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Honneamise
Amarr
Biotech Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.23 23:51:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Osric Wuscfrea
Invention simply favours older players and makes them richer than they already are. Rich Industrialist also benefit. Sounds just like RL...
invention MAYBE can favour old players, but also it give no chanche at all to noobies .
look at this thread :
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=470233
does a noob player have 1 bil to waste ?
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Kralizek Kharr
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Posted - 2007.02.24 13:23:00 -
[32]
So i read most of posts here and still didn't find any solutions. Here is an idea what i think of 'How to get tech II BPO'
First of all i don't think that idea of taking existing bpo's from players is good - reason they earned that and should keep it otherwise there is no point to play that game - if i skill for something for a long time i wouldn't like an idea of taking it back from me later on, no matter what it was. BTW I am not an old player and I don't posses any tech II BPO's so just a clarification. Okey get to the point here it is:
- finish with lottery - no point to keep it at all because it will always be 'not fair' and ccp will end this moaning crowd of he got a BPO after a month i play for 3 years and still nothing
- introduce a 'Station Laboratory' for not specified amount of time but with isk/hour rent (it should be available only at stations which already have a R&D agents) but not like existing ones - just make it as a separate location inside a station with new screen etc. why? - keep reading :) but allow everybody to have one like an R&D agent
- now inside your laboratory specifiy what would you like to research - pick an existing item like 'Impel' , 'Modulated strip miner II' or even 'Hulk' whatever but it should be a particular one NOT a field in general as it is now with lottery.
- every laboratory depending on its size - small/medim /large have a number of vacancies for scientists/specialists
- introduce scientists on different fields with a different levels of wisdom/intelligence/experience
- after picking up a particular bpo you want to research, you get an information of what specialists you will need to work on it to get it (yes it MUST be a 100% chance to get BPO but it will take a long while and some effort to get it - not like with lottery - set up an agent and wait until someone will give you isk printing machine - science
isn't that easy in rl why should it be in EVE )
note researching a small item like 'cargohold expander II' will for example require only two specilaists while researching a ship let it be even 'Hulk bpo' 5 or more and they will need to be from different science fields like 'Galenteean Starship Engineer' + 'Mechanical Engineer' + 'Astrogeologist' etc.
- now scientists will be available to hire from a current R&D agent (they will cost you one time rp + their wage - an rp/day but obviously lower than your current rp/day gain - this will slow you down a little bit with getting too fast your rp's) and note you will need more than just a one agent to research a BPO cause you can't get all specialists from different fields just from one agent
- once you will hire first person to your laboratory - research began - it is possible to finish it (get a BPO) with only one but it will be veery slow so getting more of those will speed it up significantly
- there should be (in laboratory) research progress bar so you know how far you are to the end with your research (nobody likes when he can't see end of his work)
- laboratory may be fitted (like ships are) with various sophisticated equipment which will increase speed of getting bpo (like quantum microscope or neural analyzer etc. just imagination is a limit :), this equipment will be available from exploration site drops, agents/missions etc.
- sometimes on higher level BPO's like ships - without a particular item research will be halted on some stage or slowed down significantly so player will have to supervise and supply his team of scientists with various stuff - cpp don't let us sit and wait for fruits
- after a research you get your BPO, your lab is dismounted from all items (they go back to your hanger) but whole team goes back to home :) and you don't pay anymore wages or rent
continued....
