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Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.02.19 12:12:00 - [1] In the introduction we can see that the caldari state is the most powerful of all fractions in eve. They've driven by economic and military might, but how it goes for their combat ships and how they should fight ? This is a question, which i've been seeking answer for, for quite some time. Yet i failed to do so. As everyone knows, caldari ships are very good, if not best, for npcing, doing lvl4 missions, complexes. But how do they work in pvp and what's their philosophy of combat ? For unknow , for me, reason caldari ships are using the same kind of weapons as gallente, their oposition. Mostly they're using missiles and strong shield tanks, some say that the best in the whole universe. As everyone knows caldari ships are mostly support ships or ships that are superb when they have someone with them, like tackler who'll immobilize its prey. The most disadvantage of caldari ships is fact that if they want to solo they need to sacrifice few med slots for tackling gear. It especially goes to the turret ships like rokh, harpy or ferox. Due to large mass and low velocity caldari ships aren't good when fitting blaster cannons. If they sacrifice 4 med slots for tackling gear + mwd + injector they're left with 2 slots for tank which is already putting them on lost position. There is somehow solution. Armor tank. Then there's no place for any dmg mods which would increase their damage. Unfortunately for caldari their missiles have the least damage of all weapons in the universe of eve, which stops them from making a "ganking" setups. The next issue of caldari ships is, unlike other 3 races, their slot layout. Even if they could make a gank version like geddon, with similar damage, or like tempest, they wouldn't have any slots left for 1600 plates. Yes, you can fit large shield extenders, they take less pg, but still they give half of hp compared to the plates. Even if anyone fits the shield extenders he won't be able to fit any tackling gear. With low resistances the shields will go down very fast and with fact that their damage ain't good compared to other ships makes the whole concept flaw. There is always a possibility to fit an armor tank, tackling gear and tracking disruptors. But still this shouldn't be the way to encounter other ships by only using tracking disruptors. I'd like now to know your opinion. It won't change the fact that i'm specializing in caldari race, after all i am caldari, but i'd like to know how to fight being caldari.
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.02.19 12:12:00 - [2] In the introduction we can see that the caldari state is the most powerful of all fractions in eve. They've driven by economic and military might, but how it goes for their combat ships and how they should fight ? This is a question, which i've been seeking answer for, for quite some time. Yet i failed to do so. As everyone knows, caldari ships are very good, if not best, for npcing, doing lvl4 missions, complexes. But how do they work in pvp and what's their philosophy of combat ? For unknow , for me, reason caldari ships are using the same kind of weapons as gallente, their oposition. Mostly they're using missiles and strong shield tanks, some say that the best in the whole universe. As everyone knows caldari ships are mostly support ships or ships that are superb when they have someone with them, like tackler who'll immobilize its prey. The most disadvantage of caldari ships is fact that if they want to solo they need to sacrifice few med slots for tackling gear. It especially goes to the turret ships like rokh, harpy or ferox. Due to large mass and low velocity caldari ships aren't good when fitting blaster cannons. If they sacrifice 4 med slots for tackling gear + mwd + injector they're left with 2 slots for tank which is already putting them on lost position. There is somehow solution. Armor tank. Then there's no place for any dmg mods which would increase their damage. Unfortunately for caldari their missiles have the least damage of all weapons in the universe of eve, which stops them from making a "ganking" setups. The next issue of caldari ships is, unlike other 3 races, their slot layout. Even if they could make a gank version like geddon, with similar damage, or like tempest, they wouldn't have any slots left for 1600 plates. Yes, you can fit large shield extenders, they take less pg, but still they give half of hp compared to the plates. Even if anyone fits the shield extenders he won't be able to fit any tackling gear. With low resistances the shields will go down very fast and with fact that their damage ain't good compared to other ships makes the whole concept flaw. There is always a possibility to fit an armor tank, tackling gear and tracking disruptors. But still this shouldn't be the way to encounter other ships by only using tracking disruptors. I'd like now to know your opinion. It won't change the fact that i'm specializing in caldari race, after all i am caldari, but i'd like to know how to fight being caldari.
