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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.18 23:53:00 -
[1]
The last few weeks have been hard on many of us. As most of you are no doubt aware the legendary freedom fighter and leader of The Defiants, Karishal Muritor, was slain under a flag of truce by Republic Fleet forces. In the wake of this the grief and outrage at this act have been clear both amongst the freedom fighter community and at marches held by citizens of the Republic.
The Ushra'Khan urged the citizens of the Republic to seek a diplomatic end to this crisis and call for a new leadership to be chosen. This call has been made both by the general populace and Republican paramilitaries. We thank you for this. Some elements within the current regime have stated that pressure from minority groups will not sway the Parliament. If the citizens marching in the streets and at the vigils are indeed only a minority then there can be nothing to fear from giving them a chance to speak. We look forward to the peoples voices being heard with great anticipation.
As we are often reminded we are not part of the Republic. This is true and we do not expect any part in the selection process. We wish only for the people living in the Republic, many of whom we freed and sent there, to have a say in how they are represented. It has also been said that as outsiders to the Republic we have no right to comment on or concern ourselves with it's internal workings. The moment the Republic leadership gave to order to start shooting freedom fighters the internal working of the Republic became of great concern to us. There is no action without reaction.
Although the Republic Fleet broke a banner of truce to assassinate one of our greatest warriors we do not blame them. The Fleet, unlike the paramilitaries, is merely a tool in the hands of corrupt leaders. One does not blame the gun but rather the hand that holds it. The full responsibility for this act we lay at the feet of Karin Midular. The bounty of one kredit will remain on her head. Midular has a long history of putting the interests of the Amarr above those of the tribes. Karin Midular and any Republican paramilitaries that continue to hunt The Defiants will be regarded by the Ushra'Khan as enemies of our people.
Once our period of mourning has ended we would hope we are able to return the body of Karishal Muritor to the Republic for the burial rites. It was his wish and the wish of all who served with him. We await a response from the Republic in this matter. We have no hostile intent however due the Republic's recent track record in honouring banners of truce we will escort the body with a fully combat ready force. This is purely for our defence.
Any civilians who wish to return with us to the Providence colonies are welcome to do so. Priority will be given to those the current regime has labelled as 'separatists' and 'dissidents' since the threat of persecution is greatest for them.
The actions of the Republic will be viewed with great interest and scrutiny over the coming weeks.
>> RECRUITING << |
Kaleigh Doyle
Bloodveil
The Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2007.02.19 03:54:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Kaleigh Doyle on 19/02/2007 03:51:18
Karin Midular has betrayed your people and dishonored her tribe. Judging by her apathetic response to the needs of their citizens, it leads one to wonder if anyone would stop an organization from sending in a fleet to claim the bounty on her head for themselves? Those still loyal have an opportunity to revive the Republic for honorable Minmatar and all those still enslaved in the Empire.
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Darius Shakor
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.19 11:54:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle
Edited by: Kaleigh Doyle on 19/02/2007 03:51:18Those still loyal have an opportunity to revive the Republic for honorable Minmatar and all those still enslaved in the Empire.
Yet those that advertise themselves as 'loyal' cling to the leader of the Republic as though she were the very embodiment of the Republic itself. And that somehow supporting her will keep the Republic alive. Their loyalty is misplaced in a person that has little competence in her position instead of being loyal to the position itself.
Midular has strided from one bad decision to another in her government, and regardles of people saying she has to tread carefully to avoid plunging us into war, she has not made any headway worthy of notice in her cautious movements.
People that think her way is better than fighting and that it could only be one or the other are wrong in their beliefs. Midular does not even achieve the levels of what the loyalists view as 'her way' as she consistantly falls way short of the mark. The Minmatar people in the Republic deserve no less than someone that does not fall short of that mark.
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Shakor Clan Information Portal |
Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.02.19 14:45:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Once our period of mourning has ended we would hope we are able to return the body of Karishal Muritor to the Republic for the burial rites. It was his wish and the wish of all who served with him. We await a response from the Republic in this matter. We have no hostile intent however due the Republic's recent track record in honouring banners of truce we will escort the body with a fully combat ready force. This is purely for our defence.
Even former-Admiral Filmir added his voice to the call that Muritor's body be allowed home to be buried with full honours. EM would also like to provide ships for the escort. We do not expect Fleet to oppose the burial, but as we saw at the rally in Pator, there are many who would use such an occassion to pursue their own vendettas against participating pilots and organisations, and we will offer whatever protection we may to any Matari who wishes to pay his or her last respects, and to Captain Muritor's body until such a time as it is laid to rest.
With faith in the future,
-Eva-
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc |
Pezzle
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.19 14:58:00 -
[5]
I am not interested in derailing this discussion, but one point needs to be made. Those of the Minmatar who would move to Providence should be prepared to obey Imperial law. The CVA will not harm neutral parties. Those who assist Ushra Khan in rebellion will be treated as one of their number and harmed.
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Darius Shakor
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.19 16:09:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Evanda Char
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Once our period of mourning has ended we would hope we are able to return the body of Karishal Muritor to the Republic for the burial rites. It was his wish and the wish of all who served with him. We await a response from the Republic in this matter. We have no hostile intent however due the Republic's recent track record in honouring banners of truce we will escort the body with a fully combat ready force. This is purely for our defence.
Even former-Admiral Filmir added his voice to the call that Muritor's body be allowed home to be buried with full honours. EM would also like to provide ships for the escort. We do not expect Fleet to oppose the burial, but as we saw at the rally in Pator, there are many who would use such an occassion to pursue their own vendettas against participating pilots and organisations, and we will offer whatever protection we may to any Matari who wishes to pay his or her last respects, and to Captain Muritor's body until such a time as it is laid to rest.
With faith in the future,
-Eva-
That is much appreciated sister.
