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Taran Summers The Merovingians	Posted - 2007.02.15 20:53:00 - [1] My only comment on the impending speed nerf is this. Apollo 10 has the highest record for speed attained by a manned vehicle, 11.08 km/s. Almost every ship, fitted with MWD and overdrives and nanofiber, etc, can't keep up with one of our 1960's era Apollo modules. Man, the fall caused tech to backslide more than we thought.
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.15 20:56:00 - [2] Originally by: Taran Summers My only comment on the impending speed nerf is this. Apollo 10 has the highest record for speed attained by a manned vehicle, 11.08 km/s. Almost every ship, fitted with MWD and overdrives and nanofiber, etc, can't keep up with one of our 1960's era Apollo modules. Man, the fall caused tech to backslide more than we thought. Space also isn't filled with water. EVE != Real Life "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Liu Kaskakka PAK	Posted - 2007.02.15 20:57:00 - [3] Originally by: Taran Summers My only comment on the impending speed nerf is this. Apollo 10 has the highest record for speed attained by a manned vehicle, 11.08 km/s. Almost every ship, fitted with MWD and overdrives and nanofiber, etc, can't keep up with one of our 1960's era Apollo modules. Man, the fall caused tech to backslide more than we thought. Arguing space game physics on RL grounds = bad. King Liu is RIGHT!!
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:01:00 - [4] Originally by: Taran Summers My only comment on the impending speed nerf is this. Apollo 10 has the highest record for speed attained by a manned vehicle, 11.08 km/s. Almost every ship, fitted with MWD and overdrives and nanofiber, etc, can't keep up with one of our 1960's era Apollo modules. Man, the fall caused tech to backslide more than we thought. the apollo 10 wasn't a kilometer long. Ships can beat this speed. And ya, what my esteemed corpmate said, eve isn't RL
Taran Summers The Merovingians	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:03:00 - [5] I reject your reality and substitute my own
Kermitbuns Minmatar RennTech The Guardian Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:05:00 - [6] Originally by: Taran Summers I reject your reality and substitute my own you thief! Stealing that phrase from Mythbusters! I'm going to call Adam on you!
Taran Summers The Merovingians	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:16:00 - [7] Edited by: Taran Summers on 15/02/2007 21:12:55 Alas, he stole it from the movie the Dungeonmaster. So much like robbing a pirate. I have no moral qualms on this one
Valiant Brightstar	Posted - 2007.02.15 21:43:00 - [8] Look. Like I said in corp chat last night - fit Flux Capacitor II and all your problems are solved. /locked.
Mr M	Posted - 2007.02.15 22:22:00 - [9] On the other hand that's only the speed during docking, fighting an so on. During travel most ships do more than 1 AU/s wich is a couple of hundred times the speed of light, and therefor beats everything known to mankind. Don't know what speed the ships reach when using jump gates but it seems to be even faster. EVEgeek \| EVE Tribune
Valeo Galaem InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.02.15 22:34:00 - [10] The Apollo 10 module also couldn't maneuver around, "stop" on a dime (for a million ton space craft at least), or have to track close targets. It achieved those speeds to make the transfer between the Earth and the Moon in a realistic amount of time and because its simple mechanics to fly that far in a straight line in space. ..kinda like how we get to warp between celestial objects, but at 3 AU/s (450,000,000 km/s), a tad bit faster than Apollo 10's meager 10 km/s. OMG, nerf warp! Its too fast!! Thar be Pirates You are not authorised to hack into CONCORD's mainframe Your Wallet has been emptied! CONCORD Encryption Methods

Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.15 22:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Taran Summers My only comment on the impending speed nerf is this. Apollo 10 has the highest record for speed attained by a manned vehicle, 11.08 km/s. Almost every ship, fitted with MWD and overdrives and nanofiber, etc, can't keep up with one of our 1960's era Apollo modules. Man, the fall caused tech to backslide more than we thought. The Horribly Flawed Argument Alarm is not that unfunny and I'm going to go do a big flashing GIF image to go with it, so just wait here until I get back. ---------- IBTL \o/ Fix the ******* map! Privateers FTW
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.02.15 22:45:00 - [12] The point is we should not have a BS that has a Mass of millions of KGs (in the Armor alone) that can move 10 times faster then a ship the size of one of its escape pods. RL is not EVE EVE is not RL ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
