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ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
102
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Posted - 2016.03.13 21:51:06 -
[1] - Quote
So in the past we had problems because it was too easy and cheap to war dec. That got changed to be more expensive dependent on size of people you were deccing in some cases 500mill a pop. This led to alliances like Privateers, Orphanage etc closing. But now i see even more war dec alliances sprouting out with an incredible amount of war decs
Marmite - 136 wars Pirat - 171 wars Archtype - 77 wars Vendetta Merc - 181 wars Complaints Dept - 129 wars Caldari State Police - 116 wars
and thats just a few, i dont think most of these are offering assistance but actually the ones deccing. How can this be happening as its clearly not solved the problem its seems it just got worse. I am not convinced either this is all merc work either, as this costs billions per week as well.
Can someone explain if im missing something here?
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14704
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Posted - 2016.03.13 21:56:20 -
[2] - Quote
watchlist went away.
we told ye this would happen
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
102
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Posted - 2016.03.13 22:01:04 -
[3] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:watchlist went away.
we told ye this would happen
what the watchlist got to do with this? |

Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14705
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Posted - 2016.03.13 22:11:02 -
[4] - Quote
everything.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Ibutho Inkosi
Irubo Kovu
268
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Posted - 2016.03.13 22:50:14 -
[5] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:everything. Over-simplification is one thing, but reducing all this to THIS? Please. I'm no Einstein here, but do give me a BREAK.
The rise in war decs has to do with deccing, then blackmailing small, starting out corps who are attempting a shot at the meta game, but being cut down and sent to the showers by bored, juvenile players who just can't be bothered to play the deeper game offered by EVE's design. Face it. Hanging around in high, reading rosters of corps for that magic set of numbers [three members founded four days ago] isn't exactly what I'd call EMERGENT GAME PLAY - and if you call it CONTENT CREATION, I hope your career with Mickey D's works out. (The content of that cheeseburger is as easy to apply.)
The powers that be, for good or ill, have decided to sanction one so-called style of gameplay, and offer lip service to all the others. If you want to pretend this hasn't happened ('cause you happen to be one of those getting their yuks out of this) then go ahead, and be sure to lie about it all in this forum. But, when you do, at least put some effort into inventing one that's relatively BELIEVABLE, and somewhat PLAUSIBLE.
Our collective intelligence has been insulted enough of late.
As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
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Wanda Fayne
146
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Posted - 2016.03.13 23:13:47 -
[6] - Quote
They told you this would happen |

Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
767
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Posted - 2016.03.13 23:14:29 -
[7] - Quote
Balancing something around the price has always been a silly idea. If you make something more expensive, you will just take everyone except the ones that are really into it out of the equation, leaving more room for those that are. |

Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14709
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Posted - 2016.03.13 23:26:27 -
[8] - Quote
Ibutho Inkosi wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:everything. Over-simplification is one thing, but reducing all this to THIS? Please. its literally the only relevant thing that has changed so yeah it is that simple, we called this about a month ago and here it is.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1693
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Posted - 2016.03.14 01:21:25 -
[9] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Ibutho Inkosi wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:everything. Over-simplification is one thing, but reducing all this to THIS? Please. its literally the only relevant thing that has changed so yeah it is that simple, we called this about a month ago and here it is. Confirming I went AFK in Dodixie for an hour and got wardecced. As a wormhole person I'm an utterly worthless target so they clearly just go through local and dec everyone there, knowing a portion of them will stay/come back within a week. It's the only way to reliably find targets without watchlist (even if 90% of them never come back).
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2792
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Posted - 2016.03.14 02:19:21 -
[10] - Quote
Pretty much what Ralph said. Unless they change locator agents to once again make them relevant I can only suggest that you learn to love your new trade hub camping overlords.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2747
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Posted - 2016.03.14 02:58:25 -
[11] - Quote
We need wardecs changed so they are attackable. Steve Ronuken had a good idea about making them dependent upon an anchored whatsit that can be shot. That would be good I think.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Conrad Makbure
Trident Expedition
85
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Posted - 2016.03.14 03:19:08 -
[12] - Quote
High sec WD's should go through a high supreme Court system so both sides can present their case with security and empire standings factored into it. Those numbers should be used a lot more for game systems. |

Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14721
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Posted - 2016.03.14 03:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Conrad Makbure wrote:High sec WD's should go through a high supreme Court system so both sides can present their case with security and empire standings factored into it. Those numbers should be used a lot more for game systems. you would be shocked at how high most mercs faction standing actually is.
most of us have all 4 empires in positive with a sizable chunk of their composite corps at +5 if not most of the factions themselves we have to do an inordinate amount of grinding to get a useful number of locator agents , which are now practically useless because they run on offline players ,
this is why the larger ones now operate by :
Push red button on everything within eye-shot
sit in the hubs and connecting pipes
receive bacon.
again
watchlist went away
we told ye this would happen.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Valkin Mordirc
1957
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Posted - 2016.03.14 03:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Confirming the horrific grind I went though to get standing so I could have a good number of locators.