------
Shakor Clan Information Portal |
Ariet Toridor
Minmatar
Republic Parliament
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Posted - 2007.02.19 16:35:00 -
[7]
You come here with one hand raised threatening us and the other outstretched demanding from us.
The parliament does not respond to requests from organizations who call themselves freedom fighters but are acting more and more like terrorist organizations who threaten the very fabric of the Republic.
Ushra'Khan was once something to respect for many, it has fallen far. Your hostile nature towards the Republic makes you unwelcome.
Request Denied.
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Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.19 16:56:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Hardin on 19/02/2007 16:55:38
Originally by: Ariet Toridor
The parliament does not respond to requests from organizations who call themselves freedom fighters but are acting more and more like terrorist organizations...
Glad you have finally caught on to our way of thinking...
Originally by: Ariet Toridor
...who threaten the very fabric of the Republic.
Oh so it is only now they threaten the Republic that they have become terrorists?
Ushra'Khan has slaughtered countless innocent Amarrians. They are barbaric heathens who deserve to be put down like the rabid dogs that they are and The Republic should be ashamed that its has sheltered and protected them for so long.
I expect to see Ushra'Khan pilots made KOS to the Republic fleet and prohibited from travelling in Republic space immediately.
If you take this action then maybe I will share some secrets of how to kill these terrorists with your pilots...
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CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607
AMARR VICTOR |
Occasus Vim
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.19 17:11:00 -
[9]
I don't remember the Republic ever sheltering us.
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Occasus Vim
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.19 17:21:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ariet Toridor
You come here with one hand raised threatening us and the other outstretched demanding from us.
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
We have no hostile intent however due the Republic's recent track record in honouring banners of truce we will escort the body with a fully combat ready force. This is purely for our defence.
Emphasis added.
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Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.19 17:25:00 -
[11]
Tell that to the Republic agents giving Ushra'Khan gainful employment in Rens and elsewhere throughout the Republic...
------------------------------
CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607
AMARR VICTOR |
Occasus Vim
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.19 17:29:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hardin
Tell that to the Republic agents giving Ushra'Khan gainful employment in Rens and elsewhere throughout the Republic...
If that constitutes 'sheltering and protecting' us, then the Republic shelters and protects Amarr loyalists, known pirates, and many other sorts as well. I think your conclusion is a little bit of a leap.
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Sapphrine
Kinda'Shujaa
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.19 18:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ariet Toridor
You come here with one hand raised threatening us and the other outstretched demanding from us.
The parliament does not respond to requests from organizations who call themselves freedom fighters but are acting more and more like terrorist organizations who threaten the very fabric of the Republic.
Ushra'Khan was once something to respect for many, it has fallen far. Your hostile nature towards the Republic makes you unwelcome.
Request Denied.
Just so we're clear about the lack of honour left in the Republic leadership, this is the official response of the Republic to the request that a member of the republic and a decorated officer of the fleet be returned to his home for burial? I'm aware that you consider him a traitor of course and stripped him of his title but did you also strip him of matari heritage?
To further clarify, the Defiants requested that his body be buried as requested. As those entrusted with the body we are attempting to carry out that request. Are you simply saying no because you dislike the fact we disagree with you and are still willing to fight for our cause instead of just rolling over and asking the Empire to... how should i put this... have their way with us?
I honestly didn't think the republic could sink lower that breaching a flag of truce and murdering one of their own for fear of angering the Amarr but I seem to be being proved wrong. It is a sad day.
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.02.19 18:18:00 -
[14]
The Republic was always a grotesque joke: a misbegotten hybrid of Gallente paternalism and the worst authoritarian instincts of the Minmatar politicians who rose within it like a scum to the surface of a foetid pond. Now it is become an obscenity that assassinates the heroes of its people and vilely refuses to honour their last wishes.
The machine that is the Republic is concerned only with the perpetuation of its own existence. Considerations such as honour, freedom or even the well-being of the people who live within the system itself are entirely irrelevent to it. Those who oil the mechanism with lies and blandishments will happily betray those who fight for freedom. To feed others into the furnace of 'good government', that they may keep their station and perquisites, is no difficulty for them; it causes them no twinge of conscience, for all self-respect has long since fled from them. Their energies are now bent to the desperate task of maintaining a corroded and failing apparatus. It is a machine that may once have had a purpose beyond its mere existence; that may once have produced something good and useful. Now it merely eats the energy of others and belches out an effluent of waste and misery and indifference.
No government is interested in the freedom of the people it purports to represent, for if they were truly free they would have no need of government.
I salute and support the fighters of the Ushra'Khan, Fimbulwinter and all others who would fight for freedom without compromise.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Recruitment |
Darius Shakor
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.19 18:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ariet Toridor
You come here with one hand raised threatening us and the other outstretched demanding from us.
The parliament does not respond to requests from organizations who call themselves freedom fighters but are acting more and more like terrorist organizations who threaten the very fabric of the Republic.
Ushra'Khan was once something to respect for many, it has fallen far. Your hostile nature towards the Republic makes you unwelcome.
Request Denied.
Then it is true. The Republic is now only for itself and not all Minmatar. All you do care about is being in power and not using it in a competent way.
This is the kind of sentiment I have warned people against, and now it seems it is indeed rife within the Republic ranks of Parliament too. With people like this in government and speaking for them it is clear that most have forgotten what it is to be Minmatar.
And viewing Hardin's posts here, it is no surprise that an Amarrian would make an effort to make this all about them as well as think they have more right to impose demands on the Republic than they think we do. And if the Republic takes up that demand then it is just one more reason why we should continue to shout in anger at the leaders because they will have bent over backwards for the Amarr once more with no headway made to better the lives of their own people in the process.
------
Shakor Clan Information Portal |
Wanoah
Minmatar
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.19 19:38:00 -
[16]
Governments should be afraid of their people, not the other way round.