Taran Summers The Merovingians	Posted - 2007.02.15 23:48:00 - [13] Any type of travel concerning extreme velocity has to do with relativistic reference frames. Even Eve's as shown by this snippet form their tech notes. So what is the elusive answer to FTL travel? It was found through advanced research in the field of quantum electrodynamics. By creating depleted vacuum, that is, vacuum as found in space but completely stripped of all energy, and then expanding this depleted vacuum to envelop a ship, the ship is capable of moving faster than light through this bubble of depleted vacuum. A depleted vacuum bubble is more than frictionless û it is so anti-friction that things (including light) actually move faster in it than they would in complete vacuum. Given that note we see they're making a local condition that isolates the ship from relative measurement to any quanta by pinching off the ship and creating an isolated reference frame within which the ship isn't actually moving, I.E. Warp drive. Which moves out out of standard newtonian force action-reaction equations. I.E F=k((d(mv))/dt). And into the interesting but unproven Van Den Broeck formula's land ds^2=-dt^2+B2(rs) [(dx-vsf(rs)dt)^2 +dy^2+dz^2] . Which once the field is established, using even the small amounts of energy EvE's MWD seems to consume, should give us much higher velocities than those observed. Especially given that we know that these ships don't really use a reaction drive system (they look like it, but have no fuel to track) and have to use a magnetic or gravitic propulsion method for sublight speeds. Throwing out the action-reaction equations also makes the mass of the ship irrelevant for propulsion purposes, and the use of the Van Den Broeck formula isolates off all the mass anyway, so yes, a battleship could accelerate as fast as its escape pod. Yes. Its not real life (tell that to some of the Alliances, they'll wardec you fro liez and rumorzez), but its certainly fun to try to get the math to fit.
Paddlefoot Aeon Neogen Industries Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:05:00 - [14] Edited by: Paddlefoot Aeon on 16/02/2007 01:02:59 Guys.... the issue with the Nano-ships is not relative speed... its lack of balance. People wouldn't complain if there was a reasonable way to stop a pilot using this type of setup. For example, me and a corp mate were testing my setup when we were jumped by a nano-phoon. After the nano phoon approached from 150km in less than 10 seconds, he proceeded to orbit my mate's raven at 18-20km... while NOSing and scrambling. My alt was in a tackler... and was unable to keep the Nano-phoon in range of a web. Then, this nano-phoon had 2 buddies jump in to system and warp to us, and join the battle. We lost 2 out of 3 ships, they lost none. I have no problem with losing ships... its part of EVE. However.... when a BATTLESHIP can act as a tackler, when an INTERCEPTOR cannot intercept it, there is somethign unbalanced, broken, and unfair. I'm not saying we have to Nerf nano-ships, but there needs to be a balance to them, some way to slow them down. There is no way a battleship, with all its size, mass and inertia, should be able to reach speeds where a smaller, lighter and more manuverable ship cannot catch up. The best part about EVE is that even a noob can kill a 3 year old player if the 2 ships are set up correctly... there is no "I Win" setup. The Nano-ship is breaking this. I fit nanos-stab when I travel long distances... but I don't plan to fight or hurt anyone else. When I go into combat and get warp scrambled, the only way I'm leaving is if the tackler goes pop. This is the way combat was intended to be in EVE, and you will see people begining to leave if this situtation is not corrected. -----------------------------------------------
Taran Summers The Merovingians	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:12:00 - [15] I agree with that. I'd prefer that they nerf the MWD's somehow though, and not the overdrives and crap. I've got a sweet transport that I've got rigged and factioned out the wazoo so it goes faster than a shuttle with 1500m3 of cargo for my boutique, high end cargo, trading work The Merovingians ALWAYS get the last word.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Imperial Warehousing Industries	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:14:00 - [16] Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon Edited by: Paddlefoot Aeon on 16/02/2007 01:02:59 Guys.... the issue with the Nano-ships is not relative speed... its lack of balance. People wouldn't complain if there was a reasonable way to stop a pilot using this type of setup. Its called a Huginn..
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:19:00 - [17] Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 16/02/2007 01:16:00 Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Its called a Huginn.. Huginn's can't stop them. NanoBS have too much inertia and they glide right out of web range with very little diminished velocity. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Imperial Warehousing Industries	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:22:00 - [18] Nano Huginn.. Orbit and he will eventually stop..
Rann Antares omen. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:23:00 - [19] One can absolutely not compare the real world physics of space travel with the game of EVE. EVE is not a space combat simulator, it's a space-based role playing game. I don't think it would be as fun if PVP was based on real world physics; we'd all be far too busy trying to control our ships to fight each other. As far as a "flight model," I ain't even goin' there. I don't have the time or energy to point out the discrepancies between the game and astrophysics. I'll leave that to a Ph.D. Cheers!
