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Lydia Seii
Nuwa Foundation
1
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Posted - 2016.05.02 02:48:29 -
[1] - Quote
hi! I have done some tests myself but it was still unclear that which one works better when it comes to 'big gun small target' scenario. for example: XL torpedo hitting battleships, I find its more rewarding to use a web than a painter. Meanwhile for HAW on naglfar I hit better with a target painter.
Anyone cares to explain? Thanks |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15325
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Posted - 2016.05.02 03:06:33 -
[2] - Quote
you are manipulating two different stats ,
webs take the targets transversel velocity down
target painters bloom the targets signature radeus
Better the Devil you know.
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RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1242
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Posted - 2016.05.02 03:51:07 -
[3] - Quote
If I fly big ships, I like to brawl, up close, and I fit a web. If I fly cruisers and below, I fit painters. Painters are better for anything out past 13km. Better in kite situations. Painters are better in fleets, because the sig bloom helps everyone in your fleet hit from range.
So, I fit for the planned engagement. Or for how I intend to pilot my ship. It's not so much about which module is better. |
Nalia White
Tencus
172
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Posted - 2016.05.02 18:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
you have to consider your own movement though. just flat out saying that it reduces a stat is wrong :) nitpicking i know but if you orbit something at 5000 it doesn't mean that the transversal will go down too much. you get a more stable orbit which can even mean transversal gets up if you web a target.
webs for range control. with range control you can actualy choose the transversal you want. double web on a battlecruiser against a small target let's you slowly coast away in one direction and transversal will go down a lot if he can't keep up with your speed.
edit: if you use missiles and are close webs. if you are kiting with missiles painter is a good choice. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15337
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Posted - 2016.05.02 18:16:58 -
[5] - Quote
Nalia White wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: you have to consider your own movement though. just flat out saying that it reduces a stat is wrong :) nitpicking i know but if you orbit something at 5000 it doesn't mean that the transversal will go down too much. you get a more stable orbit which can even mean transversal gets up if you web a target. webs for range control. with range control you can actualy choose the transversal you want. double web on a battlecruiser against a small target let's you slowly coast away in one direction and transversal will go down a lot if he can't keep up with your speed. edit: if you use missiles and are close webs. if you are kiting with missiles painter is a good choice. all true of corse, hence why i linked to the euni page
Better the Devil you know.
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp The Tuskers Co.
426
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Posted - 2016.05.02 23:17:12 -
[6] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
missiles dont care about transversal.
Usually webs>painters though. |
Moonacre Parmala
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
17
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Posted - 2016.05.03 13:03:25 -
[7] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: missiles dont care about transversal. Usually webs>painters though.
Twin Target painters on a stealth bomber allows you to hit a cruiser as though it's a battleship
Law Number III: There are no lazy veteran lion hunters.
Law Number VI: A hungry dog hunts best. A hungrier dog hunts even better.
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If in doubt , SHOOT !
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2393
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Posted - 2016.05.03 13:13:07 -
[8] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: missiles dont care about transversal. Usually webs>painters though.
missiles do care about target vel though but yes targets sig is a bigger factor with missiles
Citadel worm hole tax
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Nalia White
Tencus
174
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Posted - 2016.05.03 15:57:47 -
[9] - Quote
Moonacre Parmala wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: missiles dont care about transversal. Usually webs>painters though. Twin Target painters on a stealth bomber allows you to hit a cruiser as though it's a battleship
This. on a bomber always target painters.
if you overheat 2 tech 2 painters it will effectively double the size of a target. target painters are heavily underrated my friends :) even on webbed non-AB destroyers you will do a lot of dps. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4391
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Posted - 2016.05.04 10:58:20 -
[10] - Quote
For turrets, a single web will have the same effect on tracking as more than doubling the target's sig radius (-60% transversal velocity = +150% sig radius as far as tracking is concerned).
