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Jhon Kirk
Tempest Innovations
0
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Posted - 2016.04.23 15:05:02 -
[1] - Quote
Well this morning i watched the Stream from Fanfest 2016, and it was shared that Medium Citadels will no be able to fit the market Module. I agree with majority of this but for a smaller corp or group that causally plays to come up with 7 - 10 billion isk to afford the Large Citadel is to me a bit rough. To do this i would say maybe make a module that allows a limited Market in the Medium so we can actuall make a cash flow to be able to upgrade to a large. Anyone have any thoughts on this? |
Siigari Kitawa
Waking Dreams
410
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Posted - 2016.04.23 15:08:53 -
[2] - Quote
My thoughts are we knew about this for a long time, and if you want to band together with some other people to afford one, then you can do that.
Alternatively if you save up and have a plan for operation you can do that too. Or you can use somebody else's. Remember these are destroyable structures.
Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it.
Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else.
Ingame channel: PUSHX
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
242
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Posted - 2016.04.23 15:31:38 -
[3] - Quote
This is not news. It's been known for quite a while. |
Jhon Kirk
Tempest Innovations
0
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Posted - 2016.04.23 15:32:55 -
[4] - Quote
I guess i misread that, but still :S |
Daerrol
Death By Design
Did he say Jump
300
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Posted - 2016.04.23 16:13:38 -
[5] - Quote
No o9fenmse but if you cannot afford a 10bn citadel you can't afford to stock a market at all. |
Bobb Bobbington
Bros Before Holes
The Devils' Rejects
281
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Posted - 2016.04.23 23:23:25 -
[6] - Quote
Daerrol wrote:No o9fenmse but if you cannot afford a 10bn citadel you can't afford to stock a market at all.
That is completely wrong, I used to stock both a null market and a lowsec market with only 10bn. The lowsec one I covered all basic items and some ships, and the nullsec ones I filled gaps like rigs and such. It's quite easy to stock a lowsec market from the ground up with even 4bn as long as you don't go above cruiser size and don't bring in uselessly expensive stuff that won't sell.
This is a signature.
It has a 25m signature.
No it's not a cosmic signature.
Probably.
Btw my corp's recruiting.
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
246
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Posted - 2016.04.23 23:27:41 -
[7] - Quote
Jhon Kirk wrote:I guess i misread that, but still :S
But still what?
Complaining now, 3-4 days before release is way too late. You missed your opportunity to potentially impact the design.
However, every game mechanic has its limits. If you want a market, then find a way to build a large Citadel. |
Sequester Risalo
Semiki Minerals and Missiles Company Ltd.
193
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Posted - 2016.04.24 07:24:51 -
[8] - Quote
Why does everyone wish to put up a citadel and have a seperate market? There won't be enough customers to shop at the gazillion citadels being put up. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
9212
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Posted - 2016.04.24 07:30:26 -
[9] - Quote
There is a lot of shops in my town and only sometimes someone is shopping there. Also, I could not find the item I wanted. That is why we have Jita.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Second-Dawn
1347
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Posted - 2016.04.24 07:59:16 -
[10] - Quote
To be blunt this is a mistake by CCP, and I would love to know their reasons for this as I cannot logically see any, furthermore is it wrong to have lots of small markets setup all over the place. Didn't they realise that there was security in having large numbers of markets all over the place like a shoal of fish. Also an indy corp has to put all its eggs in one basket and can not fall back to a lessor citadel to keep at it, because of the current structure of hisec this decision makes it rather unlikely that any hisec entity will rise up and set up a market hub and that is the shame of it.
I became aware of this a couple of months back when I was de-subbed and said it was a bad decision on EN24 and it was not that long ago that this decision seems to have been made. It was not evident early when I participated on the forums in regards to citadels, because I was only ever aiming to build a medium one for market reasons.
This decision will not help create a new dynamic hisec, and they should rethink it. That being said I will look to support any hisec indy entity that wants to set up a large, I guess its time to try to form a hisec coalition...
