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Anyone else tired of the whining?

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Franconis	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:16:00 - [1] I'm starting to get sick of the paranoia in this game over letting people fly good ships. It seems to me that every time there is a possibility of a ship really kicking tail, people whine and say it's an "I win button." EVERY ship has a counter, even nanoships. Rigs and faction/officer gear are what make super expensive ships super good. So what if a ship rocks? Don't nerf it. Just fit some other ship with officer gear and rigs to beat it. If you can't afford the super expensive gear, i guess you're not willing to risk it like the nanoboat pilots that are beating you. There is nothing wrong with allowing very good ships into the game. Just let lots of ships be very good in different ways (which is true in EVE today). Flame on.
Jadiin Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:29:00 - [2] I don't usually get onboard with the nerf this and that ship threads. In general I think everything is motoring along just fine. This new nano battleship trend tho..... I have to say that yeah according to forums they are beatable and so on it's just it doesn't seem right to have a bs moving faster than an interceptor. Put simply I don't agree with them but I'm not gonna whine (this post excluded). If CCP see fit to nerf or not it's good enough for me. I'll kill or be killed.
Waxau Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:30:00 - [3] No i want more whine threads!!! Excuse me, im going to go whine about this whine about the whines! RAWR
DarkElf Caldari Veto. Academy	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:32:00 - [4] Well i usually don't like whining either and most ppl crying out for nerfs i don't agree with. however nanobs is one thing i agree with. and u can't always take faction/officer gear and beat it. take for example you spend billions on a vindicator or similar, farjung for example. i don't think it's exactly balanced that u can spend about 500mil or maybe even less and be able to beat it with absolute ease in a nanophoon. but i agree with 90% of the nerf whines are just silly DE
Tisanta Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:36:00 - [5] Originally by: Franconis I'm starting to get sick of the paranoia in this game over letting people fly good ships. It seems to me that every time there is a possibility of a ship really kicking tail, people whine and say it's an "I win button." EVERY ship has a counter, even nanoships. Rigs and faction/officer gear are what make super expensive ships super good. So what if a ship rocks? Don't nerf it. Just fit some other ship with officer gear and rigs to beat it. If you can't afford the super expensive gear, i guess you're not willing to risk it like the nanoboat pilots that are beating you. There is nothing wrong with allowing very good ships into the game. Just let lots of ships be very good in different ways (which is true in EVE today). Flame on. you killed my pilgrim in your nos domi you bastard!!!! --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Franconis	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:47:00 - [6] Originally by: Tisanta Originally by: Franconis I'm starting to get sick of the paranoia in this game over letting people fly good ships. It seems to me that every time there is a possibility of a ship really kicking tail, people whine and say it's an "I win button." EVERY ship has a counter, even nanoships. Rigs and faction/officer gear are what make super expensive ships super good. So what if a ship rocks? Don't nerf it. Just fit some other ship with officer gear and rigs to beat it. If you can't afford the super expensive gear, i guess you're not willing to risk it like the nanoboat pilots that are beating you. There is nothing wrong with allowing very good ships into the game. Just let lots of ships be very good in different ways (which is true in EVE today). Flame on. you killed my pilgrim in your nos domi you bastard!!!! That was a good fight.
Azirapheal	Posted - 2007.02.12 13:07:00 - [7] yeah, the continuous whining is just a part of this increasingly carebear orientated game. they fail to realise that a PROPERLY fitted nanophoon from hell costs... 60 mill for the ship (insurance?) 600 mill for the mods. thats 660 mill going to carebears.... use it to buy your own!
Daftex Muleson Minmatar UNITED KINGDOM MAYHEM	Posted - 2007.02.12 13:13:00 - [8] Originally by: Azirapheal yeah, the continuous whining is just a part of this increasingly carebear orientated game. they fail to realise that a PROPERLY fitted nanophoon from hell costs... 60 mill for the ship (insurance?) 600 mill for the mods. thats 660 mill going to carebears.... use it to buy your own! Yea...keep buying my rat-dropped Local Hull Inertia Stabs and Nano's please....I need to buy another Hurricane
Scordite	Posted - 2007.02.12 13:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Franconis i guess you're not willing to risk it like the nanoboat pilots that are beating you. This is the whole crux of the biscuit. A nano setup costing the same as a regular tank/gank setup risks less. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.12 13:41:00 - [10] Well if we didnt have whine threads we wouldnt have a ships/mods forum,or evengaspwe might have constructive posts. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr.
