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Captin ShadowHawk
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.16 18:01:00 -
[1]
Or is it just Sci-Fi fantasy? |

Captin ShadowHawk
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.16 18:01:00 -
[2]
Or is it just Sci-Fi fantasy? |

Jennifer Meek
Gallente Planck Bubble Generation Technologies
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Posted - 2007.02.16 18:07:00 -
[3]
ANYTHING is possible. ---
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Jennifer Meek
Gallente Planck Bubble Generation Technologies
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Posted - 2007.02.16 18:07:00 -
[4]
ANYTHING is possible. ---
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.02.16 18:10:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jennifer Meek ANYTHING is possible.
as long as you come up with some bs rp to support it  Never again are you allowed to whine about not training Combat Skills |

Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.02.16 18:10:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jennifer Meek ANYTHING is possible.
as long as you come up with some bs rp to support it  Never again are you allowed to whine about not training Combat Skills |

Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.02.16 18:34:00 -
[7]
It is possible to travel faster than light globally, but not locally.
That is, for example, if you create a wave of spacetime moving moving extremely fast, you can "ride" it at far faster than the speed of light. However, locally, you might only be moving at 1/10th the speed of light. This works by drastically shrinking the space in front of you and expanding it behind you, so that every meter you move is actually a thousand meters (or whatever) outside of your "bubble."
This is called a "warp bubble", or an Alcubierre drive. It is proven to work within the framework of General Relatively, and should thus also work fine in real life. There are only a few issues:
1) It requires either a graviton emitter or exotic matter. We have neither.
2) It requires a vast amount of energy. Think Death Star vast.
But technically its possible.
EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard |

Anatolius
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.16 19:11:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Anatolius on 16/02/2007 19:07:39
Originally by: Dark Shikari scientific mumbo jumbo
Can't we just invert the flux capacitor to emit a rotating pulse of tachyon waves on alternating frequencies?
It works on Star Trek 
"If God be for us, whom can be against us?" |

GodofHELL
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Posted - 2007.02.16 19:22:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Captin ShadowHawk Or is it just Sci-Fi fantasy?
Sure, but i don't think you or myself will still be among the living to see it happen...
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FooB2
Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.16 19:24:00 -
[10]
Edited by: FooB2 on 16/02/2007 19:20:38 step 1) buy a delorian
step 2) buy a flux capacitor
step 3) GO TO 88 MILES PER HOUR Signature removed, please avoid using images involving relgious symbols like that. -Ivan K |
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St Dragon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.16 19:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dark Shikari It is possible to travel faster than light globally, but not locally.
That is, for example, if you create a wave of spacetime moving moving extremely fast, you can "ride" it at far faster than the speed of light. However, locally, you might only be moving at 1/10th the speed of light. This works by drastically shrinking the space in front of you and expanding it behind you, so that every meter you move is actually a thousand meters (or whatever) outside of your "bubble."
This is called a "warp bubble", or an Alcubierre drive. It is proven to work within the framework of General Relatively, and should thus also work fine in real life. There are only a few issues:
1) It requires either a graviton emitter or exotic matter. We have neither.
2) It requires a vast amount of energy. Think Death Star vast.
But technically its possible.
Actualy you need an antigravity generator to stop you being crushed by teh space bubble. Also you need infinate energy because just to generate that bubble for 1 second you need as much energy as the sun has emmited in its entire existance just to power 1 seconds use of the warp bubble.
And yes this is all true as ive read it before basically a physasist worked out a way to actually do it for real and this is it. -----------------------------------------------
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand |

Araxmas
Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.16 20:37:00 -
[12]
Well apparantly there is no such thing as 100% So therefor you can't be 100% certain that ftl is impossible  --------
Shabba dabba do |

Hypatia Iola
Caldari Warhounds
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Posted - 2007.02.16 20:37:00 -
[13]
does playing this friggin game jump everyone's IQ by 70 or 80 points or something? I'm by no means a stupid person, but sometimes you get out of my intellectual depth and more importantly WHERE ARE YOU GETTING YOUR FACTS!!!!!
aaagh! canb't think, mind shrinking!
KABOOOM!
i'm going back to my Machiavelli, screw you guys and your science. http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/45d4e030z1b06b782/flibbertigibbet2/__sr_/72c2scd.jpg?pf0GO1FB.4ah3.DN |

Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.02.16 20:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Hypatia Iola does playing this friggin game jump everyone's IQ by 70 or 80 points or something? I'm by no means a stupid person, but sometimes you get out of my intellectual depth and more importantly WHERE ARE YOU GETTING YOUR FACTS!!!!!
Wikipedia is your friend 
EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard |

Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.02.16 20:44:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Dark Shikari It is possible to travel faster than light globally, but not locally.
That is, for example, if you create a wave of spacetime moving moving extremely fast, you can "ride" it at far faster than the speed of light. However, locally, you might only be moving at 1/10th the speed of light. This works by drastically shrinking the space in front of you and expanding it behind you, so that every meter you move is actually a thousand meters (or whatever) outside of your "bubble."
This is called a "warp bubble", or an Alcubierre drive. It is proven to work within the framework of General Relatively, and should thus also work fine in real life. There are only a few issues:
1) It requires either a graviton emitter or exotic matter. We have neither.
2) It requires a vast amount of energy. Think Death Star vast.
But technically its possible.
Goddamn it, what pulp fiction science book do you read Shikari. You cannot have any particle move faster than the speed of light. As your velocity increases, you begin to perform more and more like a wave, and waves have no mass. What you are suggesting is some how combining waves and particles into the same matter/energy. That is outright impossible.
As you apply more and more force on your little ship, you hit constant acceleration, and your mass spikes very rapidly to balance the force.
I'd sooner believe that you could somehow shrink the expanded vacuum between two points, thusly negating distance. The only object in the universe capable of taming light is a black hole, and they defy time itself, so good luck putting them to good use.
Like Fry said in Futurama, "I thought you couldn't go faster than light", "Thats true, which is why they increased the speed of light in 2267".
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Nekuva
The SMITE Brotherhood Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.16 21:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Dark Shikari It is possible to travel faster than light globally, but not locally.
That is, for example, if you create a wave of spacetime moving moving extremely fast, you can "ride" it at far faster than the speed of light. However, locally, you might only be moving at 1/10th the speed of light. This works by drastically shrinking the space in front of you and expanding it behind you, so that every meter you move is actually a thousand meters (or whatever) outside of your "bubble."
This is called a "warp bubble", or an Alcubierre drive. It is proven to work within the framework of General Relatively, and should thus also work fine in real life. There are only a few issues:
1) It requires either a graviton emitter or exotic matter. We have neither.
2) It requires a vast amount of energy. Think Death Star vast.
But technically its possible.
Goddamn it, what pulp fiction science book do you read Shikari. You cannot have any particle move faster than the speed of light. As your velocity increases, you begin to perform more and more like a wave, and waves have no mass. What you are suggesting is some how combining waves and particles into the same matter/energy. That is outright impossible.
As you apply more and more force on your little ship, you hit constant acceleration, and your mass spikes very rapidly to balance the force.
I'd sooner believe that you could somehow shrink the expanded vacuum between two points, thusly negating distance. The only object in the universe capable of taming light is a black hole, and they defy time itself, so good luck putting them to good use.
Like Fry said in Futurama, "I thought you couldn't go faster than light", "Thats true, which is why they increased the speed of light in 2267".
Right. You can't move an entity with mass faster than light through space, but the whole idea of warp drive is to make an unequal "pressure" of space so that your local volume (the warp bubble) is propelled to speeds faster than light. Even through you may not be moving at all with respect to the space inside the bubble, the object/ship contained in it travels with the distortion, riding the "space-time wave" in a manner similar to a surfer riding an ocean wave.
Space-time has been shown mathematically to be able to move at speeds exceeding C. Think Inflation Theory.
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Give me ISK.... |

Bosie
Tenacious Warriors Acquiring Technology
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Posted - 2007.02.16 22:28:00 -
[17]
It's fact that we can't go faster than sound and it's fact that you can't get smaller things than atoms.
Science moves on...
"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is ENGLAND."
...Winston |

Benglada
Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.16 22:34:00 -
[18]
If light has no mass how is it that black holes can pull them in? Something needs to have mass to be affected by gravity. therefore, light has mass. ---------------------------
Originally by: Arkanor
0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected]) Sig By Ortos |

Brolly
Caldari The Department of Justice
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Posted - 2007.02.16 22:41:00 -
[19]
pfft, travelling the speed of light is so retro and slow. Speed of thought ftw 
If I had ú1 for every intelligent comment posted in general discussion, I'd be hideously in debt |

Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.02.16 22:44:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 16/02/2007 22:42:52
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Dark Shikari It is possible to travel faster than light globally, but not locally.
That is, for example, if you create a wave of spacetime moving moving extremely fast, you can "ride" it at far faster than the speed of light. However, locally, you might only be moving at 1/10th the speed of light. This works by drastically shrinking the space in front of you and expanding it behind you, so that every meter you move is actually a thousand meters (or whatever) outside of your "bubble."
This is called a "warp bubble", or an Alcubierre drive. It is proven to work within the framework of General Relatively, and should thus also work fine in real life. There are only a few issues:
1) It requires either a graviton emitter or exotic matter. We have neither.
2) It requires a vast amount of energy. Think Death Star vast.
But technically its possible.
Goddamn it, what pulp fiction science book do you read Shikari. You cannot have any particle move faster than the speed of light. As your velocity increases, you begin to perform more and more like a wave, and waves have no mass. What you are suggesting is some how combining waves and particles into the same matter/energy. That is outright impossible.
As you apply more and more force on your little ship, you hit constant acceleration, and your mass spikes very rapidly to balance the force.
I'd sooner believe that you could somehow shrink the expanded vacuum between two points, thusly negating distance. The only object in the universe capable of taming light is a black hole, and they defy time itself, so good luck putting them to good use.
Like Fry said in Futurama, "I thought you couldn't go faster than light", "Thats true, which is why they increased the speed of light in 2267".
You're taking about local velocity, not global velocity. And you are entirely right... about local velocity.
In some cases involving distorted spacetime, an object can move at much less than the speed of light while appearing to move faster than light from an undistorted vantage point.
If I distort space so that the one kilometer in front of me is shrunk to one meter, then my speed is effectively multiplied by 1000 for an undistorted observer during my traversal of that one meter. However, I never actually exceeded the speed of light locally.
EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard |
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Admai Sket
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Posted - 2007.02.16 22:48:00 -
[21]
my head hurts, you know i think my brain is going t....*SPLAT*
I got my sig snipped again. Can someone make me a new one? |

Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.02.16 22:51:00 -
[22]
Some more info, though the article is quite technical: Wikipedia article.
An excerpt:
Originally by: Wikipedia
For those familiar with the effects of special relativity, such as Lorentz contraction and time dilation, the Alcubierre metric has some apparently peculiar aspects. Since a ship at the center of the moving volume of the metric is at rest with respect to locally flat space, there are no relativistic mass increase or time dilation effects. The on-board spaceship clock runs at the same speed as the clock of an external observer, and that observer will detect no increase in the mass of the moving ship, even when it travels at FTL speeds. Moreover, Alcubierre has shown that even when the ship is accelerating, it travels on a free-fall geodesic. In other words, a ship using the warp to accelerate and decelerate is always in free fall, and the crew would experience no accelerational g-forces. Enormous tidal forces would be present near the edges of the flat-space volume because of the large space curvature there, but by suitable specification of the metric, these would be made very small within the volume occupied by the ship.
The original warp drive metric, and simple variants of it, happen to have the ADM form which is often used in discussing the initial value formulation of general relativity. This may explain the widespread misconception that this spacetime is a solution of the field equation of general relativity. Metrics in ADM form are adapted to a certain family of inertial observers, but these observers are not really physically distinguished from other such families. Alcubierre interpreted his "warp bubble" in terms of a contraction of "space" ahead of the bubble and an expansion behind. But this interpretation might be misleading, since the contraction and expansion actually refers to the relative motion of nearby members of the family of ADM observers. Natario has suggested a significantly different kind of warp bubble metric which does not feature expansion.
Whether the Alcubierre metric can be considered physically realistic is questionable. Normally in general relativity, one first specifies a plausible distribution of matter and energy, and then finds the geometry of the spacetime associated with it; but it is also possible to run the Einstein field equations in the other direction, first specifying a metric and then finding the energy-momentum tensor associated with it, and this is what Alcubierre did in building his metric. This practice means that the solution can violate various energy conditions and require exotic matter, and even if exotic matter is possible it also leads to questions about whether it is actually possible to find a way to distribute the matter in an initial spacetime which lacks a "warp bubble" in such a way that the bubble will be created at a later time. Some analyses suggest that it would be impossible to generate the bubble without being able to force the exotic matter to move at locally FTL speeds, which would require the existence of tachyons. Other methods have been suggested which would avoid the problem of tachyonic motion, but would probably generate a naked singularity at the front of the bubble.
EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard |

