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![Jasmine Cheryu Jasmine Cheryu](https://images.evetech.net/characters/93620257/portrait?size=64)
Jasmine Cheryu
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
28
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Posted - 2016.04.27 13:03:08 -
[1] - Quote
YES!! It's another mining thread ![Shocked](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_shocked.png)
I don't mine too much as I get bored easily, but I have thought of a potential idea to improve the mining experience slightly (not by much.. but it will be a small improvement). Also it will give gankers all over New Eden something to hunt for since there will be nice payout for looting the following module (keep reading..) ![Smile](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile.png)
Anyway the problem with mining these days is mining something I like to refer to as 'dead ore'. What is dead ore? -- I like to explain it simply with the following example: You're mining veldspar... (I'm using veldspar for this example because it best represents my idea numerically) and you have a yield of 3,000m3 per cycle on your strip miner. Now any experienced player knows that 1 unit of veldspar = 0.1m3 -- Therefore per cycle one can expect to ming 30,000 units of veldspar per cycle. This makes sense and we all know this. Now this 30,000 per cycle only happens, assuming the asteroid being mined has 30,000 units or more left to mine... but if the asteroid has LESS than 30,000, then you will be mining 'dead ore' since you're wasting time with your strip miner still being active and thus this is ineffecient. Think if you have a veldspar asteroid with 500 units of veldspar in it. At 3,000 m3 per cycle, you can pop this asteroid almost immediately and move onto the next asteroid to improve efficiency and of course isk/hr.
Now with the problem outlined... this is my actual proposal: We get some form of new strip miner, that DOES NOT have a greater yield that a T2 strip miner (this could be a T3? strip miner and use T3 componants to build it..) Instead we have a strip miner, that is basically a replica of a T2 and of course still uses crystals to mine, but will automatically calculate exactly how long the cycle needs to run for, in order to pop the asteroid. This of course will have a maximum run cycle which is the same as the T2 cycle, but for any asteroids that have LESS units than the maximum yield for a full spin, the spintime will be reduced in order to improve efficiency.
These strip miners should be rather expensive to build and of course to sell. I expect them to be between 250-350 million per strip miner (similar prices to the ORE Strip miners) and potentially use T3 componants to construct. Gankers will enjoy this opportunity to look for any silly miners using paper thin ships such as a retriever and mining with these strip miners (hell I will probably go hunting myself) Although the cleverer miners will of course use skiffs, regardless of where they are, in order to keep their assets safe
I would appreciate any mature critisism and feedback ![Smile](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile.png) |
![Kiddoomer Kiddoomer](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1362838640/portrait?size=64)
Kiddoomer
Deep Space Exploitation Federal United Battalion of Armed Renegades
110
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Posted - 2016.04.27 13:29:09 -
[2] - Quote
Hum, that's what survey scanners are for ya know ? to avoid wasting time mining too much in one cycle.
Your proposition removes one of the last thing a miner have to care about while doing his job (except checking local/intel/dscan and rats). So -1
We're recruiting !
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![Celthric Kanerian Celthric Kanerian](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91375387/portrait?size=64)
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
731
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Posted - 2016.04.27 13:34:37 -
[3] - Quote
When you have mined for quite a while, you will simply look at the radius of the rock to see if it is worth mining.
Otherwise use a Survey scanner. |
![Daichi Yamato Daichi Yamato](https://images.evetech.net/characters/815492084/portrait?size=64)
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3220
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Posted - 2016.04.27 13:35:36 -
[4] - Quote
Afk mining should not be encouraged.
Miners who pay attention and do basic estimation math benefit over dumb lazy miners. This is a good thing.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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![Jasmine Cheryu Jasmine Cheryu](https://images.evetech.net/characters/93620257/portrait?size=64)
Jasmine Cheryu
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
28
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Posted - 2016.04.27 13:39:59 -
[5] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Afk mining should not be encouraged.
Miners who pay attention and do basic estimation math benefit over dumb lazy miners. This is a good thing.
How about as a compromise, they dont change the spintime of the module automatically, but it gives an estimated time for when it would be appropriate to deactivate your strip miner (this stops people from afk mining but infact encourages them to be more active in order to maintain 95-100% efficiency) Maybe they could implement this on the spintime of the module button itself -- there could be a bar on the module spintime that indicates when best to turn off the strip miner and move onto the next asteroid? ![Smile](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile.png) |
![Kiddoomer Kiddoomer](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1362838640/portrait?size=64)
Kiddoomer
Deep Space Exploitation Federal United Battalion of Armed Renegades
111
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Posted - 2016.04.27 13:53:27 -
[6] - Quote
Jasmine Cheryu wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Afk mining should not be encouraged.