And also confirming the "We told you so"
Because we did.
Like literally every wardeccer.
Also If you think it's crazy now, some merc corps, like Marmite, can run up to 300 active decs in bursts. Marmite's done it before, Archetype has the possibilities as would Ven, PIRAT and CD as I would imagine.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Valkin Mordirc
1957
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Posted - 2016.03.14 03:55:48 -
[15] - Quote
Zappity wrote:We need wardecs changed so they are attackable. Steve Ronuken had a good idea about making them dependent upon an anchored whatsit that can be shot. That would be good I think.
Much would need to be balanced for the aggressor if that became the case.
Wardecs are favorable to the defender believe it or not.
Most Defenders just can't be arsed enough to actually do anything about it
#DeleteTheWeak
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Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2747
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Posted - 2016.03.14 04:09:36 -
[16] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Wardecs are favorable to the defender believe it or not. lol
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Valkin Mordirc
1959
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Posted - 2016.03.14 04:16:11 -
[17] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Wardecs are favorable to the defender believe it or not. lol
Rather than post a throw-away, why don't you give me your reason why?
You've always been a pretty vocal person. Why don't you embellish that and give me reason's?
#DeleteTheWeak
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ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
103
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Posted - 2016.03.14 06:03:52 -
[18] - Quote
and thats fine but how are they even affording to have so many wardecs? it cant be sustainable surely |

Valkin Mordirc
1962
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Posted - 2016.03.14 06:23:33 -
[19] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:and thats fine but how are they even affording to have so many wardecs? it cant be sustainable surely. the pricing structure wqs supposed to stop all that and making it just far too expensive to war dec so many
Most of the times it's a combination of things. Passive income via a holding-POCO's-corp, Donations from members of alliance,
Active income, Trading done by the CEO, CEO has a Nullsec background and uses is overflow to fund is Highsec Alliance, Contracts fulfilled by taking down POCO/POS for clients, and so forth.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2249
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Posted - 2016.03.14 06:26:16 -
[20] - Quote
Zappity wrote:We need wardecs changed so they are attackable. Steve Ronuken had a good idea about making them dependent upon an anchored whatsit that can be shot. That would be good I think. No offense to Steve, but this is probably one of the worst ideas to improve wardecs that has ever been floated. Making wars useless against entities bigger than you, and making the largest groups in the game immune to them by giving them a way to opt out by blobbing a beacon will just result in wardeccers targeting new and small corps even more than they do now.
Raising the cost just took wardecs out of the hands of small corps who could uses them to dabble in PvP or settle scores and forced aggressor to organize. It made aggressor group up and increased the disparity in power between an average highsec corp and the profession mercenaries. Tying the war to a structure will just do more of the same and make guerrilla-style wars impossible.
That said, I am not against changes to make the aggressor have something on the line so defenders can counter-attack. But it needs to be done carefully and in a way that doesn't allow groups, especially the largest groups, to make themselves 100% safe from smaller aggressors.
As to the OP, players are willing to pay for content. Losing ships in random PvP isn't profitable but players do it all the time. If nothing else, a PLEX will currently buy you over 20 wars for your whole alliance although there is ISK in contract fees, loot drops and direct extortion. Players will find a way. |
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Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2747
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Posted - 2016.03.14 06:53:51 -
[21] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Zappity wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Wardecs are favorable to the defender believe it or not. lol Rather than post a throw-away, why don't you give me your reason why? You've always been a pretty vocal person. Why don't you embellish that and give me reason's? I didn't bother to respond in depth because the premise of your statement is unreasonable. If a wardec put the attacker at the disadvantage they wouldn't be so popular. But I'll respond to the underlying issue.
Wardecs are done primarily for three reasons:
1. You want to be able to legally kill assets or ships in highsec. These are typically declared against relatively defenceless industry corps. This is where my experience is - it is hugely lucrative.
2. You want easy kills from unsupported solo pilots at trade hubs or pipes. These are typically declared against huge alliances to increase the chances of harvesting the daft.
