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Lvl 4 Vengeance 2.5mill BS problems.

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Shadow Grim	Posted - 2007.02.18 18:21:00 - [1] I am new to lvl 4 missions (I've only done about a half a dozen so far though I've had no problems up till now). Last night I got vengeance and cleared all the way to the 2.5mill BS. After reading some tips I flew back and re-fitted my CNR (no I'm not an ebay baby, I've just won 2 contests with Eve Radio and was able to get into one of these bad boys) for more damage...or at least what I thought would be more damage. Below was my fitting...mind you I'm only at 3.2 mill SP so far: 7x Cruise Arbys (I haven't trained trops yet...could this be the key for this mission?) 1x XL Booster, 2x Invul Fields, 1x Boost Amp, 1x webber, 1x AB 5x BCU I (yes I know about the stacking penalty but didn't know what else to use at the time) I have 3x CCC rigs if anyone was wondering. At anyrate, with this setup I used my AB to get in close, webbed him for less transversal velocity (I know I know it's a BS but I was hoping for any additional DPS I could squeeze). I sent in my 5x medium drones (I don't have much skill in drones yet but again I wanted anymore dps I could get). My kenetic cruise missiles were hitting the hardest at about 220 per hit. I was staggering my missiles for a better DPS spread and after 10 minutes he was still boosting up to almost 100% shields. I failed the mission due to time constraints. Can anyone give me more tips on how to complete this with something around my current skill set (i.e. I know that more skills would probably help). Is the lack of torps what is holding me back? Just how much harder do torps hit? Would a target painter help? I currently have cruise missiles trained to lvl 2...maybe that's not enough? Any help would be great.
DarkNemisis II	Posted - 2007.02.18 18:31:00 - [2] what about the rest of the missile skills such as warhead upgrades, what level do you have those at??
Shadow Grim	Posted - 2007.02.18 18:35:00 - [3] lvl 5 missile bombardment (free with this character type) lvl 1 projection lvl 2 Rapid Launch lvl 2 Navigation Prediction lvl 1 Warhead upgrades (though this is only a 2% increase per lvl right?) I thought training cruise up at a 5% increase per lvl would be more productive initially. Would torps have turned the tide?
Sandeep Raptus Regaliter	Posted - 2007.02.18 18:50:00 - [4] I just keep throwing torps at Rachen, and at one point he ran out of cap and did some stupid things (i.e. he approached me and stopped boosting). Then he pretty much instapopped by the 18 torps out there. Time spent: 20 minutes. No propulsion mods nor rigs. Torp lvl 1 all support skills lvl 3 Torp is really the way to kill battleships. ----- n-1. ??? n. Profit!
OozoO Caldari Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.18 19:32:00 - [5] me wants CNR too :( done the mission with the normal one 6x t2 siege does rachen pretty fast :)
Darc Ohn	Posted - 2007.02.18 19:53:00 - [6] First time i did this guy (few weeks ago), i thought i would never get thru his tank. My cruise missiles got him to 90%, and then he regenned back to full. While trying to figure out what to do, i just kept following him as he flew away from the "center". After a while he suddenly turned, i got into drone range and he went down fast. As someone else said, it might seem as if he stopped shieldboosting too at this point, because the difference was like night and day. So basically: If you are low on dps, just follow him untill he turns around and stops boosting.
Sandeep Raptus Regaliter	Posted - 2007.02.18 20:42:00 - [7] I think Darc and I forced Rachen out of NPC patrol range. Once out of patrol range, NPCs will stop whatever they are doing and concentrate only on getting back to their spawn point. Interesting side effect. ----- n-1. ??? n. Profit!
Kaptein Trefot	Posted - 2007.02.18 20:51:00 - [8] I assume its the Guristas version? The first time I did it I couldnt break his tank with cruise missiles. Had to train torp I and heavy drones I and fitted it with torps and 3 heavies. It took ages but I got him in the end. I also used and ab and cap booster (cargo full of 800s) to keep up with cap for the booster and tank. That was with a raven. Now I use a cnr (BS IV) with 7 dg launchers, cruise and all missile support skills to IV/V and it still takes around 40 volleys to get him down (3 bcus in low). Anoying fella he is.
