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OCTOBER SNOW (SNOWY) does not honor ransoms.

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T'Renn Crimson Squall	Posted - 2007.02.15 20:33:00 - [1] So trying to get an arazu to me with my hauler alt and came to the snowy camp in hag. Asked for ransom, Tiller said 100m. I paid. I uncloaked, they popped me anyway. Later, Tiller said "oh, you paid." And then "You paid too late." Any excuse will do, eh guys? Told you I was a hauler alt. Oh well. You should have honored the ransom. I'm not a whining carebear freaking out about a 200m+ loss, just saying what you do is bad for business for the rest of us. --
Lord BlackSter The Syndicate Inc INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.15 20:40:00 - [2] This is Oktober Snow ... do not expect much honor.
T'Renn Crimson Squall	Posted - 2007.02.15 20:43:00 - [3] Originally by: Lord BlackSter This is Oktober Snow ... do not expect much honor. See I knew someone was going to say something like that. I had a different impression, but whatever. It's not a game killer for me but I do think a forum post about it is appropriate, considering I do ransom and do honor ransoms. If no ransom option were available, they should have said that and popped me -- or better yet, refunded the 100m isk when they popped me anyway. Either would have been fine. But to take my ransom, pop my hauler and then not repay? That's bad form. Whatever though. Everyone runs their corps differently. Do not pay these guys ransom is all I'm saying. --
Samirol Blood Sweat and Tears	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:02:00 - [4] Edited by: Samirol on 15/02/2007 20:59:36 when i was in snowy, we honored every ransom. I am sure they will give you back the money. did you mail ginger before coming to the forums to whine? did you mail tiller asking for a refund? Listen to Dev Radio!
T'Renn Crimson Squall	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:03:00 - [5] Originally by: Samirol when i was in snowy, we honored every ransom. I am sure they will give you back the money. If that were going to happen, it would have happened already. --
Samirol Blood Sweat and Tears	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:05:00 - [6] Originally by: T'Renn Originally by: Samirol when i was in snowy, we honored every ransom. I am sure they will give you back the money. If that were going to happen, it would have happened already. did you mail ginger? Listen to Dev Radio!
T'Renn Crimson Squall	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:06:00 - [7] Originally by: Samirol did you mail ginger? Ginger was there, Gadget :) --
Samirol Blood Sweat and Tears	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:07:00 - [8] Originally by: T'Renn Originally by: Samirol did you mail ginger? Ginger was there, Gadget :) ginger usually does the ransoms, if tiller did it, there may have been a breakdown of communication. Did you tell what happened directly to ginger and try to get it resolved before going to the forums for help? Listen to Dev Radio!
T'Renn Crimson Squall	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:10:00 - [9] Originally by: Samirol Did you tell what happened directly to ginger and try to get it resolved before going to the forums for help? I'm not going to feel bad about coming to the forums about it. I mail Ginger for what - to get smacked? They gave a ransom amount, I paid, they popped my ship anyway when I uncloaked off the gate. All well and good and fair, but you gotta repay that ransom if you don't want a forum post about it. That's just the way it is. If they repay the ransom, I'll make this post go away. Until that happens they don't honor ransoms so it should be here. --
Devian 666 KAIZEN BROTHERHOOD	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:13:00 - [10] You should ask for a refund. If you don't get a refund of the ransom then you actually have something to complain about. Again sort this out before you come running to the forums. Cool an orange sig
Samirol Blood Sweat and Tears	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:13:00 - [11] Originally by: T'Renn Originally by: Samirol Did you tell what happened directly to ginger and try to get it resolved before going to the forums for help? I'm not going to feel bad about coming to the forums about it. I mail Ginger for what - to get smacked? They gave a ransom amount, I paid, they popped my ship anyway when I uncloaked off the gate. All well and good and fair, but you gotta repay that ransom if you don't want a forum post about it. That's just the way it is. If they repay the ransom, I'll make this post go away. Until that happens they don't honor ransoms so it should be here. IMO, going to the forums whining about a broken ransom should be what you do if the CEO says "**** off" and doesnt repay it. Whining on the forums should be a last resort, not your first impulse IMHO. Listen to Dev Radio!
