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FixXxeRRR	Posted - 2007.02.19 10:31:00 - [1] I was scammed yesterday for 92mil. I was just wondering if this is legal because I hade no idea that I could get scammed with a contract. I mean if u sign a contract the contractor can decline it and get my money. What tha hell of a system is that? Take away the contracts istead from the game because its all scams... Second Q: Can I get a refound from CCP? Regards FixXxeRRR 92 mil short....
lofty29 Athanasius Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.19 10:33:00 - [2] You got scammed for being stupid, plain and simple. Theres no way to get scammed if you actually read notices etc, or use some common sense. No refunds --- http://static.griefwatch.net/gallery/18028383f236b20e4c0f6d7492e58408.gif Please keep your signature below the 24000 bytes limit.- Thx Pirlouit
Angelis666 Amarr The Knights Of Camelot DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.02.19 10:33:00 - [3] You should send a petition for a refund, and no you wont get one because its 100% legal you we're just a dumbass for not figuring out it was a scam ;)
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.02.19 10:44:00 - [4] legal yes, petition yes result will be no reimbursement - scamming designed into system yes, trading smart yes
roqxi	Posted - 2007.02.19 10:45:00 - [5] i am a very new player with a happily growing bank balance, but i am not sure what this means...I've been browsing the market (mmmm, gisti A-type SSB's!) and one day soon shall be able to start buying things. So, if i see a contract for one of these things at say, 85mil, and accept it...i can get nothing and they take all my money? Would someone please expand on how you get contract scammed? (i know about the lame 'set it up with my corp' one ;P)
Mona Lou Essence Research	Posted - 2007.02.19 10:52:00 - [6] Freeform contracts = 100% scam, never ever accept contract of type "FREEFORM". Private auctions (restricted to an individual or a corporation) = most likely scam, never use private auction contracts for selling items, use item exchange contract instead. Auctions ALWAYS need to have set minimum bid at some reasonable amount. And as others said, scamming is legal in Eve, sorry.
FixXxeRRR	Posted - 2007.02.19 10:57:00 - [7] Then WHY implement contracts to a game when its just a tool for scamming noobs like myself. Isnt that just a shame because they should try to make more players and NOT scare them off with this kind of bull****. I am considering to quit playing this game because it has taking me A LOT of time doing lvl 2 missions just to get my 92 mil for a battleship.
roqxi	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:11:00 - [8] Edited by: roqxi on 19/02/2007 11:07:42 Originally by: Mona Lou Freeform contracts = 100% scam, never ever accept contract of type "FREEFORM". Private auctions (restricted to an individual or a corporation) = most likely scam, never use private auction contracts for selling items, use item exchange contract instead. Auctions ALWAYS need to have set minimum bid at some reasonable amount. And as others said, scamming is legal in Eve, sorry. thank you for this! :) it puzzles me why there would be a 100% pure scam method of contracts? and I find the scamming, or as it's euphemistically called in eve 'social engineering' aspect of the game highly dubious, however, I read the "10x money scam" started by 'rome0' and couldn't help but laugh. anyhow, thanks! I am less likely to get scammed now :D and it's good to know if I decided to buy something like a GTC off the forums it's backed up by GM powers should something go awry.
Adrian Kerensky Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:12:00 - [9] Oh no not another new playing jumping into a BS within a month . Seriously though. EVE is supposed to be unsafe for the players. That is what draws so many people to it. Nowhere in EVE is safe space, even high security space is only 'safer' space. The same goes for contracts. If you had read the information within the contract properly instead of blindly accepting it you wouldn't have been scammed. If you quit then I'm sorry to say that it's probably a good thing, because if you can't take a loss of 92mill (even as a new player) to a scam and laugh it off wait until you loose your first battleship to a blob. Well...unless you intend to mission run for the rest of your EVE carrier, in which case wait until you loose your first battleship to a bug. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil 258 bytes over!