Franconis	Posted - 2007.02.12 14:01:00 - [11] Edited by: Franconis on 12/02/2007 13:58:25 Originally by: Scordite Originally by: Franconis i guess you're not willing to risk it like the nanoboat pilots that are beating you. This is the whole crux of the biscuit. A nano setup costing the same as a regular tank/gank setup risks less. You're probably right, but I've learned to use cheap stuff to take out expensive ships. I've done over 400m isk worth of damage in the last two weeks with my celestis. I haven't lost a single one since then, and I spend 20m on my celestis fittings. My point is that even cheaper ships can kill more expensive ones, you just have to choose your battles properly, and know how and when to run.
El'Tar Caldari The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.02.12 14:02:00 - [12] Edited by: El''Tar on 12/02/2007 13:59:06 Originally by: Waxau No i want more whine threads!!! Excuse me, im going to go whine about this whine about the whines! RAWR I'm whining about your whine about the op's whine about whines
Zekk Pacus Caldari StateCorp	Posted - 2007.02.12 14:07:00 - [13] In any NanoBS thread there will be two types of post - 'they're overpowered nerf them' and 'they're an imaginative setup don't nerf them'. Post A will be by people who have been killed by them, post B will be by people who fly them. I'm neutral in the argument, but it does seem silly that to kill a nanophoon usually takes three or four ships. To kill one ship. (Huggin, two damage BS and a fast BC as bait, usually).
Scordite	Posted - 2007.02.12 14:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Franconis My point is that even cheaper ships can kill more expensive ones, you just have to choose your battles properly, and know how and when to run. Sure. Nanoships can chose their battles better than anyone (maybe bar covops cloak ships), and they sure as hell can run when needed. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.12 14:18:00 - [15] Edited by: Aramendel on 12/02/2007 14:15:32 Originally by: Azirapheal they fail to realise that a PROPERLY fitted nanophoon from hell costs... ... thats 660 mill going to carebears.... use it to buy your own! yawn "but it costs alot!" comment #66534646456 You can spend twice that isk and be killed by half the effort you need vs a nanophoon or domi. Isk isn't a balance factor. Or, if it would be, it would argue FOR nerfing nanoBSs because the effect you get per isk from them is far greater than for any other ships & setups.
Franconis	Posted - 2007.02.12 14:44:00 - [16] Originally by: Scordite Originally by: Franconis My point is that even cheaper ships can kill more expensive ones, you just have to choose your battles properly, and know how and when to run. Sure. Nanoships can chose their battles better than anyone (maybe bar covops cloak ships), and they sure as hell can run when needed. So should every ship that can easily choose it's battles be nerfed into oblivion? No. People are finding ways to beat nanoships despite their advantages, and I think they fit quite nicely into minmitar's niche. I personally don't see a single ship setup in the game at the moment that is an "I win button" against every other ship out there. Sure, most decent ships can seem like that agianst specific setups, but no ship beats everything every time. The only thing I can think of that could do that is mabye a nano-nyx, and that's impossible. The way I see it, each ship should be able to beat a few other good ships hands down, but it should also be space dust agianst a few ships. Use gangs to round out your strengths and weaknesses, and choose your battles if you want to win. I find this to be true with most ships; some ships could use a boost though (stealth bombers). Some ships like nanophoons and faction ships can kill more than their share of other ships, but they can still be killed. I also like the point that most of the isk spent on these pwnmobiles goes to carebears. I think that and the fact that you can kill a nanoship with a small, and much cheaper gang balances it out.