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Kralizek Kharr
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Posted - 2007.02.24 13:25:00 -
[33]
- cpp should also introduce a skill like 'Research Team Management' with a high multiplier and with some prerequisities to allow for managing more than one specilaist at the same time, this way noobs (i am one :) ) won't get a fast chance to start with it
So here in short brief is this how i see a getting tech II BPO and just imagine how nice it will be with tech III - you find during expolration an ancient prints - you don't know what it is, you hire ancient technology translators specilaists, rent a lab and after some time they will tell you it must be kind of plan of new unknown weapon and
some specialists in.... field may now start research it :) jeez that would be awesome becuse here you don't know what u will get - that is preludium to tech III maybe too fast but we all know it will happen sooner or later :) with a 100% chance of it but looong time but show me one who won't wait :)
Some ppl will say ok but if everybody will start to research only best BPO's - 'Hulk' or similar then soon it will make no sense as market will fill up with those - correct but, people don't worry about market, it will take care of itself we all know that every market has its own rules and price is dictated by a 'CURRENT MINIMUM' so many hulks on market will finally drop its price to more sensible and ppl who hold their bpo's will have a cool down period to go for something else (more profitable) this way i think will be better cause it will give everybody same chance to earn isk. And remember researching bpo is a loong term investment in your lab and your team and u can have only one atm,so no worry with filling up a market in short time.
At the end i would leave an invetion as a short and cheaper way of getting bpc as not everybody needs a bpo!!
Now i'm waiting for opinions bad or good as long as they are constructive and supported with some reasonable arguments.
P.S. Sorry for my english as it is not my native language :P
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Elenit
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Posted - 2007.02.24 14:08:00 -
[34]
Invention IS the answer - if you can, eventually, turn a BPC into a BPO.
Existing T2 BPOs should remain and new ones should come online as a product of research.
The existing system has merits - but I'd prefer to see R&D agents offering T2 BPC's instead of BPOs. These BPCs can be used in invention, turned into sellable objects via manufacturing or further enhanced.
Page 18 of Ovurs recent blog Some Ideas - lists some ideas...
With invention working correctly those who put the time, effort and love in are rewarded. As more BPCs & BPOs are invented - the price of T2 items will normalise to their worth (ie construction cost).
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Elenit
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Posted - 2007.02.24 14:11:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Elenit on 24/02/2007 14:08:18
Originally by: Kralizek Kharr
...cpp should also introduce a skill like 'Research Team Management' with a high multiplier and with some prerequisities to allow for managing more than one specilaist at the same time, this way noobs (i am one :) ) won't get a fast chance to start with it
So here in short brief is this how i see a getting tech II BPO and just imagine how nice it will be with tech III - you find during expolration an ancient prints - you don't know what it is, you hire ancient technology translators specilaists, rent a lab and after some time they will tell you it must be kind of plan of new unknown weapon and
some specialists in.... field may now start research it :) ...
Had to snip it - but I love the idea!
Maybe invest in your R&D team (skill books, training, lab equipment) to improve their skills, chance of success, pace of R&D, etc.
It makes the process one that's dynamic, interactive and interesting..
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Avery Cane
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Posted - 2007.02.24 15:24:00 -
[36]
Removing t2 bpos would be bad business period for everyone. T2 prices would skyrocket. Invention will get tweaked for sure to make it easier. I agree with almost all of the OP statements. Eve has grown to the point that there is a need for steady t2 production, that is something that invention will not provide , keeping the orginal bpos does.
1. Not all bpos the everyone has acquired have come from the lotto. alot of people bought bpos. get rid of bpos would screw those people over.
2. 85% of t2 bpos dont make much money at all. by removing the orginals of these items will mean they will not be produced at all. i mean who is going to use rd points to get a not often used mod?
3. yes alot of t2 bpos owners are older players, so what. name a online game like eve where the vets dont have a advantage? the vets where the ones that kept this game going when eve had only like 1000 people playing the game. so to screw them over is wrong.
4. EVE has from last i heard going to have tech5 items. So tech 2 items are not the final word in making money in eve.
5. Everyone except maybe characters a month old have had a chance at the lotto. If you choose not to train the skills and get the standing, well that is not anyones fault but your own.
6. i would be all for all t2 items must be produced in a pos. that way there is more work involed and would make the pos fuels needed more and also add a bit of risk.
7. lets let invention try to work first before all the forum *****s burn down the forums with their " its not fair chants" CCp hasnt fixed invention yet that i and all the t2 bpos havent been given out so prices on some t2 items still may come down.