T'Renn Crimson Squall	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Samirol IMO, going to the forums whining about a broken ransom should be what you do if the CEO says "eff off" and doesnt repay it. Whining on the forums should be a last resort, not your first impulse IMHO. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I don't think either Ginger or Tiller will have a hard time seeing this post - they know the URL to this forum. I'm not going to eve-mail ginger magician begging like a peasant. Also - who's whining? I'm just making it known that SNOWY doesn't honor ransoms. I know that these are your boys, and I like you a lot, but seriously you're telling me you wouldn't make a post about it if it were you instead of me? If so great - but this is how I choose to deal with it. I'm not being disrespectful to SNOWY or anyone else by divulging the circumstances regarding a "broken" (read: dishonored) ransom. There's no such thing as a "broken" ransom. Ransoms are honored or they're not. It's quite boolean actually. --
Crimson Onyx Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:19:00 - [13] I can just predict that this topic will stretch to 5 pages of intense flaming...
T'Renn Crimson Squall	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:22:00 - [14] Originally by: Crimson Onyx I can just predict that this topic will stretch to 5 pages of intense flaming... Well you won't get any flames out of me. It's unprofessional. --
Wardog 1 Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.15 22:38:00 - [15] Pfft just go back to VHI renn
Scoundrelus's Alt	Posted - 2007.02.15 22:40:00 - [16] Originally by: Samirol Edited by: Samirol on 15/02/2007 20:59:36 when i was in snowy, we honored every ransom. I am sure they will give you back the money. did you mail ginger before coming to the forums to whine? did you mail tiller asking for a refund? You suck a lot of Octobersnow **** don't you.
T'Renn Crimson Squall	Posted - 2007.02.15 22:48:00 - [17] Originally by: Wardog 1 Pfft just go back to VHI renn I love VHI but I'm concentrating on lowsec piracy and it's like I said earlier - I'm not going to fly the SMASH flag if I'm not going to be down there helping to protect their interests. It's disingenuous to the alliance. I'm okay doing my own thing right now. We obviously remain friends and I hope to have a close relationship with the members of VHI for the rest of my playing days in Eve. Originally by: Scoundrelus's Alt You suck a lot of Octobersnow dang don't you. Dude...just GTFO with that. Samirol was just stating his opinion - there's no need to flame him for his relationship with SNOWY. Really - give it a rest. I don't care about BFLT / SNOWY politics one bit. -- http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=476384&page=1#1Click me to learn how to
Dr Slice OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.02.15 23:01:00 - [18] Convo me when you get online Trenn, we'll sort it out.
T'Renn Crimson Squall	Posted - 2007.02.15 23:05:00 - [19] Originally by: Dr Slice Convo me when you get online Trenn, we'll sort it out. Will do, but it'll be a few hours. Thanks, Slice. -- Wanna be a low-sec scumbag?
Mr Jay Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.02.15 23:07:00 - [20] Indeed, if Renn had been a carebear who paid the ransom and then got popped, that carebear would've told his corp. His corp would tell their friends. Their friends would tell their friends and all of a sudden, you've got a lot of carebears not paying ransoms. Don't make the rest of us look bad. I want a forum post from SNOWY, apologising to Renn. Absolute Evil pwned my sig =(
Scoundrelus's Alt	Posted - 2007.02.15 23:22:00 - [21] Originally by: T'Renn Originally by: Scoundrelus's Alt You suck a lot of Octobersnow dang don't you. Dude...just GTFO with that. Samirol was just stating his opinion - there's no need to flame him for his relationship with SNOWY. Really - give it a rest. I don't care about BFLT / SNOWY politics one bit. I don't care about their politics either, I just don't like Samirol and feel that I should express myself.