DarkElf Caldari Veto. Academy	Posted - 2007.02.12 14:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Zekk Pacus In any NanoBS thread there will be two types of post - 'they're overpowered nerf them' and 'they're an imaginative setup don't nerf them'. Post A will be by people who have been killed by them, post B will be by people who fly them. I'm neutral in the argument, but it does seem silly that to kill a nanophoon usually takes three or four ships. To kill one ship. (Huggin, two damage BS and a fast BC as bait, usually). 2 ships are needed really. if u think u need 2 dmg bs to kill a normally completely untanked bs then i dread to think the dmg bs setups ur using also u don't really need bait as they pop so quick u can even take them at a gate. or at least i have. huggin grabs them. domi gets on top of them and duel webs. huggin leaves, domi finshes the job. once the thing is going slow they pop in 30 seconds flat, if that. DE
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2007.02.12 14:49:00 - [18] subject: yes, there is often a bit more whining than what is good... I hated the constant whining about caldari (mostly using the raven) being cheaters because we got missiles while nobody said anything about gallente and their OMGBBQ Blasters and Nos/drones setups. nano/i-stab-subject: Those ships need balance - they are simply too fast for their size... It's okay to make fast battleships, but using lots of isk should not make it fly faster than pretty much all other classes of ships, and arguing 1 specialiced ship combined with 2-3 battleships can kill a nanophoon isn't a solid argument... I can understand people not wanting to give up their fast, fun fraggers bringing in killmails and lots of loot, but for Eve Society CCP have to Speed-cap ships 1way or another...
Franconis	Posted - 2007.02.12 14:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Tisanta you killed my pilgrim in your nos domi you bastard!!!! Nos domis are great, and yes people complain about these alot. Grats Tisanta on killing my domi in return, even though it took a pilgrim and a curse to do so.
DarkElf Caldari Veto. Academy	Posted - 2007.02.12 15:00:00 - [20] Originally by: Franconis Originally by: Tisanta you killed my pilgrim in your nos domi you bastard!!!! Nos domis are great, and yes people complain about these alot. Grats Tisanta on killing my domi in return, even though it took a pilgrim and a curse to do so. i'm not surprised it did. pilgrims and curses can not kill a nos domi solo unless a. the pilot is a nub, and b, they are nano/-stab fitted. but that's another story DE
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.12 15:29:00 - [21] Originally by: Franconis So should every ship that can easily choose it's battles be nerfed into oblivion? No. Nerfed into oblivion? No. Balanced? Yes. The other ships which can choose their battles as easily as nanoBS are inties, the vaga and force recons. But compared to nanoBS these ships have very little nos* (if at all), only 33-66% of it's dps and a smaller hitpoint buffer. Being able to choose your battles and having 200 dps is a bit different to being able to choose your battles and having 500 dps and 4 heavy nos. (* The pilgrim of cource has a similar nospower, but it is a bit of the exeption here. Unlike the other ships once it engages it cannot simply flee if things go south because its range is limited to warp disruptor range.)
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.12 15:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Franconis So should every ship that can easily choose it's battles be nerfed into oblivion? No. Nerfed into oblivion? No. Balanced? Yes. The other ships which can choose their battles as easily as nanoBS are inties, the vaga and force recons. But compared to nanoBS these ships have very little nos* (if at all), only 33-66% of it's dps and a smaller hitpoint buffer. Being able to choose your battles and having 200 dps is a bit different to being able to choose your battles and having 500 dps and 4 heavy nos. (* The pilgrim of cource has a similar nospower, but it is a bit of the exeption here. Unlike the other ships once it engages it cannot simply flee if things go south because its range is limited to warp disruptor range.)
Sedisp	Posted - 2007.02.12 16:23:00 - [23] Well from the fights I've been in there is one glaring weakness nano's have. They're sucktastic when webbed.
zevex	Posted - 2007.02.12 17:35:00 - [24] Originally by: Pinky Denmark nano/i-stab-subject: Those ships need balance - they are simply too fast for their size... It's okay to make fast battleships, but using lots of isk should not make it fly faster than pretty much all other classes of ships... The fact of the matter is this. These ships *ARE ALREADY BALANCED*!!! The only thing that is not balanced is the skill points and isk that the more experienced pilots have over the newer ones. But then again, by definition noobs should not be able to be as effective as experienced pilots in PvP, so I guess this isnÆt unbalanced eitheràitÆs just the way thing are. Deal with it. My main has 29 mil skill points, and is specialized in Minmatar. I primarily PvP rather than sit around making isk, so I only have about 1.2bil in isk and assets. Without faction gear and implants I can only get a nano/itsab æPhoon going about 3.5k. I think these ships are neat, but I donÆt feel like investing/risking the time and isk necessary to make them super effective. The guys that are getting them up to velocities of 8k+ deserver to be able to kick the snot out of you 1v1 (and 1v2 depending on the engagement), because they have invested a considerable amount of time and isk into these characters and ships. Believe me, when you have invested the same amount that they have, you will be able to kill them. If you are unwilling to make said investment, then you should not be allowed to have an opinion on the matter. Alsoàall this talk about their inertia allowing them to coast out of web rangeàwell that is a load of carp being shoveled out by inexperienced pilots. I have assisted in the demise of no fewer than 5 of these speedy æPhoons, and I was the sole webber on every occasion. Granted I was in a Rapier for 2 of said kills.
