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Leadership training Question?

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evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.18 13:24:00 - [1] I am looking for materials specifically to training leadership. I have information on how to determine a leader, being a good leader etc, but I would like to find information on how to train a leader. I am trying to get this information for my guide, so it will be a better guide. Does anyone know where I can find it? Oh I did try google already. ----------- Management and Leadership
Drakma Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.18 13:43:00 - [2] I would honestly say that a leader is born, not made. ----------------- Gekidoku is recruiting - Ingame channel Gekidoku
Sidrat Flush Caldari Galaxy Punks Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.18 13:54:00 - [3] Nah leadership qualities can be found in anyone willing to learn by those who lead by example. Of course the pupil has to agree somewhat to their mentors principles, but hey just remember the Golden Rule. The Leopard NEVER taught the Lion to climb trees. Important point to remember. Character is important, if you want to be lead by a leader who swears and shouts all the time, fine they're easy, if you want a good leader that has the respect of people they have to lead, that just takes a little time and a lot of practice. Drilling, constantly drilling. Life is about memories the more the better. Looking for CCP to improve availability of their GTC's, for non card carriers!
Drakma Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.18 13:57:00 - [4] Originally by: Sidrat Flush Nah leadership qualities can be found in anyone willing to learn by those who lead by example. Of course the pupil has to agree somewhat to their mentors principles, but hey just remember the Golden Rule. The Leopard NEVER taught the Lion to climb trees. Important point to remember. Character is important, if you want to be lead by a leader who swears and shouts all the time, fine they're easy, if you want a good leader that has the respect of people they have to lead, that just takes a little time and a lot of practice. Drilling, constantly drilling. You're born with those leadership qualities... you can not make somebody a good leader that doesn't have those inherent qualities. ----------------- Gekidoku is recruiting - Ingame channel Gekidoku
GOLDEN LAMB	Posted - 2007.02.18 13:58:00 - [5] Hi, First of all, I`m suprised that you managed to define what good leadership is, as there are still many books written about this topic. Looking at your guide and taking one possible empirical found definition I would say youre missing one possible component. The LBDQ (Leader Behavior Description Questionnair) is shortened down to 2 items: consideration and initiating structure. Stogdill added another 10 items quite randomly. In my opinion you`re solely focusing on the human ressource aspect (consideration). There are certain problems with "training" a leader. - Is the leader really leading or is this more a coproduction of situation, your members and the leader? - Does good leadership really require the same specific characteristics under various conditions? If not, are good leader able to switch between their way of leading? Frankly, I dont know what good leadership is. I firmly believe though, that there are different ways of "good" leadership. This also means, you can not really train a "good" leader, but people can get used to lead and learn by doing. All the management theory has one main advantage, it will make you reconsider your way of leading and might show you a new and different approach. But sitting down and reading a book, so you can be a "good"leader when you finish it, no.
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.18 14:00:00 - [6] I disagree, a child is not born with those qualities, its their upbringing in which such traits are developed. I fear my question is not as clear as I hoped. What is the method/teaching style/ methodology used to teach such things to leaders? ----------- Management and Leadership
Drakma Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.18 14:04:00 - [7] Originally by: evistin I disagree, a child is not born with those qualities, its their upbringing in which such traits are developed. I fear my question is not as clear as I hoped. What is the method/teaching style/ methodology used to teach such things to leaders? Ok, I'll leave the nature vs nurture argument alone then. I guess I'm still not sure of what you are asking. ----------------- Gekidoku is recruiting - Ingame channel Gekidoku
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.18 14:06:00 - [8] Originally by: GOLDEN LAMB Hi, First of all, I`m suprised that you managed to define what good leadership is, as there are still many books written about this topic. Looking at your guide and taking one possible empirical found definition I would say youre missing one possible component. The LBDQ (Leader Behavior Description Questionnair) is shortened down to 2 items: consideration and initiating structure. Stogdill added another 10 items quite randomly. In my opinion you`re solely focusing on the human ressource aspect (consideration). There are certain problems with "training" a leader. - Is the leader really leading or is this more a coproduction of situation, your members and the leader? - Does good leadership really require the same specific characteristics under various conditions? If not, are good leader able to switch between their way of leading? Frankly, I dont know what good leadership is. I firmly believe though, that there are different ways of "good" leadership. This also means, you can not really train a "good" leader, but people can get used to lead and learn by doing. All the management theory has one main advantage, it will make you reconsider your way of leading and might show you a new and different approach. But sitting down and reading a book, so you can be a "good"leader when you finish it, no. To prevent Snipping, please mods do not snip my quote. I technically did not define leadership, its someone else who did, I just agree with it. The LBDQ is something I have not seen, I will have to read that, thank you, it looks like an excellent resource. As to the certain problems "training" the leader, you are pretty much hitting the nail on the head for me, do you know where I can locate more information on this area? ----------- Management and Leadership
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.02.18 14:13:00 - [9] Originally by: evistin I am looking for materials specifically to training leadership. I have information on how to determine a leader, being a good leader etc, but I would like to find information on how to train a leader. I am trying to get this information for my guide, so it will be a better guide. Does anyone know where I can find it? Oh I did try google already. Give him responsibility. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
GOLDEN LAMB	Posted - 2007.02.18 14:19:00 - [10] I doubt I can find the "one" book regarding this, but I will try to get you a nice list by monday latest tuesday