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2007.02.19 12:17:00 - [3] Edited by: Pinky Denmark on 19/02/2007 12:23:11 Caldari is fundamentally megacorps cramming technology to earn some isk... every asset must be dedicated to specific roles and tasks to be profitable. Caldari ships are meant to perform in gangs with specialiced roles - not being solo pirates and skirmishers like gallente and minmatar. Every ship cannot perform all tasks itself and if all ships could it would in caldari opinions be a waste of slot-space and fitting. We are a race prefering railguns and missiles - all combined with dtrong but cap hungry shield tanks... Quite a few ships however have the option to passive tank using missiles. The trick of caldari: We are blessed with many options among our ships and can perform a large variety of functions. However the caldari ships works best in groups of ships. Tacklers : Interceptors mainly (but cruisers and some heavier ships can often spare a single slot if needed) Support : EW and ships capable of support fire at long range Main Force : Heavy BattleCruisers and Strong slow BattleShips
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2007.02.19 12:17:00 - [4] Edited by: Pinky Denmark on 19/02/2007 12:23:11 Caldari is fundamentally megacorps cramming technology to earn some isk... every asset must be dedicated to specific roles and tasks to be profitable. Caldari ships are meant to perform in gangs with specialiced roles - not being solo pirates and skirmishers like gallente and minmatar. Every ship cannot perform all tasks itself and if all ships could it would in caldari opinions be a waste of slot-space and fitting. We are a race prefering railguns and missiles - all combined with dtrong but cap hungry shield tanks... Quite a few ships however have the option to passive tank using missiles. The trick of caldari: We are blessed with many options among our ships and can perform a large variety of functions. However the caldari ships works best in groups of ships. Tacklers : Interceptors mainly (but cruisers and some heavier ships can often spare a single slot if needed) Support : EW and ships capable of support fire at long range Main Force : Heavy BattleCruisers and Strong slow BattleShips
Nooey Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.02.19 12:24:00 - [5] You ask "how to fight Caldari", but you seem to have an excellent grasp of it already. Teamwork. Caldari work together, their unity is their strength. It's a beautiful thing really, as their combat philosophy is so fitting to what the Caldari people are portrayed as - a society where the family/corporation/collective good takes precedence over the individual to achieve success. In my opinion the single best example of the Caldari combat philosophy is the Falcon. That ship is 100% useless on its own, and 100% terror when it integrates into a team. On their own, Caldari ships are just like petty grains of sand, but together, they are a ruthless desert.
Nooey Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.02.19 12:24:00 - [6] You ask "how to fight Caldari", but you seem to have an excellent grasp of it already. Teamwork. Caldari work together, their unity is their strength. It's a beautiful thing really, as their combat philosophy is so fitting to what the Caldari people are portrayed as - a society where the family/corporation/collective good takes precedence over the individual to achieve success. In my opinion the single best example of the Caldari combat philosophy is the Falcon. That ship is 100% useless on its own, and 100% terror when it integrates into a team. On their own, Caldari ships are just like petty grains of sand, but together, they are a ruthless desert.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.02.19 12:33:00 - [7] I lol at players that say caldari ships can't fight close range. Untill they meet a NH or drake with T2 HAM's. See, most caldari ships are missile boats so they don't need cap to fire their weapons, they also can fit a nasty passive shieldtank so they don't need cap to keep their tank going, ergo, u can orbit nossieboats quite easily and at 5 to 10km range even defender missiles become useless. Anyways i also like the irony of defeatin my foes with their own weapons Missile/shieldtank w***ing 4TW!!! Resized tag... again... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp... again :p
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.02.19 12:33:00 - [8] I lol at players that say caldari ships can't fight close range. Untill they meet a NH or drake with T2 HAM's. See, most caldari ships are missile boats so they don't need cap to fire their weapons, they also can fit a nasty passive shieldtank so they don't need cap to keep their tank going, ergo, u can orbit nossieboats quite easily and at 5 to 10km range even defender missiles become useless. Anyways i also like the irony of defeatin my foes with their own weapons Missile/shieldtank w***ing 4TW!!! Resized tag... again... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp... again :p
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2007.02.19 12:37:00 - [9] Caldari can fight close range - but they are having a hard time getting there and staying there with a conventional shield tank and pretty slow ships... We did talk about the combat philosophy - close range is not the intended way of combat however very efficient... Good advice for some of the heavier ships if you can get in position.