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc.
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
718
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Posted - 2016.04.24 08:52:26 -
[11] - Quote
No, this decision is the right one imo. This isnt about mom and pop vs the big box stores as really in todays day and age a single person can get the Large citadel isk actually quite easily even if they are casual. Yup you will have to be smarter than the average bear but not by much imo. Yes this does price out the lil guys, but frankly no little guy should be looking at that sort of thing. Kinda like how not everyone that wants to set up a market in RL will or should.
And yes a lil late to the party. But thats okay too.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
5091
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Posted - 2016.04.24 09:00:43 -
[12] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:There is a lot of shops in my town and only sometimes someone is shopping there. Also, I could not find the item I wanted. That is why we have Jita.
But hey! If you are a trader in a Citadel, your market wares can be almost-destroyed until you pay a 10% tax and retrieve them from a random lowsec NPC station! (or may just wait until, and if, the owner of the Citadel builds another one in the same system). Surely that's an incentive enough to set up your shop in a Citadel rather than Jita! |
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
156
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Posted - 2016.04.24 09:07:59 -
[13] - Quote
Bobb Bobbington wrote:Daerrol wrote:No o9fenmse but if you cannot afford a 10bn citadel you can't afford to stock a market at all. That is completely wrong, I used to stock both a null market and a lowsec market with only 10bn. The lowsec one I covered all basic items and some ships, and the nullsec ones I filled gaps like rigs and such. It's quite easy to stock a lowsec market from the ground up with even 4bn as long as you don't go above cruiser size and don't bring in uselessly expensive stuff that won't sell.
I agree that you don't need huge capital to stock a market.
However, will other people want to invest in a citadel not owned/defended by a large entity? With good planning and dedication small corps can certainly find a niche with Citadels I'm sure, but to develop into anytjing like even a minor regional hub you'd need to earn public's 'perception' of stability/worthiness. This could be a challenge. Maybe not a financial challenge in terms of capitals required, but a small entity with such ambitions will have to play very good political/diplomatic game. I think it will be do-able, but not by a corp who's very casual about the game. |
Aiwha
Infinite Point
Violence of Action.
1141
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Posted - 2016.04.24 09:13:32 -
[14] - Quote
Medium Citadels are replacing POSes. Large citadels are replacing outposts. If you cannot afford to plant an outpost, you cannot afford a large citadel.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
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Shayla Etherodyne
United Nations Industrial Holdings
18
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Posted - 2016.04.24 09:48:20 -
[15] - Quote
Pookoko wrote:Bobb Bobbington wrote:Daerrol wrote:No o9fenmse but if you cannot afford a 10bn citadel you can't afford to stock a market at all. That is completely wrong, I used to stock both a null market and a lowsec market with only 10bn. The lowsec one I covered all basic items and some ships, and the nullsec ones I filled gaps like rigs and such. It's quite easy to stock a lowsec market from the ground up with even 4bn as long as you don't go above cruiser size and don't bring in uselessly expensive stuff that won't sell. I agree that you don't need huge capital to stock a market. However, will other people want to invest in a citadel not owned/defended by a large entity? With good planning and dedication small corps can certainly find a niche with Citadels I'm sure, but to develop into anytjing like even a minor regional hub you'd need to earn public's 'perception' of stability/worthiness. This could be a challenge. Maybe not a financial challenge in terms of capitals required, but a small entity with such ambitions will have to play very good political/diplomatic game. I think it will be do-able, but not by a corp who's very casual about the game.
The problem is exactly that: CCP is gifting a few large alliances with a cash cow and several permanent wars in high sec.
All the other players will be gifted with higher prices, higher isk sinks (taxes will increase everywhere and the broker fee in NPC stations will increase) and higher risk.
It is a move that will befit the usual group of players. The others will adapt, but I doubbt they will enjoy it much. |
Garnoo
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
193
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Posted - 2016.04.24 10:03:04 -
[16] - Quote
large citadel isnt for " for a smaller corp or group that causally plays"...
