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Is this the dumbest 'exploit' ever?

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Warrio	Posted - 2007.02.14 22:52:00 - [1] One of the Veto children in a post on another thread mentioned that if you are war dec'd and you close the dec'd corp and move your members to another corp you will be considered to be exploiting and logically could be banned for it. Besides being a pretty unthoughtout rule is there actually any truth to that statement? If so: What percentage of the players moving is considered exploiting? How long do you have to stay in the corp for before leaving to not be considered exploiting? Who could be banned? The CEO or the members for moving? Sig
Samirol Blood Sweat and Tears	Posted - 2007.02.14 22:57:00 - [2] its okay to close the corp during war and merge into another. Lets say if your corp name was Warrio's corp, and you close it and make Warria's corp, i believe that will border on exploiting.
Morfane The IMorral MAjority Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.14 22:59:00 - [3] Last I read, this is indeed an exploit. What would be point of war declarations if it was legal to do this? I don't know the answer to the rest of your questions. Fortunately, the GM's do, and will be happy to answer your questions in suprisingly short order, after you log in and make an exploit petition.
Warrio	Posted - 2007.02.14 23:00:00 - [4] Edited by: Warrio on 14/02/2007 22:58:27 orly? Ty, tis good to know though enforcing it would be near impossible considering the GM's don't even seem to be able to weed out macrominers when the warning signs essentially step out and punch you in the face. Sig
Brisi Veto.	Posted - 2007.02.14 23:13:00 - [5] Sorry if somebody's playstyle doesn't suit you mr. Mature-GrownUp, but that doesn't necessarily make them children. To actually answer your question, it's not an exploit to close a corp and leave. But it is an exploit if you all leave the corp, and reform with all the same member under a different name. Or if you all leave the corp, and join it once the war is over. In short, jumping corps to avoid war dec's is an exploit. Resistance is Fertile.
Delivery Bloke Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.14 23:13:00 - [6] IMO its not an exploit, I mean you have made them disband and forced them to make another corp(you win the war?). Sometimes it seems like things are getting beyond a joke when every little annoyance is being claimed an exploit, it may be cowardly but exploit I don't think so, who wants to spend there day jumping from corp to corp ? and on reflection only small 'easy gankable' corps would do this so whats the problem ?
Brisi Veto.	Posted - 2007.02.14 23:19:00 - [7] Originally by: Delivery Bloke IMO its not an exploit, I mean you have made them disband and forced them to make another corp(you win the war?). Sometimes it seems like things are getting beyond a joke when every little annoyance is being claimed an exploit, it may be cowardly but exploit I don't think so, who wants to spend there day jumping from corp to corp ? and on reflection only small 'easy gankable' corps would do this so whats the problem ? I am quite sure that the GM's wouldn't ban anyone for just disbanding and making another corp, however, if the attacking corp war dec's the new corp, and you jump corps again, then the ban-bat will swing down upon you. Well maybe not, but you'll most likely get a GM saying it's a no-no, and to not do it again. Resistance is Fertile.
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.02.14 23:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Morfane Last I read, this is indeed an exploit. What would be point of war declarations if it was legal to do this? Show me real proof of a corp that got punished for doing it and i'll wire 50m ISK to the character of your choosing. There are certain rules that GM's do not enforce and this happens to be one of them. If you really out did yourselves and recreated a corp of the same people like 15 times, you just might draw some attention to you. But otherwise I doubt the GMs will ever take notice. Another good example is impersonating a fellow player. EULA says its "stricly forbidden to impersonate CCP staff, GM's, fellow players blabla yadaya" but ingame it simply isn't enforced. I read accounts of people impersonating a CEO/someones friend et cetera all the time in order to pull off scams and no one bats an eyelid.
Delivery Bloke Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.14 23:38:00 - [9] Edited by: Delivery Bloke on 14/02/2007 23:39:16 Originally by: Brisi Originally by: Delivery Bloke IMO its not an exploit, I mean you have made them disband and forced them to make another corp(you win the war?). Sometimes it seems like things are getting beyond a joke when every little annoyance is being claimed an exploit, it may be cowardly but exploit I don't think so, who wants to spend there day jumping from corp to corp ? and on reflection only small 'easy gankable' corps would do this so whats the problem ? I am quite sure that the GM's wouldn't ban anyone for just disbanding and making another corp, however, if the attacking corp war dec's the new corp, and you jump corps again, then the ban-bat will swing down upon you. Well maybe not, but you'll most likely get a GM saying it's a no-no, and to not do it again. Seriously though, what corp worth it salt is going to use this 'trick' ? imo the only corps that are going to do this are the that don't have the skills/experiance to fight back. This is largley about "OMG we didn't get our gank's from that newb industrial corp" If the GM's start clamping down on things like this then some of the people that might have go on to stronger corps maybe but will go back to NPC corps instead(e.g first experiance in a corp got war decced for like a 3 weeks lost all my stuff, wtf back to NPC I go player cors are crap) , do we want that ? When the people will stops doing this when they are ready or they get tired of jumping corps and think right fight back or w/e options they have (i.e. pay mercs ect). My questions is why does it bother the OP so much that a few newbs want to dodge a fight?
