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Swindy
AirHawk Alliance Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.18 18:10:00 -
[1]
Why does turret tracking use transversal velocity for tracking calculations? It seems to me that it should radial velocity instead.
Orbiting a stationary object at 500m/s gives a radial velocity of zero and a transversal velocity of 500m/s. Yet in reality my turrets don't care about transversal velocity; my ship is constantly turning to orbit the stationary object and my turrets have to move very little, if at all, to stay on target. This is how the AC-130 gunship operates, and they bolt a 105mm Howitzer cannon to the floor of the plane that has zero tracking speed. If this was EVE then this ship would never be able to hit its target, yet in the real world it is deadly accurate.
Is this discrepancy explained anywhere? Your signature is too large. Please see the Forum Rules for the limits - Serathu ([email protected])
The views expressed above are my own, blah blah blah ... |
Ma'ax
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Posted - 2007.02.19 06:34:00 -
[2]
You are saying the revolution of the ship itself cancels out some of the 'transverse' part of the calculation, but only if the ship is actually orbiting the opponent -- what if it is orbiting a different opponent, should the ship revolution subtract?
Isn't it odd that all your turrets hit the same, no matter what the orientation of the two ships are? None of the turrets are masked?
Tracking speed is an excellent simplification of the physics involved, giving a quasi-realistic 'feel' to the combat and limitations to be overcome, tactics to be developed, etc. It isn't accutate in the same way that ships in space do not continue to accellerate indefinitely. It just is.
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Kimo Sabi
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Posted - 2007.02.19 12:12:00 -
[3]
Well.... if EVE's "to-hit" engine is worked out using linear physics (ie, basing it on flybys all the time) then the radial velocity and distance to target can be used to figure out quite simply the chance to hit.
If it's worked out taking into account motion of the ship and target (and the equation is about four times more complicated and a bit more CPU intensive) then it may take into account the turning arc of the ship at the same time. I think a Dev'd need to comment on this one, but I feel that the use of arcs in the "to-hit" chance calculation will be thrown off by simply going into orbit as you're pretty much garaunteed a hit every time - nasty if you're using artillery at close range
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.19 13:03:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Goumindong on 19/02/2007 13:00:29
Originally by: Swindy Why does turret tracking use transversal velocity for tracking calculations? It seems to me that it should radial velocity instead.
Orbiting a stationary object at 500m/s gives a radial velocity of zero and a transversal velocity of 500m/s. Yet in reality my turrets don't care about transversal velocity; my ship is constantly turning to orbit the stationary object and my turrets have to move very little, if at all, to stay on target. This is how the AC-130 gunship operates, and they bolt a 105mm Howitzer cannon to the floor of the plane that has zero tracking speed. If this was EVE then this ship would never be able to hit its target, yet in the real world it is deadly accurate.
Is this discrepancy explained anywhere?
1) Radial velocity is the velocity along the radial plane. I.E. its velocity towards are away from your ship. If you are orbiting an object the radial velocity ought to be 0.
2) The game does not record ship orientation. Ship orientation is given by the client based on the ships velocity vector.
3) Calcing orientation would be a huge load on the server
4) It would totaly either total unbalance battleships or totaly destroy short range battleships. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.02.19 14:40:00 -
[5]
The transversal velocity is wrong when we orbit and we orbit often... For most of other cases, it's quite accurate and easy to calculate. It avoids some stuff like battleships orbiting their target and shooting it with extreme range weapons with very poor tracking. Maybe it's like that to reflect the poor computer tech of all the races... Look at what we actually put in a combat plane and how accurate are all the calculations. But, if the onboard computer of the ships was better, what would be left to the pod-pilots' skills?
We would just be floating unuseful puppets in an egg (the pod) and have nothing to do, the combat computer would decide better than us. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Flying Vexor and Ishkur, Myrmidon was too slow, got ganked by 3 BC and a Megathron...
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Abiel Mordecai
Gallente Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.21 13:21:00 -
[6]
I'm not sure about this one either, but if a dev were to comment it would also settle the drone tracking problem when training the drone navi and drone sharpshooting skills. The fact that those drone skills exist at all makes me think that transversaldoesn't take into account your own orbit velocity.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.21 14:53:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 19/02/2007 13:00:29
Originally by: Swindy Why does turret tracking use transversal velocity for tracking calculations? It seems to me that it should radial velocity instead.
Orbiting a stationary object at 500m/s gives a radial velocity of zero and a transversal velocity of 500m/s. Yet in reality my turrets don't care about transversal velocity; my ship is constantly turning to orbit the stationary object and my turrets have to move very little, if at all, to stay on target. This is how the AC-130 gunship operates, and they bolt a 105mm Howitzer cannon to the floor of the plane that has zero tracking speed. If this was EVE then this ship would never be able to hit its target, yet in the real world it is deadly accurate.
Is this discrepancy explained anywhere?
1) Radial velocity is the velocity along the radial plane. I.E. its velocity towards are away from your ship. If you are orbiting an object the radial velocity ought to be 0.
2) The game does not record ship orientation. Ship orientation is given by the client based on the ships velocity vector.
3) Calcing orientation would be a huge load on the server
4) It would totaly either total unbalance battleships or totaly destroy short range battleships.
Naa it would not. Just a stupid vector product between speed and vector to target...
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.02.21 15:06:00 -
[8]
You can see how it is calculated here page 3.
reduce the vector of one of the ships close to 0, put the other one perpendicular to red line, this is an orbir, you get same transversal velocity for both, as it is common to them. Then orbiting and stopped ships have the same tracking needs to hit. As usually the orbiting ship will be smaller, it will have better tracking and hit and the big stopped one will not hit. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Flying Vexor and Ishkur, Myrmidon was too slow, got ganked by 3 BC and a Megathron...
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