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Destiny Dain2
Your Destiny Corporation
55
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Posted - 2016.04.13 15:45:04 -
[1] - Quote
I was making this video Daily Opportunities Now On Singularity and was wondering if a lot of people are going to be SP farming and making up Skill Injectors and if that in turn will drop the current prices of the Injectors? |
Salt Foambreaker
Greedy Pirates
27
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Posted - 2016.04.13 15:58:51 -
[2] - Quote
Shameless video plug? |
Tavari Minrathos
Honey Badgers R US
16
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Posted - 2016.04.13 16:07:03 -
[3] - Quote
Because extractors and PLEX are both bought with RL currency they have a direct correlation in price.
Because you can only make 3 injectors a month with optimal training, selling 3 injectors needs to have profit over the cost of 3 extractors+PLEX.
At current Jita Value of ~645m per injector, ~1b per plex, ~240m per extractor, being a SP farm makes ~245m per month over expenses.
If you have a character that you do not need to train anymore and they already do something in hisec ( and maybe low sec) then yes SP farming is currently profitable. I say hisec because you need at least +4s to get 3 extractors worth of SP a month. (i think, math could be a bit off) |
Destiny Dain2
Your Destiny Corporation
55
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 16:14:22 -
[4] - Quote
Tavari Minrathos wrote:Because extractors and PLEX are both bought with RL currency they have a direct correlation in price.
Because you can only make 3 injectors a month with optimal training, selling 3 injectors needs to have profit over the cost of 3 extractors+PLEX.
At current Jita Value of ~645m per injector, ~1b per plex, ~240m per extractor, being a SP farm makes ~245m per month over expenses.
If you have a character that you do not need to train anymore and they already do something in hisec ( and maybe low sec) then yes SP farming is currently profitable. I say hisec because you need at least +4s to get 3 extractors worth of SP a month. (i think, math could be a bit off)
Thanks for that clear answer for me and everyone to read. I am going to try it on Singularity daily but probably not when it hits TQ unless I'm bored or it falls in line with what I happen to be doing. |
Tavari Minrathos
Honey Badgers R US
16
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Posted - 2016.04.13 16:24:52 -
[5] - Quote
Destiny Dain2 wrote:Tavari Minrathos wrote:Because extractors and PLEX are both bought with RL currency they have a direct correlation in price.
Because you can only make 3 injectors a month with optimal training, selling 3 injectors needs to have profit over the cost of 3 extractors+PLEX.
At current Jita Value of ~645m per injector, ~1b per plex, ~240m per extractor, being a SP farm makes ~245m per month over expenses.
If you have a character that you do not need to train anymore and they already do something in hisec ( and maybe low sec) then yes SP farming is currently profitable. I say hisec because you need at least +4s to get 3 extractors worth of SP a month. (i think, math could be a bit off) Thanks for that clear answer for me and everyone to read. I am going to try it on Singularity daily but probably not when it hits TQ unless I'm bored or it falls in line with what I happen to be doing.
Oh, you meant from the 10k sp a day thing. That might push SP farming into a 4th extractor (~300k SP a month at current floated value) meaning an passive SP farm+daily activity could make ~650m a month.
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Destiny Dain2
Your Destiny Corporation
55
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Posted - 2016.04.13 17:00:04 -
[6] - Quote
This is two things now on SP farming and with the extra injectors hitting the market it will drive prices down. Then again once prices go down and people buy them out, it should just level out the prices again.
I guess we will have to wait and see what happens. |
Grauth Thorner
Vicious Trading Company
490
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 17:26:40 -
[7] - Quote
Tavari Minrathos wrote:Because extractors and PLEX are both bought with RL currency they have a direct correlation in price.
Because you can only make 3 injectors a month with optimal training, selling 3 injectors needs to have profit over the cost of 3 extractors+PLEX.
At current Jita Value of ~645m per injector, ~1b per plex, ~240m per extractor, being a SP farm makes ~245m per month over expenses.
If you have a character that you do not need to train anymore and they already do something in hisec ( and maybe low sec) then yes SP farming is currently profitable. I say hisec because you need at least +4s to get 3 extractors worth of SP a month. (i think, math could be a bit off)
The win of injectors over plex is that injectors are instant, which is probably what keeps them profitable, even though you won't get actual gametime in return for injectors.