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:12:00 - [10] Originally by: FixXxeRRR Then WHY implement contracts to a game when its just a tool for scamming noobs like myself. Isnt that just a shame because they should try to make more players and NOT scare them off with this kind of bull**. I am considering to quit playing this game because it has taking me A LOT of time doing lvl 2 missions just to get my 92 mil for a battleship. Rule number one is don't fly what you can't afford to lose, and it doesn't sound like you could afford this loss. And if you're a noob, why are you buying a BS anyway? - Originally by:** Constantine Arcanum (NOTE: ANUS RELATED ANTICS NO LONGER ALLOWED UNLESS THEY ARE REALLY, REALLY FUNNY OR DEPRAVED)
Roy Focker The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:13:00 - [11] Originally by: FixXxeRRR Then WHY implement contracts to a game when its just a tool for scamming noobs like myself. Isnt that just a shame because they should try to make more players and NOT scare them off with this kind of bull****. I am considering to quit playing this game because it has taking me A LOT of time doing lvl 2 missions just to get my 92 mil for a battleship. I understand your frustration... Unfortunetely scamming is a part of this game and it is allowed. All I can say is, move on. Learn from your mistake. I would suggest joining a good corp who will teach you the basics of the game. And, also, don't worry about those 12 year olds calling you names... They are the kind who point and laugh at 8 month old babies for not being able to walk straight
sugark Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:18:00 - [12] Originally by: roqxi i am a very new player with a happily growing bank balance, but i am not sure what this means...I've been browsing the market (mmmm, gisti A-type SSB's!) and one day soon shall be able to start buying things. So, if i see a contract for one of these things at say, 85mil, and accept it...i can get nothing and they take all my money? Would someone please expand on how you get contract scammed? (i know about the lame 'set it up with my corp' one ;P) First: welcome to Eve. Second: No need to worry if you buy stuff on the market. There the only possible scam is that you pay way too much because of someone putting an extra 0 or two - however, this shouldn¦t be a problem if you look at the price history or the regional average. So if you buy things on the market, you will always get your items - even if it is at a ridiculously high prize. What the OP is referring to is the contracts system. There there are various ways to scam someone, including: - Using freeform contract. Scam: You can¦t hand over items with this kind of contract. Counter: don¦t buy stuff via freeform. - Using item exchange. Scam: Description of item doesn¦t match contract (one popular variation is selling one unit of mineral xyz and describing it as "3567 units of Megacyte - only 1m!!!11!!! below market prize!!11!!" Counter: Always always read the description at the bottom-half of the window if you view the contract. There it will clearly state that it¦s 1 Unit of Megacyte, for example. Also important (of course not only) for blueprints. - Using auctions: The only scam I have seen so far was asking someone to set up a private auction instead of a fixed item exchange with the argument of less taxes or so. Result is that the scammer bids minimal and lets the auction time out afterwards without having met the buyout. Counter: no private auctions on request. Those are all I can think of atm... ___________________________________________________ Thank you Annya Avishnaya for my awesome sig! <3
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:24:00 - [13] Originally by: FixXxeRRR Then WHY implement contracts to a game when its just a tool for scamming noobs like myself. Isnt that just a shame because they should try to make more players and NOT scare them off with this kind of bull****. I am considering to quit playing this game because it has taking me A LOT of time doing lvl 2 missions just to get my 92 mil for a battleship. Freeforms are not useless. They are useful for things that can not be directly traded and they are useful for assigning tasks to corp and alliance members. For instance "go scan all the moons in xyz, and let us know which ones have cobalt" "go make five safe spots in system abc" etc etc. Or consider a freeform contact of "get me a a kill mail of player x, at a date from this one forward ... " Bounty hunting. All sorts of uses for freeform contracts that are not scams, actions and services, looking for a supplier of megacyte on a regualr basis, contact so and so for more details. All kinds of uses -AS
Lucita Thoron Minmatar ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:28:00 - [14] Originally by: FixXxeRRR I was scammed yesterday for 92mil. I was just wondering if this is legal because I hade no idea that I could get scammed with a contract. I mean if u sign a contract the contractor can decline it and get my money. What tha hell of a system is that? Take away the contracts istead from the game because its all scams... Second Q: Can I get a refound from CCP? Regards FixXxeRRR 92 mil short.... Enjoy new contracts system... "In ancient times they had no statistics so they had to fall back on lies."
Mona Lou Essence Research	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:31:00 - [15] Edited by: Mona Lou on 19/02/2007 11:32:25 Originally by: FixXxeRRR Then WHY implement contracts to a game when its just a tool for scamming noobs like myself. Isnt that just a shame because they should try to make more players and NOT scare them off with this kind of bull****. I am considering to quit playing this game because it has taking me A LOT of time doing lvl 2 missions just to get my 92 mil for a battleship. Well they were meant to formalize all kind of agreements between players, but since they don't bind any side to anything, I think they are completly useless and their only purpose atm is scamming. EDIT: You can read more about Contracts in this guide.