Samirol Blood Sweat and Tears	Posted - 2007.02.15 23:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Scoundrelus's Alt Originally by: T'Renn Originally by: Scoundrelus's Alt You suck a lot of Octobersnow dang don't you. Dude...just GTFO with that. Samirol was just stating his opinion - there's no need to flame him for his relationship with SNOWY. Really - give it a rest. I don't care about BFLT / SNOWY politics one bit. I don't care about their politics either, I just don't like Samirol and feel that I should express myself. unfortunately, being a smacktard is the only way you can seem to express yourself. Listen to Dev Radio!
Scoundrelus's Alt	Posted - 2007.02.15 23:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Samirol Originally by: Scoundrelus's Alt Originally by: T'Renn Originally by: Scoundrelus's Alt You suck a lot of Octobersnow dang don't you. Dude...just GTFO with that. Samirol was just stating his opinion - there's no need to flame him for his relationship with SNOWY. Really - give it a rest. I don't care about BFLT / SNOWY politics one bit. I don't care about their politics either, I just don't like Samirol and feel that I should express myself. unfortunately, being a smacktard is the only way you can seem to express yourself. And I do it quite well.
Gamble Dakota Immortalis Silens Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.15 23:54:00 - [24] He did the right thing, it's Snowy's perogotive to take care of this BEFORE there's a forum post about it. Tiller clearly didn't care that the ransom was payed, and T'Renn made the topic as a result. Just business etc, etc. ------------------------------------------------- Originally by: "Nir" There is no place for morality in EVE. I find the correct answer is rarely the truthful one.
Lanfear's Bane Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:06:00 - [25] Originally by: Everyone Rabble Rabble Rabble Sounds atypical of tiller. Maybe you should drop him an EVEmail. Then again, I know that tiller plays EVE by his rules, not everyone elses, something I strongly approve of. The only reason I don't ransom and then kill / pod is that as a group our corp would suffer as a consequence and I have the corp's welfare as a whole to consider. The beauty of how you play EVE is that there are no rules. You make your own. And not everyone will like them. I am pretty sure if I ever ended up being ransomed I would not find myself being unscrammed upon payment. I still haven't seen your application BTW. Lanfear's Bane. - - - - - - - - - - - Got Killboard?
DarkElf Caldari Veto. Academy	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:16:00 - [26] not honouring ransoms is bad for business. snowy knows this only too well. convo them and they will sort it out. yeah seems like a breakdown in communication to me. it does happen. they seem liek a good bunch of guys to me DE
LadyAmarus	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:19:00 - [27] hmmmz as far as I know , a honoured ransom will make the next time the dude gets caught pay up even faster :p. and damn lanfear I still need to ransom you back 3 mill from when you ransommed me when i was 2 month old :p
Samirol Blood Sweat and Tears	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:31:00 - [28] Originally by: DarkElf not honouring ransoms is bad for business. snowy knows this only too well. convo them and they will sort it out. yeah seems like a breakdown in communication to me. it does happen. they seem liek a good bunch of guys to me DE yeah, i believe its being taken care of now soon Listen to Dev Radio!