If I try to enter Republic space, will the Fleet be ordered to fire at me now? If, as a citizen of the Republic still, I decide to walk freely upon the surface of Matar, or conduct my legitimate business at a station, should I expect a knife in my back? Or a phased plasma round to take my head off? Just how unwelcome should I expect to be made?
It grieves me to see our brave and free peoples represented by such spineless cowards and murderers. The Matari people deserve better than this.
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Darius Shakor
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.19 19:56:00 -
[17]
Brother, if that is going to be the case then they will prove without a doubt the very concern against the government that I raised at the protest rally. That was that if the Fleet is to be used as a tool of the politicians to quell anything they see as threatening to the Republic and its dealings with the Amarr or other governments, and be ordered to shoot people to put a stop to it, then we are taking the first step towards a dictatorship and oppression akin to that of the Amarr. If it worked against Karishal then why not target other people next?
At the very least I do not feel it will come to that, but the reaction from the Republic here today and the blatant disrespect shown to Karishal does not give me hope for the future.
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Shakor Clan Information Portal |
Ugleb
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.19 20:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ariet Toridor
Ushra'Khan was once something to respect for many, it has fallen far. Your hostile nature towards the Republic makes you unwelcome.
Request Denied.
Then we shall hold Karishal Muritor's remains in trust until the day comes that the politicians remember how to honour the fallen. Karishal laid down his life for his beliefs and in defence of the ideals of freedom. Freedom not just for the fortunate, but for all those less fortunate than we who were born within the safety of Republic borders.
Until the day comes when the people decide that they will no longer stay silent we shall stand watch.
And know this, Ariet Toridor; the day the Amarr once again descend upon the people of the Republic in their Reclaiming you will see where my loyalties lie. Mine and all those who think as I do, as Karishal did.
On that dark day you will see the light and will know the truth. And on that day we shall return home.
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Neuromandis
EPSILON TEAM
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.19 21:22:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Neuromandis on 19/02/2007 21:20:03
Originally by: Ariet Toridor
You come here with one hand raised threatening us and the other outstretched demanding from us.
The parliament does not respond to requests from organizations who call themselves freedom fighters but are acting more and more like terrorist organizations who threaten the very fabric of the Republic.
Ushra'Khan was once something to respect for many, it has fallen far. Your hostile nature towards the Republic makes you unwelcome.
Request Denied.
That is indeed a sad day for the Republic.
It remains to be seen if it is also a sad day for the Minmatar.
I hope this sheds a new light on recent events.
Still, I wish to thank you
Thank you for showing us how you can disguise rights as demands.
Thank you for showing us how you can disguise defense as threats.
Thank you for showing us how you can disguise those who would free the still enslaved Minmatar and defend their borders as terrorists.
Thank you for showing us how you can disguise contempt towards the Parliament's leader's dishonor as hostility to the republic.
Thank you for clearing my doubts, MP Toridor.
For I now *KNOW* you for who and what you are.
I hope others do as well.
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Karn Mithralia
Minmatar
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.19 21:52:00 -
[20]
Bah, bloody politicians!
Is there a member of the Republic Fleet who would stand up and accept Karishals body from us?
-----------------------------------------
Now recruiting. |
Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.20 02:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ariet Toridor
You come here with one hand raised threatening us and the other outstretched demanding from us.
The parliament does not respond to requests from organizations who call themselves freedom fighters but are acting more and more like terrorist organizations who threaten the very fabric of the Republic.
Ushra'Khan was once something to respect for many, it has fallen far. Your hostile nature towards the Republic makes you unwelcome.
Request Denied.
You shoot our brothers under a flag of truce and call us terrorists. You sound like your Amarrian masters more and more each day. Why don't you just become part of the Mandate and have done with it?
You have no honour. You envy Karishal because he was a true Matari warrior, something you will never be. Out of spite you will not let a fallen brother be returned to the homeland. You disgust me. He is dead, you have killed him. Why are you still so afraid of him. We will hold Karishal's body in trust until his kin decide what should be done.
Some of my Brothers consider themselves citizens still. I however am done with you. Deny me docking rights if you want. Shoot at me if you want. I don't care. The Republic still shelters slavers and enemies of the Ushra'Khan and I will not stop hunting them there because I am 'unwelcome'.
Your regime has failed Midular. You have led the Republic into darkness. Your people and the paramilitaries loyal to you have called for new leadership. Will you submit to the will of the people or cast them out as well?
>> RECRUITING << |
Rocius
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.20 04:21:00 -
[22]
Well....
Its about time a true not just loud voice of the people of the Republic spoke up. I am glad to finaly see a member of Parliment get fed up enough with the constant brow beating to speak up. For all the high talk from many members of U'K on how much the Republic is turning into "amarrian puppets" or what ever the hell it is they seem to think, they seem to follow their own personal adgendas and truths along the same lines that their supposed enemies do. Think what we think, say what we say, or your bad too. Bah, I have had enough with the vocal minority beating their chests about publicly. Loud does not make right. I am tired of publicly stateing time and again, what U'K does OUT THERE is good work, only to have to hear them spit this way at every turn. Yep, loyal to the people huh... stay out there in your own little "empire" and watch over your own collective butts. Frankly, I have had enough of the constant negative barrage from U'K. I would bet that the esteemed member of Parliment here, represents FAR FAR more people than the U'K does. I am sure that over 16 years in office is a testament to the fact that she is well liked by her constituents. Tell me Thrace.... how many People have elected to have you speak on their behalf?
*sighs*
I would respectfully ask, that the body of Karishal be turned over to a rational and calm party for a return home, so that he may be laid to rest at the place of his choosing. What he did was wrong, but he still deserves the right to be brought home.
I would choose Electus Matari to head this operation myself. That of course would be their call if they would be willing to undertake this task. I would expect that a truly loyal group such as them, would be granted this right. I will be sure to pass the word along to my elected officials for such a request as well.