Forando Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:36:00 - [16] Yeah, scamming is part of EVE. You can't have an open-ended MMO and say; "Do everything you like, expect scamming, pirating.. yadayada", just don't make sense. Although scamming can cause some nice headaches to it's victims, it does add a good game-dynamic. As long as it is done within the game mechanics, you probably won't get any luck with a petition. Once in a while, someone digs up an exploit, a way to bend the game-mechanics to their benefit; That's not part of the game, and you will most likely get luck with your petition. One place where scamming isn't allowed is with Gametime Card trading. There are two things which I have heard repeated over and over while playing EVE for a few months: - "Never fly something you can't afford to lose!" It's nice getting new and better ships. But if you can't afford to insure it or would be at 0isk if it blew up, you are kinda asking for it. - "Always assume the worst!" If you travel in low-sec and see a guy with a sec-rating of 2.5+, it does not mean he won't try to blow your ship up. Flying in high-sec doesn't mean you are in god-mode and can't be wrecked. In any case, watch your back and be prepared for anything. - "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.." "Lend me some isk, like 5mill, and I'll return it ten-fold in two hours, just need to get this deal done!".. Need I say more? Not directly associated to contracts, but I've found those lines sums up a lot of what you'll find in EVE. It is a cruel universe! (..and I love it!) Enjoy, and fly safe..
MoLeH Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:46:00 - [17] Id say petition, you might get one of the stupid GMs who doesnt know the rules and decides that scamming is wrong, so hell return ur stuff.
Hennry Fromer Gallente radiated space gerbils	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:46:00 - [18] Originally by: Adrian Kerensky Seriously though. EVE is supposed to be unsafe for the players. That is what draws so many people to it. Nowhere in EVE is safe space, even high security space is only 'safer' space. It is also supposed to be a risk Vs. Reward compensation system as well - What risk does the contract scammer have? CCP has not implemented a way to block them other than one at a time manually. They are mostly in starter corps, and most probablly alts. BTW the new guy you ridicule and not help today, encouraging him to quit may be the customer who brings his friends and keeps the game alive next week.
deathforge The Accursed	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:50:00 - [19] Edited by: deathforge on 19/02/2007 11:47:38 Originally by: FixXxeRRR Then WHY implement contracts to a game when its just a tool for scamming noobs like myself. Isnt that just a shame because they should try to make more players and NOT scare them off with this kind of bull****. I am considering to quit playing this game because it has taking me A LOT of time doing lvl 2 missions just to get my 92 mil for a battleship. Dude, read the freaking pop up boxes. When you accept a freeform contract a little thing pops up asking if you really are retarded, which you have to click yes on, to get scammed. Just like when you jump into low-sec and you get a pop up that says "this is probably a bad idea as you're more than likely going to get ganked sensless with no mercy, ransom nor hesitation; jump to your near certain doom anyway?" You clicked yes, the risks were made very clear to you and in a fit of greed you chose to ignore them. no sympathy for you. And since nobody else has asked, can I have your stuff? Oh wait... you don't have any stuff because you got scammed And by the way, I rule you. ---------------------- Low skillpoint Rifter piracy video
FixXxeRRR	Posted - 2007.02.19 11:56:00 - [20] Well thanks all for the support and now that I know that this can happen I will surely look twice before buying something. But all of you has too agree that it isnt funny too get scammed when u are a noob. Well cya out there... Ill just have too get myself into thoose lvl 2 missions again... Regards FixXxeRRR
Liu Kaskakka PAK	Posted - 2007.02.19 13:34:00 - [21] Originally by: FixXxeRRR And Ps: For all u ****ers who thinks im a Retard FACK OFF!!! King Liu is RIGHT!!
