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Lt Purifier	Posted - 2007.02.18 10:47:00 - [1] Sooo straight to the point: I'm looking for some help with the trading profession...I mean I've read and read numberous trading posts and guides. And i have an idea as to what and how to trade(I found a nice profitable trade route netting 10kk minimum per run for an hours work, although I end up dead heading back). But im the type of person that needs examples of how to do something, just general descriptions on anything gets me lost. Ya know what i mean? So im wondering if anyone would be willing to give up a trade secret or two that worked for them before, but has since tried up. An actual trade route or trade strategy. I can be from 3 years ago for all i care or 3 days ago, as long as its a dry trade now. I wouldnt want to give my trade secrets away if i had em nor would i want you too. Just examples that are no longer profitable. I ask this because im a tard that needs to be lead by hand out of a burning house fire. It can be in convo or in eve-mail or even here. Any advice that you'd like to share with me privately would be greatly appreciated
YunFu Yan Yan Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.18 11:13:00 - [2] Lemme think of something I can give away without hurting my own business... Buy low - Sell high! No really, 'trading' is a widespread activity. You gotta be a bit more specific on what you want to do I think.
Treelox Amarr Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.18 11:56:00 - [3] 4 flavors or trading, and all have different strategys. There may be other types, but they are really just variants of these basic 4. NPC Trading T1 Trading T2 Trading Mineral Trading Which of these is right for you? How much money you willing to lose? How far and long are you willing to haul? Think about these questions, you asked us a VERY broad question, so we need to narrow it down a bit. -- Signature edited - this is your last warning - Jacques
Lt Purifier	Posted - 2007.02.18 12:26:00 - [4] Well the only good trade route I've found was mineral trading, although its only one way and one mineral(also through low sec). I'm looking for something along the lines of buying at x station and turning around and selling a same x station. I was thinking of setting up buy orders for say, a certain cruiser at 400-500k less than average sell price or the lowest current sell price and resell at average or lowest current sell price. Something like that, havent figured a good item as of yet.. I have no clue on how to NPC trade, I've tried T2 trade hauling T2 mods into deep low sec, only to have someone undercut my sell price(and I only had 15% markup). T1 trading is absolutely open and have no idea on how to start into that. I'm thinking that after I get a Frieghter, that I'll be able to make ALOT more isk off mineral trading, I've already scouted out trade routes for this and hoping I could jump into it real soon. I've got almost 300k capital atm, But the market can change overnight
Oriella Trikassi Trikassi Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.18 16:27:00 - [5] Originally by: Treelox 4 flavors or trading, and all have different strategys. There may be other types, but they are really just variants of these basic 4. NPC Trading T1 Trading T2 Trading Mineral Trading Well there you go. I'm a Trader in that it's been my main income source for over two years but I do none of the above! Anything that anyone wants to buy or sell can be traded. The first trick is to look at what you have been buying and selling as a pilot. Were you dealing directly with a manufacturer or an NPC buyer? If not, how was that player trader making a profit? The second trick is to Browse on the market screens and try to work out what's going on, not just for obvious things like ships and weapons but all that stuff that you don't even know what it's used for. If there are player Orders up, someone is making a profit or trying to. If there are no Orders up, have a go yourself :-) --- Trikassi Enterprises, oiling the jumpgates of commerce since 2004
Marie deMedici	Posted - 2007.02.26 02:32:00 - [6] if you have only 300k of capital you should do npc trading.. lots of easy money there. see what npc stuff is bought/sold for how much and where and then move it. inter-region can double your isk every run.