Rocius
CEO, Gradient |
Michael Bross
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Posted - 2007.02.20 04:22:00 -
[23]
All right boys and girls. Tables are open, place your bets. Now that members of Amarrian Paramilitary organisations have called for the Republic fleet to fire on Ushra'Khan ships; how long do you think it will take Midular to cave to their demands? I guess I'll just have to wait and I'll soon find out when I get locked by 6 Fleet Tempests while a truce is in effect.
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Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.02.20 06:02:00 -
[24]
Ushra? We will carry him if you wish it.
MP Toridor, would Parliament have any objections to EM performing such a duty?
-Eva-
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc |
Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.20 07:51:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Rocius
Well....
Its about time a true not just loud voice of the people of the Republic spoke up....For all the high talk from many members of U'K on how much the Republic is turning into "amarrian puppets" or what ever the hell it is they seem to think, they seem to follow their own personal adgendas and truths along the same lines that their supposed enemies do. Think what we think, say what we say, or your bad too.
What we think has been made perfectly clear. Of course we follow our agenda. Unlike the Republic we don't give over our freedom to follow anothers agenda.
We seek to free our people and end slavery. Stand in the way of that and you are an enemy of freedom. Shooting freedom fighters, especially high ranking commanders, is standing in the way of our cause.
If that is too high spoken for you try this. Freedom fighters good, slavers bad. People who help freedom fighters good. People who help slavers bad.
I can draw a picture if you think it would help.
Originally by: Rocius
... Bah, I have had enough with the vocal minority beating their chests about publicly. Loud does not make right. I am tired of publicly stateing time and again, what U'K does OUT THERE is good work, only to have to hear them spit this way at every turn. Yep, loyal to the people huh... stay out there in your own little "empire" and watch over your own collective butts...
You do not dictate when or where free men & women may speak. Loud does not make right. Majority representation does and that is what the people have asked for. I hope they get it, unlike us they can be a truly nasty bunch if they are ignored too long. The Republic is there to serve them, it sounds like the Republic has forgotten that.
If you think what we do is good work then do not support those that would kill off the very warriors doing that work. We seek to free our people. I know how self serving you are so I know this is hard to grasp but our cause does not call the Ushra'Khan to quietly guard our backsides.
Originally by: Rocius
... Frankly, I have had enough of the constant negative barrage from U'K. I would bet that the esteemed member of Parliment here, represents FAR FAR more people than the U'K does. I am sure that over 16 years in office is a testament to the fact that she is well liked by her constituents. Tell me Thrace.... how many People have elected to have you speak on their behalf?
*sighs*...
Frankly I don't care in the slightest what you have had enough of. It is of no relevance how many more people than the Ushra'Khan that stylus pusher repesents. I does not matter if he is liked byhis constituents or if he crushes them under heavy taxes and punative laws. None of that is relevant to this matter.
We urged the citizens of the Republic to call for new leaders to be chosen. They have. If the Republic is not the dictatorship it appears to be that call will be granted and the peoples voices shall be heard. The rest is up to the people. They will have to live with the leaders they choose for some time and will have to live with whatever course those leaders take but it will be their choice.
As for me a few hundred support that statement up there by Council proxy. I am not near to a Neocom to check the exact number.
Originally by: Rocius
... I would respectfully ask, that the body of Karishal be turned over to a rational and calm party for a return home, so that he may be laid to rest at the place of his choosing. What he did was wrong, but he still deserves the right to be brought home.
I would choose Electus Matari to head this operation myself....
We have been charged by the Defiants to keep his body in trust until we can take his body home. Since the Republic does not have the dignity to grant that request we will await further instructions from the Defiants.
In short, request denied.
>> RECRUITING << |
tarifa
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Posted - 2007.02.20 10:38:00 -
[26]
looks like that we all pod pilots have to update our clones asap
Who knows mayby tomorrow The Republic Fleet will decide to shoot on us too.
misbelief for our leadership is growing among us.....
dark period is coming , unless we do something about it and change that.
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Neuromandis
EPSILON TEAM
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.20 10:48:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Neuromandis on 20/02/2007 10:45:52
Originally by: Rocius
**galnet removes part for space**
I would respectfully ask, that the body of Karishal be turned over to a rational and calm party for a return home, so that he may be laid to rest at the place of his choosing. What he did was wrong, but he still deserves the right to be brought home.
I would choose Electus Matari to head this operation myself. That of course would be their call if they would be willing to undertake this task. I would expect that a truly loyal group such as them, would be granted this right. I will be sure to pass the word along to my elected officials for such a request as well.
Rocius, I do not clearly what your exact point is. Unless I am missing some really important fact, Ushra'Khan may or may not be shunned or voiced down for its actions by the amarr, the ammatar, the republic, but as an alliance we are not yet outlawed. I suppose some of us may even be unwelcome to land on a planet, but that is at the moment irrelevant.
If we want, we may all get into battleships and head outside Pator. In fact, we usually do for varieties of reason. In fact, last time I checked, a LOT of capsuleers take there battleships and do that to shop, hunt pirates, run missions FOR the republic. Fact is, many of us visit republic solar systems in force anyway, and the republic has yet to deny us that right
That means, the only part of the Parliament Member's communication with a tie to reality, is that he denied Karishal's request for burial in the republic. Who takes him there is unimportant except if he is a declared outlaw to the republic.
It is irrational to say that another party would take the body home, because Ushra'Khan has not to this day been denied to enter the republic. Even if the Member of the Parliament SAID so, it would still not be the case until the Republic decided that it was the case and instruct police officials to set Ushra'Khan to criminal status regarding the republic.