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.16 22:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dark Shikari It is possible to travel faster than light globally, but not locally.
That is, for example, if you create a wave of spacetime moving moving extremely fast, you can "ride" it at far faster than the speed of light. However, locally, you might only be moving at 1/10th the speed of light. This works by drastically shrinking the space in front of you and expanding it behind you, so that every meter you move is actually a thousand meters (or whatever) outside of your "bubble."
This is called a "warp bubble", or an Alcubierre drive. It is proven to work within the framework of General Relatively, and should thus also work fine in real life. There are only a few issues:
1) It requires either a graviton emitter or exotic matter. We have neither.
2) It requires a vast amount of energy. Think Death Star vast.
But technically its possible.
Heh, I was about to write that, but you beat me to it. Unfortunately, I can't claim it to be because I'm clever though- it's because I just read "Science of the Discworld" by Pratchett, Cohen and Stewart, and that had a good chapter on it 
The one nugget of a fact I can add is that in order to create a "warp bubble" of a sufficient magnitude to move, say, a 200 meter space ship, you would require about one quadrillion times all the energy existing in the visible universe. So we'll need bigger batteries  --------
Originally by: Constantine Arcanum most problems can be solved with chloroform.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.02.16 22:57:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 16/02/2007 22:53:54
Originally by: Patch86 The one nugget of a fact I can add is that in order to create a "warp bubble" of a sufficient magnitude to move, say, a 200 meter space ship, you would require about one quadrillion times all the energy existing in the visible universe. So we'll need bigger batteries 
Actually, according to the Wikipedia article, there have been some improvements on the original Alcubierre drive that reduce energy requirements for a 1 kiloton spaceship to a "mere" solar mass or two in pure energy.
EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard |

Nekuva
The SMITE Brotherhood Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.02.16 23:39:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Benglada If light has no mass how is it that black holes can pull them in? Something needs to have mass to be affected by gravity. therefore, light has mass.
But light does have energy, which is equivalent to mass. with Einstein's E=MC^2 it's possible to determine the equivalence.
Our understanding of gravity as understood through Einstein's work is that gravity is a distortion of space and time caused by an object with mass. One popular analogy used to demonstrate this is the heavy-ball-on-a-stretched-sheet illustration. (i'm sure you all have seen it before) Although, I'm not a big fan of it since distortions in 4 dimensional space-time can't accurately be depicted using a flat sheet and a ball.
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Give me ISK.... |

KingsGambit
Caldari Knights
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Posted - 2007.02.16 23:54:00 -
[26]
I remember reading somewhere that some scientists have managed to propel matter faster than light. Using an electron gun of some sort they were able to fire electrons (the smallest piece of matter) that travelled at speeds faster than light...underwater. Under water light travels slower than in air or a vacuum. Though the test doesn't work in a "Warp 9, Engage" sorta way, it does prove that matter *can* travel faster than light. -------------
My T2 Shop |

Nekuva
The SMITE Brotherhood Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 00:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: KingsGambit I remember reading somewhere that some scientists have managed to propel matter faster than light. Using an electron gun of some sort they were able to fire electrons (the smallest piece of matter) that travelled at speeds faster than light...underwater. Under water light travels slower than in air or a vacuum. Though the test doesn't work in a "Warp 9, Engage" sorta way, it does prove that matter *can* travel faster than light.
  touche! although i think we're all assuming the speed of light in a vacuum
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Give me ISK.... |

Logi3
EVE Corporation 1631
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Posted - 2007.02.17 01:54:00 -
[28]
This is something that has always interested me. Some good reads posted up. Personally i think its the problem of generating enough energy to power what ever needs powering to travel at Light speeds, if not faster
Reformed Pirate |

Lithalnas
Amarr Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2007.02.17 06:11:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Lithalnas on 17/02/2007 06:08:45 It is theorectically possible, but event the theory is highly debated in its correctness. But if that theory is true than it would take energy on a scale that is mind boggleing. Think of multiple black holes all putting out their entire lifes energy in an instant and you can break the speed of light instantly and no more.
whatever you throw at that speed would break into SUB atomic particles if it hits anything even the smallest spec of space dust. ------------- Midshipman Lithalnas - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
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