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Isean
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Posted - 2007.02.15 13:20:00 -
[1]
Hmm..My thoughts for a Fleet based Rokh. DO NOT GO SOLO IN THIS.
Hi: 7 350mm Prototype Large Rails
1 Small Tractor Beam
Med:3 Invul II
1 XL Shield Booster
1 Shield Boost Amp
1 Large Cap Injector (800s of course)
Low:1 Large Armor Repairer
1 1600mm Rolled Tungsten
3 Armor Hardeners (N-type of each but EM)
Rig:1 Trimark Armor
1 Core Defense Extender
1 Capacitor Control Circuit
This is a design for SURVIVABILITY. I have good shield tanking because I rat in a raven, and Ive been training my armor tank for PvP...this Rohk uses both to live longer. The tractor beam though, is the key. In a fleet engagement against hardcore PvPers, I rely on one thing...the enemiess overview. People dont fight with wrecks or cans on the overview when in a feelt engagement. Thats when you get a transport ship with say, 10k m3 of 800 cap boosters and ammo to warp in and drop a can and BM the can. The rokh gets the BM, goes to the can tractors it close, and BAM...for the rest of the fight, you should have a can full of goodies tagging along with you. If you dont think you can get ENOUGH cap, drop a shield hardener for another booster. Rokhs are expensive, and without cap ships, your likely to be a primary because you are a shield tanker. Time in the fight matters most. This design is a stay it through design. Youre not a bigg DPS ship, youre only meant to make it through and pound what you can. I havent tried this yet, but I look forward to testing my can theory. Give me all the opinions/advice/flaming you want. I welcome it.
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enymphia
Vortex.
Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.15 13:25:00 -
[2]
Edited by: enymphia on 15/02/2007 13:22:00
Really interesting reading i must say. But, none of the 2 tanks will help you that much when you have lets say 10 bs's + support pounding at you. the shield booster wont keep up and same for the LAR
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DarkElf
Caldari
Veto. Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.15 13:31:00 -
[3]
sorry mate but imo it's aweful.
firstly. the rokh has no dmg bonus so without any mag stabs and t1 guns ur dps is gonna be that of a wet fish.
also in fleets it'smore about hp than it is resists and repping/boosting amount so i would not even use a shield booster if i were u. maybe the armour rep for after the fight tho. plates and extenders are ur friends here and possibly 1 invuln.
also u have no tracking mods so smaller ships will take too long to kill. and no sensor boosters so if ur against any decent fleet then by the time u've locked and killed 2 bs, half urs is already gone.
hope this helps
DE
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eRabbit
5punkorp
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.15 13:34:00 -
[4]
A shield tanking fleet ship doesn't need a booster, it won't help in the fight and afterwards your shield can recharge itself, use any med slots you have left after sensor boosters and tracking computers for shield extenders and hardeners.
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AshFish
Rapid Attack Samurai Sloth's
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Posted - 2007.02.15 13:39:00 -
[5]
Unfortunatly, In fleet, tank is of no real importance and range and tracking are.
The free resistances on the rokh are great to help out and 6 mids, 4 lows lends itself to a nice fleet fitting with a bit of tank (that may allow you to warp out before you pop, if the lag isn't too bad)
My set-up
High:
8 x 425's (350's if you have to coz of fitting, but it will limit both your damage and range)
Mid:
2 x sensor boosters
2 x tracking computers
2 x large shield extenders ( all the tank you should be looking at, the hp are nice and the other mods don't really need a 3rd)
Low:
2 x mag stabs
2 x tracking enhancers
Tech 2 where you can afford and drop a mag stab for an RCU if fitting the guns becomes an issue
That was the best I could ever come up with for long range fleet anyway, would like some imput for better use of the mids if anyone as any ideas.
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Viscount Hood
British Space Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.15 13:39:00 -
[6]
I don't get the whole tractor beam thing? Your using it as extra storage space?
what happens when your FC tells you to warp off?
Running a XL Shield booster and a Large armour repair means your eating through 800 or so cap every 4 secs. Your cap injector won't keep up.
Like the previous post, you get primaried, you won't be able to tank fast enough.
Its really one or the other, and the Rokh has natural shield resists per level, so i'd shield tank.