So, we can go all together shopping in our warships but we cannot bring the body of Karishak with us? It is not for you or the MP to decide where the Ushra'Khan can and cannot go. That part was not a request, we go where we please unless *the republic* sees fit to outlaw us. The request was to allow for the burial of Karishal. To be honest, even that part I do not think is withing the Parliament's right to deny - of course on that part I could be wrong, I am a scientist, not a lawyer.
Rocius, I urge you to once more think on what the Member of the Parliament is implying here. As a demonstrated, his answer is dictatorial in that he denies two "requests" that, in fact, are rights - Ushra'Khan's military presence in the republic is still completely legal, and it is Karishal's right, criminal or no criminal, outlaw or not outlaw, to be buried according to the rites of his tribe.
Except if I am not mistaken and you feed your criminals tothe dogs instead of burying them when they die.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.20 11:58:00 -
[28]
I cannot say I personally can agree with this denial. I feel that every Matari person, no matter what his past deeds, deserves the right to return home when they wish to do so peacefully - even if that happens only after their permanent death, even if it happens only with the help of those who still do not wish to return.
I understand the sentiment of the parliament representative. I understand the anger against those who have abandoned us and continue to endanger us with their recklessness and - but we are talking about the burial of a once great man, a hero to us all, even if for different reasons. We have already lost so much over Karishal Muritor; do we have to sacrifice even what little unity our pilots have left over this?
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Darius Shakor
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.20 11:58:00 -
[29]
And yet again we see a loyalist trying to tell us to be silent because they think we are a minority voice.
Have you even noticed that there are demonstrations being held across the Republic? Do you know for a true and hard fact that we are a minority? Do you have in front of you right this moment officially statistics on how many Minmatars support what we say? Of course you do not, because such information is not easy or quick to gather short of sending people door to door in the Republic and asking their opinions.
And yet again, I will argue that even if we are a minority as you percieve that does not make our arguments fundimentally wrong. Even if we are a minority it does not mean that we have no right to speak.
And every time I see this blatant superiorist attitude and blind loyalty you remind me more of the Amarr with each passing minute. If you want to follow without question then do so. I hope you Republic does not lead you and the people in it into a dictatorship where civil liberties are few and far between, and all the while you and your people act like it is right because you are loyal.
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Shakor Clan Information Portal |
Tar Kovsky
Minmatar
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.20 14:02:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ariet Toridor
You come here with one hand raised threatening us and the other outstretched demanding from us.
"Demand?" Our request was made out of courtesy and a lingering feeling of respect that some of us still have for the Republic and its institutions -- no matter what we may feel about certain individuals in positions of power. Given the ease with which slavers penetrate your borders, we certainly don't think that your permission is strictly necessary to come and go.
It seems clear to me now that it's not just particular leaders but the entire system that's corrupt and in need of replacement.
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CHoKeD
Minmatar
Caffeine Commodities Company
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Posted - 2007.02.20 14:22:00 -
[31]
Edited by: CHoKeD on 20/02/2007 14:24:15
Originally by: Darius Shakor
Originally by: Ariet Toridor
You come here with one hand raised threatening us and the other outstretched demanding from us.
The parliament does not respond to requests from organizations who call themselves freedom fighters but are acting more and more like terrorist organizations who threaten the very fabric of the Republic.
Ushra'Khan was once something to respect for many, it has fallen far. Your hostile nature towards the Republic makes you unwelcome.
Request Denied.
Then it is true. The Republic is now only for itself and not all Minmatar. All you do care about is being in power and not using it in a competent way.
This is the kind of sentiment I have warned people against, and now it seems it is indeed rife within the Republic ranks of Parliament too. With people like this in government and speaking for them it is clear that most have forgotten what it is to be Minmatar.
And viewing Hardin's posts here, it is no surprise that an Amarrian would make an effort to make this all about them as well as think they have more right to impose demands on the Republic than they think we do. And if the Republic takes up that demand then it is just one more reason why we should continue to shout in anger at the leaders because they will have bent over backwards for the Amarr once more with no headway made to better the lives of their own people in the process.
Well you did put a bounty on the leader, you did use threats (idle or not) of violence against republic fleets, and you did attempt to get things to change by throwing your force around, did you not?
You treated the republic with no sort of respect and only threatened Republic pilots with violence, and you are shocked at this outcome?
Be real.
Now I do think anyone deserves a proper burial, and think EM would be a good group to carry the task, and I hope the Republic is not against anyone giving a proper burial. I think they are feeling a bit bullied by UK and have just about had enough...
Why they cant be so firm with the Amarr, we will never know.
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Teo Kiesh
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.20 14:33:00 -
[32]
A small question from the back row, targeted more at the Defiants, but any U'K response is also appreciated. If you want to give Karishal Muritor a proper tribal burial, shouldn't you give his body over to the Muritor clan who are the ones who should bury their own? Why do you demand a statement from the Republic on a simple matter like this, instead? Are you more interested in rousing tempers than giving a former Republic hero the proper burial?
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Eddie Gordo
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.20 14:44:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Teo Kiesh
A small question from the back row, targeted more at the Defiants, but any U'K response is also appreciated. If you want to give Karishal Muritor a proper tribal burial, shouldn't you give his body over to the Muritor clan who are the ones who should bury their own? Why do you demand a statement from the Republic on a simple matter like this, instead? Are you more interested in rousing tempers than giving a former Republic hero the proper burial?
The Defiants charged us with this task, we will look after Muritor until we are allowed to bring him home or the Defiants tell us otherwise.
Now Recruiting |
Kal Orim
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Posted - 2007.02.20 15:35:00 -
[34]
Karishal Muritor was murdered under a flag of truce by members of the Republic Fleet, with the sanction of the highest levels of government. Whether he was a hero, an outlaw, or both, he was still a true Minmatar. Let him return him. The Ushra'Khan feel it to be their duty to ward his body, perhaps because they failed to save his life. Such sentiment is worthy of a Minmatar. Let them see him home.