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.02.19 16:45:00 - [22] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Freeforms are not useless. True, but this has no place in a "whaa i got scammed" thread. Freeforms are good for people who know what they are doing (formalizing trustbased deals). They do not give any tools whatsoever to enforce this deal. For people who dont know what they are doing (and thats about 99% of those who get scammed with contracts), there are simple rules: Freeform -> scam. If someone tries freeform on you, reject + block. If you want to sell -> item exchange. If someone asks for something else, block. Oh and yep, activate petition boosters, scamming might be 100% legal, but since when do rules have anything to do with petition outcome.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.19 16:47:00 - [23] Originally by: Liu Kaskakka Originally by: FixXxeRRR And Ps: For all u ****ers who thinks im a Retard FACK OFF!!! Oh shi- does dax flame play eve head for the hills! Never again are you allowed to complain about not training for combat
Clarise Deville	Posted - 2007.02.19 16:55:00 - [24] would be nice to se a system where u can remove a bid froma contract i recently bid on sumthing but found it cheaper 1 day later would be nice to have that option also this would help peeps who bid on a scam item as they can get a second veiw of the to good to be true deal just a idea clarise
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.19 17:00:00 - [25] Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 19/02/2007 17:02:57 Originally by: Clarise Deville would be nice to se a system where u can remove a bid froma contract i recently bid on sumthing but found it cheaper 1 day later would be nice to have that option also this would help peeps who bid on a scam item as they can get a second veiw of the to good to be true deal just a idea clarise Some how the forums ate my post The problem with your post is that auctions don't work that way. Once you place a bid you are obliged to pay for it like the guys that spent $400 on an Xbox 360 box Never again are you allowed to complain about not training for combat
Kylania Gallente Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2007.02.19 17:05:00 - [26] Originally by: Clarise Deville would be nice to se a system where u can remove a bid froma contract i recently bid on sumthing but found it cheaper 1 day later would be nice to have that option also this would help peeps who bid on a scam item as they can get a second veiw of the to good to be true deal just a idea clarise Well, the one fix for this is the addition of a reserve price. That way if they min bid, they simply don't get it. In my eyes, that's pretty much a requirement for auctions. However, even that wouldn't "fix" the problem leading to the private corp auctions, which is "people don't think for themselves anymore". They'd still believe the scammer when they were told "set the reserve to minimum to avoid broker fee!" or something stupid. But really the real fix for this is people learning what the heck they are doing before doing it. Anyone asking a question here on the forums, in game on the Help Channel or even just in local would be able to find the answer that "freeform for item 'sales' is a scam" rather easily. Also keeping in mind the whole "If it's too good to be true.. it is." -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| How to Build from a BPO
Jaggeh Gallente Furious Angels	Posted - 2007.02.19 17:31:00 - [27] Originally by: FixXxeRRR Then WHY implement contracts to a game when its just a tool for scamming noobs like myself. Isnt that just a shame because they should try to make more players and NOT scare them off with this kind of bull****. I am considering to quit playing this game because it has taking me A LOT of time doing lvl 2 missions just to get my 92 mil for a battleship. To be honest if something like that is going to make you quit then its probably best youleave now. because there are FAR WORSE things that can happen its very easy to lose a lot of isk in this game. 1. everything you do or get involved in requires common sense, if you are lacking then read the popups and heed the warnings. 2. Take everything with a pinch (or barrel i n some cases) of salt. Trust nobody completely. 3. there is no cure for stupidity. --------------------------------------- Furious Angels are recruiting Carpe Pugya Pyga - Seize the Buttocks
Larake	Posted - 2007.02.19 17:46:00 - [28] Edited by: Larake on 19/02/2007 17:47:12 I am sorry to hear of your loss. I am afraid you will not got much sympathy on the forums since most of the people who have replied to this negatively are actually known scammers themselves. And not very good ones themselves may I add, so when they see a succesful scam they are full of awe and wonderment since they are unable to succede in this themselves very often. My only advise to anyone wishing to use the contracts and remain scam free, is to not use the contract system at all. It is rife with exploits and scams none of which are easily spotted. Until it is fixed, don't use it!! This is advise from someone who has never been scammed simply by following my own advice as above. Regards
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.02.19 18:03:00 - [29] Edited by: Plutoinum on 19/02/2007 18:00:42 Originally by: Larake It is rife with exploits and scams none of which are easily spotted. Until it is fixed, don't use it!! If you understand, how the different forms of contracts work and what they are good for, then you are safe. Don't belief the descriptions that the players fill in themselves and don't believe some crap that they tell you, like you need to make an auction to their corp with low starting bid to sell it to them. Private item exchange is meant to sell something to a particular person, if the price has already been negotiated, not an auction. If someone doesn't understand contracts, he should maybe make some himself with something dispensible to see, which options he has and how the contract looks in the end. _______ I came, I read, I lol'ed.
WilliamPD	Posted - 2007.02.19 18:06:00 - [30] CCP in their great thinking decided to invent a form of contract that was purely created for scramming, it's called freeform contract. You won't get your isk back but what you could do is ask CCP to fix (or delete) that kind of contract because it's of no use to any legit (non scam) contract.

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