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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2673
|
Posted - 2016.03.14 13:37:45 -
[1] - Quote
Giaus Felix wrote:Payne Dakara wrote:If you wanted fights you will go low or null and will not even care to open war against high sec care bear corp since war only matters in high sec. lol this old chestnut; hisec is just as much a PvP area as lowsec, nullsec and whspace. In fact it's probably even more so because it's A: where 70% of the targets are, B: where the majority of the money is made and C: where 90% of the nullsec supply lines begin.
What I don't get is why aren't you all deccing other war deccers all the time. You'd keep getting fights after fights since you keep saying you do it to get fights. I'm entirely willing to accept the notion you currently dec left, right and center in the hope of getting a fight at some point through sheer number of potential targets but why don't you also go with arguably safe bets? |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2674
|
Posted - 2016.03.14 14:54:33 -
[2] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: problem is only some of us actually manage to operate effectively under genuine threat and the ones that don't blue up to each other ,
I think this has a lot of meaning into it. The pressure group like yours can put on others is showing to be too much even for some used to applying that pressure to others. It's probably a reason why wardecs will never really get "buffed" directly. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2675
|
Posted - 2016.03.14 15:48:41 -
[3] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:War reparations? You've had worse ideas, and that's saying something Historically the winners of a war don't pay reparations, the losers do; in which case people such as yourself would have to pay wardeccing corps, who invariably win such contests because they actually know what they're doing, any costs incurred in making your spaceships explode. I can certainly get behind such a mechanic if it's employed in a realistic way.
Well most reparation were paid by the loser after initiating the war. A nation getting invaded and outright losing probably won't pay just like the bad corp getting roflstomped would not pay. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2677
|
Posted - 2016.03.14 16:45:28 -
[4] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:War reparations? You've had worse ideas, and that's saying something Historically the winners of a war don't pay reparations, the losers do; in which case people such as yourself would have to pay wardeccing corps, who invariably win such contests because they actually know what they're doing, any costs incurred in making your spaceships explode. I can certainly get behind such a mechanic if it's employed in a realistic way. Well most reparation were paid by the loser after initiating the war. A nation getting invaded and outright losing probably won't pay just like the bad corp getting roflstomped would not pay. Kind of, a nation that gets invaded and outright loses the fight invariably has its natural resources plundered, wealth stolen and the population oppressed or enslaved, again we have historical precedent.
I just don't personally count being annexed or occupied as a payment like reparations. Most reparation that I remember were usually from nation who went on the offensive and had to pay back for the damage they had caused to the other country.
I might be just playing on the terms tho so meh... |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2681
|
Posted - 2016.03.14 18:23:08 -
[5] - Quote
tiberiusric wrote:to be honest all major war deccers camp either hubs or main routes. So i think the watch list issue is a bit mute. We managed for years without them.
Clearly the monetry value hasnt made a difference at all. The main thing you could do is make all war decs 500mill that would make people really think about deccing random people for nothing. Wars for me should be about 'really' declaring war on someone for a reason not just for another target.
The war dec is really silly tbh, CCP just create something to circumvent the high sec mechanic of stopping people getting shot.
As i said i think war deccing is fine, but just to have lots of easy targets in highsec is not. Sure you will have the cash cows that can spend billions on targets but you cant stop that, unless you just remove war deccing altogether. Hmm now theres a thought
And 1 year later, when 2 insetad of 6 corp/alliance are elft because they banded together to absorb the dec cost increase, we crank it to 1bill/war?
Another year later, 2bill/war for the last mega alliance doing it? |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2683
|
Posted - 2016.03.14 23:11:38 -
[6] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:I do. I'm hardly risk adverse. I'm also not stupid enough to think war deccers are the only groups that like to tip things in their favor. I know we in the Imperium like to play it safe whenever playing it safe is the way to success. And it is way more often than it isn't, and that doesn't have anything to do with Highsec wars. It's the same everywhere in the game. Why take risks if taking risks is tedious and doesn't get you anywhere? CCPlease make taking risks worthwhile again!
In a game where you can load the dices, people will always thrive to load the dices. In the end, as soon as the game was created with losses being meaningful, everybody has to accept people will try their best to cut their own losses. Ratter don't run and hide because it's fun but because their ship is on the line and that ship is X hours of ratting to do again if lost. PvPers will use many kind of no commitment doctrine because again, losses ends up hurting if it happen to often. Others will go with overwhelming numbers because quantity is a quality of it's own.
So many posters are 100% against the idea of an arena/dojo systems because they want to be able to load the dice their way. As long as people think this way, blueballing and troll doctrine will exist because losing hurt. Want to see games where people really always go balls deep in combat and really rarely blueball? Try the one where losses mean nothing and check the meat grinder in produces matches after matches.