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Eddie Gordo
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.20 15:48:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kal Orim
Karishal Muritor was murdered under a flag of truce by members of the Republic Fleet, with the sanction of the highest levels of government. Whether he was a hero, an outlaw, or both, he was still a true Minmatar. Let him return him. The Ushra'Khan feel it to be their duty to ward his body, perhaps because they failed to save his life. Such sentiment is worthy of a Minmatar. Let them see him home.
In case you do not already know, Karishal died rather than turn his guns on his former brothers in arms and he ordered us not to intervene. We did not fail him.
Now Recruiting |
Kal Orim
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Posted - 2007.02.20 15:59:00 -
[36]
I am well aware of the manner of his death.
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Darius Shakor
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.20 16:19:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Teo Kiesh
A small question from the back row, targeted more at the Defiants, but any U'K response is also appreciated. If you want to give Karishal Muritor a proper tribal burial, shouldn't you give his body over to the Muritor clan who are the ones who should bury their own? Why do you demand a statement from the Republic on a simple matter like this, instead? Are you more interested in rousing tempers than giving a former Republic hero the proper burial?
Interesting spin. But what do you base it all on? We are requesting that we be allowed to bring his body to Minmatar space so it can be turned over to the authorities and they can in turn see to the burial, be it by the Muritor clan or who else is charged with the task. That is what we are asking for. Not that we be granted the right to place him under the soil ourselves.
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Shakor Clan Information Portal |
Darius Shakor
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.20 16:24:00 -
[38]
Originally by: CHoKeD
Well you did put a bounty on the leader, you did use threats (idle or not) of violence against republic fleets, and you did attempt to get things to change by throwing your force around, did you not?
You treated the republic with no sort of respect and only threatened Republic pilots with violence, and you are shocked at this outcome?
Be real.
Now I do think anyone deserves a proper burial, and think EM would be a good group to carry the task, and I hope the Republic is not against anyone giving a proper burial. I think they are feeling a bit bullied by UK and have just about had enough...
Why they cant be so firm with the Amarr, we will never know.
We have raised our voices not our guns. In case you have watched the news over the last 4 years you should know that this is just one more questionable decision by the Republic Government in a long string of them that lead to our overall dissatisfaction. I have expressed all of these concerns in my own personal statement on this GalNet channel so if you want more details I sugest you go read it and then see where we are coming from and why we are now raising our voices in anger and persistance over this matter.
But at least you do agree that the Republic cannot be firm with the Amarr, whom they simply grovel to and gain no headway in the direction they are supposed to be heading.
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Shakor Clan Information Portal |
Nihils Astari
Gallente
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.20 16:57:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Nihils Astari on 20/02/2007 16:55:19
Originally by: CHoKeD
I think they are feeling a bit bullied by UK and have just about had enough...
Why they cant be so firm with the Amarr, we will never know.
There lies the heart of the problem. I only hope I'm wrong as to its extent.
On a further note, I would point out if that our apparent "lack of respect" toward the Republic were real, there never would have been a request to allow Muritor's body to be returned. As mighty as the fleet may be, a single small covert ops ship would be difficult if not impossible to stop. By trying to work with the republic, we gave you a chance to say no, and if you haven't been paying attention UK leaders have been trying to find a diplomatic way to work out Karishal's return rather than simply ignoring the denial.
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Sapphrine
Kinda'Shujaa
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.20 17:46:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
I cannot say I personally can agree with this denial. I feel that every Matari person, no matter what his past deeds, deserves the right to return home when they wish to do so peacefully - even if that happens only after their permanent death, even if it happens only with the help of those who still do not wish to return.
I understand the sentiment of the parliament representative. I understand the anger against those who have abandoned us and continue to endanger us with their recklessness and - but we are talking about the burial of a once great man, a hero to us all, even if for different reasons. We have already lost so much over Karishal Muritor; do we have to sacrifice even what little unity our pilots have left over this?
Personally i want to thank you for this measured response. We disagree utterly on most matters but even you can see from the other end of the political spectrum that we are simply trying to carry out a dead mans request in this matter. This is something all pod pilots are united on I believe and this is what the focus should be on.
To rocius, you have no honour and no spine. Go find a belt to stick your head in. You never know, when they reclaim you they may find a use for you in their industrial wing. I hear mining foremen are needed to help them rebuild the battlestation we destroyed :)
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.20 19:29:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Sapphrine
Personally i want to thank you for this measured response. We disagree utterly on most matters but even you can see from the other end of the political spectrum that we are simply trying to carry out a dead mans request in this matter. This is something all pod pilots are united on I believe and this is what the focus should be on.
To rocius, you have no honour and no spine. Go find a belt to stick your head in. You never know, when they reclaim you they may find a use for you in their industrial wing. I hear mining foremen are needed to help them rebuild the battlestation we destroyed :)
Now I would thank you for the compliment in the first paragraph, if the second one did not completely negate my trust in your capability to judge facts. 
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Caillech
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.20 21:15:00 -
[42]
The holders in power in the Republic show their true colors. They would bind us and control us as would the Amarrian pig-dogs. They have no regard for what it means to be Matari - Honor, Loyalty, Courage, Respect for Freedom, and most of all, the Will to Fight. They live by the Amarrian principles of Treachery, Murder, Life as Commodity, and Cowardice.
What have they done for our people? Nothing more than back-room deals to further their selfish gains, paid by the blood of those still chained to the hellfires of the Empire, in the so-called interest of peace - theirs, not ours.
Brothers, we must rise.
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Arkady Sadik
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Posted - 2007.02.20 21:49:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Kal Orim
Karishal Muritor was murdered under a flag of truce
I am sorry to disturb this discussion on this sad subject with such a question, but sadly my request was not heard in another thread. I have so far not seen any evidence that there, indeed, had been a "truce" offered to Muritor. All I'm aware of is a log where nothing about a truce is said. Would it be possible to point me to a proof of this claim, as it is repeated over and over again?