Miners who pay attention and do basic estimation math benefit over dumb lazy miners. This is a good thing. How about as a compromise, they dont change the spintime of the module automatically, but it gives an estimated time for when it would be appropriate to deactivate your strip miner (this stops people from afk mining but infact encourages them to be more active in order to maintain 95-100% efficiency) Maybe they could implement this on the spintime of the module button itself -- there could be a bar on the module spintime that indicates when best to turn off the strip miner and move onto the next asteroid? ![Smile](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile.png) [url] http://i.imgur.com/NOtrMEq.png [/url] This for example.... If left unmaintained, the cycle will continue to its full cycle and then deplete the asteroid... so for the miner who is lazy and non attentive, this will yield less ore/hr than the miner who is active, at his keyboard, NOT AFK MINING and who is paying attention to what is going on. Due to the larger payouts, this will give miners an incentive to NOT be afk, and to actually be playing the game.. if they wish to gather more resources at a slightly more efficient rate ![Smile](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile.png)
Instead of a new module for that, you could make this effect to the existing strip miners if the ship has a survey scanner equipped. This I would agree to.
We're recruiting !
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![Jasmine Cheryu Jasmine Cheryu](https://images.evetech.net/characters/93620257/portrait?size=64)
Jasmine Cheryu
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
28
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Posted - 2016.04.27 13:57:27 -
[7] - Quote
Kiddoomer wrote: Instead of a new module for that, you could make this effect to the existing strip miners if the ship has a survey scanner equipped. This I would agree to.
I would love that also... maybe just a small improvement to survey scanners is needed. They seem a little old, underused (due to always having to make consistant calculations) and could do with a good rework Thanks for your positive feedback ![Big smile](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile-big.png) |
![Jasmine Cheryu Jasmine Cheryu](https://images.evetech.net/characters/93620257/portrait?size=64)
Jasmine Cheryu
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
28
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Posted - 2016.04.27 14:32:28 -
[8] - Quote
My original proposal at the start of this thread has now changed due to feedback from the wonderful people who commented above ![Smile](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile.png) |
![Jasmine Cheryu Jasmine Cheryu](https://images.evetech.net/characters/93620257/portrait?size=64)
Jasmine Cheryu
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
30
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Posted - 2016.04.28 11:55:46 -
[9] - Quote
bumpy ![Smile](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile.png) |
![Reaver Glitterstim Reaver Glitterstim](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1017580736/portrait?size=64)
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2931
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Posted - 2016.04.28 19:52:08 -
[10] - Quote
Yes, please!
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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![Bondor Zanphre Bondor Zanphre](https://images.evetech.net/characters/94212780/portrait?size=64)
Bondor Zanphre
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2016.04.28 20:43:35 -
[11] - Quote
The "dead ore" left within the belt ,or created was done so purposely by other miners who have calculated the optimal time to deactivate lasers. By fully understanding your mining skills, boosts, implants, hull bonus, ore sizes and your initial scanning data you too will reduce wasted cycles by knowing when to stop or call off your drones.
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![Jasmine Cheryu Jasmine Cheryu](https://images.evetech.net/characters/93620257/portrait?size=64)
Jasmine Cheryu
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
31
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Posted - 2016.04.28 23:17:06 -
[12] - Quote
Bondor Zanphre wrote:The "dead ore" left within the belt ,or created was done so purposely by other miners who have calculated the optimal time to deactivate lasers. By fully understanding your mining skills, boosts, implants, hull bonus, ore sizes and your initial scanning data you too will reduce wasted cycles by knowing when to stop or call off your drones.
I agree, but when some people have multiple accounts (I personally have 6 .... and I do know a friend of mine who has.. 24 accounts.. yep.. he's crazy).. it quickly becomes a little tedious to continually do quick calculations (it does make you damn good at mathematics though ) Just having a small indicator, showing when when it would be appropriate to turn off the laser, would make all the difference!!
Any more thoughts people? |
![Darth Squeemus Darth Squeemus](https://images.evetech.net/characters/95682765/portrait?size=64)
Darth Squeemus
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2016.04.29 00:20:55 -
[13] - Quote
This feature is not needed, but I don't see how it will hurt. I don't think that afk mining should be discouraged. If players want to afk mine and expose themselves to all the risks that come with that, whether they are aware of those risks or not, then they should not be encouraged to do otherwise. To me, the most beautiful thing about Eve is its Darwinian nature.
That said, I don't think that this feature will effect afk mining as much as you think it will. Even with a little blue line on the cycle spin to tell you when to deactivate your laser, the reason which motivates people to afk mine will remain the same - it is a tedious and boring pass-time and miners are still going to want to tab out of Eve and watch netflix or go cook dinner or whatever it is they do when they go afk.