If you want to survive better fit damage control, plates or nano's.
Also think about your lock times and range so fit sensor boosters.
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JTKevin89
Gallente
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2007.02.15 13:51:00 -
[7]
m8 u are more useful in a batam than in a rokh with that setup!
fleet fit is damage at range NOT survivability. u want 3 sensor boosters, 3 tracking computers, 3 mag stabs T2 and damage control and med armour repperfor after battle. use 425mm rails (T2 if u can) not 350's as they suckz0r.
use antimatter from 0-70km
javlin 0-50km
iridium 70-110
spike 100-200km (dependand on skills)
u warp in at sniper point, as soon as u drop from warp align for ur safespot. pew pew away and wen u start taking damage double check u r aligned and when u hit say 80% structure or so warp out. if u r taking damage hard warp out earlier but if its managable that damage control will keep u in there to get rid of tht primary. the ammo u use is essential... make sure u cam it from where u r landing as soon as u land i.e be ready with proper ammo loaded.
rokh is a awesome fleet ship but never tank a fleet ship as it will gimp what
what it was set out to do.
Hope this helps
JT
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Isean
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Posted - 2007.02.15 13:51:00 -
[8]
Well the whole Idea is just to basically be able to sit there and take the beating off of your fleet mates, THEY are the DPS, not you, so basically the rails are just to add in, not to be the main punch, thats why its only meant as a fleet build. I can see how sheer AMOUNT would help more than resists in a battle though. Yeah, theres no way to keep the booster/rep up to keep it from getting through, so what about just shield extending and armor plating the CRAP out of it to make it as healthy and HP max as possible. That way you can also drop the can idea as you wouldnt be boosting/repping, and you can get another rail in if you want. My idea wasnt to do damage, but to be a nice, shiny ship that everyone wants to kill, and is just the toughest nut out there. Using 2 tanks just makes it tougher. I want it to live the longest so that while its primary, the enemy is feeling the hurt my fleet is causing.
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JTKevin89
Gallente
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2007.02.15 13:56:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Isean
In a fleet engagement against hardcore PvPers, I rely on one thing...the enemiess overview
have you ever won 0.o i bet u got ur ass handed to u big time and its ur FC's and squad leaders job to make sure u r fitted properly! shame on them ^^
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DarkElf
Caldari
Veto. Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.15 13:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: AshFish
Unfortunatly, In fleet, tank is of no real importance and range and tracking are.
The free resistances on the rokh are great to help out and 6 mids, 4 lows lends itself to a nice fleet fitting with a bit of tank (that may allow you to warp out before you pop, if the lag isn't too bad)
My set-up
High:
8 x 425's (350's if you have to coz of fitting, but it will limit both your damage and range)
Mid:
2 x sensor boosters
2 x tracking computers
2 x large shield extenders ( all the tank you should be looking at, the hp are nice and the other mods don't really need a 3rd)
Low:
2 x mag stabs
2 x tracking enhancers
Tech 2 where you can afford and drop a mag stab for an RCU if fitting the guns becomes an issue
That was the best I could ever come up with for long range fleet anyway, would like some imput for better use of the mids if anyone as any ideas.
now that is a typical fleet setup and works extremely well. good hp, good dmg and tracking. the rest aint that important
DE
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Isean
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Posted - 2007.02.15 13:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Isean
I havent tried this yet,
Theres my own quote, its an idea, not a real ship. Im getting people opinions before I stick this into a PvP.
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JTKevin89
Gallente
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2007.02.15 13:59:00 -
[12]
Edited by: JTKevin89 on 15/02/2007 13:56:27
if u have that setup u would die so quick anyway. the biggest way not to die is to warp out and then back in! tanking does not help! u will still die in ~5-10 secs. if u hav a naglfar with capital remote reps u would still die! if u r primary u r dead if u dont warp out... simple.
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AshFish
Rapid Attack Samurai Sloth's
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Posted - 2007.02.15 14:01:00 -
[13]
The thing is that (someone correct me if i'm wrong) the average fleet BS is chucking out 200-300 dps. Concentrated fire is the only way that the fleets are effective. Therefore even in small skirmishes, 10BS say, your looking at 2000-3000 dps. Those numbers are pretty much untankable. If you get up to big engagments, 50-100 BS +support then the dps is unmanageable.