For missiles, things are a bit different. Without going into too much detail, painters are certainly a must if your target's sig radius is smaller than your missile's explosion radius. Slowing them down is always effective, but your missiles won't hit for full damage even a motionless target if the target's sig is too low.
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Lydia Seii
Nuwa Foundation
1
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Posted - 2016.05.05 11:25:06 -
[11] - Quote
thanks all for your help guys. |
Zathra Narazi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2016.05.07 11:37:01 -
[12] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:missiles dont care about transversal. They do care about velocity. |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
296
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Posted - 2016.05.10 19:47:37 -
[13] - Quote
Lydia Seii wrote:hi! I have done some tests myself but it was still unclear that which one works better when it comes to 'big gun small target' scenario. for example: XL torpedo hitting battleships, I find its more rewarding to use a web than a painter. Meanwhile for HAW on naglfar I hit better with a target painter.
Anyone cares to explain? Thanks
Well it's quite simple, you look at a guns tracking speed and sig radius. If the target is exceeding your tracking speed you need a web, if the target is below your guns sig radius then you need a target painter.
SORRY, SORRY, ever so sorry, they changed all that. So now you look at your guns weapon accuracy score and just guess. Isn't that right CCP?
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.
Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5069
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Posted - 2016.05.10 23:54:01 -
[14] - Quote
Moonacre Parmala wrote:Twin Target painters on a stealth bomber allows you to hit a cruiser as though it's a battleship Twin precision-scripted missile guidance computers will actually deliver more damage application.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Specia1 K
State War Academy Caldari State
155
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Posted - 2016.05.12 00:15:37 -
[15] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Moonacre Parmala wrote:Twin Target painters on a stealth bomber allows you to hit a cruiser as though it's a battleship Twin precision-scripted missile guidance computers will actually deliver more damage application.
And delay aggressing your target. May be a desireable trait. |
Nalia White
Tencus
174
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Posted - 2016.05.12 16:46:44 -
[16] - Quote
Specia1 K wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Moonacre Parmala wrote:Twin Target painters on a stealth bomber allows you to hit a cruiser as though it's a battleship Twin precision-scripted missile guidance computers will actually deliver more damage application. And delay aggressing your target. May be a desireable trait.
i hope that is the case, because target painters have the huge bonus that it does not only apply to your own ship but to your friends as well. |
Specia1 K
State War Academy Caldari State
155
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Posted - 2016.05.12 23:11:32 -
[17] - Quote
Nalia White wrote:Specia1 K wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Moonacre Parmala wrote:Twin Target painters on a stealth bomber allows you to hit a cruiser as though it's a battleship Twin precision-scripted missile guidance computers will actually deliver more damage application. And delay aggressing your target. May be a desireable trait. i hope that is the case, because target painters have the huge bonus that it does not only apply to your own ship but to your friends as well.
Choices are always good |
Soldarius
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
1500
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Posted - 2016.05.14 18:51:28 -
[18] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Webs have nothing to do with transversal. They reduce the targeted ship's maximum velocity. DIrection is irerelevant.
In general, webs are more effective at increasing missiles damage to fast targets. But they don't do jack to a slow target.That is when you need target painters.
That being said, TPs have much greater range.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1211
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Posted - 2016.05.15 09:11:34 -
[19] - Quote
Lydia Seii wrote:hi! I have done some tests myself but it was still unclear that which one works better when it comes to 'big gun small target' scenario. for example: XL torpedo hitting battleships, I find its more rewarding to use a web than a painter. Meanwhile for HAW on naglfar I hit better with a target painter.
Anyone cares to explain? Thanks
No. If you didn't read the citadel 1.0 patch notes, you do not know that citadel torpedoes have an explosion radius of 10km.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
297
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Posted - 2016.05.15 21:57:33 -
[20] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Webs have nothing to do with transversal. They reduce the targeted ship's maximum velocity. DIrection is irerelevant. In general, webs are more effective at increasing missiles damage to fast targets. But they don't do jack to a slow target.That is when you need target painters. That being said, TPs have much greater range. Saying they have NOTHING to do with traversal is pretty disingenuous.