Yakoff Star Scream Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.02.18 17:14:00 - [11] Well, all I thought you had to do was buy the Leadership Skill book, right click on it, and click train. Repeat train 4 more times, and you are a leader.
Max Teranous Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.18 17:30:00 - [12] Anyone wih experience and training can become compatent or pretty good with time. However truely great leaders have that spark of talent that cannot be learned nor trained. IMO, anyway. Max --------------------
Ranged Airman Black Sun Consortium	Posted - 2007.02.18 17:30:00 - [13] Edited by: Ranged Airman on 18/02/2007 17:29:49 If you feel like reading, click here edited to fix my lack of proper linking :)
Rabb Darktide Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.02.18 19:54:00 - [14] The U.S. Army Leadership Manual is very good - Amazon Link Also, the book Patton on Leadership is required reading for all of my managers IRL - Amazon Link ---- INDF Recruitment
Logan Feynman Constructive Influence	Posted - 2007.02.18 21:49:00 - [15] Originally by: evistin I disagree, a child is not born with those qualities, its their upbringing in which such traits are developed. This is your opinion, completely without solid scientific basis. Unless you are a neuroscientist or an evolutionary biologist this is just something you want to believe in. Proof or STFU. Originally by: evistin I fear my question is not as clear as I hoped. What is the method/teaching style/ methodology used to teach such things to leaders? You can train people in management, in organisation, in human psychology and human motivation, but you can't train leadership. People follow men of character, those that live in their own world among us. You can't teach character to someone, you have to find it for yourself. If you prefer biology - leaders are alpha males. You can't train someone to become that, you fight for that, either with your own insecurities or with those that oppose you, on any applicable field. (conversations, sports, games, dancing, fists...) We tried to train leaders, but you can't. One either leads men or does not. Those that do not either do not want to, or can't. Titles and training change nothing.
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.19 00:17:00 - [16] Originally by: Ranged Airman Edited by: Ranged Airman on 18/02/2007 17:29:49 If you feel like reading, click here edited to fix my lack of proper linking :) Thank you for a good read. ----------- Management and Leadership
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.19 00:20:00 - [17] Originally by: Logan Feynman This is your opinion, completely without solid scientific basis. Unless you are a neuroscientist or an evolutionary biologist this is just something you want to believe in. Proof or STFU. Correct its my opinion, but its not without proof. If you wish to engage in the nurture versus naturally argument, I would like to see your evidence as well. I am more than happy to show you what I got that both proves and disproves both side of the argument. ----------- Management and Leadership
Khul Drukath Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2007.02.19 01:25:00 - [18] Although I am unaware of any specific tests conducted upon leadership (which is a very fuzzy measurement at the best of times), the nature vs nurture argument tends to fall into the same pattern. Nature defines your potential, whilst nurture sees how well you achieve your potential. There are many examples of this. Some people are naturally agile or intelligent, but training and education still expand their abilities. I cannot see a reason why leadership should be any different. A truly great leader must be born with something that the rest of us are not (in the same way that a truly great athlete or academic has talents that are beyond most of us), but having potential is not the same as realising it. Evistin (or any of these books) may not be able to make a great leader of anyone, but that doesn;t mean he can't allow a great leader to realise their potential. (And for the record I am a neuroscientist). Evistin - what I think makes a great leader is the ability to step up during adversity to focus a group of people into achieving a goal. Note that this is different to being a good manager (in my experience most managers are well organised but actually make shockingly bad leaders), or in Eve terms a good commander. Therefore I would agree that experience is a greater asset to you than written material. I also think this is why most people would say great leaders are "made", as they may only realise their abilities when put in a situation that calls upon them. Anyhow - good luck in your pursuits. Maybe you could look to write something about leadership that is adapted to Eve based upon your experience with your corp?
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.19 04:27:00 - [19] I ought to make mention on how much stress you gave me while you war dec me...lol ----------- Management and Leadership


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