You can create "sponge" set-ups on some of the BS, scorp, phoon and geddon come to mind, but they are purely there to bait an enemy and soak up damage till the fleet arrives. Rarely will they ever survive unless they manage to warp out.
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JTKevin89
Gallente
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2007.02.15 14:07:00 -
[14]
if ur having to bait a fleet its cos that fleet has less numbers than u an they r probably gonna run wen they see u. a fleet is really ment to attack other fleets that are say for example shooting ur pos and u dont need a sponge for that. sponge BS are only needed for smaller gangs that are trying to lure people into traps
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enymphia
Vortex.
Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.15 14:12:00 -
[15]
Edited by: enymphia on 15/02/2007 14:08:47
Originally by: Isean
Using 2 tanks just makes it tougher
it wont be tough at all trust me, u cant tank in fleetbattles there's no way in hell anything can keep up with the damage you will be taking.
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Isean
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Posted - 2007.02.15 14:13:00 -
[16]
Hmm...point taken, yet maybe this crazy build would still be useful for the smaller engagements, say breaking a camp. First BS to warp in, go with a few support ships to make it look like the real attempt, and when youre primary, and acting as a huge sponge, you can get the rest of the bs gang in. It may work as a double tank against only 4-5 BSs in a decent camp. hmm...still some things to think over. Thanks all, and no, I dont think you'll be seeing it in a fleet engagment now.
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Ishana
Minmatar
The Black Rabbits
Fatal Persuasion
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Posted - 2007.02.15 14:14:00 -
[17]
The OP's setup is so bad I don't even know were to start...
You are not going to be able to tank in a fleet fight. The only thing you can hope to do is survive long enough to warp out.
Lag will be so bad that you'll be waiting MINUTES before anything works. Getting 800 charges out of a can? lol don't worry you'll never empty your cap booster with the lag you get.
Shield and armor repairing is a terrible idea in any situation.
From the situation you discribe I'm guessing you never been in a fleet fight. My advise is to take a cheap ship and experience a few first.
You'll see the flaws in that setup soon enough.
_________________________________________________________
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DarkElf
Caldari
Veto. Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.15 14:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Isean
Hmm...point taken, yet maybe this crazy build would still be useful for the smaller engagements, say breaking a camp. First BS to warp in, go with a few support ships to make it look like the real attempt, and when youre primary, and acting as a huge sponge, you can get the rest of the bs gang in. It may work as a double tank against only 4-5 BSs in a decent camp. hmm...still some things to think over. Thanks all, and no, I dont think you'll be seeing it in a fleet engagment now.
yeah in small engagements where ur dmg isn't really important and won't be taking huge amounts of dps then it could work as just a bait ship.
DE
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JTKevin89
Gallente
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2007.02.15 14:19:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Isean
Hmm...point taken, yet maybe this crazy build would still be useful for the smaller engagements, say breaking a camp. First BS to warp in, go with a few support ships to make it look like the real attempt, and when youre primary, and acting as a huge sponge, you can get the rest of the bs gang in. It may work as a double tank against only 4-5 BSs in a decent camp. hmm...still some things to think over. Thanks all, and no, I dont think you'll be seeing it in a fleet engagment now.
do u hav a fetish for sponges 0.o and no u would never send u in first u whould send a dictor to bubble them and then everyone would jump stay cloaked and the FC would press the "regroup" buton and everyone would uncload together and pwn them . damage and tank fit for cloase range engangement(shield tank, damge mods in the lows and blasters).
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Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.02.15 18:44:00 -
[20]
If you are using tech I guns, I would use 425 mm ones.
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Zembla
Caldari
Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2007.02.15 19:19:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Zembla on 15/02/2007 19:16:12
Originally by: Isean
Hmm...point taken, yet maybe this crazy build would still be useful for the smaller engagements, say breaking a camp. First BS to warp in, go with a few support ships to make it look like the real attempt, and when youre primary, and acting as a huge sponge, you can get the rest of the bs gang in. It may work as a double tank against only 4-5 BSs in a decent camp. hmm...still some things to think over. Thanks all, and no, I dont think you'll be seeing it in a fleet engagment now.