3. You actually want to fight another corp. I can't remember the last time this actually happened outside of RvB.
The reason a deployable structure which can be attacked to end the war dec would be a good idea is because there is currently no practical way to force a fight with highsec wardec corps. They just dock up. This would give a small indy corp a way (likely via mercs which would be healthy) to attack the dec itself.
Sure, it would make a declaration against a capable alliance risky. So what?
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Valkin Mordirc
1962
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Posted - 2016.03.14 07:31:19 -
[22] - Quote
All you've done is generalize a 1000+ different people into one category.
Why do you think that the Defending corp is at a disadvantage?
Quote: 1. You want to be able to legally kill assets or ships in highsec. These are typically declared against relatively defenceless industry corps. This is where my experience is - it is hugely lucrative.
I've always disliked this argument for couple reasons,
1. If a Newbro went into Tama with a bling fitted Battleship. Most people in Null/Lowsec wouldn't care if he was new or not. They would pop him and move. Same goes for a wardec in highsec.
(If you honestly would let him go, then good on you though)
2. Yes taking out Highsec assists like POS and POCO's can make you ISK. Contracts are very great away for a Wardeccing corp to make profit. But again, if you go out Lowsec and put a POCO and you can't defend it. Guess what? You don't deserve to have it. Yeah?
Quote: 2. You want easy kills from unsupported solo pilots at trade hubs or pipes. These are typically declared against huge alliances to increase the chances of harvesting the daft.
All lowsec people want to do smartbomb pods in a T3 because it's easy and pods don't shoot back.
I can generalize to and it doesn't help the situation in the slightest.
Huge Alliances like EVE-Uni are a huge threat to Merc alliances. If you treat them like newbs you going to loose a ship. Which happens a lot.
Oh and although I do Camp hubs sometimes, I also hunt, I'd and have gone out to Solitude if my locater found someone there.
Quote:3. You actually want to fight another corp. I can't remember the last time this actually happened outside of RvB.
When my corp was active, we actively found corps that would fight back. So No not me.
Anyways
Quote:The reason a deployable structure which can be attacked to end the war dec would be a good idea is because there is currently no practical way to force a fight with highsec wardec corps. They just dock up. This would give a small indy corp a way (likely via mercs which would be healthy) to attack the dec itself.
Sure, it would make a declaration against a capable alliance risky. So what?
Because, Believe it or not, I want Wardecs to be rehashed tweaked and reworked into some better.
Defenders have all the advantages but no reason to use them. That is the problem. Giving them a get out jail free card is an excuse slip. Not a reason.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4916
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Posted - 2016.03.14 07:51:50 -
[23] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:(...)
Because, Believe it or not, I want Wardecs to be rehashed tweaked and reworked into some better.
Defenders have all the advantages but no reasonwish to use them. That is the problem. Giving them a get out jail free card is an excuse slip. Not a reason.
FYP.
You can't make a horse drink. Thus the balance about wardecs is about how many players CCP wants to lose because of them.
Make wardecs too harsh, and PvErs will quit. Make them easy to evade, and PvPrs will complain.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7329
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Posted - 2016.03.14 08:19:08 -
[24] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:watchlist went away.
we told ye this would happen
If the CSM selection page had the ability to write in a candidate......
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Smitty Uitra
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
26
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Posted - 2016.03.14 08:59:49 -
[25] - Quote
Oh, you mean to say that taking the watchlists away has caused there to be a higher number of war decs like everyone said there would be? Say it ain't so. |

Payne Dakara
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2016.03.14 09:39:05 -
[26] - Quote
Avoiding war targets is pretty easy for a defending corp you just have to follow few simple rules in regards to trade hubs and work as a team to gather intelligence if a war target is close.
On the other hand pirates don't like to fight they want an easy kill so if you try to fight them they just dock.
It is however possible to setup traps and kill some of them but it usually does not worth the effort especially for small industrial corp.
So in order to annoy so called MERCS I'll just list the measures needed so that they have hard time finding targets and switch to low sec or null sec pvp where they will loose some ships instead of harassing defenseless targets . ;)
1. Corporation Safe spot locations in all trade hubs (Jita, Amarr, Dodixie, Hek) also in home systems. - instant warp after undock safe spot - instant dock for trade station
2. Avoid main trade route systems like Uedama when traveling with slow ships, use frigate with propulsion upgrades for 2s warp time when you have to travel to trade hubs during war.
3. Use alts in NPC corp to transport large shipments.
4. Add war deck corp with red standing and watch local, don't mine AFK and if you see them dock.
5. Watch opposing corp kill board and see if they are close to where you are, if you have standing use locator agents for same purpose.