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2007.02.19 12:37:00 - [10] Caldari can fight close range - but they are having a hard time getting there and staying there with a conventional shield tank and pretty slow ships... We did talk about the combat philosophy - close range is not the intended way of combat however very efficient... Good advice for some of the heavier ships if you can get in position.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.19 13:34:00 - [11] Caldari are nto the most powerfull faction. They were loosing the war agaisnt gallente and gallente decided to go for peace because of the ammar threat. So probably the correct scale is Ammar>Gallente>Caldari>Minmatar If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.02.19 13:36:00 - [12] I think that after so long time the caldari should be able to adapt to the new universe of eve. They should be able to choose what they really want. Therefore ganking while having much shield HP, being able to deal lots of damage, crazy damage. Let's look at Rokh. You can setup her with shield booster, 2 invul, injector and 2 shield amplifiers. It's a perfect fleet setup if you land right on top of your target and you have a tackler that will immobilize your prey. It is said that as a state caldari are the strongest among all in eve, but they should be able to solo efficently. Of course there are lots of ships good at solo like crow, crazy passive shield tankers like drake, but we should have more ships dealing lots of damage and being able to defeat some ships solo.
Moridin Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.19 13:44:00 - [13] most this is true. most caldari ships are poor solo ships. you can fit a silly omi shield tank. but most cases then you cant tackle anything. firepower is good but easy to hit the max.
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.02.19 15:27:00 - [14] Now after doing some thinking ... there is/would be a hope for caldari ships. The only thing that would be needed to be done is changing the current shield extenders. Double the hp bonus and the pg requirements. Then we could passive tank and still have many slots for tackling gear. Ships like drakes wouldn't be overpowered cause they'd need more pg, therefore less spr's. This would state the shield and armor tanking in the same line in my humble opinion
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.19 16:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Dragy Now after doing some thinking ... there is/would be a hope for caldari ships. The only thing that would be needed to be done is changing the current shield extenders. Double the hp bonus and the pg requirements. Then we could passive tank and still have many slots for tackling gear. Ships like drakes wouldn't be overpowered cause they'd need more pg, therefore less spr's. This would state the shield and armor tanking in the same line in my humble opinion who on earth fits shield extenders on their solo shield tanks. Shield extenders are for: A: missions B: fleets Caldari are fine.
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.02.19 17:15:00 - [16] Originally by: Dragy In the introduction we can see that the caldari state is the most powerful of all fractions in eve. 60% of players or so are Caldari. That's a mighty powerful fraction. (Did noone else catch that?) Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY Down with alts! One character per account per IP!
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.02.20 12:12:00 - [17] Originally by: Nicocat Originally by: Dragy In the introduction we can see that the caldari state is the most powerful of all fractions in eve. 60% of players or so are Caldari. That's a mighty powerful fraction. (Did noone else catch that?) What do you exactly mean ?
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.02.20 12:12:00 - [18] Originally by: Nicocat Originally by: Dragy In the introduction we can see that the caldari state is the most powerful of all fractions in eve. 60% of players or so are Caldari. That's a mighty powerful fraction. (Did noone else catch that?) What do you exactly mean ?
