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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
372
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Posted - 2016.04.18 21:49:40 -
[31] - Quote
Nitco wrote:Aside from a few exceptions wardecs in highsec have mostly been a griefing tool and heck, much similar is suicide ganking and outside of the odd FW-gatecamp that's about the only PvP interaction you get in highsec.
I don't see how any of these offer quality gameplay or help to keep newer players in the game.
It's just bad game design if you ask me. However, highsec seems quite profitable still and perhaps even more so since I last took a break from EVE. Either there needs to be risk or the attractiveness of highsec should be adjusted, what I'm saying however is that wardec griefing and suicide ganking are bad ways to achieve the level of risk that's necessary.
Sounds like you are looking for a different game. Eve is a HTFU game.
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
169
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Posted - 2016.04.18 21:58:54 -
[32] - Quote
There are plenty of ways to defend against a War Dec. You need to learn how to do it though.
First, is the Deccing corp in the same system as you? If so, you'll either need to kiss and make up or leave and find a new system without them if you don't want to fight them.
You can always Dock up and stay docked for a week. This is the WORST way to deal with a War Dec but it's still effective, consider this option absolute last, I'm only putting it up here because some corps just jump to it first... I have no idea why.
If you are hauling, haul in small chunks in cheap ships... OR fly with a combat escort, if you can't put a decent one together, hire mercs if the cargo is important.
If mining, you'll either need escort or to do it covertly via wormholes, out of system, etc. and if out of system, trickle it back in.
You can also FIGHT back in some really nasty ways. Buy and build a fast ship with a cloak. Hang out in THEIR systems with your Cloak on, spies annoy the heck out of people and make them nervous. If you have enough corp buddies or some hired mercs, have your spy ship call in when they are doing some activity of their own and rain on their parade with your own forces. There are two things about War Dec corps that are generally true:
1. They are in it for the money and if you cost them more money than they can get off you, they won't Dec you again.
2. Most are pretty cowardly. They don't want real PvP fights. They want their combat ships against your industrials. You start raining combat ships on them, they will back off and dock up themselves. They are doing PvE as well, but instead of against Asteroids or NPC's, they like picking on players. You are nothing more than an Asteroid to them. It's just PvE by another method.
Do not fear War Decs. If you are doing your mining/hauling right in the first place, you are not someone they are going to spend big ISK on in the first place.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Chewytowel Haklar
Project RESET
141
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Posted - 2016.04.18 22:14:44 -
[33] - Quote
EVE involves risk, everything you do involves risk. It doesn't matter if you are the richest person in EVE, the most powerful, or the most loved. Risk is the lifeblood of this game and wardec's help keep the blood pressure stable. |
Saturn Sabezan
Slags
16
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Posted - 2016.04.18 22:19:20 -
[34] - Quote
This chestnut is so old, it comes with a complimentary incontinence pad and ear trumpet.
wat
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15140
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Posted - 2016.04.18 22:28:15 -
[35] - Quote
TheDamned wrote:While I dont necessarily like it, at least there is an immediate loss associated with suicide ganking and its more easily defend-able than a wardec.
You have that ass backward mate.
Ontop of having to pay in advance with no garantee of even seeing you, 1) Wars a trivial to avoid, to the point of being practically opt it. 2) wars just took a massive nerf when the watchlist went away, now all you have to do to avoid mercs is : Avoid hubs and pipes. 3) gankers will still hit you when you drop corp, and if its a hit rather than an opertunistic gank you are ****ed.
You clearly havent the slightest notion how wars function or how they have been recently gutted so kindly keep your ignorant mewling for further nerfs to yourself
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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TheDamned
Viziam Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2016.04.18 22:31:36 -
[36] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:TheDamned wrote:While I dont necessarily like it, at least there is an immediate loss associated with suicide ganking and its more easily defend-able than a wardec.
You have that ass backward mate. Ontop of having to pay in advance with no garantee of even seeing you, 1) Wars a trivial to avoid, to the point of being practically opt it. 2) wars just took a massive nerf when the watchlist went away, now all you have to do to avoid mercs is : Avoid hubs and pipes. 3) gankers will still hit you when you drop corp, and if its a hit rather than an opertunistic gank you are ****ed. You clearly havent the slightest notion how wars function or how they have been recently gutted so kindly keep your ignorant mewling for further nerfs to yourself
Ive seen you post about 100 times over the past few months and not once have you said anything worth a moments notice. I cant tell if you're just some sad, lonely nerd raging prick that hangs around EVE because its the only place you feel somewhat accepted or if its the only place you can be a prick and not get the **** kicked out of you. Either way, you're a loser. Read a book, buy a girlfriend with all of your ISK and attitude...oh wait.