Sophia Regatis Caldari The Reaper Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:39:00 - [20] Edited by: Sophia Regatis on 16/02/2007 01:37:35 Well, EVE is not real life. Like any game it has to use a certain amount of license to be playable. I wouldn't like to fly between stargates at 10 km s^-1 and I'm sure you wouldn't either. EDIT: Alright there was 5 posts in the time it took me to write this reply Like the last poster, I have issues with the balance of things when an interceptor can be outrun by a battleship, when a battleship can be used as a tackler. I remember on here there used to be the space speed records. The fastest ship in the game (fitted purely for straight-line speed) was a Heavy Assault Cruiser. Surely the fastest ship should be those that are built to intercept (ie interceptors and interdictors)? This is where my issues lie. Not with comparisons to real life. I am however familiar with a couple of very interesting theories in real life that remain unproven, yet would render objects outside the newtonian action-rection laws of physics, and even more importantly outside einstein's laws of relativity. That would, as correctly stated, make mass completely irrelevant as far as warp and 'microwarp' is concerned. However - raise your glasses to artistic license!!

Barthezz Paradox v2.0 Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:52:00 - [21] Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon For example, me and a corp mate were testing my setup when we were jumped by a nano-phoon. After the nano phoon approached from 150km in less than 10 seconds, he proceeded to orbit my mate's raven at 18-20km... while NOSing and scrambling. My alt was in a tackler... and was unable to keep the Nano-phoon in range of a web. You where 138km away and it took me 16s to get to you, I'm fast but not 15km/s fast. There are interceptors which can keep up with me, but they would require the same amount of investment as me. This means for an interceptor with a Gist-A Type 1MN MWD, domination nano's in low (or T2), and a low-grade (or high grade) snake set + various other implants to improve speed (my clone is worth a small 700-800m) and finally 2x 15% mwd speed rigs. That interceptor would cost a fortune, but it would keep up with me, until it got nos'd Thing is, as I said in local, yes these BS need (and will get) a nerf, but until then I'll fly it as its a LOT of fun to play with. Anyways I'm not allowed to copy links or killmails, but only a few days ago we killed a nano-domi, he definitly did not have the inertia to get out of my rapiers webs. Well, he did try, but using mwd on my rapier to keep up with him enough did wonders and he soon slowed down . Once his speed was gone, it didnt take long for him to die as well. (we're talking about seconds) The week before that, I myself got killed by a Huginn (and friends), again once speed was gone, seconds later I was gone. So its not impossible, but at this moment for the 'average jo' too hard, which is the biggest reason for the nerf. Anyways, as said until then I'd suggest keeping a good eye on local and NOT let me scan all your belts and then 'for fun' check a planet and find you there playing with your corp mates.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:58:00 - [22] Originally by: Barthezz Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon For example, me and a corp mate were testing my setup when we were jumped by a nano-phoon. After the nano phoon approached from 150km in less than 10 seconds, he proceeded to orbit my mate's raven at 18-20km... while NOSing and scrambling. My alt was in a tackler... and was unable to keep the Nano-phoon in range of a web. You where 138km away and it took me 16s to get to you, I'm fast but not 15km/s fast. There are interceptors which can keep up with me, but they would require the same amount of investment as me. This means for an interceptor with a Gist-A Type 1MN MWD, domination nano's in low (or T2), and a low-grade (or high grade) snake set + various other implants to improve speed (my clone is worth a small 700-800m) and finally 2x 15% mwd speed rigs. That interceptor would cost a fortune, but it would keep up with me, until it got nos'd Thing is, as I said in local, yes these BS need (and will get) a nerf, but until then I'll fly it as its a LOT of fun to play with. Anyways I'm not allowed to copy links or killmails, but only a few days ago we killed a nano-domi, he definitly did not have the inertia to get out of my rapiers webs. Well, he did try, but using mwd on my rapier to keep up with him enough did wonders and he soon slowed down . Once his speed was gone, it didnt take long for him to die as well. (we're talking about seconds) The week before that, I myself got killed by a Huginn (and friends), again once speed was gone, seconds later I was gone. So its not impossible, but at this moment for the 'average jo' too hard, which is the biggest reason for the nerf. Anyways, as said until then I'd suggest keeping a good eye on local and NOT let me scan all your belts and then 'for fun' check a planet and find you there playing with your corp mates. Not that any of that really matters- they're nerfing it now, you know -------- Originally by: Constantine Arcanum most problems can be solved with chloroform.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.02.16 02:24:00 - [23] If you were dragging a subspace anchor conveniently called a 'Warp Core', you wouldn't move so readily either. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Got Alliance? Contact me ingame for alliance creation services.