Dr Slice OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:37:00 - [29] I held off from posting further on this matter until I obtained all the details since I was not there when it happened. There was certainly a misunderstanding and I appreciate Trenn's patience and unwillingness to smack about the incident. Even though we are hated by many, we do honor ransoms and would not dishonor them. We attempt to ransom ships and pods as frequently as possible, and blatantly dishonoring them would affect our income as well as the income of fellow Pirate Corps. My apologies for the confusion and misunderstanding. I still have to speak with Trenn and he will be reimbursed his ISK.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:43:00 - [30] Originally by: T'Renn So trying to get an arazu to me with my hauler alt and came to the snowy camp in hag. Asked for ransom, Tiller said 100m. I paid. I uncloaked, they popped me anyway. Later, Tiller said "oh, you paid." And then "You paid too late." Any excuse will do, eh guys? Told you I was a hauler alt. Oh well. You should have honored the ransom. I'm not a whining carebear freaking out about a 200m+ loss, just saying what you do is bad for business for the rest of us. Jesus, what little respect Snowy did have, in my view, just went out the window. I'm still waiting by-the-by for the uber Snowy fleet of doom to come silence me. -Karlemgne
Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:46:00 - [31] Originally by: Samirol Originally by: T'Renn Originally by: Samirol Did you tell what happened directly to ginger and try to get it resolved before going to the forums for help? I'm not going to feel bad about coming to the forums about it. I mail Ginger for what - to get smacked? They gave a ransom amount, I paid, they popped my ship anyway when I uncloaked off the gate. All well and good and fair, but you gotta repay that ransom if you don't want a forum post about it. That's just the way it is. If they repay the ransom, I'll make this post go away. Until that happens they don't honor ransoms so it should be here. IMO, going to the forums whining about a broken ransom should be what you do if the CEO says "**** off" and doesnt repay it. Whining on the forums should be a last resort, not your first impulse IMHO. Dude, OBVIOUSLLY, the OP asked for the money back, in local, I'm sure. Snowy turned her down and just said, "too late." This post should be here. A pirate not honoring their ransoms hurts everyone of us in the profession, and is, in any case, demonstrative of a total lack of class on the part of October Snow. -Karlemgne
Samirol Blood Sweat and Tears	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:46:00 - [32] Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: T'Renn So trying to get an arazu to me with my hauler alt and came to the snowy camp in hag. Asked for ransom, Tiller said 100m. I paid. I uncloaked, they popped me anyway. Later, Tiller said "oh, you paid." And then "You paid too late." Any excuse will do, eh guys? Told you I was a hauler alt. Oh well. You should have honored the ransom. I'm not a whining carebear freaking out about a 200m+ loss, just saying what you do is bad for business for the rest of us. Jesus, what little respect Snowy did have, in my view, just went out the window. I'm still waiting by-the-by for the uber Snowy fleet of doom to come silence me. -Karlemgne if you read the thread, it was probably a communications breakdown and the post above you says that slice is going to talk to renn and give him back the money. Listen to Dev Radio!
Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:48:00 - [33] Originally by: Samirol Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: T'Renn So trying to get an arazu to me with my hauler alt and came to the snowy camp in hag. Asked for ransom, Tiller said 100m. I paid. I uncloaked, they popped me anyway. Later, Tiller said "oh, you paid." And then "You paid too late." Any excuse will do, eh guys? Told you I was a hauler alt. Oh well. You should have honored the ransom. I'm not a whining carebear freaking out about a 200m+ loss, just saying what you do is bad for business for the rest of us. Jesus, what little respect Snowy did have, in my view, just went out the window. I'm still waiting by-the-by for the uber Snowy fleet of doom to come silence me. -Karlemgne if you read the thread, it was probably a communications breakdown and the post above you says that slice is going to talk to renn and give him back the money. Sure, all well and good that Dr. Slice is "doing" something about it. I am sure, that this forum post is the source of Snowy's new found remorse. -Karlemgne
T'Renn Crimson Squall	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:07:00 - [34] Actually to be fair to Karl I should point out that I didn't explicitly ask for the ransom to be returned to me after my ship had been destroyed. I can post the log from local if this needs more clarification, but the crux of what happened was that I jumped into Hag, saw the SNOWY camp, asked for a ransom. I was met with an amount. I clarified the amount and paid. Almost immediately after paying my ship was destroyed. Tiller said "you paid too late. Pod can go free." I said that I didn't care about the pod. Obviously the ransom was for the ship I was flying. I was then podded before I could expressly ask for a refund, but this is somewhat moot as it is really the ransomer's responsibility to refund ransoms in those situations, not the ransomees to beg for their ISK back. I am not here to make anyone's e-peen bigger by groveling. Like I said earlier in this thread -- honoring ransoms is a boolean thing -- true or false. It's also something I take very seriously and is rule #2 of my corp. I believe that ultimately this is in fact just a communication snafu and that when I get the chance to log back in and talk to Slice et al. everything will be straightened out. I have no reason to believe that this won't be dealt with fairly. Once this has been straightened out I will edit the thread, since the topic will no longer be considered truth. Hope this helps clear things up. -- Wanna be a low-sec scumbag?