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Paranoid Loyd
8926
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Posted - 2016.04.18 22:35:10 -
[37] - Quote
And he wonders why he gets wardecced.
Fix the Prospect! New Server Hardware!
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TheDamned
Viziam Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2016.04.18 22:37:30 -
[38] - Quote
If you cant comment intelligently without throwing around insults, then expect what you put out to come back to you.
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Paranoid Loyd
8926
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Posted - 2016.04.18 22:42:24 -
[39] - Quote
TheDamned wrote:then expect what you put out to come back to you. You mean like getting wardecced because you shitpost?
Fix the Prospect! New Server Hardware!
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TheDamned
Viziam Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2016.04.18 22:49:36 -
[40] - Quote
Sure, if you wanna be a jackass and toss insults and get butt hurt because someone opened your truth and you wanna war dec me to show me how much I hurt your feewings, go ahead. lol
Or, stop being a forum warrior putting everyone down.
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Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
303
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Posted - 2016.04.18 22:52:20 -
[41] - Quote
To the OP:
Seriously, you are getting this wrong.
Wardecs are a crap mechanic, on that most EVE players tend to agree, but your complaint smacks of both ignorance (of how they actually work and tend to play out in the game) and entitlement ("I am new and pay lots of money so my opinion should count as much as people who have invested years in the game").
Wardecs are a broken mechanic with the sole purpose of allowing "legal PVP" in highsec. They have no impact outside highsec and frankly little impact in highsec. Yes, new players/newbie corps are often the victims but you know what? That is the case with *all* aspects of PVP.
You paid a bunch of money, great. But you can't buy actual experience of how to play the game and your opinion is not going to carry the same weight as actual experience, so maybe listen to folks who do before you start complaining so bitterly. Don't be "that guy."
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Paranoid Loyd
8929
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Posted - 2016.04.18 22:52:47 -
[42] - Quote
He spoke truth and put you down because you are whining like a baby, an ignorant one at that, learn the game first then criticize the mechanics, it is obvious you have made no attempt to learn to play the game as it is and just want change.
Why shouldn't an established entity have an advantage over a new one that doesn't know how to defend itself?
TheDamned wrote:As someone who launched a new corporation and recruited new players to teach and get established in EVE in pilots chosen career path You shouldn't have started a corp. You are not well versed on how to make a thriving corp, nor do you know how to keep your mouth closed so that you don't attract attention. So why did you think you were someone who should be teaching noobs how to play when you don't even know how to play?
You were openly recruiting on the forums, then you started a thread that attracted more attention. Now you are here again, bitching up a storm. This is not how you start a corp, this is how you get wardecced into the ground.
Fix the Prospect! New Server Hardware!
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Saturn Sabezan
Slags
18
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Posted - 2016.04.18 22:58:59 -
[43] - Quote
TheDamned wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:TheDamned wrote:While I dont necessarily like it, at least there is an immediate loss associated with suicide ganking and its more easily defend-able than a wardec.
You have that ass backward mate. Ontop of having to pay in advance with no garantee of even seeing you, 1) Wars a trivial to avoid, to the point of being practically opt it. 2) wars just took a massive nerf when the watchlist went away, now all you have to do to avoid mercs is : Avoid hubs and pipes. 3) gankers will still hit you when you drop corp, and if its a hit rather than an opertunistic gank you are ****ed. You clearly havent the slightest notion how wars function or how they have been recently gutted so kindly keep your ignorant mewling for further nerfs to yourself Ive seen you post about 100 times over the past few months and not once have you said anything worth a moments notice. I cant tell if you're just some sad, lonely nerd raging prick that hangs around EVE because its the only place you feel somewhat accepted or if its the only place you can be a prick and not get the **** kicked out of you. Either way, you're a loser. You apparently don't have the means of making a comment without some form of personal insult. Only losers with false egos do that.
Please stop mewling and swearing now.