R0ME0	Posted - 2007.02.15 00:26:00 - [10] I can confirm corp hopping can be considered an exploit, and in a case which is being mentioned in the OP, i have raise this before with a GM when someone mentioned it to my self when i was looking in to ways to avoid a war dec my corp was in. My Eve Blog - LAST UPDATE : 14th FEB 07

R0ME0	Posted - 2007.02.15 00:31:00 - [11] Edited by: R0ME0 on 15/02/2007 00:32:10 Originally by: Nir Another good example is impersonating a fellow player. EULA says its "stricly forbidden to impersonate CCP staff, GM's, fellow players blabla yadaya" but ingame it simply isn't enforced Thats actually very false.. People know me now due to some of the scams i do, one of which, which i have not mentioned much until now really is a IPO scam with ISS Shares. I created a corp name which was almost identical to one of the ISS corps by replacing the letter "o" with a number "0" this made it impossible for anyone without any ISS shares to confirm if the shares where real or fake. I then sold these shares to a couple of players and made well over 600million isk doing so very easy, and got away with it. However i found out about The EULA issue which you mention and brought it to the attention of the GMS my self, as i was unsure about this. They confirmed this was infact a bannable offence and considered an exploite and pointed me to the same reference in the EULA. Normally its delt with a warning followed by a BAN period and they will inforce this regardless if a victim makes them aware of this. And this is speaking from 1 on 1 experience, not hear say. My Eve Blog - LAST UPDATE : 14th FEB 07
Dark Astiria	Posted - 2007.02.15 00:39:00 - [12] Originally by: Delivery Bloke IMO its not an exploit, I mean you have made them disband and forced them to make another corp(you win the war?). Sometimes it seems like things are getting beyond a joke when every little annoyance is being claimed an exploit, it may be cowardly but exploit I don't think so, who wants to spend there day jumping from corp to corp ? and on reflection only small 'easy gankable' corps would do this so whats the problem ? imo? no offence mate but your opinion really doesn't matter. ccp's does, and they have stated several times that war avoidence is an exploit and i have known ppl before being thrown back into the corp by gm's. leaving the corp because u don't want the war is fine but starting a new corp with the same members in is not. and to ppl saying they can't prove it. this is not totally true but also irrelevant. that's like saying you would commit murder if they couldn't prove it was you. still makes u a muppet for doing it.
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.02.15 00:50:00 - [13] Originally by: R0ME0 snip Actually we're both right, in a sense. Recreating corp names as you described is so blatantly obvious that they do in deed follow up on that. I've heard of people doing this to bait wartargets into firing on them. But say you spoke with a friend of mine on an alt called "Nir's HaulerAlt" and swindled some ISK of him. This sort of thing takes place ingame all the time, it gets mentioned on the forum even. Its in situations like these where GM's just go "Mweh too much hard work to pull logs" and just aren't bothered.