Dark Vishnu RED SQUAD Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:33:00 - [35] well paying ransoms at gate camps is very risky cause when you paid and cload 2 or 3 seconds after it, the person who you paid didnt saw it already. some people ask for ransom and then try to escape. the pirate has a very small time window to react. yours is much bigger. maybe next time you say that you have paid or something like this, the most people dont do it but they should.
T'Renn Crimson Squall	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:35:00 - [36] Originally by: Lanfear's Bane I still haven't seen your application BTW. That's funny because I'm still waiting for yours. -- Wanna be a low-sec scumbag?
Samirol Blood Sweat and Tears	Posted - 2007.02.16 02:00:00 - [37] glad to hear it got taken care of. I think Karl was hoping that snowy didnt live by their word... Listen to Dev Radio!
tiller OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.02.16 06:08:00 - [38] Edited by: tiller on 16/02/2007 06:21:23 Hey Not sure whats been going on here but I know the incident. You jumped hauler in and sat cloaked... now we NEVER ransom haulers, it's the first rule of gate camping but just for a laugh I shouted 100m in local knowing that no nub in a iteron 3 or whatever is gonna pay that. Next thing I know you decloak and of course insta die.... freeing the captive arazu you so cruely had captive in your cargo. Looking at my wallet I then see the 100m was sent (I was not even monitoring it for a payment) You the proceeded to say 'pod me as well I don't care' and you were podded. My initial feeling on this ransom payment and killing mistake was, well, tough luck. A gate camp is not some signed contract where by if a mistake is made you can goto some commission of 'fair piracy' to put right the mistake, it's just the way it goes. To be fair this is only the second mistake I've seen on a SNOWY camp.. and only because for a laugh I shouted 100m in local. Thats not a bad record for a large group of trigger happy drunk guys sitting on a gate for weeks on end. :-)) (the only previous error I've seen is someone who payed 50m for their pod but then warped back on zero and met a volley of smartbombs from our bomber ship, then again the ransom is only to warp away not warp back I guess) I must say I'm kind of annoyed if someone has refunded you from a simple ransom error.. I mean, we're evil blood sucking nub pirates, not running for a nobel peace prize. The above is my honest view on the incident, and as always, I dont' give a dam what anyone else thinks.
T'Renn Crimson Squall	Posted - 2007.02.16 09:51:00 - [39] Okay so let me get this straight - it'd have been okay with you had the ransom never been repayed? Also - the incident didn't quite go as you say, but I refuse to post the log in here - we're adults and I'm not interested in pointing fingers. How was I supposed to know you guys never ransom haulers? You gave me an amount after I asked. I paid you, said I paid you, and died anyway. I don't know SNOWY's "hauler ransom policy," but common freaking decency dictates that you repay the ransom. It's not rocket science, and quite frankly you're smart enough to know better. Also, I told you I was a hauler alt of a pirate and that should have let you know that I was serious about paying, especially since I inquired about a ransom in the first place. Of course, you might not have been paying a lot of attention to what I was saying to you, since you were pretty busy smacking it up. I wanted to be cool about all this and the matter was as good as dead but then you had to bust in here all indignant and self-righteous. I know that you are trying to play up to some forum warrior hype crap here, but to be honest I have always been respectful to you and spoke with you how men are supposed to speak with each other. There's no need for you to come off like a butthole here. I was wronged, I was repayed, and I edited the thread with hopes of it fading into obscurity, but yet here we are again. I was cool with the whole thing and intent on just moving on with life but you just couldn't resist saying "you shouldn't have been repayed" which is how flamewars start. -- Wanna be a low-sec scumbag?
tiller OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.02.16 10:06:00 - [40] Edited by: tiller on 16/02/2007 10:02:23 Originally by: T'Renn I was cool with the whole thing and intent on just moving on with life but you just couldn't resist saying "you shouldn't have been repayed" which is how flamewars start. Well, I speak my mind... what I say here I mean. I don't agree with the repaying of people I've taken the trouble to blow up by mistake.

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