Drab Cane Caldari Synet Research and Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.02.26 03:09:00 - [7] I've only been in-game for two-months now, but I have learned a few things. I would agree - NPC trading is your best bet when starting out. When I know what commodity I want to buy/sell, I set my market browser to sort Sell orders by smallest price first by clicking on the Price column label. I sort the Buy orders by highest price first. This makes it easier to find the good deals. Then I start looking for Sell and Buy orders that will fill my cargospace. I tend to sacrifice some total profit for a shorter route - the sooner you can turn your investment around, the more trades you can do, the more money you'll make. Check out the Trade-Finder service at eve-central.com - By searching for routes from one system to the region at large, I discovered what products were best to trade in when departing from a particular system and I wrote that info down. The detailed trade info in the Trade-Finder can be outdated, so check for real sell and buy orders before spending ISK. I was able to come up with routes where I might buy Livestock in system A, sell it in system B while buying Frozen Food there. Then I'd sell the Frozen Food in system C and buy Silicate Glass that I then sold back in system A. Learn what products each system in your area/region sells and buys, and it'll be easier for you to fill that cargohold on the way back. You might not make much on that return trip, but it'll add up. The last thing I would add is don't do the route unless you're netting a minimum of 10% profit (hopefully 15% or better). If you can't make that kind of profit, you need to look for a different product and/or region. - Who Dares, Wins
Marie deMedici	Posted - 2007.02.26 03:45:00 - [8] since you are very capital-limited do something which costs as much as possible per unit with the best profits available. Filling your cargo is not a problem , just get a fast ship with barely large enough cargo space.After you get some capital behind you , you can start worrying about cargospace-vs-profit-vs-capital_per_holdfull
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.02.26 08:12:00 - [9] Trading is not for you unless you have millions upon millions to possibly lose. If you don't even have a few million you shouldn't be in the trading business... you should be in the pew-pew business or the rock cultivation business until you do have some real money. And asking for useful trading hints on these forums is like asking a politician for the truth... it's not gonna happen. That list of the 4 types of trading doesn't even scratch the surface of what's out there... and the most profitable kinds of trading have never once been mentioned on these forums. No matter how many posts I read I never see anyone mention the kind of trading I do or anything close... and I guess thats why I make billions. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Hydro Flow	Posted - 2007.02.26 11:34:00 - [10] Originally by: Shadarle Trading is not for you unless you have millions upon millions to possibly lose. If you don't even have a few million you shouldn't be in the trading business... you should be in the pew-pew business or the rock cultivation business until you do have some real money. And asking for useful trading hints on these forums is like asking a politician for the truth... it's not gonna happen. That list of the 4 types of trading doesn't even scratch the surface of what's out there... and the most profitable kinds of trading have never once been mentioned on these forums. No matter how many posts I read I never see anyone mention the kind of trading I do or anything close... and I guess thats why I make billions. I know the risk involved in market trading, but thanks for pointing out the obvious...... I never asked anyone to give up anything that would take away from their business directly. I'm just asking for advice. what kind of trading should i start into...I assume it would be NPC trading until i get the millions upon millions to possibly lose. BTW I started this thread to see/ask people privately how they got started, i never wanted anyones current routes, tricks and/or secrets. Ohh please dont gloat on how much you've made in "secret" trading that no one knows about but the elite few. If your not going to be constructive in this thread then dont be in this thread.....pretty simple huh? BTW I started NPC trading and though slow its more income than i first thought, just had to play with it awhile.

Lt Purifier Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.26 11:35:00 - [11] ^ my alt
Mark Weston Caldari The Graduates Ivy League	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:30:00 - [12] I started trading in t1 modules with only a few hundred thousand ISK in working capital. It's perfectly possible to make money like this (in fact it's very hard to not make money), and dealing in modules you don't need a freighter (or even a hauler) to move them around. Frigates like the Probe can do the job. As your capital grows you can scale your business by trading in more expensive named modules and keep the volumes you're trading manageable. There's no reason for you to follow my path of course - you can scale up in volume as well as unit value; it's just that I get bored when flying haulers and start doing stupid things like turning the autopilot on. As I'm sure you know, t1 named modules are generally dropped by rats and collected as loot by ratters and mission-runners who will mostly want to sell them. They're bought by players who want to upgrade from vanilla t1, who will generally pay quite a high premium for the convenience of buying at their hub of choice, and aren't very aware of prices across regional boundaries. The profit lies in moving the modules from where they drop to where they're bought, and exploiting price differences between regions. Profit margins are in the range of 50-150% on each module (though the margins start to drop as you move up the price scale). A couple of examples from when I started about six months ago. Maikoth assault launchers: I would put up buy orders within 3 jumps of Suroken (In Citadel, where they were being regularly dropped by mission rats) for 10-12.5k and sell them in Jita for 25-30k. Expanded Cargohold I: I would place buy orders in Jita for 15-20k and sell in Sobaseki (1 jump, but across a regional boundary) for 30-40k. How do you find which modules to trade in? To start with, do a bit of ratting and mission-running yourself to see what kind of stuff gets dropped. Then pick out the loot types that are in your price range and seem to be in demand at the hubs, and place buy orders for them. Spend some time just staring at the market screens and finding items with a big gap between buy and sell prices. Travel between regions and compare the prices of selected items to find differences that you can trade on. As I said, profit margins are high because non-traders will pay a lot for convenience. So this kind of trading is very low risk. You will make the odd bad decision where, for example, a juicy price difference turns out to be a very brief fluctuation. But as long as you're buying with buy orders and selling with sell orders a bad decision will normally mean a low profit margin, not a catastrophic loss. New to EVE? Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Vasiliyan PAX Interstellar Services Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:54:00 - [13] For a while it was possible to buy Neural Boost - Basic in Oursulaert @17m and sell in Stacmon @23-25m, two regions and 10 jumps away. The spread has got a lot narrower now and I'm still trying to sell the last batch. When I was a noob running missions in Bereye, I could make some money by putting up mineral buy orders and then either turning them into sell orders or hauling rares to and from Oursulaert. Trading strategy varies depending on how much gametime you have to move things around in and how much capital you can afford to have tied up in inventory.