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.16 02:32:00 - [24] Originally by: Thor Xian If you were dragging a subspace anchor conveniently called a 'Warp Core', you wouldn't move so readily either. Well you have to be doing something like that since to go FTL without messing with relativity you need some absolute frame of reference.
Paddlefoot Aeon Neogen Industries Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2007.02.16 06:24:00 - [25] Originally by: Barthezz Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon For example, me and a corp mate were testing my setup when we were jumped by a nano-phoon. After the nano phoon approached from 150km in less than 10 seconds, he proceeded to orbit my mate's raven at 18-20km... while NOSing and scrambling. My alt was in a tackler... and was unable to keep the Nano-phoon in range of a web. You where 138km away and it took me 16s to get to you, I'm fast but not 15km/s fast. There are interceptors which can keep up with me, but they would require the same amount of investment as me. This means for an interceptor with a Gist-A Type 1MN MWD, domination nano's in low (or T2), and a low-grade (or high grade) snake set + various other implants to improve speed (my clone is worth a small 700-800m) and finally 2x 15% mwd speed rigs. That interceptor would cost a fortune, but it would keep up with me, until it got nos'd Thing is, as I said in local, yes these BS need (and will get) a nerf, but until then I'll fly it as its a LOT of fun to play with. Anyways I'm not allowed to copy links or killmails, but only a few days ago we killed a nano-domi, he definitly did not have the inertia to get out of my rapiers webs. Well, he did try, but using mwd on my rapier to keep up with him enough did wonders and he soon slowed down . Once his speed was gone, it didnt take long for him to die as well. (we're talking about seconds) The week before that, I myself got killed by a Huginn (and friends), again once speed was gone, seconds later I was gone. So its not impossible, but at this moment for the 'average jo' too hard, which is the biggest reason for the nerf. Anyways, as said until then I'd suggest keeping a good eye on local and NOT let me scan all your belts and then 'for fun' check a planet and find you there playing with your corp mates. Dude.... I'm not complaining about the kill.... we were testing PvP setups, and we see enough solo gankers fly through that we were thinking that... if you warped to us, it would be kinda fun to get a kill. Your mates stayed out of system long enough not to get us worried, and we were not expecting a tackling BS. But you guys executed well and deserved the kill. I'm not complaining about the loss, which stings but is not crippling by any means. I'm all for a ship that can go relatively fast in a straight line, but a massive BS that can orbit, at 6,600 m/s is a bit much if you ask me. I wonder how they will nerf the Nano ships... and what the next flavour of the month will be? -----------------------------------------------
Zixxa	Posted - 2007.02.16 06:58:00 - [26] OMG! MWD nerf is coming! CCP devs, return back to the Earth and stop fixing what is not broken. Just fix snake set. Or it is not appropriate for you? --------------------------------- Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS. R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
Barthezz Paradox v2.0 Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.02.16 16:28:00 - [27] Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon I wonder how they will nerf the Nano ships... and what the next flavour of the month will be? The thing I'm wondering is, will they just nerf nano-bs -or- will all nano-ships or even all mwd ships get nerfed? Will flying an interceptor or interdictor be completely impossible soon? Lets not start about the vagabond, the only thing that ship has going for it is the speed it has. Anyways I'm not worried, I've got my close-range gank/tank Tempest already in my hanger which I use for larger gangs / camps. It has a LOT more firepower and a LOT more tankpower. I personally think that logistics will get fixed soon (tm) and once that happens, that will be the new 'thing of the month' in small gangs.
Zixxa	Posted - 2007.02.16 16:34:00 - [28] As usually, our dear devs will fix all to the death. MWD will be in the nearest future looks like caldari's ECM. But certainly CCP will not fix snake set. Guess why? --------------------------------- Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS. R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
Blutreiter	Posted - 2007.02.17 00:57:00 - [29] Edited by: Blutreiter on 17/02/2007 00:55:16 Do you want a really really easy way to web someone outside of 10 km? or even 15 km for that matter? Use a Webber Drone. (omg ew-drone!) Because if you'd have taken the time to look at it, it's activation range is as long as a standard webber, plus the fact that those drones are very agile and fly quite fast. They just need to get lucky one single time and then you can watch your target get vewy vewy sloooo.... Of course... who in their right mind would ever consider using EW Drones? Hehe... If in doubt, fit a Drone Navigation Computer. Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sht up*


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