People don't play AGAINST you in EVE, they play FOR themselves. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2683
|
Posted - 2016.03.14 23:13:36 -
[7] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Tiddle Jr wrote:If merc corp war dec'ed someone it is not allowed to declare another war until current one is finished. If a victim corp got war dec'ed it can't war dec someone else even the attacker but only allowed to assist in war decs running aside. 1 active war in a time no multiple wars declaration. In the mean time make a war declaration more flexible in terms of time frames e.g. 1d, 3d etc. Make the corp memeber count a limit factor of war dec e.g. 1 man corp can't war dec anything greater than 1 man corp. Make it 1:2 ratio so 2 man corp could only war dec 4 man corp. Corporation no matter what size is can't war dec an alliance, same works as opposite.
Some thoughts from my side. That would need a way to limit avoidance tactics, though. If your corp has an active war, you cannot leave it or something like that. Because otherwise, with only one active war allowed, you'd sit around and spin ships for weeks at a time, because most corps you declare war on will just disband or log off for a week. I don't think this idea can be made to work.
Let me create a shell corp and make a war against marmite mutual and then laugh for months as I completely barred them from :content:.
I use marrmite as an example but any deccer corps would be trapped with that. It'd be MUCH worse than decshield... |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2683
|
Posted - 2016.03.15 14:30:56 -
[8] - Quote
Commander Spurty wrote:Join a null sec alliance, Skill inject s noob Corp alt to do your HS logistics
i say anyone that is involved in a wardec be allowed to anchor bubbles in highsec and drop Bombs.
No concord intervention is what you paid for.
No concord intervention is what you should get.
This "middle ground" is bad
This would totally not be a nightmare to code right? |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2684
|
Posted - 2016.03.15 16:25:06 -
[9] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Commander Spurty wrote:i say anyone that is involved in a wardec be allowed to anchor bubbles in highsec and drop Bombs.
No concord intervention is what you paid for.
No concord intervention is what you should get.
This "middle ground" is bad If you're up for getting concorded every time your bomb does collateral damage, I say bring it on.
I'd use noobship to forcefully warp in the bubbles all the time. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2689
|
Posted - 2016.03.16 15:24:45 -
[10] - Quote
If EVE was a combat sport, wardecs would be a 1 round authorization to hit each others in the crotch. You can't balance that... Someone always ends up with a short end on that stick... |
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2689
|
Posted - 2016.03.16 15:32:06 -
[11] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:I haven't seen much agreement from anyone that War Decs are fine as is. Clearly it's gone off the rails of what it was initially intended to do.
No, you can't just abolish them because the original intent of the mechanism still needs to exist.
Others don't want them abolished because it would essentially kill their play style. (Poachers, Mercs, etc.)
So we have a good, old fashioned conundrum on our hands.
I have my own ideas on this topic but I'll post them to New Player Ideas when I get it all worked out in my head. This is a big rock and it isn't going to be properly dealt with here in this thread.
I think the best thing to do with this thread is end it by posting some form of your agreement or disagreement that the War Dec game mechanic is/is not working and for CCP to fix it or leave it alone.
Otherwise, this thread is just going to go on and on and on, round and round and... well, you get the idea. I think CCP would rather see a definite "YES FIX IT" or "NO ITS GREAT!" from us.
Everybody will say the system has flaws so "fix it" is the answer. The issue is, everyone also has their version of "what's wrong with wardecs" and you'd have a hard time even getting a majority to agree on the same points. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2690
|
Posted - 2016.03.16 20:35:14 -
[12] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Tax avoidance comes to mind as a corp asset that requires literally no defense. Same with "organizational benefits" as they can be easily ported to a new corp risklessly so long as they aren't static, in space assets. So if they can have it without defending it why would they defend it? I fully expect the ability to tax to be moved into the Citadel at some point. Either as part of a revamp of wars or of corporations. You are right it makes no sense that corporations do not have to defend that major perk of player corps. Looking into my crystal ball wars will completely focus on structures in the future. In that case, it probably makes sense to forbid wars against corporations without structures in-space as they will really have no benefits above the NPC corp. I can't really see it as it runs afoul every objection typically had with goal oriented warfare. Corps becoming wholly dependent on citadels directly nerfs small entities without significant defensive presence for both aggressive and defensive entities. It also effectively attaches decs to structures in exactly the same way a war goal mechanic does, save the fact that it goes further in escalating potential war cost to the billions. Unless the mechanic is one way (you can dec but you cannot be dec'd, which is really terrible) it creates an effective "you must be this big to participate" style on play.
The "we do wardecs because we want to shoot people in HS" game is also dead if your war need a definitive objective.
You must be that tall to dec. Your target must be that tall to be decced.
This will be gamed to hell and back then back to hell and back. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2695
|
Posted - 2016.03.17 19:09:51 -
[13] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Atomic Virulent wrote:paying for free kills in Highsec. not empty quoting.
But they grinded the ISK themselves!!!!!
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2701
|
Posted - 2016.03.21 15:09:10 -
[14] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Or if you decide to autopilot your months earnings from jita to amarr You can't patch stupid.
Don't need to be under wardec for this to end in a predictable way tho. |
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