Delivery Bloke Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.15 02:04:00 - [14] Edited by: Delivery Bloke on 15/02/2007 02:02:12 Originally by: Dark Astiria Originally by: Delivery Bloke IMO its not an exploit, I mean you have made them disband and forced them to make another corp(you win the war?). Sometimes it seems like things are getting beyond a joke when every little annoyance is being claimed an exploit, it may be cowardly but exploit I don't think so, who wants to spend there day jumping from corp to corp ? and on reflection only small 'easy gankable' corps would do this so whats the problem ? imo? no offence mate but your opinion really doesn't matter. ccp's does, and they have stated several times that war avoidence is an exploit and i have known ppl before being thrown back into the corp by gm's. leaving the corp because u don't want the war is fine but starting a new corp with the same members in is not. and to ppl saying they can't prove it. this is not totally true but also irrelevant. that's like saying you would commit murder if they couldn't prove it was you. still makes u a muppet for doing it. Quote: Is this the the dumbest 'exploit' ever Who was he asking the community(thats what I thought) if so IMO(no offence taken). I personally have not seen any blogs or w/e on this matter if you would be glad to direct to one I will gladly read them. If this is indeed an exploit which from your post and ROMEO's is sounding more likely, then proving it, is not irrelevant from a point of policing this issue, proof must be had before action can be taken or CCP would look bad if they started banning newbs for this because they think they are exploiting. (the recent fiasco springs to mind where people were complaining about this and that but there was no 'proof'). But from a moral stand point yea it bad to do bad stuff just beacuse you can get away with it, but is it really that bad ? If you start removing 'safety nets' like this then some people will never join a player corp and that is my real problem here, we need to get people out of NPC corps and let them see the benefits of a player corp. We do not need to blow newbs straight back into them. There's a hell of alot of people in NPC corps who don't have any characters in player corps at all. Which would you rather have :- a) People stay in NPC corps until ............... b) People who corp hop to avoid war, who then will probaly see the benefits of a player corp and either stand and fight or move to a better player corp . This is all my opinion and if we don't ask questions or put idea's across(right or wrong) then things will never improve. Do you think people should get banned for corp hopping ? (and before anyone says 'what you think doesn't matter' thats wrong because im sure the DEV's in the past have taken players views/ideas on board)
vile56 Nubs. Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.15 02:44:00 - [15] its not illegal to change corps, just like its not illegal to log off, its illegal to change corps durring a dec wait till dec is done then rejoin old corp
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.02.15 03:00:00 - [16] Corp jumping is not an exploit. I have had GM's tell me it's an exploit, while other GM's tell me it's okay. Heres the deal, I war dec corporations that are farmer organizations (Look up the employment history of "HippySurfer"), anyways heres what happens: 1. I war dec 2. They all quit and make a new corp 3. I war dec 4. They all quit and make a new corp 5. I war dec 6. They all quit and make a new corp 7. I war dec 8. They all quit and make a new corp 9. I war dec 10. They all quit and make a new corp 11. I war dec 12. They all quit and make a new corp 13. I war dec 14. They all quit and make a new corp 15. I war dec 16. They all quit and make a new corp 17. I war dec 18. They all quit and make a new corp 19. I war dec 20. They all quit and make a new corp 21. I petition with their bloody obvious list of jumping corporations to avoid war and nothing happens. So, it must not be an exploit or a bannable offense. 2 Billion ISK Contest
Aramova Gallente Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.15 06:08:00 - [17] Originally by: voogru Corp jumping is not an exploit. I have had GM's tell me it's an exploit, while other GM's tell me it's okay. Heres the deal, I war dec corporations that are farmer organizations (Look up the employment history of "HippySurfer"), anyways heres what happens: 1. I war dec 2. They all quit and make a new corp 3. I war dec 4. They all quit and make a new corp 5. I war dec 6. They all quit and make a new corp 7. I war dec 8. They all quit and make a new corp 9. I war dec 10. They all quit and make a new corp 11. I war dec 12. They all quit and make a new corp 13. I war dec 14. They all quit and make a new corp 15. I war dec 16. They all quit and make a new corp 17. I war dec 18. They all quit and make a new corp 19. I war dec 20. They all quit and make a new corp 21. I petition with their bloody obvious list of jumping corporations to avoid war and nothing happens. So, it must not be an exploit or a bannable offense. /signed, happened to me. I attempted to petition someone who jumped corps, and the GM told me it's okay. I wish they would communicate these kind of policies to the entire staff.. Perhaps the Eve staff could benefit from some ITIL methods and practices... -- Lag is kinda like CYVOK, it kills as many friendlies as hostiles...
Tacyon	Posted - 2007.02.15 06:47:00 - [18] Originally by: Warrio One of the Veto children Say wha...? --- The 'o.0'-boy.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.02.15 07:06:00 - [19] I don't see this as any different than the tactic used by the Privateers where corps come and go out of that alliance during war time. They come in shoot a few days, then leave so that they can go back to earning money. If disbanding a corp and forming a new one is an exploit to avoid a war then leaving an alliance should be as well.....
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.02.15 10:02:00 - [20] Does anybody know what the deal is with Wardecs that are retracted in the same minute they are made? Is it just so that a bunch of Privateer Styled Wannabees have raised a gang for an evening and want a nice easy evening ganking with no retribution the following day? Or is there something far more exploitative going? Eve: Cheats prosper.