Kery Nysell Caldari Nysell Incorporated	Posted - 2007.02.20 12:55:00 - [19] Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Nicocat Originally by: Dragy In the introduction we can see that the caldari state is the most powerful of all fractions in eve. 60% of players or so are Caldari. That's a mighty powerful fraction. (Did noone else catch that?) What do you exactly mean ? Faction != fraction.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.02.20 12:58:00 - [20] Well, "the most powerful of all fractions in eve: [sic] would be a divide by zero, but ha ha not so funny. Anyway, you must have misread something or got off on the wrong tangent zing. The Caldari State is by far NOT the most powerful faction/empire in EVE. It is however (supposedly) the most technologically advanced one, and I quote "one of the smallest navies but always with the newest technology". Well, at least that's what the backstory claims. As several people above have already made it clear, Caldari ships (just like most Amarr ships) are NOT very good when it comes to a solo-PvP role, and they really only shine in groups. You have the strongest tanks, with very fast response times, and quite CONTRARY to popular belief, MUCH LESS cap-hungry as an equivalent armor tank, for a fully skilled pilot... but it does indeed require an additional slot for that effectiveness. A T2 XL booster + T2 amp repairs MORE shield/second for LESS cap/shield as a dual T2 LAR setup, assuming maxed-out skills. If you add any Crystal implants to the equation, or start using faction boosters and faction amps instead, the comparison with faction armor tanks with regards to capacitor effectiveness and "repaired" amount gets out of whack really fast. Best combo gets over 5 shield per capacitor even before crystal set, and almost 8 per cap with it, while the best armor repairer can't even reach 3 per capacitor. You have the most specialised ships... the best missile spammers (Raven, Nighthawk/Cerberus, Drake/Caracal), the best long-range snipers (Rokh, Vulture/Eagle, Ferox/Moa), one of the best (or probably the best) interceptors (Crow), one of the best destoryers/interdictors, and so on and so forth. And don't get me started on the capitals, everybody underapreciates them. But with specialisation comes weakness in all non-specialised areas. A Raven is worthless if the missiles can't reach the target before it warps away (even if the raw DPS is very good, especially considering you can pick your damage type 100%), a Rokh all by itself doesn't deal impressive damage at extreme ranges, and so on and so forth. You should NOT try to PvP in a small gang using only a certain type of Caldari ship, unless the situation calls for just that specific ship and nothing else... in some cases, it might work, but in most cases it just doesn't. But start varying your fleet's composition and you can very well have a good skirmish fleet that can stand up to pretty much anything the enemy can throw at you, even if you use only Caldari designed ships. So back on track. Caldari philosophy of combat ? * never fly alone unless you know what to expect and are 100% sure you can deal with it * fight at extreme/long range (rails+cruise, then torpedos a bit closer), use dedicated tacklers to keep anybody from warping off * deny the enemy the ability to fight back at long range through targetted EWar, make him approach you, pummel him into submission while he does that * when the enemy starts getting into HIS good range, already weakened, pump up the volume on own defences... might not hold long but who cares * finish the enemy off or disengage/flee and regroup otherwise That pretty much sums it up, doesn't it ? _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Phoenicia Macabre Votum Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.02.20 12:58:00 - [21] Originally by: Dragy What do you exactly mean ? A fraction is a very small piece of something. A faction is a large group of likeminded people working towards a common goal. Just like there are no "scorpians", "megatrons", or, my personal apparition; "pheonixes" in the game. Peace is a lie, there is only BOOBIES!
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG	Posted - 2007.02.20 13:18:00 - [22] Originally by: Dragy I think that after so long time the caldari should be able to adapt to the new universe of eve. They should be able to choose what they really want. Therefore ganking while having much shield HP, being able to deal lots of damage, crazy damage. Let's look at Rokh. You can setup her with shield booster, 2 invul, injector and 2 shield amplifiers. It's a perfect fleet setup if you land right on top of your target and you have a tackler that will immobilize your prey. It is said that as a state caldari are the strongest among all in eve, but they should be able to solo efficently. Of course there are lots of ships good at solo like crow, crazy passive shield tankers like drake, but we should have more ships dealing lots of damage and being able to defeat some ships solo. Soloing in a Crow?? I do hope you're joking, any destroyer pilot worth his weight in salt can take down a Crow.
enymphia Vortex. Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.20 13:35:00 - [23] well.. you just have to find the best way to use the current ship you're in, and just because you're caldari it doesnt force you to only fly caldari ships?! heres what i do: Im using caldari ships when flying in gangs and fleet. When i go solo i just grab my gallente blasterboats, its easy to use both caldari and gallente ships cuz they both use hybrids as weapon.