Slayton Ford Caldari Kudzu Collective	Posted - 2007.02.18 20:53:00 - [9] The only time I did this I cleared everything unsing Cruise missles up to Rach. After that, I went back and refitted a AB and 6x torps. You only need a Large Booster w/ amp for her (if that). once refitting, I spent the 20min flying back through deadspace and killed her in about 8-10 min. If your low skilled, you need to use torpedoes on her to break the tank. Fitting 7x Torp launchers on a CNR may be tough, but running 3x BCU + either RCU or PDS to add more grid for them may work. If not, fit as many as you can and put cruise in the rest.
OozoO Caldari Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.18 21:16:00 - [10] as mentioned above I use tech2 launchers with standard torps having torp spec on 3 - I also use 2 BCU II. took me 19 volleys while he was still 50km away from me. he is hard but in a torp-raven its not a real problem. 20 minutes? thats crazy
Teesa	Posted - 2007.02.18 21:25:00 - [11] Originally by: OozoO as mentioned above I use tech2 launchers with standard torps having torp spec on 3 - I also use 2 BCU II. took me 19 volleys while he was still 50km away from me. he is hard but in a torp-raven its not a real problem. 20 minutes? thats crazy It really depends on skills. The other key on this one (if your low skilled) is to follow at under 5km. At that distance her defenders are useless. I had 2x Nos on her and just perma ran a large tech1 booster w/ amp. I did try w/ cruise and even once got her into armor but ran out of ammo....
Slayton Ford Caldari Kudzu Collective	Posted - 2007.02.18 21:26:00 - [12] Damned the alts...
Colomor	Posted - 2007.02.18 23:50:00 - [13] Edited by: Colomor on 18/02/2007 23:47:39 The key to Rachen, is to AB to him with 1000ms web him and stay with that range. The reason to web him is so he doesn't get out of his patrol range and get all warpy on you :) Once you are that close to him, as everybody says his defenders are useless. I usually launch my medium T2 hammerheads, and unload with my 7 arby cruise launchers. Takes about 13-14 volleys to kill him. Fairly easy once you are right on his behind. P.S If you are really as new as you say you are, you shouldn't be running missions in a CNR. That is just asking to lose almost a 1 billion isk ship. Get a regular raven.
Kery Nysell Caldari Nysell Incorporated	Posted - 2007.02.19 01:57:00 - [14] It really depends on your skills ... I can kill her in less than 2 minutes, with my Dominix and 5 T2 Wasps ...
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.02.19 04:29:00 - [15] Originally by: Shadow Grim lvl 5 missile bombardment (free with this character type) lvl 1 projection lvl 2 Rapid Launch lvl 2 Navigation Prediction lvl 1 Warhead upgrades (though this is only a 2% increase per lvl right?) I thought training cruise up at a 5% increase per lvl would be more productive initially. Would torps have turned the tide? This is your problem. You're missing a massive amount of dps from warhead upgrades, rapid launch, and not having t2 launchers with cruise missile spec. Easy 35-40% from those skills alone. Drone skills would boost a heck of a lot more. For the love of god get those missile skills to at least 3 if not 4 asap, 3 is a short train. You don't even have em to 2 which is a few hours. You're lucky not to lose your CNR with such horribly low skills. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Gee'Kin Tha Specialz	Posted - 2007.02.19 07:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Shadow Grim I am new to lvl 4 missions (I've only done about a half a dozen so far though I've had no problems up till now). Last night I got vengeance and cleared all the way to the 2.5mill BS. After reading some tips I flew back and re-fitted my CNR (no I'm not an ebay baby, I've just won 2 contests with Eve Radio and was able to get into one of these bad boys) for more damage...or at least what I thought would be more damage. Below was my fitting...mind you I'm only at 3.2 mill SP so far: 7x Cruise Arbys (I haven't trained trops yet...could this be the key for this mission?) 1x XL Booster, 2x Invul Fields, 1x Boost Amp, 1x webber, 1x AB 5x BCU I (yes I know about the stacking penalty but didn't know what else to use at the time) I have 3x CCC rigs if anyone was wondering. At anyrate, with this setup I used my AB to get in close, webbed him for less transversal velocity (I know I know it's a BS but I was hoping for any additional DPS I could squeeze). I sent in my 5x medium drones (I don't have much skill in drones yet but again I wanted anymore dps I could get). My kenetic cruise missiles were hitting the hardest at about 220 per hit. I was staggering my missiles for a better DPS spread and after 10 minutes he was still boosting up to almost 100% shields. I failed the mission due to time constraints. Can anyone give me more tips on how to complete this with something around my current skill set (i.e. I know that more skills would probably help). Is