DarkElf Caldari Veto. Academy	Posted - 2007.02.15 10:36:00 - [21] Originally by: Gaven Blands Does anybody know what the deal is with Wardecs that are retracted in the same minute they are made? Is it just so that a bunch of Privateer Styled Wannabees have raised a gang for an evening and want a nice easy evening ganking with no retribution the following day? Or is there something far more exploitative going? i haven't heard of it being used much tbh. only alliances can do it without a vote first as far as i know and it doesn't sit particularly well with me as sounds like a blatant exploit despite the fact that apparently a gm has said atm it isn't so don't see too many ppl using it. imo needs to get sorted tho. the 24 hours is there for a reason. DE
Larkonis Trassler g guild	Posted - 2007.02.15 10:39:00 - [22] Originally by: El'Niaga I don't see this as any different than the tactic used by the Privateers where corps come and go out of that alliance during war time. They come in shoot a few days, then leave so that they can go back to earning money. If disbanding a corp and forming a new one is an exploit to avoid a war then leaving an alliance should be as well..... Post with your main... And FYI plenty of corps leave Alliances when Privateers dec them too... works both ways mate. ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler
D2O HeavyWater Amarr Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.02.15 10:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Warrio One of the Veto children in a post on another thread mentioned that if you are war dec'd and you close the dec'd corp and move your members to another corp you will be considered to be exploiting and logically could be banned for it. Besides being a pretty unthoughtout rule is there actually any truth to that statement? If so: What percentage of the players moving is considered exploiting? How long do you have to stay in the corp for before leaving to not be considered exploiting? Who could be banned? The CEO or the members for moving? This is not an exploit. I had a corp pop my hulk in empire using a caracal gank, I war dec'd em, it takes 24 hours before I can shoot em. After the 24 hrs had passed I go looking for the corp and they have all switched to a new corp. So I war dec the new corp <<<<repeat over a 2 week period. I petitiond it and was told that is not an exploit to switch corps to avoid a war dec. What is an exploit is if you switch back to a previous corp to avoid a war dec. For example Corp A gets war dec'd and so all members jump to corp B. Corp A war dec gets cancelled and Corp B get war dec'd. All members then jump back to corp A. However after about a month of these guys switching corps they did eventually start going back to there previous corps so great now I can re petition and get something done. I was basically told to go away and close the petition. So even if they do use the exploit situation of swapping to and from new - previous corps it will not be enforced by the GM's This happened to me around 6 months ago I refuse to close the petition as it has not been dealt with. I have raised to a senior GM which is pretty much as high as I can go, and he advised me to close the petition.
xOm3gAx Caldari Stain of Mind DAMAGE INC...	Posted - 2007.02.15 16:52:00 - [24] Edited by: xOm3gAx on 15/02/2007 16:50:41 Originally by: Aramova Originally by: voogru Corp jumping is not an exploit. I have had GM's tell me it's an exploit, while other GM's tell me it's okay. Heres the deal, I war dec corporations that are farmer organizations (Look up the employment history of "HippySurfer"), anyways heres what happens: 1. I war dec 2. They all quit and make a new corp 3. I war dec 4. They all quit and make a new corp 5. I war dec 6. They all quit and make a new corp 7. I war dec 8. They all quit and make a new corp 9. I war dec 10. They all quit and make a new corp 11. I war dec 12. They all quit and make a new corp 13. I war dec 14. They all quit and make a new corp 15. I war dec 16. They all quit and make a new corp 17. I war dec 18. They all quit and make a new corp 19. I war dec 20. They all quit and make a new corp 21. I petition with their bloody obvious list of jumping corporations to avoid war and nothing happens. So, it must not be an exploit or a bannable offense. /signed, happened to me. I attempted to petition someone who jumped corps, and the GM told me it's okay. I wish they would communicate these kind of policies to the entire staff.. Perhaps the Eve staff could benefit from some ITIL methods and practices... Send a mail back to the gm and request and elevation to a senior gm. edit: and jsut for the record im old enough to remember this being an exploit and remember people being banned for it. So the gm's are slacking off. ----------- "Mercinaries never die, we just go to hell to regroup." -xOm3gAx '99
Zimroel The Blackstone Group Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.02.15 17:06:00 - [25] Originally by: Gaven Blands Does anybody know what the deal is with Wardecs that are retracted in the same minute they are made? Is it just so that a bunch of Privateer Styled Wannabees have raised a gang for an evening and want a nice easy evening ganking with no retribution the following day? Or is there something far more exploitative going? I've seen a bunch of these - and they're just a side-effect of the way game mechanics work on war-decs. What basically happens is that Alliance X war-decs your alliance. Corp A then leaves Alliance X. You get a mail saying corp A has war-decced you - followed immediately by a mail say corp A has retracted the war. This is because corp A has to have the 24 hour cool-down period (otherwise imagine what happens if they leave in the middle of a high-sec battle) but Alliance X paid for the war-dec, not corp A - so as corp A is leaving the alliance the war can no longer continue for them. If Privs war-dec you expect to get spammed by this sort of mail.


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