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Giaus Felix
Hedion University Amarr Empire
120
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Posted - 2016.03.14 09:59:50 -
[27] - Quote
Is this another example of people asking CCP to do something that they think will give them an advantage, and then being surprised when it backfires hilariously on them?
All this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.
I am Ralph's junk DNA.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14743
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Posted - 2016.03.14 10:04:05 -
[28] - Quote
Payne Dakara wrote:Avoiding war targets is pretty easy for a defending corp you just have to follow few simple rules in regards to trade hubs and work as a team to gather intelligence if a war target is close.
On the other hand pirates don't like to fight they want an easy kill so if you try to fight them they just dock.
It is however possible to setup traps and kill some of them but it usually does not worth the effort especially for small industrial corp.
So in order to annoy so called MERCS I'll just list the measures needed so that they have hard time finding targets and switch to low sec or null sec pvp where they will loose some ships instead of harassing defenseless targets . ;)
1. Corporation Safe spot locations in all trade hubs (Jita, Amarr, Dodixie, Hek) also in home systems. - instant warp after undock safe spot - instant dock for trade station
2. Avoid main trade route systems like Uedama when traveling with slow ships, use frigate with propulsion upgrades for 2s warp time when you have to travel to trade hubs during war.
3. Use alts in NPC corp to transport large shipments.
4. Add war deck corp with red standing and watch local, don't mine AFK and if you see them dock.
5. Watch opposing corp kill board and see if they are close to where you are, if you have standing use locator agents for same purpose.
Right, and that's where an alliance like ours would come in.
We would find you in your little hidy holes , grab one of your lads and hold him till you came to rescue him and then brutalise the rescue force, we would follow you into holes and low and it's us this is effecting.
We do want fights we will jump down other mercs throats in a heartbeat we are known for it and its our tools that got removed, now many groups like us (hell even the bloodhounds in marmite and the like)are faced with two options ,
an inordinate amount of scouting ,intel gathering and infiltration just to find online targets
Or
Sit in a hub and deck everything with a pulse
Most don't have the time or patients for the former and now you are seeing the results
We told ye this would happen if we didn't get something to balance out the watch list removal.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Smitty Uitra
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
27
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Posted - 2016.03.14 10:07:38 -
[29] - Quote
Payne Dakara wrote:Avoiding war targets is pretty easy for a defending corp you just have to follow few simple rules in regards to trade hubs and work as a team to gather intelligence if a war target is close.
On the other hand pirates don't like to fight they want an easy kill so if you try to fight them they just dock.
It is however possible to setup traps and kill some of them but it usually does not worth the effort especially for small industrial corp.
So in order to annoy so called MERCS I'll just list the measures needed so that they have hard time finding targets and switch to low sec or null sec pvp where they will loose some ships instead of harassing defenseless targets . ;)
1. Corporation Safe spot locations in all trade hubs (Jita, Amarr, Dodixie, Hek) also in home systems. - instant warp after undock safe spot - instant dock for trade station
2. Avoid main trade route systems like Uedama when traveling with slow ships, use frigate with propulsion upgrades for 2s warp time when you have to travel to trade hubs during war.
3. Use alts in NPC corp to transport large shipments.
4. Add war deck corp with red standing and watch local, don't mine AFK and if you see them dock.
5. Watch opposing corp kill board and see if they are close to where you are, if you have standing use locator agents for same purpose.
In reply to a couple of things you said. We love fights. If you're a war target and want to set up a fight just contact one of us. We would love a fleet fight. Are you talking about mercs or pirates? They aren't the same thing. You don't have to add us to red. War targets are clearly marked in local. I'll make 40 jumps through high and low to get a target. If you're at war you aren't ever safe unless you're docked. So feel free to watch our kill board but if you are out, I'm hunting you! Distance doesn't matter to me.
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Memphis Baas
1330
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Posted - 2016.03.14 10:13:11 -
[30] - Quote
Zappity wrote:The reason a deployable structure which can be attacked to end the war dec would be a good idea is because there is currently no practical way to force a fight with highsec wardec corps.
This would give a small indy corp a way (likely via mercs which would be healthy) to attack the dec itself.
Well, the entity that declares the war spends some money to create the war dec. Would only be fair for the other party to be able to pay the wardec fee (to the NPCs) to abort the war dec, don't you think?
Would also be just about the biggest ISK sink... pay for safety.
To avoid the "it's on, no it's not, it's on, no it's not" spam, CCP should change it so the entity that declares war has the option to pay the base fee + whatever extra amount they want, with the defenders having to match the total to cancel the wardec.
Even bigger ISK sink.
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