People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back --á EvE
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
9214
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Posted - 2016.04.24 10:26:14 -
[17] - Quote
Garnoo wrote:large citadel isnt for " for a smaller corp or group that causally plays"...
Medium citadel could have had a market module, but CCP want you to use large, because its like they designed it. There was nothing holding them. They just wanted to have progression in function for some unknown reason.
I would gladly set up a hot dog stand on the asteroid nearby, just for few ISK more, and to break the natural scenery with homely feeling of a human built structure.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
17697
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Posted - 2016.04.24 13:36:49 -
[18] - Quote
Jhon Kirk wrote:Well this morning i watched the Stream from Fanfest 2016, and it was shared that Medium Citadels will no be able to fit the market Module. I agree with majority of this but for a smaller corp or group that causally plays to come up with 7 - 10 billion isk to afford the Large Citadel is to me a bit rough. To do this i would say maybe make a module that allows a limited Market in the Medium so we can actuall make a cash flow to be able to upgrade to a large. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
A medium citadel is the equivalent of a POS. Who'd put their goods up for sale and leave them in a destructible structure owned by a group that can't even afford a large?
Especially when there are plenty of groups that can afford bigger citadels and will also be competing for those sweet, sweet transaction taxes?
tl;dr: your expectations were extremely unrealistic.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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PAPULA
Black Aces
I N F A M O U S
96
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Posted - 2016.04.24 15:36:52 -
[19] - Quote
Yea this is true, from sisi logs:
15:36:24NotifyYou can't fit Standup Market Hub I to Astrahus
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Hound Halfhand
Repo Industries
28
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Posted - 2016.04.24 21:55:24 -
[20] - Quote
Is the OP trolling us?
First of all who doesn't have 10 bil lying around at this point. Large alliances really?
Second, you really want the large to have all the functionality of the medium for the 10th of the price? Then why would someone pay the larger amount?
I bet the OP will be back on this forums the minute someone hires the Marmites to burn it down, claiming his medium needs more tank and gank. About the same amount as the large citadel, just at a tenth of the cost. |
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ArmEagle Kusoni
Knights of Nii
The 20 Minuters
44
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Posted - 2016.04.25 21:00:17 -
[21] - Quote
The 10bil for the Fortizar is probably less of an issue than the fuel you need to pay for starting and keeping the market service. That's at the fuel cost of a large POS; around 600million ISK per 30 days.
That for just trades inside the corp/alliance is quite expensive. Even if you would have paid that in the past just to keep the POS shield up. |
Ortus Maleficus
Lambent Enterprises
34
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Posted - 2016.04.26 05:06:39 -
[22] - Quote
I understand what you all are saying about market seeding and such, but a market module would be very handy for wormhole corps, just so we could buy loot from members or what not.
What about a buy-order-only version for mediums? |
Ortus Maleficus
Lambent Enterprises
34
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Posted - 2016.04.26 05:07:45 -
[23] - Quote
double post |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Second-Dawn
1353
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Posted - 2016.04.26 05:41:30 -
[24] - Quote
First of all a Medium Citadel is not replacing a POS, anyone saying that is being disingenuous, a Citadel is a Citadel simple as, there are going to be structures for production and research, there are also going to be specifc structures for moon mining and miners.
I had the hope of sticking a number of Medium's in a system in NPC 0.0 which does not hav e a station and using it as a base as well as setting up a market for my allies. Same goes for WH corps, who could have their own market, but no, also small indy corps would have something to steup and defend which had a limited vulnerability against war decs in terms of its vulnerability, but again no.
Citadels had the possibility of transforming hisec, they still do, what I wanted to push was getting a coalition of hisec corps and alliances together to make and use a XL citadel, but with that idea all of the smaller entities could have placed multiple Mediums around it to get their stuff. CCP come on think it through, do you want casual players to aim for something or not?