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.
Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp The Tuskers Co.
426
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Posted - 2016.05.15 23:25:57 -
[21] - Quote
Moonlit Raid wrote:Soldarius wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Webs have nothing to do with transversal. They reduce the targeted ship's maximum velocity. DIrection is irerelevant. In general, webs are more effective at increasing missiles damage to fast targets. But they don't do jack to a slow target.That is when you need target painters. That being said, TPs have much greater range. Saying they have NOTHING to do with traversal is pretty disingenuous.
Transversal is not velocity, you can have a target at 0m/s with 3k transversal, missiles have nothing to do with that stat. They only care about pure velocity. |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
298
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Posted - 2016.05.16 00:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Moonlit Raid wrote:Soldarius wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Webs have nothing to do with transversal. They reduce the targeted ship's maximum velocity. DIrection is irerelevant. In general, webs are more effective at increasing missiles damage to fast targets. But they don't do jack to a slow target.That is when you need target painters. That being said, TPs have much greater range. Saying they have NOTHING to do with traversal is pretty disingenuous. Transversal is not velocity, you can have a target at 0m/s with 3k transversal, missiles have nothing to do with that stat. They only care about pure velocity. So a web won't reduce a targets traversal [if it has one]? The above statement must be true for your statement to be true.
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.
Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp The Tuskers Co.
426
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Posted - 2016.05.16 00:04:50 -
[23] - Quote
Sort of, webs have nothing to do with transversal. If you are at 0m/s and a ceptor is orbiting you very fast with double webs on you you will have very high transversal on that ceptor, and vice versa. But velocity in itself has also nothing to do with transversal, you can have 0 transversal while going 20km/s.
To quote the eve uni wiki
Quote:Transversal Velocity
Transversal velocity in EVE describes the speed at which an object moves perpendicular to you, i.e. its orbital velocity. In other words, it is a metric used to describe the sideways movement of you and an object relative to one another. To get an sense of what this means, below is a list of some examples. A high transversal velocity occurs when: Two ships orbit one another at the same speed in opposite directions (maximal transversal) One ship orbits a stationary ship One ship flies "north" and the other flies "east/west" with respect to one another A low transversal velocity occurs when: Two ships fly directly away or toward one another (zero transversal) Two ships fly perfectly parallel to one another at the same speed (zero transversal) One ship chases the other ship The transversal velocity is computed by subtracting the two velocity vectors (i.e. both magnitude and direction) from one another, and then finding the length of the vector. This differs from angular velocity (below) in that it is not affected by the distance between both objects.
But if you are the ship at 0m/s webbing the ceptor will lower its transversal. So if you move at max speed and the other party moves at max speed webs will lower transversal simply because they reduce the velocity. |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
298
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Posted - 2016.05.16 00:09:27 -
[24] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote: webbing the ceptor will lower its transversal.
So webs affect traversal?
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.
Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp The Tuskers Co.
426
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Posted - 2016.05.16 00:17:26 -
[25] - Quote
You need 2 ships to have transversal, if you have a ship not moving and you web transversal wont change. If you have webs on moving ships webs can lower transversal.
Webs sort of reduce maximum possible transversal. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2821
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Posted - 2016.05.16 00:18:58 -
[26] - Quote
Moonlit Raid wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote: webbing the ceptor will lower its transversal.
So webs affect traversal?
It does in all* case where the target's movement is generating the transversal and does not when it's your own movement that does.
* Chances are we could find exceptions if we tried hard enough. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2036
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Posted - 2016.05.16 14:00:17 -
[27] - Quote
Being that todays pvp is kite dominant, painters are probably better than webs. Most ships spend most of their time staying out of web/scram range.
Lock, paint, shoot |
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