What next, Texas law?
wat
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
191
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Posted - 2016.04.18 23:03:47 -
[44] - Quote
Deck Cadelanne wrote:Don't be "that guy." He is already "that guy", when he choose to ignore all the good advice given in this thread, only to respond to personal insults and throw around mud. |
TheDamned
Viziam Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2016.04.18 23:12:21 -
[45] - Quote
You assume I dont know how Wardecs work or any other aspect of EVE. You're wrong. Exploration, Mining, PI, Combat Mission Running, Manufacturing, WH's etc are all things I'm pretty well versed in. PVP, I'm admittedly still wet behind the ears. I do know how Wardecs work as I've been on both sides of them personally. I've played actively for 3 months and while I don't have all of the worldly experience of how the game has changed over 10 years, I have a pretty decent grasp of the game as it is today.
There is rarely a thread started by anyone on these forums that doesnt end up in insults, back and forth banter and so on, I'll leave it at that. I've made my point and you are welcome to disagree with it as many of you do. You're entitled to your opinion the same as I am regardless of money spent or length of play time.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
13925
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Posted - 2016.04.18 23:18:05 -
[46] - Quote
TheDamned wrote:Because a lot of these bottom feeding corps didnt rise up under the same suppression they now bestow on other corps.
Many of you have been playing for a long time and have had ample time to establish yourselves. Sure, there were always challenges but you also had much more choice in what challenges you felt ready to face. New players today dont really have that choice between suicide gankers, high sec war deccing corps, etc. It's a mechanic that simply needs to be limited and or balanced a great deal.
You can't say "eve is hard, deal with it" because groups of people wanting to make war-deccing more risky or more "intelligent" than it currently is. There really is no excuse for being able to blanket dec every industrial/newbie corp in the game for constant easy kills. That to me is an exploit.
If a merc corp can easily look through a corporations kill mails and see, "hey, these guys suck, fly expensive ships to run missions or mine a lot, we should blow them all up and laugh ourselves to the bank" and have nothing to risk, then, that is not balanced in anyway shape or form and needs to be redone or pulled from the game until it can be balanced.
This is nonsense. EVE was WAY rougher when I started in 2007. GANKERS got PAID by the game to gank (ie you got insurance pay outs for ganking). There was no 'safey' to set green, most of the safety mechanics high sec folk take for granted didn't even exist.
And somehow I made it through, playing my while 1st year as a high sec only mission runner eventually flying a faction battleship (which as a big deal back then) dodging REAL gankers and can flippers, not the catalyst blobs of today. If CCP were smart they'd trim back all of this safety BS. When EVE didn't have as much of this "hug me" safety crap the game grew year after year even when CCP was slow to add new 'content'.
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Paranoid Loyd
8932
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Posted - 2016.04.18 23:19:41 -
[47] - Quote
TheDamned wrote:You assume I dont know how Wardecs work or any other aspect of EVE. You're wrong. This thread is evidence to the contrary
TheDamned wrote:Exploration, Mining, PI, Combat Mission Running, Manufacturing, WH's etc are all things I'm pretty well versed in. That's nice and all, however none of this has anything to do with running a corp.
TheDamned wrote:PVP, I'm admittedly still wet behind the ears. My point exactly, learn to defend yourself first, then learn to defend as a group, then start a corp.
Fix the Prospect! New Server Hardware!
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
13925
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Posted - 2016.04.18 23:21:12 -
[48] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote: You shouldn't have started a corp. You are not well versed on how to make a thriving corp that can defend itself, nor do you know how to keep your mouth closed so that you don't attract attention.
What, you mean this entire thread is just one guy who shouldn't have done something and is now blaming a game mechanic the rest of us survived for years rather than admitting to himself that he has more to learn and should do that rather than blame external factors?
That has never happened before...except for all the other times that exact thing has happened |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
347
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Posted - 2016.04.18 23:26:04 -
[49] - Quote
TheDamned wrote:You assume I dont know how Wardecs work or any other aspect of EVE. You're wrong. Exploration, Mining, PI, Combat Mission Running, Manufacturing, WH's etc are all things I'm pretty well versed in. PVP, I'm admittedly still wet behind the ears. I do know how Wardecs work as I've been on both sides of them personally. I've played actively for 3 months and while I don't have all of the worldly experience of how the game has changed over 10 years, I have a pretty decent grasp of the game as it is today.