Scordite	Posted - 2007.02.12 18:32:00 - [25] Originally by: zevex The guys that are getting them up to velocities of 8k+ deserver to be able to kick the snot out of you 1v1 (and 1v2 depending on the engagement), because they have invested a considerable amount of time and isk into these characters and ships. Believe me, when you have invested the same amount that they have, you will be able to kill them. If you are unwilling to make said investment, then you should not be allowed to have an opinion on the matter. A nanophoon with 30mil sp pilot, snake set and faction fit would completely mess up, say, a faction/deadspace fitted vindicator with a 50mil sp pilot with full slaves. Now tell me who made the biggest time/isk investment. To top it off, the vindi is toast if it jumps into a 20man gatecamp, the nanophoon will giggle as it runs. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.02.12 18:38:00 - [26] ^ hit the nail on the head. ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.12 18:42:00 - [27] Edited by: Aramendel on 12/02/2007 18:41:41 Originally by: zevex The fact of the matter is this. These ships *ARE ALREADY BALANCED*!!! ... Without faction gear and implants I can only get a nano/itsab æPhoon going about 3.5k. They were balanced pre-kali. Now, however with instabs and especially rigs.... Have you heard of these neat things? Almost the same boost as a fullgrade snake set, exept it's only about 5% of it's price. I can make a phoon going 4.5 km/s without faction gear (and no t2 nanos) using 5 lows, a t2 MWD, 3 vent rigs and no implants worth more than 30 mil together. With all lows used for speedmods, t2 nanos and lvl 5 instead lvl 4 in acc con I would get 6 km/s.
Ghostshadow Caldari Templars of Space	Posted - 2007.02.12 18:52:00 - [28] The only problem with it that i have is it takes a whole gang, fitted just for that kill, to take it out. my solution to this: All engine power is directed to the MWD, (putting the warp drive offline) thus you cannot warp for 60ish seconds after activating a MWD (you can use a gate though.. and can warp at the other side though. (jumping to another system turns your warpdrive back on). This means that... while they can get OUT of your system about the same way they do now... its a lot harder to get INTO (jumping through then MWD out of the camp.. warping off) and alot harder to STAY in the system. No wreaking havoc on lone ships... then MWD 100km away and warping off when you see a speedy tackler coming by. Another problem is heavyNOS allowing the nanoBS to completly destroy inty tacklers... but that is for another thread. _________________________________ He who laughs last Thinks slowest
Alyth Gallente Battle Tech	Posted - 2007.02.12 19:01:00 - [29] Originally by: Scordite Originally by: zevex The guys that are getting them up to velocities of 8k+ deserver to be able to kick the snot out of you 1v1 (and 1v2 depending on the engagement), because they have invested a considerable amount of time and isk into these characters and ships. Believe me, when you have invested the same amount that they have, you will be able to kill them. If you are unwilling to make said investment, then you should not be allowed to have an opinion on the matter. A nanophoon with 30mil sp pilot, snake set and faction fit would completely mess up, say, a faction/deadspace fitted vindicator with a 50mil sp pilot with full slaves. Now tell me who made the biggest time/isk investment. To top it off, the vindi is toast if it jumps into a 20man gatecamp, the nanophoon will giggle as it runs. Ah but you see you don't need to kill a nanoship to render the investment in time and money a moot point. 3 sensor damps on the target will make it run, ergo saving your ship and making the 2 bill of implants, and however much the setup costs, pointless (and if they don't run they are rather stupid). Winning isn't always about killing.
Scordite	Posted - 2007.02.12 19:07:00 - [30] Originally by: Alyth Ah but you see you don't need to kill a nanoship to render the investment in time and money a moot point. 3 sensor damps on the target will make it run, ergo saving your ship and making the 2 bill of implants, and however much the setup costs, pointless (and if they don't run they are rather stupid). Winning isn't always about killing. You can neutralize the aforementioned vindicator as well, only difference is, he won't be able to run, he will pop once your reinforements arrives. Thus bringing us back to my original point: Nanoships risk less, despite high price. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.

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