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Mortok Tristan
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Posted - 2007.02.28 12:04:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Mortok Tristan on 28/02/2007 12:03:49
Quote:
Evil conglomerates are formed and prices go up!
As you probably realize by now, ISK sellers go to great lengths to get their hands on ISK. Recently we busted a blueprint conglomerate that was set up just to skim ISK off the top. That extra ISK was then sold for real life currency. The players involved bought a large number of expensive blueprints over a long period of time with the purpose of monopolizing the market on certain items. They attempted to drive prices as high as possible so that they could skim more money off the top and sell more ISK on Ebay. This went on for some time and I am sure that a large number of the playerbase unknowingly felt the effect of this when buying ships and modules.
This conglomerate was found out and brought down by your friendly GMs and all those involved given a lifelong vacation from EVE. Their precious pile of blueprints will be reseeded to lucky players through the blueprint lottery. This is a perfect example of how those willing to buy ISK for real money can directly cause inflation and can end up costing the rest of the playerbase a lot of ISK.
Ionia, in light of the fact that the latest devblog just admitted there were T2 cartels , do you have any comments ?
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Sovereign533
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.28 12:10:00 -
[38]
well, i don't like this idea... cause look at the prices of the components to make the interfaces... also, look at the work needed to get one...
this won't mean a price increase of the t2 stuff already released... cause we have bpo's for those released... but what about the future t2 stuff? those won't get bpo's... so everything needs to be build by groups of ppl... ppl who probe, ppl who do the plex, ppl who hack, ppl who build the actual thing... somehow i think the regular eve player won't have access to... and i think that cause most of these stuff will be done in 0.0... we can see t2 equipment disappear from the empire market because what would you do as a corp? sell your stuff because so an enemy can get it? or keep them for your own alliance? i bet there are enough ppl within your own alliance to sell to...
i don't mind this whole invention stuff... but i don't like it that they are taking bpo's from the game...
signature removed - please email us to find out why - Jacques([email protected])
='(( they broke my sig... and does this count as a sigjack? |
DarVellon
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.28 12:44:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Kralizek Kharr
Here is an idea what i think of 'How to get tech II BPO'
My compliments, one of the best ideas I've seen so far.
I do so hope CCP will see and read this.
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GPszith
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Posted - 2007.02.28 12:45:00 -
[40]
To the poster above:
This idea would work fine for new bpos. CCP would just need to increase the drop rate off of invented items at first.
Otherwise, I like htis idea for a lot of reasons.
1. It uses supply and demand in determining how many bpos drop. If there aren't enough of a certain t2 bpo, then prices rise. This causes people to invent the items, which in turn causes more t2 bpos to be released. Either that or they could be released via the current system (ie research agents) and then just make the invention t2 bpos released addition bpos.
2. It protects the current bpos and wont completely ruin the market.
3. It requires people who want a bpo to work.
4. It allows newer and older players a chance, but the emphasis would be on the amount of actual time put in vs the amount of time sitting there waiting once you put the initial month in.
5. It doesn't completely remove the current purpose for the t2 research.
Good idea in my view.
GPz
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Fugly McTastic
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Posted - 2007.02.28 12:48:00 -
[41]
I can stand as proof that not all T2 bpo's are isk printing machines.
My Corp hold 7 T2 bpo's, and our Corp wallet has never gone over 1bill, it usually sits at about 300-700mill.
The reason for this is it takes alot of isk to produce any T2 item in bulk, and it can take a very long time to sell the low grade T2 items on the market.
To be honest, i can make more a month from T2 item resales, and Battlecruiser/Battleship Production then my Corp that holds the 7 T2 bpo's
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Kees
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.02.28 13:05:00 -
[42]
How about CCP exploring the BPC market. At the moment there is a relative amount of ease with which a player can get a T1 BPC for all ships and thus make the ship themselves from reprocessed minerals or mined minerals etc...