There is rarely a thread started by anyone on these forums that doesnt end up in insults, back and forth banter and so on, I'll leave it at that. I've made my point and you are welcome to disagree with it as many of you do. You're entitled to your opinion the same as I am regardless of money spent or length of play time.
You just need to learn the value of an alt.
Train one up to mine and run level 1 missions, then do what I do.
Just laugh to yourself when they waste 50mil isk . That way you nearly carry on as normal enjoying what you do.
With the daily sp about to arrive you can train it without pausing your skill queue as well, bonus. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15141
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Posted - 2016.04.18 23:31:24 -
[50] - Quote
TheDamned wrote:You assume I dont know how Wardecs work or any other aspect of EVE.
Nope, specifically wars, as evidenced by this thread.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
304
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Posted - 2016.04.19 00:04:01 -
[51] - Quote
TheDamned wrote:You're entitled to your opinion the same as I am regardless of money spent or length of play time.
It might be a clue when your opinion is roundly rejected and trashed by pretty much every respondent but I suspect your level of entitlement and ego (so clearly on show) will prevent you from taking any useful lessons from this.
Enjoy the wardecs, you are going to see a lot of them.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1464
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Posted - 2016.04.19 00:12:23 -
[52] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:These war dec whines get old fast. The best way to avoid a war dec is to enjoy the 87.5 percent of new eden where war decs don't matter very much or at all.
Avoiding the mechanic doesn't make the mechanic any less broken. I wish people would learn that after all this time.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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TheDamned
Viziam Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2016.04.19 00:21:38 -
[53] - Quote
Tiger, its sadly obvious that nobody really cares about the plights of new players. They are like Grandpas and Grammas telling the kids how they walked 3 miles, barefoot in the snow and you should suck it up and do it too. Its a bit funny to see. I'm told the word "entitlement" will get you flamed when that's all I see in these threads. Older vets who feel entitled to keeping everything miserable for everyone else because they suffered through years of it to various degrees. God forbid a non disgruntled veteran have an opinion about an obviously broken mechanic.
Boy oh boy!
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
192
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Posted - 2016.04.19 00:42:23 -
[54] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Avoiding the mechanic doesn't make the mechanic any less broken. I wish people would learn that after all this time. Everyone gets the same rights to aggress. The aggressor is the one paying the monetary price to keep the dec going. It is extremely easy to avoid decs. How is this broken again? If you mean broken, by being extremely favorable to the defender, then I totally agree.
TheDamned wrote:Tiger, its sadly obvious that nobody really cares about the plights of new players. They are like Grandpas and Grammas telling the kids how they walked 3 miles, barefoot in the snow and you should suck it up and do it too. Its a bit funny to see. I'm told the word "entitlement" will get you flamed when that's all I see in these threads. Older vets who feel entitled to keeping everything miserable for everyone else because they suffered through years of it to various degrees. God forbid a non disgruntled veteran have an opinion about an obviously broken mechanic.
Boy oh boy!
This has nothing to do with bitter vets being cranky. People have given you advice in this thread, but you have dismissed it all by stating you know everything that there is to know. The only solution in your opnion, is for CCP to fix what you can't be bothered learning. This has nothing to do with anything being broken.
Both you and the wartargets have the same engagement rights. The attackers do not have any edge. You choose to not engage in PvP and that is fine. But you need to learn how to avoid not being caught by the WTs which is extremely easy in Highsec, given that there are no bubbles and you have a local telling you when WTs have entered the system.
In conclusion, it is your right to have your own opinion. But it would probably profit you as a player, if you actually listened to the advice given to you instead of throwing an attitude. |
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
304
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Posted - 2016.04.19 00:54:29 -
[55] - Quote
TheDamned wrote:Tiger, its sadly obvious that nobody really cares about the plights of new players.
Going to flat out call bullshit on that one. I fly in an alliance largely dedicated to helping new players. But rather than ***** and moan about the injustice of it all, we spend our time and effort teaching them how things work and how to succeed in the game. I learn as much by helping as the newer folks do by participating. I spend most of my time in game doing this. The difference between them and you is attitude: they want to learn and accept advice whereas you just spew your "opinion" based on three months of playing and a couple hundred dollars worth of ISK squandered on obviously wasted SP injectors.