So now, instead of players having to choose between going afk and watching their lasers cycle, they now get to choose between going afk and watching their lasers cycle until a blue line appears. Yeah...if I'm gonna go make myself a sandwich in the first scenario, I'm probably still going to go make myself a sandwich in the second scenario. But this problem can be sidestepped entirely by taking advantage of features that already exist in the game. If CCP decides to entertain this idea, so be it, but I'd rather see the devs working on something a little more meaningful.
Nifty idea, but I have to give it a -1. |
![Jasmine Cheryu Jasmine Cheryu](https://images.evetech.net/characters/93620257/portrait?size=64)
Jasmine Cheryu
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
31
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Posted - 2016.04.29 01:01:41 -
[14] - Quote
Darth Squeemus wrote:This feature is not needed, but I don't see how it will hurt. I don't think that afk mining should be discouraged. If players want to afk mine and expose themselves to all the risks that come with that, whether they are aware of those risks or not, then they should not be encouraged to do otherwise. To me, the most beautiful thing about Eve is its Darwinian nature.
That said, I don't think that this feature will effect afk mining as much as you think it will. Even with a little blue line on the cycle spin to tell you when to deactivate your laser, the reason which motivates people to afk mine will remain the same - it is a tedious and boring pass-time and miners are still going to want to tab out of Eve and watch netflix or go cook dinner or whatever it is they do when they go afk.
So now, instead of players having to choose between going afk and watching their lasers cycle, they now get to choose between going afk and watching their lasers cycle until a blue line appears. Yeah...if I'm gonna go make myself a sandwich in the first scenario, I'm probably still going to go make myself a sandwich in the second scenario. But this problem can be sidestepped entirely by taking advantage of features that already exist in the game. If CCP decides to entertain this idea, so be it, but I'd rather see the devs working on something a little more meaningful.
Nifty idea, but I have to give it a -1.
Just incase there isn't any confusion -- this idea isn't to try to get away from AFK mining, but rather to give players who decide NOT to AFK mine but rather are more 'active' in their mining role, the ability to earn more ISK/hr by maximising their efficiency through this extra little feature ![Smile](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile.png) |
![Jasmine Cheryu Jasmine Cheryu](https://images.evetech.net/characters/93620257/portrait?size=64)
Jasmine Cheryu
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
34
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Posted - 2016.05.02 11:49:48 -
[15] - Quote
Bump ![Smile](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile.png) |
![FoxFire Ayderan FoxFire Ayderan](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91842063/portrait?size=64)
FoxFire Ayderan
208
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Posted - 2016.05.03 17:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
This is a great idea!
I like it being part of the strip miner itself, rather than requiring a survey scan. Perhaps it could require a survey scanner be installed, or maybe it's simply an upgraded, more expensive, strip miner and no survey scanner is required.
I do like to actively mine (i.e. have the client open while I'm mining), and I do use a survey scanner, but it's far too tedious to cotinue to use it to see how much ore is left in an asteroid and cut my strip miner off at the right time. If it has 10 units left, I don't know and don't care, I let the full cycle go if I don't know it has that little left. I mine long enough that it doesn't bother me (well it does, but it bothers me less than constantly hitting the survey scanner).
Usually when I'm mining I'm doing other things. Like chatting, posting in the F&I forums, or surfing the web using the in game browser. Can you imagine proposing an in-game browser now so that miners have something to do in game while the client is open, the hissy fit you'd hear from gankers. Who want to encourage more tedium in mining so people will go AFK for them.
I also Alt-Tab mine. So the warp-in sound was a huge boon for that! What a huge boot in the *** of gankers with that one. Thanks CCP! As soon as I hear a warp in effect I Alt-Tab back to see who or what it was.
And now you can't even put me in your watch list and see if I'm online to see if you can nab me in the couple of seconds it takes for me to Alt-tab back into game. ![Big smile](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile-big.png)
At any rate, if this idea was implemented I would actually spend more time actively mining. (Hitting the mining lasers off at the optimal time). Of course gankers will hate this idea, because it encourages actively mining. And make no mistake they DO love AFK-mining and want more of it, even though they proclaim it as their 'nobel' cause for ganking. |
![Reaver Glitterstim Reaver Glitterstim](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1017580736/portrait?size=64)
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2937
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Posted - 2016.05.03 17:56:05 -
[17] - Quote
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:This is a great idea!
I like it being part of the strip miner itself, rather than requiring a survey scan. Perhaps it could require a survey scanner be installed, I thought this was already established.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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![FoxFire Ayderan FoxFire Ayderan](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91842063/portrait?size=64)
FoxFire Ayderan
209
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Posted - 2016.05.03 18:23:40 -
[18] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:FoxFire Ayderan wrote:This is a great idea!