As for claiming Marmite will come and wreck it, they spend all their time in Udema and had a policy of never shooting large POS's, seriously, a lot of these Merc alliances will not attack a large POS, and a Medium Citadel would be like that, furthermore it would enable the defenders to have a force balancer. Step back now and ask yourself, why would a corp in hisec build a Medium now apart from indy, research or waving their dangly thing, they might as stick with a POS which they can pull down before the war dec until the new structures turn up.
I would have a smaller market module with a limited amount of orders and limited fuel costs, the objective is not to give a full market, but to have a corp market or small alliance market, this would have been something that may have increased the size of hisec corps, ok well back to one man and npc corps then, nothing to see here., such a shame.
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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ImYourMom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
110
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Posted - 2016.04.26 06:18:17 -
[25] - Quote
quick one do you have to stock the market yourself or is it like a npc station market? |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Second-Dawn
1353
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Posted - 2016.04.26 06:35:46 -
[26] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:quick one do you have to stock the market yourself or is it like a npc station market?
The thing is that it would be stocked by the people who you allowed to use it, it would also be used by people that you allowed to buy and sell. That means in my NPC 0.0 area I could have setup a discounted market for my allies and not supply my enemies with cheap modules or the opportunity to profit out of my good intentions. It is a pity, for example a certain person is trying again in Stain, he would have a better chance of doing what he wants if he could control his market in a Citadel, he could run a Medium but a Large is not possible for him.
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
69
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Posted - 2016.04.26 15:06:02 -
[27] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:quick one do you have to stock the market yourself or is it like a npc station market?
Who do you think stocks NPC station markets?
Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
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ImYourMom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
110
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Posted - 2016.04.26 19:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:ImYourMom wrote:quick one do you have to stock the market yourself or is it like a npc station market? Who do you think stocks NPC station markets?
i thought some but not all were automatically seeded with some supplies |
Shayla Etherodyne
United Nations Industrial Holdings
27
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Posted - 2016.04.26 19:07:30 -
[29] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:ImYourMom wrote:quick one do you have to stock the market yourself or is it like a npc station market? Who do you think stocks NPC station markets?
All the stuff that has more that has a expiry date longer than 90 days is stocked by CCP.
Nowadays it is only BPO, PI command centers and skillbooks, I think. They can be resold by players to players in different stations.
There are NPC buy orders for some stuff too: trade goods (Amarr civil service bureaustations buy slaves, as an example), overseer personal effects (CONCORD) and so on.
ImYourMom wrote:
i thought some but not all were automatically seeded with some supplies
That was a long time ago. i still recall the day when there were 999.999 exequror on sale for 99.9999 days in all stations. 
But at that time we still had NPC minerals buy orders.
- * - * -
A question about markets.
What happen if the citadel owner shut down the market module?
Let's say he has overestimated his ability to get the fuel, or need the resources for attack and defense during a war, so he shut down the market module but the citadel isn't destroyed.
The orders are cancelled and the stuff go in the players hangars?
or
The orders are frozen until the timer count down to zero and then the stuff go to the plaeyr hangar?
or
The order are frozen and stay there forever until the module is reactivated?
In the past people had the same problem with POS laboratory modules, with research slots being frozen forever until you opened a support ticket. |
Joanna RB
Twenty Questions
RAZOR Alliance
28
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Posted - 2016.04.26 22:45:35 -
[30] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Garnoo wrote:large citadel isnt for " for a smaller corp or group that causally plays"...
Medium citadel could have had a market module, but CCP want you to use large, because its like they designed it. There was nothing holding them. They just wanted to have progression in function for some unknown reason. I would gladly set up a hot dog stand on the asteroid nearby, just for few ISK more, and to break the natural scenery with homely feeling of a human built structure.
The problem is, this is EVE, not the real world. In the real world, people would purchase your hot dogs with cash. In EVE, for every person willing to to buy the hot dog with cash, there are 1000 whos method of 'purchase' would be the business end of thier rack of 1400mm arties. |
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