Elowo Nahva Mega Investments	Posted - 2007.02.26 16:20:00 - [14] Originally by: Mark Weston I started trading in t1 modules with only a few hundred thousand ISK in working capital. It's perfectly possible to make money like this (in fact it's very hard to not make money), and dealing in modules you don't need a freighter (or even a hauler) to move them around. Frigates like the Probe can do the job. As your capital grows you can scale your business by trading in more expensive named modules and keep the volumes you're trading manageable. There's no reason for you to follow my path of course - you can scale up in volume as well as unit value; it's just that I get bored when flying haulers and start doing stupid things like turning the autopilot on. As I'm sure you know, t1 named modules are generally dropped by rats and collected as loot by ratters and mission-runners who will mostly want to sell them. They're bought by players who want to upgrade from vanilla t1, who will generally pay quite a high premium for the convenience of buying at their hub of choice, and aren't very aware of prices across regional boundaries. The profit lies in moving the modules from where they drop to where they're bought, and exploiting price differences between regions. Profit margins are in the range of 50-150% on each module (though the margins start to drop as you move up the price scale). A couple of examples from when I started about six months ago. Maikoth assault launchers: I would put up buy orders within 3 jumps of Suroken (In Citadel, where they were being regularly dropped by mission rats) for 10-12.5k and sell them in Jita for 25-30k. Expanded Cargohold I: I would place buy orders in Jita for 15-20k and sell in Sobaseki (1 jump, but across a regional boundary) for 30-40k. How do you find which modules to trade in? To start with, do a bit of ratting and mission-running yourself to see what kind of stuff gets dropped. Then pick out the loot types that are in your price range and seem to be in demand at the hubs, and place buy orders for them. Spend some time just staring at the market screens and finding items with a big gap between buy and sell prices. Travel between regions and compare the prices of selected items to find differences that you can trade on. As I said, profit margins are high because non-traders will pay a lot for convenience. So this kind of trading is very low risk. You will make the odd bad decision where, for example, a juicy price difference turns out to be a very brief fluctuation. But as long as you're buying with buy orders and selling with sell orders a bad decision will normally mean a low profit margin, not a catastrophic loss. Ah. This is a good idea. Thank you for the tip. My firm is currently based out of the Sobaseki region. My investors have been gracious in allowing me capital to build up my firm, with high hopes I'll be able to take their investment and turn it into a nice profit. However I don't have much time... and this is perfect. Thank you again.