View real-time damage statistics in-game
>EVE Live DPS Graph application forum thread
>iciclesoft.com
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Tristan Agion
Viziam
Amarr Empire
132
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 17:28:49 -
[8] - Quote
With +5 implants you can extract about 4 injectors per month even without the daily NPC kill. The NPC kills give you a bit more than half (namely 3/5th) of an extra skill injector optimally. Whether this bonus is worth the hassle in practice for SP farmers I do not know. I guess the best way would be to park the SP cow in a belt in high sec in say a Rifter: log in, shoot rat, log off safely - all while remaining undocked in space. You can reload (cheap) ammo when you occasionally dock the SP cow in a station for milking... |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
1036
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Posted - 2016.04.13 18:34:53 -
[9] - Quote
Tristan Agion wrote:With +5 implants you can extract about 4 injectors per month even without the daily NPC kill. The NPC kills give you a bit more than half (namely 3/5th) of an extra skill injector optimally. Whether this bonus is worth the hassle in practice for SP farmers I do not know. I guess the best way would be to park the SP cow in a belt in high sec in say a Rifter: log in, shoot rat, log off safely - all while remaining undocked in space. You can reload (cheap) ammo when you occasionally dock the SP cow in a station for milking...
Use lasers with t1 ammo so you do not have to reload.
Also, there is a 5 minute timer gained after shooting or being targeted by an npc, so you would have to wait for that to expire before logging off safely. |
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
176
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Posted - 2016.04.13 22:19:20 -
[10] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Also, there is a 5 minute timer gained after shooting or being targeted by an npc, so you would have to wait for that to expire before logging off safely.
Non-issue in high sec, nobody is going to waste time probing and suicide ganking some terrible T1 cruiser so you just make a safespot and warp back to it then exit the client, its not like the 5 minutes in space matters if you're not in something expensive or in null |
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Sustrai Aditua
Irubo Kovu
86
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Posted - 2016.04.14 01:43:18 -
[11] - Quote
mmmm....that'd be a "no".
Do the math. |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
187
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Posted - 2016.04.14 01:49:14 -
[12] - Quote
.... |
Aiwha
Infinite Point
Violence of Action.
1105
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Posted - 2016.04.14 02:14:32 -
[13] - Quote
Tavari Minrathos wrote:Because extractors and PLEX are both bought with RL currency they have a direct correlation in price.
Because you can only make 3 injectors a month with optimal training, selling 3 injectors needs to have profit over the cost of 3 extractors+PLEX.
At current Jita Value of ~645m per injector, ~1b per plex, ~240m per extractor, being a SP farm makes ~245m per month over expenses.
If you have a character that you do not need to train anymore and they already do something in hisec ( and maybe low sec) then yes SP farming is currently profitable. I say hisec because you need at least +4s to get 3 extractors worth of SP a month. (i think, math could be a bit off)
YEah, I have a JF alt account that I'm planning on doing this with. I don't have to pay to maintain the sub, AND I make a little something on the side. Not bad.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
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Hawke Frost
21
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Posted - 2016.04.14 11:03:38 -
[14] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Tavari Minrathos wrote:Because extractors and PLEX are both bought with RL currency they have a direct correlation in price.
Because you can only make 3 injectors a month with optimal training, selling 3 injectors needs to have profit over the cost of 3 extractors+PLEX.
At current Jita Value of ~645m per injector, ~1b per plex, ~240m per extractor, being a SP farm makes ~245m per month over expenses.
If you have a character that you do not need to train anymore and they already do something in hisec ( and maybe low sec) then yes SP farming is currently profitable. I say hisec because you need at least +4s to get 3 extractors worth of SP a month. (i think, math could be a bit off) YEah, I have a JF alt account that I'm planning on doing this with. I don't have to pay to maintain the sub, AND I make a little something on the side. Not bad.
The second more people start to catch up on that the more competition you'll get which will affect the price and thus profitability. Still, it's worth it for accounts that don't need training anymore. I doubt CCP envisioned this, they're not very good at predicting the outcome of their choices. |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
1744
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Posted - 2016.04.14 11:21:48 -
[15] - Quote
Hawke Frost wrote:Aiwha wrote:Tavari Minrathos wrote:Because extractors and PLEX are both bought with RL currency they have a direct correlation in price.
Because you can only make 3 injectors a month with optimal training, selling 3 injectors needs to have profit over the cost of 3 extractors+PLEX.
At current Jita Value of ~645m per injector, ~1b per plex, ~240m per extractor, being a SP farm makes ~245m per month over expenses.
If you have a character that you do not need to train anymore and they already do something in hisec ( and maybe low sec) then yes SP farming is currently profitable. I say hisec because you need at least +4s to get 3 extractors worth of SP a month. (i think, math could be a bit off) YEah, I have a JF alt account that I'm planning on doing this with. I don't have to pay to maintain the sub, AND I make a little something on the side. Not bad. The second more people start to catch up on that the more competition you'll get which will affect the price and thus profitability. Still, it's worth it for accounts that don't need training anymore. I doubt CCP envisioned this, they're not very good at predicting the outcome of their choices.
You know what is funny?
Players KNEW months before skill injectors came. Many of them already prepared SP farms. Looking at sell orders for skill injectors some farms are pretty huge.
