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Abandon the t2 lottery NOW

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Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.11 08:43:00 - [1] Only a balanced game, where everyone can achieve anything is a good game. In Eve there are several mechanisms that make sure that no one can gain an advantage that makes him god. With one exception - the tech 2 lottery. The worst mechanism ever implemented to my believe (ok, the fact that one has had to fly a Broadsword bomber in several Wing Commander II missions which did not contain enemy capital ships was almost as worse, but I guess you get the point). In Eve one has to fight for territory, for resources, for political stuff. This is nice, very nice indeed. The tech 2 lottery, on the other hand, is absolutely bad, extremely bad, horribly bad. Reasons: 1. Winning the lottery means: license to print money. 2. It forces people to create multiple accounts which they do not play but use them to get rp @ agents. It may not be against the EULA, but I consider this cheating. Of course CCP is interested in this, because this means more money for them. So is this fair to your playerbase, CCP? Tell us! 3. One can't lose T2 blueprints. Everything else of real worth can be lost, especially territory and ships (we all know that this is very easy to accomplish). Owning a T2 blueprint means owning a resource of insane value with a) no effort - not the slightest! - invested, except for a few days of skill training and b) no effort - not the slightest! - to secure it. No, thanks, CCP. Tell us, is that balanced? CCP, tell us, is that fair play? 4. In fact the T2 lottery converts a game of skill and effort into a game of odds and OOC / OOG real life money investment. CCP, you forbid people to buy ISK for real life money (for a good reason, I like this rule), but on the other hand you force people to invest real life money into this game to compete / to get an advantage? CCP, tell us, is that your business model?
Brolly Caldari The Department of Justice	Posted - 2007.02.11 08:46:00 - [2] I think most people abandoned it aaaages ago, you're still not going to get cheaper datacores though If I had ú1 for every intelligent comment posted in general discussion, I'd be hideously in debt
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.11 08:49:00 - [3] I want to dissent on: no work: a good research character cost 2 months of training, a good number of missions and about 100 millions. Those are 2 months where you aren't training other skills. No risk: change to little risk to loose, it is still sobject to be lost from hangar theft and while moving it around. If you think there are better solution, propose those you think are bettter, but don't ask for a change without proposing something.
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.02.11 08:53:00 - [4] Only a balanced game, where everyone can achieve anything is a good game. Oh so balance is where everyone can achieve anything? Rubbish. Sadly your post hit rock bottom there. Afterwards you started clawing at the bottom with your nails. Lets look 1) Rubbish, few are profitable 2) Forces?. I'll keep it simple " l o l " 3) Tell Khatred that. Tell others that have "lost" them too. 4) Partially agree, luck is involved, look at the alternative though. Grind. I dont want that either.
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.11 08:54:00 - [5] Oh, ok. Sorry for not posting a solution. My idea: 1. Keep a lottery system, but have it give out bpcs with a few runs (but very good ME / PE - so the lottery is fun to play) only. 2. WTFBoost invention - by at least 1000%. In fact, make it viable even for a few day ofld players to try it out. 3. Convert the existing t2 bpos into t2 bpcs. 4. Make invention more colorful. Not only should people be able to create T2 bpcs but also it should be possible to create named stuff bpcs.
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.11 08:59:00 - [6] Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch Only a balanced game, where everyone can achieve anything is a good game. Oh so balance is where everyone can achieve anything? Rubbish. Sadly your post hit rock bottom there. Afterwards you started clawing at the bottom with your nails. Lets look 1) Rubbish, few are profitable 2) Forces?. I'll keep it simple " l o l " 3) Tell Khatred that. Tell others that have "lost" them too. 4) Partially agree, luck is involved, look at the alternative though. Grind. I dont want that either. You're wrong, badly. It's a fact that with the T2 lottery one has to use oog mechanisms and real life money (for additional accounts) to compete. No "l o l" will make fact a joke, sorry. :D Skill > grind > luck tbh. And there could be ways of having T2 production skill (not skills!) based. Invention was a nice idea, but it was implemented badly - I guess CCP did that for a good reason (keeping the rp harvesting accounts).
Pierre Jacquemein A Place for Valen	Posted - 2007.02.11 09:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Doc Extropy 4. Make invention more colorful. Not only should people be able to create T2 bpcs but also it should be possible to create named stuff bpcs. I like that idea a lot. Perhaps the rate at which people succeed in inventing T2 BPCs could stay the same, but the times that they "fail" they might have the chance of getting a named BPC instead of nothing.