SencneS Amarr Keepers of the Holy Bagel SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 18:04:00 - [15] Here is something interesting that someone told me in the newbie channel. For T1 mods you should work out how much it's worth to you in minerals first. Lets say reprocessed it's got 10,000 Trit 5,000 Pyer 500 Iso This is total numbers not just what you'd get (After tax and refining rate) Lets say that is worth 124,000 in Minerals (Used base mineral price) So the item is really only valued at 124K. If you could sell it for 124K You'd make more money then reprocessing it. Because there are TAX and your refining skills are probably not that great. Now take that 124K and perform this math on it. (124,000/1.05)/1.5 = 78,730.16 That's your BUY price right there. What is it, it's the cost of the minerals divided by the 5% tax and the 50% reprocessing effect. (Skills give you more profit, but this is always your buy price) Lowest sell price is as followed. (124,000+(124,000-((124,000/1.05)/1.5)))*1.1 = 186,196.83 This is as low as you want to sell it. What is it, well it's the amount of TAX you'd pay if you reprocessed it + the base line cost of the part itself. Now I never got around to followed this but I wrote it all down in my notes incase I ever wanted to buy/sell items at a Hub. Apparently the guy swore by it. I looked at it originally and thought it was unrealistic when I looked at some items. The "Rare Item" factor is missing, although I couldn't argue with the dude he make Hundreds of millions a week literally doing nothing. ---------------------------------- Send ISK to SencneS for good Kama!
Mark Weston Caldari The Graduates Ivy League	Posted - 2007.02.26 19:12:00 - [16] Originally by: Elowo Nahva Ah. This is a good idea. Thank you for the tip. My firm is currently based out of the Sobaseki region. My investors have been gracious in allowing me capital to build up my firm, with high hopes I'll be able to take their investment and turn it into a nice profit. However I don't have much time... and this is perfect. Thank you again. I point out again that those examples are from six months ago; they're not at all current hot tips. In particular, Expanded Cargohold Is are no longer made from limited-by-lottery BPOs so I imagine that market is very different now. But I'm sure there still is money to be made from trading between Jita and Sobaseki, as that region boundary keeps the Sobaseki customers conveniently ignorant of Jita prices available only 1 jump away. New to EVE? Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Quinton McTish McTish Industries	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:32:00 - [17] Originally by: SencneS Here is something interesting that someone told me in the newbie channel. For T1 mods you should work out how much it's worth to you in minerals first. Lets say reprocessed it's got 10,000 Trit 5,000 Pyer 500 Iso This is total numbers not just what you'd get (After tax and refining rate) Lets say that is worth 124,000 in Minerals (Used base mineral price) So the item is really only valued at 124K. If you could sell it for 124K You'd make more money then reprocessing it. Because there are TAX and your refining skills are probably not that great. Now take that 124K and perform this math on it. (124,000/1.05)/1.5 = 78,730.16 That's your BUY price right there. What is it, it's the cost of the minerals divided by the 5% tax and the 50% reprocessing effect. (Skills give you more profit, but this is always your buy price) Lowest sell price is as followed. (124,000+(124,000-((124,000/1.05)/1.5)))*1.1 = 186,196.83 This is as low as you want to sell it. What is it, well it's the amount of TAX you'd pay if you reprocessed it + the base line cost of the part itself. Now I never got around to followed this but I wrote it all down in my notes incase I ever wanted to buy/sell items at a Hub. Apparently the guy swore by it. I looked at it originally and thought it was unrealistic when I looked at some items. The "Rare Item" factor is missing, although I couldn't argue with the dude he make Hundreds of millions a week literally doing nothing. I believe there is/was a way where, if you had not only good standing with the station to alleviate the tax amount, but also high refining skills, that you could buy a bunch of NOS's and reprocess them. Because they give Megacyte when reprocessed. Not like you needed to buy them... they drop off rats fairly commonly. So instead of selling them as an item, it can't hurt to see what you'll get from reprocessing them and doing the math that way. I've got an excel sheet that allows me to punch in the ore/mineral amount to see what will sell more. Won't take much tweaking to do the same with items. It takes into account tax withdrawal along with refining percentages. McTish Industries
Elowo Nahva Mega Investments	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:41:00 - [18] Originally by: Mark Weston I point out again that those examples are from six months ago; they're not at all current hot tips. In particular, Expanded Cargohold Is are no longer made from limited-by-lottery BPOs so I imagine that market is very different now. But I'm sure there still is money to be made from trading between Jita and Sobaseki, as that region boundary keeps the Sobaseki customers conveniently ignorant of Jita prices available only 1 jump away. Right.... which is what I was getting at. I would make sure to check both markets thoroughly for profit margins to ensure a positive one. Not Cargoholds specifically, of course. Unless, that is, they happened to give a good margin of profit by selling. Do you find that there is any particular group of item that tends to sell better than others?


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