BUT
T2 BPC's are rediculously time consunming and complex to create and as such I very rarely see any T2 BPC's available. Could the copying process be simplifies for these so that T2 BPC's can begin to appear and more people can make T2 stuff? I can remember the days when if I wanted a covert ops ship I would go and buy the BPC from a player and make my own, now there appears to be a T2 market that consists solely of made items.
I personally would like to see T2 BPC's easier to make from BPO's so these can start to reappear and give a further option to players.
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'The man who used the universe' |
Ionia
Advanced Manufacturing
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Posted - 2007.02.28 22:33:00 -
[43]
Wow! Hadnt checked the replies on this for a few days, I'm so glad that there have been so many more good replies, and others putting their ideas forward (even if they dont agree with me.  )
It is so refreshing to see those kinds of constructive posts rather than the purely negative "xxxxx sucks" ones we have become so accustomed to on the forums, keep it coming!
By the way, kieron has been kind enough to bring this thread to the attention of the devs, so hopefully some of them will read it and realise that there is definately another side to the T2 debate, a side that cares a lot about it and has put a lot of thought into it.
Please, keep the discussion going like this, perhaps we could even change the minds of a few of those that are on the 'other side' 
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Lincoln Armm
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Posted - 2007.02.28 22:59:00 -
[44]
whats wrong with the lottery?
1) Its in-elastic. Every single T2 item has a cap to production. In demand T2 items thus always see a huge price increase which leaves a lot of players priced ouot of the market. THis isn't good from a game play point of view. This could be fixed partially by having periodic new releases but of course this only works one way, and exisiting BPO owners will see this as a "watering down" of the value of their BPO.
2) It is not directly related to actually being a industrialist. T2 production is the pinacle of the production artea of EVE. It requires the mostr skills, items, smarts etc. But you as a production player unless you are lucky or join a existing corp. THis is not a argument of new player vs old player, you may decide to become a industrialist after years of being a pirate for instance, but in most other areas of EVE you can pick a goal and shoot for it via that general activity. Mission running generates the faction you need to do better missions and the money you need to buy better stuff, trade build up your capital to do more trade, etc. Imagine if all of these activites had a randomly generated artifical bottleneck (you had to win a lottery to do level 4 missions for instance). Would this be a good game mechanic?
3) It is devisive. Any sort of extremely effective or "special" item that cannot be gotten by new players acts as a disincentive to those players and causes discontent. Does this mena you have nothing like this? No probably not as a reasonable amount of such items give the game a lot of flavor. The prize ships are a good example of this. Having a major system of your game work this way is not however a good idea.
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Ionia
Advanced Manufacturing
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Posted - 2007.02.28 23:07:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Lincoln Armm
whats wrong with the lottery?
Nothing at all IMO, but they are getting rid of it, we cant change that now, so I think we should look forward and not try to hang on to the past.
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Fenderson
OLE Mining Corp
Miners With Attitude
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Posted - 2007.02.28 23:49:00 -
[46]
the t2 lottery was a silly idea to begin with, but now that there are t2 BPOs in the game, any situation in which t2 BPOs completely cease to drop would be truly game-breaking.
i think that the overwhelming negative sentiment towards t2 BPOs simply stems from the fact that their supply has been so poorly managed in the past. if CCP were to give more attention to the t2 BPO supply and adjust it based on prices, and also make the system more transparent to the playerbase, the system would work alot better, and player confidence would be alot higher.
i am very much in favor of the OP's idea of shifting the lottery over to invention. its a very solid idea and as long as it is administered properly by GMs/Devs should solve the issues surrounding the t2 market.
got new corp, need new sig. mail me ingame. |
Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.01 00:37:00 -
[47]
Quote:
and also make the system more transparent to the playerbase, the system would work alot better, and player confidence would be alot higher.
Transparency is not their strong suit.
Invention will work to replace T2BPO's IF it's ever tweaked properly, it's not now, Can we say HULK??
If existing high end bpo's are left in game, then what was worth billions is now worth trillions as many people have said.
Also said:
A bpo will ALWAYS outproduce Invention due to Inventions nature.