This whole thread is you whining about how there are aspects of the game that are "unfair" but really this is about you not being able to "win," so in your opinion it must be broken, because in your "opinion" you are already a self-declared expert in the game based on three months of playing and spending a bunch of money on SP.
Complete bunch of crap. Stop trying to drag new players into your own ego-driven whine-fest.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
213
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Posted - 2016.04.19 01:43:41 -
[56] - Quote
TheDamned wrote:Oh I dont blame the wardeccers to be honest. If I were in their capable shoes and the game catered to my interests in preying on others for easy rewards, I'd probably be all over it too. It's not their fault for using what tools they have been handed to them.
It's CCP for creating the mechanic the way it is making it easy to abuse.
Why is the solution, to change wardecs?
Why isn't the solution, to remove the ability of new players to be CEOs of Corporations?
That's where the fault lies in relation to corps that can't handle wardecs. As a CEO, if you want other players to follow you, to pay you tax, to help build assets for your empire, then you should be expected to be able to guide those players through something as trivial as a wardec.
If you can't, then you shouldn't be a CEO.
The big issue with wardecs is not that they exist, it's that so many players have been conditioned by bad CEOs to understand there is nothing they can do, that a culture of whining has developed instead of seeing how a wardec actually has multiple benefits to the wardecced corp.
Get rid of the poor CEOs and the issue of wardecs disappears.
Aside from that, just bring in Social Corps already and the issue goes away too. Players can stay in their NPC Corp if they are too scared to face a wardec, while still having access to social constructs for group play. Just pay the higher tax. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3187
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Posted - 2016.04.19 01:46:21 -
[57] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: This is nonsense. EVE was WAY rougher when I started in 2007. GANKERS got PAID by the game to gank (ie you got insurance pay outs for ganking). There was no 'safey' to set green, most of the safety mechanics high sec folk take for granted didn't even exist.
It's almost like there were no bored vets sitting on years of OTEC income spinning gank alts to systematically attack new corps, no entrenched metagaming because people still did stuff via in game fights, no massive proliferation of highly complex out of game tools that are regarded as 'standard' by the current 'elite' to send pings to each other and co-ordinate actions out of game.
Trying to claim that 'I did it 9 years ago, so obviously it's exactly the same today' is an outright joke. The technology involved which allows gankers and wardeccers to suppress a group has undergone massive evolution. And one of the best hopes for Highsec corps to see more meaning looks like failing before it even starts due to insufficient firepower from a High Sec citadel against the targets it actually has to deal with and the outright advantages being continually handed to null sec.
So yea.. nah. There are real issues surrounding new players in EVE now, and they are caused by the toxic parts of the community who have too much wealth built up and not enough to do with it. The solutions to it don't lie in the wardec mechanics though, and don't lie in making concord respond faster either, those are just visible symptoms of the problem. |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
213
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Posted - 2016.04.19 01:46:48 -
[58] - Quote
TheDamned wrote:Tiger, its sadly obvious that nobody really cares about the plights of new players. That's totaly bullshit.
Look at all the changes in the game recently made by CCP for the benefit of new players. If you can't see that, you're blind. |
TheDamned
Viziam Amarr Empire
18
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Posted - 2016.04.19 02:06:55 -
[59] - Quote
I'm just curious that since the majority of you shouting from the rooftops about how I shouldn't be a CEO, dont know how to play the game and or otherwise have no idea what I'm doing if I should just remain in an NPC corp like the rest of you to avoid wardecs and not try at all or are those just the toons you use to post on the forums? I guess thats just part of the evasion tactics you learn after years of being an uber hard core EVE pilot? |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
192
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Posted - 2016.04.19 02:18:44 -
[60] - Quote
TheDamned wrote:I'm just curious that since the majority of you shouting from the rooftops about how I shouldn't be a CEO, dont know how to play the game and or otherwise have no idea what I'm doing if I should just remain in an NPC corp like the rest of you to avoid wardecs and not try at all or are those just the toons you use to post on the forums? I guess thats just part of the evasion tactics you learn after years of being an uber hard core EVE pilot? Wow, didn't know I am in a NPC corp. But narh, it's true. I have no idea what I'm talking about. I haven't had any experience being a target while flying around solo being perma-flashy and basing out of Jita.
Can I join your corp so you can teach me your awesome skills, plz? |
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