Foulis Minmatar Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.20 14:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Dragy In the introduction we can see that the caldari state is the most powerful of all fractions in eve. For about 5 seconds there I thought you were another detaurus clone... good post though. ---- Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
dot me	Posted - 2007.02.20 14:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Akita T You have the strongest tanks, with very fast response times, and quite CONTRARY to popular belief, MUCH LESS cap-hungry as an equivalent armor tank, for a fully skilled pilot... but it does indeed require an additional slot for that effectiveness. A T2 XL booster + T2 amp repairs MORE shield/second for LESS cap/shield as a dual T2 LAR setup, assuming maxed-out skills. and you are saying this because? dual LAR2: 400 cap/15 seconds. skills - 25% time reduction. 150.75 = 11.25 seconds. so 2400/11.25 = 71.(1) cap/second T2 Xl booster 400 cap/5 seconds. skills - 10% cap reduction. so 400*0.9/5 = 360/5 = 72 cap/second i'm sorry .. you must have ment a "fully skilled pilot with rigs or hardwires" since that would be the only way armor repairing would consume much more cap then shield bosting. however i'm pritty sure armor repairing would yeild better hp/sec. other then that good points.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.02.20 14:53:00 - [26] With maxed-out skills... T2 XL booster + T2 amp : 6001.36 shield for 4000.9 cap every 5 seconds Dual T2 LAR : 2800 armor for 2400 cap every 150.75 seconds Or 816 shield for 360 cap every 5 sec -vs- 1600 armor for 800 cap every 11.25 sec. That's an average of 163.2 shield/sec for 72 cap/sec, or 0.44117(...) cap used per shield unit boosted. And average of 142.2(2) armor/sec for 71.11 cap/sec, or 0.5 cap used per armor unit boosted. Conclusion: shield combo boosts almost 15% more per second for a minimal (1.25%) cap/second drain increase.* _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
dot me	Posted - 2007.02.20 14:59:00 - [27] Originally by: Akita T With maxed-out skills... Conclusion: shield combo boosts almost 15% more per second for a minimal (1.25%) cap/second drain increase. i am happy you agree with me that the words "MUCH LESS cap-hungry" don't fit there.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.02.20 15:03:00 - [28] Originally by: dot me i am happy you agree with me that the words "MUCH LESS cap-hungry" don't fit there. Well, if you're looking at the total raw repaired/boosted amount, for the same total amount of repair over time you do use less capacitor, so shield boosting IS less "cap hungry". _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
dot me	Posted - 2007.02.20 15:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: dot me i am happy you agree with me that the words "MUCH LESS cap-hungry" don't fit there. Well, if you're looking at the total raw repaired/boosted amount, for the same total amount of repair over time you do use less capacitor, so shield boosting IS less "cap hungry". i have a different perspective on things. and i understand your are trying to make a point here but you are using(in my oppinion) the wrong arguments. you are arguing that because you have a better hp/cap ratio and a neglijable cap/second difference you need less capacitor in all to repair the same amount of hp in the same amount of time. this would be true(i grant you that) IF you do not take into account the quality of the hp. Armor has 10% more resists then shield thus have better quality. also it is easyer to improve this quality CAP FREE (!!!) eann2 +dcu? vs active hardners on shield? yes i know very well about pasive shield recharge but it doesn't make up for it in terms of cap. so in other words. i take cap/sec as more then a qualifing term of comparison for cap hungry debates. sorry for ranting
Jack Farness	Posted - 2007.02.20 20:51:00 - [30] Does it seems odd to anybody else that armor is repaired just as fast as shields? To me it would be more logical that shields (being energy) would be much faster to recharge and armor need less energy (cap) to be repaired.

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