the lack of torps what is holding me back? Just how much harder do torps hit? Would a target painter help? I currently have cruise missiles trained to lvl 2...maybe that's not enough? Any help would be great. I think u miss some skills. Tho for 3.2 mill sp. Driving a CNR. u lucky boy. I got my first CNr @ 38 mill sp. 2.5 mill bs is pretty anoying. But it spawns damage so slow. I dont even notice him till i got all the other ships first. Just get more skilled in missle, go to t2 cruise spec. and add to lvl 5 caldari bs. Then you should have problem with that 2.5 mill rat bs. Or get go ganging to take that one out. --------------------------------------------> Plz tickle my brain. I wanna have a Brainfart ! -------------------------------------------->
Ralara Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.19 07:44:00 - [17] That rat is the hardest rat I've come across but it's easy to break the tank if you use torpedos. Tech 1 torps will do it - you may need to reload however. That particular rat likes to stay about 50km away from your ship. I once herded her into the station structure and she got stuck. I fired the last torpedo at 2000m away and felt pleased with myself as she popped :) nice bounty. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected])
Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org	Posted - 2007.02.19 08:20:00 - [18] Not much to be done about it other than get your skills up. The boss npc is hard when you are at low skill points, but quickly becomes quite manageable. I think it takes me something like 11 volleys of 1200mm to kill Draben, which I assume has a very similar tank. That's a touch under 80 seconds to pop this npc. First time I took the mission, it took me 8 refits, and 4 hours to work out a way to get enough dps up. So it does get better. Get your missile and ship skills to 4 each, and you will have no more trouble. Cruise or torp out of a Navy Raven with it's 7 launchers ought to do the trick just fine. J.A.F.O.
Bookmanx	Posted - 2007.02.19 10:32:00 - [19] I just did this one yesterday. Took forever. 6 Arby siege/LG booster II/3PDU2/2BC2/various hardeners. I would kill all the NPC's cept the towers (3 or 5 warp outs) then go back with an AB and get one or two per try. (tanking the BS) Once the Tower III's were gone I fit full Kinetic hardners and use a heavy NOS, AB, and webifier. Once I got close enough to web I was ok. The NOS kept me charged, the LG T2 booster kept shields up and my 5 med drones (T1) kept on her while I was popping juggernaut torps from 800m. Fight took forever. The best part : I went back to the agent to tell him I'm done and get another mission........... Vengance again. /cry
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:48:00 - [20] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 19/02/2007 11:51:04 Aside from getting your skills up (especially rapid launch), one thing you can immediately do is replacing your weak T1 BCUs with Pandemonium or Domination ones. Yes that costs a pretty penny, but I am sure your CNR cries everytime you undock it with T1 BCUs anyway :P And the added DPS (I would guess around 15% better if you replace all 5) might just be what you lack to break Rachen's tank, even with your poor skills. Keep in mind that if something tanks 300 dps, and you do 301 dps, a mere 10% increase in total dps is a 2900% increase in real dps. Small numbers can have big effects in EVE indeed. --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel
Inqy Caldari Drink Through It	Posted - 2007.02.19 13:30:00 - [21] Edited by: Inqy on 19/02/2007 13:30:42 the way I did it was with t2 cruise launchers and 2 hvy Nos E500s didnt take my rattler to long, used t1 ammo and 5 hammerhead II So try the Nos if you can other than that its a skill grind on missiles, but mem its a lot easier than the grind on turrets.
Arbenowskee Constructive Influence	Posted - 2007.02.19 13:52:00 - [22] well train for t2 BCUs first. then train for t2 launchers or/and rapid launch @ lvl 5 (and caldari bs at least lvl 4, 5 reccomended). u should blow him away easily then. oh, and 3x BCU II on low is enough for any mission. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sig too large. Maximum size 400x120 and 24000 bytes. -Oiri Yusko
kill0rbunny Caldari Chimera Intelligence Agency	Posted - 2007.02.19 14:06:00 - [23] Edited by: kill0rbunny on 19/02/2007 14:04:28 I kill all ships in the last stage of vengeance, then warp out, fit torps and 3 heavy drones with a drone link augmentor, come back and finish him. - I got a portrait now, wheeeee! \o/
Marquis Dean The last thing you'll ever see	Posted - 2007.02.19 14:07:00 - [24] Pfft, I ate this rat in less than 20 seconds. I used: Raven 6 x Limos Cruise Launchers w/Wrath 2 x Heavy Knaves 5 x Vespa I Abaddon 8 x Modulated Megabeam w/Ultraviolet 5 x Vespa II The key is to have an alt with 9 mil SP accompany you on all your missions ------ ------ Originally by: Crag Heyder I'm not talking FPS here, it's SPF.