I like it being part of the strip miner itself, rather than requiring a survey scan. Perhaps it could require a survey scanner be installed, I thought this was already established.
I believe it was established as a possibility with its implementation.
I can see a survey scanner installed being a requirement (of course gankers have only one thing in mind when believing that should be a requirment). So an alternative, that doesn't placate gankers (as much anyway), would be to have a more costly strip miner that does the same thing without requiring a survey scanner be installed. Of course, to a degree this is still an enticement for gankers, as they get to blow up (perhaps loot) a far more expensive module. However, a miner could tank more and make it a bit more difficult to be blown up.
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![Reaver Glitterstim Reaver Glitterstim](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1017580736/portrait?size=64)
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2937
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Posted - 2016.05.03 18:39:36 -
[19] - Quote
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:I can see a survey scanner installed being a requirement (of course gankers have only one thing in mind when believing that should be a requirment). So an alternative, that doesn't placate gankers (as much anyway), would be to have a more costly strip miner that does the same thing without requiring a survey scanner be installed. Of course, to a degree this is still an enticement for gankers, as they get to blow up (perhaps loot) a far more expensive module. However, a miner could tank more and make it a bit more difficult to be blown up. I don't see it as being ganker-centric to require the scanner being fit. It takes up a mid slot for a reason. You can tank your barge pretty well even with a scanner fit, anyway. I'd still use it on some barges, especially if I am mining in highsec. In nullsec I wouldn't bother using it since most asteroids take many cycles to deplete anyway.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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![Jasmine Cheryu Jasmine Cheryu](https://images.evetech.net/characters/93620257/portrait?size=64)
Jasmine Cheryu
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
39
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Posted - 2016.05.04 17:42:04 -
[20] - Quote
End of the day, this isn't a thread about gankers (I personally support ganking.. as it teachs weaker players lessons, like it taught me)
This thread is about encouraging an incentive to stop AFK mining. If this was implemented, people could get more ISK/hr if they did not AFK mine, than if they did.
I personally don't AFK mine, even without implementation... Although I would prefer a slightly higher payout, than the people who do AFK mine.
(on a side thought, maybe I should start ganking AFK miners with my own alt characters... and/or report gankable afk characters to CODE and other gank organisations, in systems around the game ) |
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![FoxFire Ayderan FoxFire Ayderan](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91842063/portrait?size=64)
FoxFire Ayderan
212
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Posted - 2016.05.04 18:08:16 -
[21] - Quote
Jasmine Cheryu wrote:End of the day, this isn't a thread about gankers (I personally support ganking.. as it teachs weaker players lessons, like it taught me)
In F&I, *every* thread is about gankers and how the idea will affect their lifestyle.
They really have NO problem with AFK mining (even while they claim they are simply combatting it). They love it, and they want more of it. Without it, it would be that much more difficut to get their rocks off. (initially no pun intended, but now that I noticed it pun intended )
Your idea encourages and rewards active mining, hence the ganking commuity would naturally be opposed to it. |
![Reaver Glitterstim Reaver Glitterstim](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1017580736/portrait?size=64)
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2940
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Posted - 2016.05.04 19:18:46 -
[22] - Quote
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:They really have NO problem with AFK mining (even while they claim they are simply combatting it). They love it, and they want more of it. That's not necessarily true. Some of us gank because we want them to stop AFK mining. We're not actually a very small minority, I might add. Furthermore, many of the proud gankers will claim they are unafraid of updates that would make it more difficult to gank because they will still be able to pull off rewarding ganks without problem. And they do, indeed.
Be careful generalizing the EVE Online community. This is not your average microcosm, as you'll discover with experience.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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![Jasmine Cheryu Jasmine Cheryu](https://images.evetech.net/characters/93620257/portrait?size=64)
Jasmine Cheryu
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
40
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Posted - 2016.05.04 21:44:15 -
[23] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:FoxFire Ayderan wrote:They really have NO problem with AFK mining (even while they claim they are simply combatting it). They love it, and they want more of it. That's not necessarily true. Some of us gank because we want them to stop AFK mining. We're not actually a very small minority, I might add. Furthermore, many of the proud gankers will claim they are unafraid of updates that would make it more difficult to gank because they will still be able to pull off rewarding ganks without problem. And they do, indeed. Be careful generalizing the EVE Online community. This is not your average microcosm, as you'll discover with experience.
I agree with you totally ![Smile](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile.png) Stopping afk mining would be great, and hopefully CCP looks at my idea and implements it (probably not though.. but one can dream) |
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