When i was reading about it months ago i was pretty sure this would be gamed right from the start....
And still farming of SP is pretty profitable.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Hawke Frost
21
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Posted - 2016.04.14 11:49:20 -
[16] - Quote
For most people this is "a lot of math" and most people don't have accounts that really don't need training anymore so early adopters with initiative are still doing fine. That is why people rallied for this and that is why this is NOT in the interest of newbies, as if anything ever is. |
Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries
Fortis Et Certus
239
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Posted - 2016.04.14 15:37:37 -
[17] - Quote
if SP farming becomes a very common thing, i belive CCP will try nerf it... either reduce max skillpoints generation pr month.. or manipulate plexprices upwards to make SP farming non profitable.
Either way, CCP has shot themselves in the foot With allowing skillpoint trading.
So in my opinion, for CCP too keep everyone somewhat happy and dont loose subscirption Income, they wont do anything cuz its allready screwed up badly as it is :D |
Warmonger Simon
Trinity Alpha Zero
17
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Posted - 2016.04.14 15:41:38 -
[18] - Quote
Skill point trading was a thing even before and many were making a money on that even before injectors were a thing.
I believe CCP partialy will add these opportunities to keep the same amount of SP in market due to injector diminishing returns. I'd love to see data on how much SP has already been lost in proccess of extracting/injecting. |
Erik Oppenheimer
The Honourable Heimatar Company
0
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Posted - 2016.04.14 16:27:26 -
[19] - Quote
Tristan Agion wrote:With +5 implants you can extract about 4 injectors per month even without the daily NPC kill. The NPC kills give you a bit more than half (namely 3/5th) of an extra skill injector optimally. ...
Please forgive my ignorance - what is "NPC kill" and its relation to farming skillpoints? How do NPC kills give skillpoints? |
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
269
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Posted - 2016.04.14 17:53:10 -
[20] - Quote
Cypherous wrote:Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Also, there is a 5 minute timer gained after shooting or being targeted by an npc, so you would have to wait for that to expire before logging off safely.
Non-issue in high sec, nobody is going to waste time probing and suicide ganking some terrible T1 cruiser so you just make a safespot and warp back to it then exit the client, its not like the 5 minutes in space matters if you're not in something expensive or in null
You're forgetting about +4 or possibly +5 implants in your SP farmer, making it worthwhile for KB padding.
Erik Oppenheimer wrote:Tristan Agion wrote:With +5 implants you can extract about 4 injectors per month even without the daily NPC kill. The NPC kills give you a bit more than half (namely 3/5th) of an extra skill injector optimally. ... Please forgive my ignorance - what is "NPC kill" and its relation to farming skillpoints? How do NPC kills give skillpoints?
They're toying with the idea of giving you 10,000 unallocated SP per day just to log in and kill something. |
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
10158
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Posted - 2016.04.14 18:17:41 -
[21] - Quote
I've been SP farming since I discovered the Character Bazaar eight years ago.
So, no, not a new thing.
Mr Epeen 
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Erik Oppenheimer
The Honourable Heimatar Company
0
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Posted - 2016.04.14 18:21:11 -
[22] - Quote
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
They're toying with the idea of giving you 10,000 unallocated SP per day just to log in and kill something.
Thank you for the explanation. That would be a neat feature. |
Bianca Niam
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
35
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Posted - 2016.04.14 18:59:05 -
[23] - Quote
During the o7 show, I heard "skill point farming" mentioned. The fact that they call it that is a confirmation in my book.
Sad state of affairs. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
17646
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Posted - 2016.04.14 19:11:24 -
[24] - Quote
Hawke Frost wrote:For most people this is "a lot of math" and most people don't have accounts that really don't need training anymore so early adopters with initiative are still doing fine. That is why people rallied for this and that is why this is NOT in the interest of newbies, as if anything ever is.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
499
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Posted - 2016.04.15 00:58:44 -
[25] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Hawke Frost wrote:Aiwha wrote:Tavari Minrathos wrote:Because extractors and PLEX are both bought with RL currency they have a direct correlation in price.
Because you can only make 3 injectors a month with optimal training, selling 3 injectors needs to have profit over the cost of 3 extractors+PLEX.
At current Jita Value of ~645m per injector, ~1b per plex, ~240m per extractor, being a SP farm makes ~245m per month over expenses.
If you have a character that you do not need to train anymore and they already do something in hisec ( and maybe low sec) then yes SP farming is currently profitable. I say hisec because you need at least +4s to get 3 extractors worth of SP a month. (i think, math could be a bit off) YEah, I have a JF alt account that I'm planning on doing this with. I don't have to pay to maintain the sub, AND I make a little something on the side. Not bad. The second more people start to catch up on that the more competition you'll get which will affect the price and thus profitability. Still, it's worth it for accounts that don't need training anymore. I doubt CCP envisioned this, they're not very good at predicting the outcome of their choices. You know what is funny? Players KNEW months before skill injectors came. Many of them already prepared SP farms. Looking at sell orders for skill injectors some farms are pretty huge. When i was reading about it months ago i was pretty sure this would be gamed right from the start.... And still farming of SP is pretty profitable.