Mortok Tristan	Posted - 2007.02.19 15:11:00 - [25] The trick is to use the right damage type, for the serpentis version i swith to thermal cruise missiles even if i was using kinetic missiles to kill the other serpentis ratz. and yes you need to train up skills that increase the dps of your cruise missiles, like the Cruise missile skill etc.. Alternatively you can also fit some of the +3% hardwirring implants to help you in the mean time until you got higher skills.
Dragon Lord Caldari Helion Production Labs	Posted - 2007.02.19 18:02:00 - [26] Edited by: Dragon Lord on 19/02/2007 18:02:28 Originally by: Kaptein Trefot I assume its the Guristas version? The first time I did it I couldnt break his tank with cruise missiles. Had to train torp I and heavy drones I and fitted it with torps and 3 heavies. It took ages but I got him in the end. I also used and ab and cap booster (cargo full of 800s) to keep up with cap for the booster and tank. That was with a raven. Now I use a cnr (BS IV) with 7 dg launchers, cruise and all missile support skills to IV/V and it still takes around 40 volleys to get him down (3 bcus in low). Anoying fella he is. hehe similar setup to me, i have a few implants as well, rof's down to 6.42s and im getting about 544hp dmg on hull, so he goes down but id still say it takes 15 vollys or so.
Kaptein Trefot	Posted - 2007.02.20 01:02:00 - [27] Originally by: Dragon Lord Edited by: Dragon Lord on 19/02/2007 18:02:28 Originally by: Kaptein Trefot I assume its the Guristas version? The first time I did it I couldnt break his tank with cruise missiles. Had to train torp I and heavy drones I and fitted it with torps and 3 heavies. It took ages but I got him in the end. I also used and ab and cap booster (cargo full of 800s) to keep up with cap for the booster and tank. That was with a raven. Now I use a cnr (BS IV) with 7 dg launchers, cruise and all missile support skills to IV/V and it still takes around 40 volleys to get him down (3 bcus in low). Anoying fella he is. hehe similar setup to me, i have a few implants as well, rof's down to 6.42s and im getting about 544hp dmg on hull, so he goes down but id still say it takes 15 vollys or so. Yeah I imagine he will pop pretty fast with BS, rof and cruise all to V but I started training other things when I could do missions reasonlbly fast. About 20% of the times I get him in 30 volleys but if I dont he will recharge close tot 50% of his shield while reloading so thats another 10-15 volleys. Next time I'll use a drone link aug and put my HH IIs on him too. Will prob get him in 30 or less most of the times than. I hope!
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.20 02:45:00 - [28] 6x Arbi cruise, AB, 2x BCSII, 1.2M SP in missiles, 5x vespa Is and a damage rig for missiles. The 2.5M BS rat at the end of vengeance takes 132 total wrath Cruise missiles to kill.
Tsoula Chimaera	Posted - 2007.02.20 10:51:00 - [29] As mentioned, it's all about skills....OR NUMBERS... Solo i pop him in 4 voleys max when using my machariel with T2 artilery, but that's not really fun...try gathering a group of 10-15 friends and go in bantam's....THAT's fun!!! The other post pics and a vid available how to down Rachen in a swarm of T1 frigates (mostly bantams)
Revan Crow Minmatar KraehenKlaue	Posted - 2007.02.20 11:10:00 - [30] doing the vengeance in the normal raven setup: 6x arbalest siege 1x drone argumentor (since he stays at 50km when i meet him) med : 2x kin 1 x thermal hardeners, boost amp, xlarge booster, heavy cap booster lows: 2x bcuII, 3x pduII the full torps setup combined with 5 vespaII kills him pretty softly with like only 3 reloads (lol) he boosts like a maniac untill you passed his shield (obvservation) so once youve got the shield down hes dead rather quick. skills : torps 4 all support skills 4 , cruise missie speced (gonna try one with the tech 2 cruises soon)
Spyres Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.20 11:38:00 - [31] Domi. 5 Wasps. 5 350 rails. Bye bye rat.
Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.20 16:17:00 - [32] Originally by: OozoO me wants CNR too :( Me had one and got it blowed up! ****ing warp scramblers! Anyway, they're over-rated. Stick to a standard raven.

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