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.11 09:04:00 - [8] Originally by: Pierre Jacquemein Originally by: Doc Extropy 4. Make invention more colorful. Not only should people be able to create T2 bpcs but also it should be possible to create named stuff bpcs. I like that idea a lot. Perhaps the rate at which people succeed in inventing T2 BPCs could stay the same, but the times that they "fail" they might have the chance of getting a named BPC instead of nothing. \o/ I love that.
Viktoria Maher	Posted - 2007.02.11 09:12:00 - [9] I like the idea of T2 BPCs given out by research agents in exchange for a certain amount of RPs. Say, 6000 for a module BPC, 12000 for a ship BPC, etc. These could still be rare enough to not greatly unbalance the market (with CCP still controlling the drop rate of these BPCs) but gives 99% of the population who didn't win in the T2 lotto the chance to particpate too.
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.11 09:17:00 - [10] Why not just make T2 BPCs only, but have them produced consistently for a particular rate of RP generation (i.e. every 1000-2000 RP you get a BPC). This makes building T2 an ongoing process, but achievable by everyone. In addition, while RP gain can be constant, have occasional large hauler/supplier missions given out by the agents, with a halt on RP gain until they're completed (retain smaller daily missions for double daily gain). The idea is, (Roleplay-wise), that T2 BPCs represent the reward by the agent you're working for for your ongoing assistance in their company's research projects. In this way, everyone can get in on the T2 market (but still need to specialize and work for it quite a bit). T2 producers, with thousands of RP and their BPOs, get to keep a substantial portion of their worth and people with lots of research characters get that reflected in production ability. You could go further with this, and tie it into factional warfare - let research progress be reflected in kills and losses against that company's facilities, and RP-gain reflected by a pilot's defense. This part could be complicated as hell though.
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.02.11 09:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Doc Extropy 1. Winning the lottery means: license to print money. 2. It forces people to create multiple accounts which they do not play but use them to get rp @ agents. It may not be against the EULA, but I consider this cheating. Of course CCP is interested in this, because this means more money for them. So is this fair to your playerbase, CCP? Tell us! 3. One can't lose T2 blueprints. Everything else of real worth can be lost, especially territory and ships (we all know that this is very easy to accomplish). Owning a T2 blueprint means owning a resource of insane value with a) no effort - not the slightest! - invested, except for a few days of skill training and b) no effort - not the slightest! - to secure it. No, thanks, CCP. Tell us, is that balanced? CCP, tell us, is that fair play? 4. In fact the T2 lottery converts a game of skill and effort into a game of odds and OOC / OOG real life money investment. CCP, you forbid people to buy ISK for real life money (for a good reason, I like this rule), but on the other hand you force people to invest real life money into this game to compete / to get an advantage? CCP, tell us, is that your business model? Not every T2 bpo is a big money maker. So get lucky in a draw isn't the same as get licene to print money. There is tech1 prints that give better profit margins. Heck just sell bs bpc's can give more income than some t2 modules. I bet there is some players with Micro Smartbombs T2 and similar in their inventory who can sell you a "liscense to print isk" rather cheapish if you want into t2 production. Players wanted other means to get into tech2 production, CCP gave us invention. At current time its a bit flawed but with some attention from the devs it should be fixed. Then your choice would be to follow the invention path, cash out your datacores from your agent. Or hold on to them, hope to get lucky, or still do invention and buy datacores from those that cash out theirs. The lottery style on seed t2 prints is the best option there is. If you make them available on the market, they would needed to be priced so high to limit how many get into circulation. That would just make it a option for the already rich in EVE. I wouldnt mind if a hac print went on market for 200 billion. Because if you want it on the open market, it still need to be rare enough to not make it to common. Its not about being fair its about being practical. Bring up the "fair" card in a computer game is a bit silly. CCP doesnt force anyone to invest real life money into this game to compete. That is a choice players make. If players want to make a short cut to isk through GTC sales or whatever, that is their choice. About the fairness card? How fair is it that someone use their out of game wealth to get ahead ingame? CCP doesnt have to answer for no one. Its their game, you chose to play it, no one forces you. As players we are able to voice our conserns and opinions but at end of the day it's CCP who is at the helm. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
WhiskeyDP The Druids	Posted - 2007.02.11 10:04:00 - [12] u have some insane profitable bpo's but i think most t2 bpo's(ships, modules, ammo) make between 30-400m per month in profit(yes many of the ship bpo's doesnt make more then 400m profit or even less per month) and that is imo not worth the hazzle in many cases ================== === eve is not all about isk, its about enjoying the game. lots of iskies is not the same as enjoying the game
WhiskeyDP The Druids	Posted - 2007.02.11 10:42:00 - [13] it also takes a little more then "a cpl of days" to train ur skills to be able to build t2 stuff. in some cases u need to train a cpl of months(with high attributes) in total time to build some of them ================== === eve is not all about isk, its about enjoying the game. lots of iskies is not the same as enjoying the game
Kiritu	Posted - 2007.02.11 11:09:00 - [14] The solution is a limited 1 month, 2 month or 3 month license on T2 items, then ... back to the pool.