Not even in a small engagement would I go for something like that. By your logic the best tanked ship would be a ship that both shield tanks and armor tanks. That would mean that the notorious monster tanks out there are double tanks... which isn't the case. If you want to have a proper tank, fit EITHER an armor repairer or a shield booster. Not both. You can fit a plate if you have a shield tank, and you can fit a shield extender if you have an armor tank because those things just increase your hp's, but going for a double tank is just madness to be honest.
The problem with a double tank is, when are you going to activate the one and when the other? The answer to this is obvious, you'll shield boost when you're into shields, and then once they hit your armor you'll shield boost and armor rep at the same time. Let's also assume a tank fails for either/combo/all of the following reasons: it can't rep enough in time or it doesn't have enough cap. Then what does that mean for your tank? If you shield tank, and it fails, it can't rep enough in time, ok, now activating the armor tank will bring you to the second problem, no cap, and an injector will far from keep up. This means that no matter what, your tank will be broken.
You need to either focus on shield or armor tanking.
<Z>
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Quutar
Caldari
Auraxian Irregulars
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Posted - 2007.02.15 19:37:00 -
[22]
This seams to fit
8x 425mm Railgun II
2x Tracking Computer II
2x Sensor Booster II
2x Large Shield Extender II
2x Tracking Enhancer II
2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
1x Power Diagnostic System II (even with AWU 5, need more grid)
not sure what rigs would work... if you even want rigs
maybe shield size rigs for buffer
maybe grid rigs so you can fit a third magstab?
agility rig so you can warp out faster?
targeting range/time rigs (thought they are penalized with the sensor boosters)
some of the hybrid gun rigs? (though they would be penalized with the mag stabs and tracking computers, and might require a RCU instead of a PCU in the low)
Not finding research slots in Empire Space? Try Quutar Research Services. |
Trillian Mcmillan
Cry Me A River Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.15 20:06:00 -
[23]
Originally by: DarkElf
Originally by: AshFish
Unfortunatly, In fleet, tank is of no real importance and range and tracking are.
The free resistances on the rokh are great to help out and 6 mids, 4 lows lends itself to a nice fleet fitting with a bit of tank (that may allow you to warp out before you pop, if the lag isn't too bad)
My set-up
High:
8 x 425's (350's if you have to coz of fitting, but it will limit both your damage and range)
Mid:
2 x sensor boosters
2 x tracking computers
2 x large shield extenders ( all the tank you should be looking at, the hp are nice and the other mods don't really need a 3rd)
Low:
2 x mag stabs
2 x tracking enhancers
Tech 2 where you can afford and drop a mag stab for an RCU if fitting the guns becomes an issue
That was the best I could ever come up with for long range fleet anyway, would like some imput for better use of the mids if anyone as any ideas.
now that is a typical fleet setup and works extremely well. good hp, good dmg and tracking. the rest aint that important
DE
except the rokh has 5 lows :)))
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Quutar
Caldari
Auraxian Irregulars
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Posted - 2007.02.15 20:14:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Quutar on 15/02/2007 20:11:58
After talking to a friend who is allot more experienced than me, I decided to see what else I could come up with based his recommendation. He also reminded me about the cap use of the guns... forgot to think about those. No way to keep the cap going with the MWD... so put on an injector.
Rokh
8x 425mm Railgun II [13xSpike L]
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
2x Tracking Computer II
2x Sensor Booster II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II
3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Signal Amplifier II
Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
2x Ancillary Current Router I
with only two tracking computers, the optimal is 257km, so the tracking enhancers are not needed. I am not sure how much tracking is needed, so I guess put them back if the tracking is needed, but at 249km engagement range?
the shield extenders were replaced with a mwd for dealing with bubble camps and for general utility. the cap injector lets you keep shooting longer, and was not intended for the MWD (since according to the dev blog, that function will be adjusted soon)
The DCU gives a little bit of "opps" room... and the signal amp is to help with lock time, since the targeting range is already above 250km
Not finding research slots in Empire Space? Try Quutar Research Services. |
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