On the topic at hand - I do understand that the Republic does not wish to seem weak in the dispute with the Ushra'Kahn. They already lost an admiral to the demands. I also do hope and assume that the request that was denied was not the request for burial, but the request for an Ushra'Kahn fleet bringing the corpse to Matar. Considering that Ushra'Kahn continues to be able to move within Republic space unhindered, and still able and trusted to receive even important missions from Republic agents, I would also assume that any Ushra'Kahn is welcome to be present at the burial (assuming a permission of the Muritor clan, of course) - just not as a military force. |
Nihils Astari
Gallente
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.21 00:36:00 -
[44]
These views are my own, not necessarily those of any or all of my alliance.
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
I have so far not seen any evidence that there, indeed, had been a "truce" offered to Muritor. All I'm aware of is a log where nothing about a truce is said. Would it be possible to point me to a proof of this claim, as it is repeated over and over again?
Muritor was asked to come to a meeting by a trusted friend. Alone. The only reason he agreed to meet the admiral was because of his trust in his friend. I have not seen this disputed, even by Filmir himself. We can argue all day that there was no legally binding document saying he could leave freely, but based on their history as friends and comrades there was no reason for him to expect otherwise. Read the admiral's words. I don't think he resigned for killing Muritor as much as for how he had himm killed. The deciding factor is what Muritor was led to believe when goiing to meet the admiral.
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
On the topic at hand - I do understand that the Republic does not wish to seem weak in the dispute with the Ushra'Kahn. They already lost an admiral to the demands. I also do hope and assume that the request that was denied was not the request for burial, but the request for an Ushra'Kahn fleet bringing the corpse to Matar. Considering that Ushra'Kahn continues to be able to move within Republic space unhindered, and still able and trusted to receive even important missions from Republic agents, I would also assume that any Ushra'Kahn is welcome to be present at the burial (assuming a permission of the Muritor clan, of course) - just not as a military force.
I did not know there was a law forbidding us from assembling a fleet of armed battleships and coming to Pator to shop or visit if we so desire, so I read the denial as pertaining to the burial itself. Am I wrong?
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Arkady Sadik
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Posted - 2007.02.21 01:26:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Nihils Astari
Muritor was asked to come to a meeting by a trusted friend. Alone. The only reason he agreed to meet the admiral was because of his trust in his friend.
Thank you for making this clearer to me. As I see it, the problem here is a problem of misunderstanding and mis-placed trust, not of an abuse of a promised truce. It is unfortunate that a friend was put against another friend, something Filmir summed up very good. But "unfortunate" is a word that fits to many parts of this tragedy, a tragedy that begins way before the meeting of Filmir and Muritor. But I think it is not justified to claim that Muritor was "murdered under a flag of truce", and only serves to discredit others more than they deserve.
Originally by: Nihils Astari
I did not know there was a law forbidding us from assembling a fleet of armed battleships and coming to Pator to shop or visit if we so desire, so I read the denial as pertaining to the burial itself. Am I wrong?
I am not a member of Parliament, so I don't know what exactly they denied. But from what I would assume, and what I could understand their reasoning for, is that they denied the combination of bringing in the corpse and the war fleet, not the separate parts of that.
From a diplomatic point of view, though, it would be a sign of good intentions to maybe not arrive in full force beyond what is necessary to defend yourself against possible attackers (I have seen with pain that you were attacked by some pirates at the rally over Matar).
It wasn't very diplomatic to include an open accusation of bad intentions of the fleet in the request. Nor was the answer very diplomatic. As the hostilities between the involved parties flame up more now, I would think it to be useful for both sides to try to show good intentions. Both sides are annoyed at the stance of the opposing side, but I hope neither side wants an open conflict with the other side. We are all Matari, and we all fight for the Matari. Each in their own way.
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Hori To
Kinda'Shujaa
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.21 02:16:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Hori To on 21/02/2007 02:13:07
republic space is home, and to hell with everyone who tries to deny me access. I'll pilot my ship where I bloody well please thank you very much. 
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Neuromandis
EPSILON TEAM
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.21 02:45:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Neuromandis on 21/02/2007 02:42:39
**communications error No583 f8*GFDdfS7&*^%DG**
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.21 08:58:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Hori To
republic space is home, and to hell with everyone who tries to deny me access. I'll pilot my ship where I bloody well please thank you very much.
As is, I have not seen anyone deny you this. The request denied is this:
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Once our period of mourning has ended we would hope we are able to return the body of Karishal Muritor to the Republic for the burial rites. It was his wish and the wish of all who served with him. We await a response from the Republic in this matter. We have no hostile intent however due the Republic's recent track record in honouring banners of truce we will escort the body with a fully combat ready force. This is purely for our defence.
Had Ushra'Khan in all peace and quiet brought the hero home, without making a fuss about it, without making statements about "bringing a combat fleet without any hostile intent", I doubt the government would have even paid much attention. Many of U'K have high standing with the Republic and with its affiliated corporations, and so far, not one shot has been fired between the parties, and U'K pilots with the required security status have not been stopped from entering Pator and Matar orbit for demonstrations etc, not even in combat ships.
However, when a government receives a request from an outsider party to bring in a full combat fleet, with an explicitly stated motivation of mistrust between that party and the government, how the hell can they say "yes, by all means"? Would you?
Often it is not so much about what you want to do or say, but how you phrase your request or statement. This is one such situation.
Personally, I would suggest U'K meets the Republic midway, and agrees to fly a peaceful escort to an EM-led procession. But it is not mine to decide, for either side.
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Karn Mithralia
Minmatar
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.21 10:05:00 -
[49]
If the Defiants request it, it will be so.