It was suggested in the injector threadnought that SP farms would create an avenue for players to passively make ISK and thus pay for their account. What I think has been a surprise is quite how much demand there has been for injectors. I didn't realise the extent of players that would be so desperate for SP that they'd pay more than double the subscription fee to receive instant SP.
There is a lag in supply of around 2 1/2 months for SP farms to start to yield SP, and then another month or so before they break even. As a result I expect a lot of injectors will hit the market in the next month or so as people catch on, and then price should theoretically drop to more normal levels. This period is equivalent to a gold rush particularly with the war fuelling demand and dropping PLEX prices.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Herr Eismann
Lonetrek Blacksoul Federation
The Methodical Alliance
3
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Posted - 2016.04.15 09:06:14 -
[26] - Quote
Salt Foambreaker wrote:Shameless video plug?
Shame is for the weak.
Lt. Col. Ret. Caldari State Protectorate
Deceitful Illumination; Vain Brightness, Keeper of the Dabble Way; Enemy to Enemies of Selves
Bother me //
Buy my book
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Tristan Agion
Viziam
Amarr Empire
134
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Posted - 2016.04.15 12:03:25 -
[27] - Quote
Erik Oppenheimer wrote:Tristan Agion wrote:With +5 implants you can extract about 4 injectors per month even without the daily NPC kill. The NPC kills give you a bit more than half (namely 3/5th) of an extra skill injector optimally. ... Please forgive my ignorance - what is "NPC kill" and its relation to farming skillpoints? How do NPC kills give skillpoints?
NPC="Non-Player Character", though I guess here it would be more a "Non-Player Ship" I'm talking about. Basically NPC here means any (hostile) ship controlled by the game (rather than another person) in space, which you can shoot and kill. CCP is planning to introduce a "daily opportunity", where you can gain 10,000 skill points once every 22 hours if you kill a single NPC entity.
This is being tried out live on the test server at the moment, and likely will come to the main game with the Citadel update end of this month. If it is introduced, then usual skill farming that relies on purely passive SP gain (simply letting time tick) can be upgraded with active SP generation (namely shooting a NPC regularly). Whether SP farmers actually will do that I do not know. It's a question of effort vs. gain, as well as risk vs. reward. My guess is that those who have large farms won't, mostly because it's too much regular effort. Also your SP cow will have +5 implants, and so you would have to babysit this (you don't want some other player killing your SP cow while you hunt for a NPC). Someone who has just one to two SP cows might consider it worthwhile though... |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
29
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Posted - 2016.04.15 13:47:22 -
[28] - Quote
I don't think that SP farming will be a great thing over a longer time. And I'm sure CCP did the math.
1. game time bought with Plex is more expensive then with a subscription. Plex is at 20Gé¼ while subscription is at 12Gé¼/month. And someone has to buy the Plex.
2. Extractors are also bought with RL money and 10 extractors are at 45Gé¼ that's 4,5Gé¼ per extractor.
At the moment you have to sell ~3 extractors to buy a PLEX so this Plex gets CCP 20Gé¼ + 3x4,5Gé¼ = 33,5Gé¼ per month gametime compared to 12Gé¼ for a subscription. I'm really sure that some accountant at CCP made this calculation too.
If many people want to finance their gametime with SP the demand for Plex will raise and because it is limited through RL money the prices will raise to which will make SP farming for Plex a zero-sum-game at best. Raised prices for Plex will make it more attractive to buy it because you get more ISK for the buck.
In the end Plex and SP farming is good for CCP.
Take a look how long you have to work ingame to earn a Plex and how long you have to work RL to pay the subscription. You can make aroung 100M ISK, if you are good, per hour so around 10+hours and if you even need 5 RL hours work to pay for the subscription you need a new job.
MY free time is at premium so I'm certainly not buying gametime with plex. But I like the idea of SP farms because that will lower the price for injectors and THAT's something I like to send my Isk for. |
PAPULA
Black Aces
I N F A M O U S
90
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Posted - 2016.04.15 16:24:03 -
[29] - Quote
There will be no farming.
If you kill any NPC .. that means missions gates incursions .. you get SP's rewarded.
So even if you do a null sec roam and your fleet kills gate NPC's you get your SP reward.
You don't need to farm anything
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Siigari Kitawa
Waking Dreams
407
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Posted - 2016.04.16 06:43:37 -
[30] - Quote
Nevermind
Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it.
Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else.
Ingame channel: PUSHX
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