Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
The Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.07 21:33:00 -
[29]
Shield tanking is front-loaded. Armour tanking is rear-loaded.
This can REALLY make a huge difference.
//Maya |
Neuromandis
EPSILON TEAM
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.08 00:08:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Neuromandis on 08/02/2007 00:05:06
Forget it, there's no "better".
Each has its own way to do anything.
You can do ubertanks either shield or armor. I've seen both Uber-Tank-Scorpions, Concrete Dominixes, Un*****able Tempests, Unkillable Armageddons.
None of them could also damage and EW. Almost all of them could tank + do something else (either EW or DPS). That said, the fact that cap boosters are midslots gives a slight edge to the peak-damage sustainability of Armortankers, but the fact that PDU's is low slot gives the Shield tankers a bit more firing/light-tanking sustainability when not under Total Annihilation circumstances.
You can PVP (with different strategies) with Either shield OR armor. That said, shield tank requires usually greater sacrifices EW-wise (it's rare to see a raven that webs scrambles and dampens) while armor tank requires greater sacrificess lowslot-wise (rare to see a non-sniping geddon wearing 3 heatsinks).
Each can do its own style of pwnmobiles just fine. I see pretty much anything killing pretty much anything else, and these differences (armor vs. shield tank) are almost always thrown out the window by player skill, character skills and quality of fitting.
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