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Now recruiting. |
Neuromandis
EPSILON TEAM
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.21 12:51:00 -
[50]
There is also the problem that our presense in Empire will attract enemies, and quite probably lots of them, given the fact that such an occasion will require a date and time of rendezvous. Remember the (unannounced) march on Pator? We had to fight our way out, and the date and time was not even public. Anything but a full combat force and we will not even be able to guarrantee our safety, let alone the safe transportation of Karishal Muritor's body. Relying to EM or NMTZ for protection is not really an option as well.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.21 13:06:00 -
[51]
The security concerns are understandable, but that does not change the fact that the request speaks of a combat fleet due to mistrust befween you and the Republic, not for the need for security. That such a hostile wording gets a hostile answer is sad, but not very surprising.
One can hope the situation can be mended still and the matter solved to everyone's satisfaction, but it would have been better to start with softer words.
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Ugleb
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.21 14:41:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Once our period of mourning has ended we would hope we are able to return the body of Karishal Muritor to the Republic for the burial rites. It was his wish and the wish of all who served with him. We await a response from the Republic in this matter. We have no hostile intent however due the Republic's recent track record in honouring banners of truce we will escort the body with a fully combat ready force. This is purely for our defence.
Had Ushra'Khan in all peace and quiet brought the hero home, without making a fuss about it, without making statements about "bringing a combat fleet without any hostile intent", I doubt the government would have even paid much attention. Many of U'K have high standing with the Republic and with its affiliated corporations, and so far, not one shot has been fired between the parties, and U'K pilots with the required security status have not been stopped from entering Pator and Matar orbit for demonstrations etc, not even in combat ships.
However, when a government receives a request from an outsider party to bring in a full combat fleet, with an explicitly stated motivation of mistrust between that party and the government, how the hell can they say "yes, by all means"? Would you?
Often it is not so much about what you want to do or say, but how you phrase your request or statement. This is one such situation.
Personally, I would suggest U'K meets the Republic midway, and agrees to fly a peaceful escort to an EM-led procession. But it is not mine to decide, for either side.
Any public gathering of Ushra'khan pilots must be well equiped for battle as we are under constant threat of attack from Amarrian forces and even some groups un-connected to the slavery conflict. Our current relations with the Republic aside there is plenty of reason for us to travel well armed at all times that have no bearing on the immediate situation.
Now, as for the matter of returning Karishal home. As requested by The Defiants, we will care for Karishal's remains until such a time as he can be returned home for burial with dignity. We could smuggle his body home and conduct a secret ceremony or even march in and bury him in defiance the The Republic's denial, but to do so would be to shame Muritor's memory.
This man is a war hero, this man in turn served both The Republic and those who live in slavery. He deserves to be buried with honour, not in secret and shame. If we bury him tomorrow without vindication and blessing I fear that his rest will be disturbed in reprisal. He may be left in some paupers graveyard in an unmarked grave. There is plenty of spite and enmity out there to guard him against.
Until a time comes when he can be laid to rest with dignity, respect and his honour; we will care for him. We are charged with this duty by the only family we know he had left, we will carry it out even if it takes years. He will be returned home at the proper time and in the proper fashion.
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Patamon
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Posted - 2007.02.21 16:28:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Neuromandis
There is also the problem that our presense in Empire will attract enemies, and quite probably lots of them, given the fact that such an occasion will require a date and time of rendezvous. .
If I may be so bold as to offer an option, the Black Sword would request the priviledge of flying as honor guard for the body and bring it back to Pator. As we have no outstanding war to fight any parties seeking to attack our procession would be met by Concord as well as Minmatar naval forces. Once the body has safely arrived a proper burial date could be set and all parties wishing to attend could do so without the need for massive fleet manuvers.
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Nihils Astari
Gallente
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.21 19:03:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Nihils Astari on 21/02/2007 19:00:00
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
The security concerns are understandable, but that does not change the fact that the request speaks of a combat fleet due to mistrust befween you and the Republic, not for the need for security. That such a hostile wording gets a hostile answer is sad, but not very surprising.
One can hope the situation can be mended still and the matter solved to everyone's satisfaction, but it would have been better to start with softer words.
Ushra'Khan members were with Muritor when he was betrayed and murdered. The republic then openly admitted to it, saying the means used were necessary to stop Muritor. Muritor was a freedom fighter, attacking slavery wherever he could. Ushra'Khan are freedom fighters, attempting to do the same. We do not know the republic has no such agenda for us, and a government that admittedly uses deception as a tactic to eliminate those it considers enemies might see this as a perfect opportunity. Ushra'Khan also has numerous wars in empire and cannot simply travel in unarmed ships without expecting to be attacked.
You may recall the only fighting at the gathering in Pator when Filmir resigned was in self defense. U'K has a reputation for keeping its word in my experience, while the republic does not. How was the request by U'K unreasonable? If the republic came to Providence to visit, we'd tell them to bring warships as there are many hostile parties present. U'K has never done anything to make them think that if we said they could come to out territory and not be attacked by us, that we'd secretly be planning to open fire. They are angry at us, and like a child throwing a tantrum, are using our obligation to Muritor and the defiants to get back at us. They have no authority over us, so the one instance where we ask permission for something, they take the opportunity to say no.
I don't consider myself a warmonger. I didn't want Filmir's death for what he did to Karishal. I would go to great lengths to prevent U'K and Republic forces from exchanging anything more than harsh words. I'd like to see the republic run by an honest, honorable government that works FOR its own people, and I'd rather not see that government replace the current one through violence. Hell, the day the Amarr release all their slaves and stop trying to take more I'm happy to let them do their own thing. When Midular and the republic government operate in the open and show they're working for the interests of the people and not secretly acquiescing to the Amarr at every turn, or step out of the way so that someone who WILL do that can take over, I'll no longer have a problem with them. I don't see this happening though, any more than I see the Amarr quitting the slavery business.
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