GuruJ Gallente Lynx Frontier Inc. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.11 11:31:00 - [15] It should be cancelled..... it isn't fair. After all a Dev can just make one like magic for your alliance, why waste Research points and play the game fair! Wanted: Dev to join my alliance and help us cheat everyone else! Convo me your application! "Fancy ships, big guns, and expensive things; what about your soul does it Bling Bling?"
Reelo Gravis	Posted - 2007.02.11 11:56:00 - [16] the threadstarting post is about sour grapes, in my humble opinion. in fact there are various ways of playing eve-online, and the "T2 lottery" is the least FPS-like and more in the class of management or 4X-games (to use OOC words). i think the system is fine the way it is. and no, i do not own any T2 BPOs.
Liliane Woodhead	Posted - 2007.02.11 12:10:00 - [17] Group A) No T2 BPO -> Group B) One T2 BPO -> Group C) X T2 BPOs -> Let the Lotterie as it is, stop whining, be patient, run R+D missions, have a drink .... Yours (today elk surrounded) Woodhead
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:10:00 - [18] CCP are testing a new system involving picking an alliance they like and supplying them with T2 BPOs. Thus far it has proved somewhat unpopular so I guess we are stuck with the lottery
killerco Gallente Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Doc Extropy 3. Convert the existing t2 bpos into t2 bpcs. you know if you do this prices off all t2 items will sky rocket into orbit(in my opinion). Market will drop dramaticly(peeps will look after there own first and market much later). Don't be a great man just be a man
Tokra	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:30:00 - [20] And what do you think will happen when the BPOs will be available to everyone? The prizes for the T2 materials would skyrocket, becauce suddenly everyone will need these. And in the end it will not be cheaper to build the T2 items.
Ky Vatta Caldari Empire Mining and Industrial Taskforce	Posted - 2007.02.11 14:22:00 - [21] The tech 2 materials used to be given out as agent rewards....I never understood why CCP stopped that, as it became the main reason tech 2 stuff is so expensive... Anyhow, the Tech 2 lottery isn`t giving out any BPOs anymore (Invention is supposed to replace it, but how Invention will make Tech 2 BPOs,is beyond me..)
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.02.11 14:28:00 - [22] Originally by: killerco Originally by: Doc Extropy 3. Convert the existing t2 bpos into t2 bpcs. you know if you do this prices off all t2 items will sky rocket into orbit(in my opinion). Market will drop dramaticly(peeps will look after there own first and market much later). Yep. I estimate triple... It's the only way a lot of the "producers" would make a profit either, it's very easy to do T2 production badly. //Maya
Genericforumalt Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.02.11 14:41:00 - [23] Edited by: Genericforumalt on 11/02/2007 14:41:50 You know I can't wait till the lottery finishes seeding, maybe we will have less of these garbage threads. EDIT: And to contribute I suppose: 1. T2 BPOS ARE NOT ISK PRINT MACHINES, hell a lot of them don't even turn a profit. (lol ammo) 2. This is the best system that we could have, or would you rather seed them onto the market and grind for them sir palidin WoW Mcgrindsalot? 3. There is no #3.
Maj Woodcock Minmatar United Space Aillance USA	Posted - 2007.02.11 15:00:00 - [24] why is every one blaming the lottory system? It isn't the lottory sysetem that cheated, it was the DEV!!! I spent a LONG time getting skills and standing on my 2 RD characters, total of 10 agents!! I want my T2 BPO!!! PROMISES MADE > PROMISES KEPT

Karass Sayfo Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.02.11 15:49:00 - [25] Please see this thread thats currently discussed (link is to another thread regarding T2 lottery). Thanks! _______ forum rules \| IGS rules \| CAOD rules \| [email protected]


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