(time/materials/CHANCE/etc)
End result WILL be a HUGE ASS BOOST to existing high end T2 bpo holders, many of which are in the hands of HUGE ASS ALLIANCES.
In effect, a nerf to everyone who produces without one, till the end of time.
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Trilliam Blackthorn
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Posted - 2007.03.01 00:50:00 -
[48]
I think the major issue here is the perception of fairness. For a game to be a completely level playing field, anything any player has should eventually be attainable by any other player through hard work and/or time....be it a ship, skills, or a BPO.
I have no problem with BPO holders keeping their BPO's, as long as I have the potential of getting one myself, and/or creating BPC's that would give me a comparable return. Anything less, and, intentional or not, one group as an insurmountable advantage that is unattainable by the rest of the "have-not" player base.
To players that argue that an older player "should" have an advantage over newer players I would submit that you do: in experience, accumulated wealth, and overall knowledge of a game that is arguably so complex that there are facets that newer players will always be "behind" on. To argue that a soon-to-be unattainable wealth-producing item should be rightfully exclusive to a subset of veteran players simply because they are that - veterans - is arguing in favor of hard-coding an imbalance directly into the game, plain and simple.
Again, for a game to be balanced, anything and everything one player has should eventually be attainable by any other player....through work, time, or good gameplay. No one should have a "divine right" to an insurmountable advantage.
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Lincoln Armm
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Posted - 2007.03.01 01:17:00 -
[49]
Your original post asked for a logical discussion of why the lottery system should be changed. You indicated that most people didn't like it due purely to selfish reasons. I posted to explain in game design terms what's wrong with it.
I agree that most of whats beleived to be evil cabals is actually simple market forces. I also agree that many T2 bpos aren't money priniting machines, but those are in my opinion, strawmen.
Well in order to talk about the future of T2 its important to understand whats wrong with the current system.
What do we want a t2 production system to do?
1) scale to demand
Invention has the potential to do this once the kinks are worked out.
2) be a natural progression/goal for industrialist players/corps
Invention as part of the play experience of a industrialist is a tougher sell. But since all the components are entering the game at a steady rate that somewhat maps to game pop/demand (because more players means more explorers and more demand for invention bits also means more explorers) it can be viewed as a simple capital expenditure unike BPOS which were simply to rare to be considered such.
3) Interconnect with lots of other game systems and cause a lot of game traffic (both physical and market).
Current T2 production does a fair job of this and invention just adds more to the mix.
Invention (once again when the kinks are out) is clearly superior as a game mechanic then the old BPO lottery the only question is what to do about the old BPOs?
Answer 1) just vanish them.
Well this has a bunch of obvious problems. First off it would cause a bunch of corps to lose their income instantly. It would crash the t2 market followed by the minerlal market, and it would make a great number of players very unhappy. It also brings up the issue of the many players who have invested in the lottery system as its presently constituted, althougth they can in theory be compensated through the data core mechainsm or other invention based payoffs (turn in rp for encrytors for instance).
Answer 1) Leave them in as artifacts.
This is certainly a possibility but will tend to create a two tier system where low demand t2s are meant mostly or entirely by BPO production and high demand goods will be met with a mix. As these tiers can switch back and forth this will cause a lot of problems (i.e. corps setting up invention lines and then having a dip in demand causing them to be completely cut out of the market).
Invention only producers will ALWAYS be at a huge disadvantage. All production based corps will be broken into three levels those with "hot" bpos which are making very large profits along with possibly other bpos and or invention lines. Those with ok BPOS who also use invention, and finally those with only invention available.
I can't see how this sort of permament caste based system is a good idea.
In many ways this is worse then just continuing the lottery. A single unified system of t2 production is much preferable to having multiple systems.
2) converting them into long run BPCs
In many ways this really similar to 1 depending on the number of runs. If its a years worth of production for instance. It does have the advantage of eventually having the BPOs vanish in a fairly graceful way. It will however make exisiting BPO owners unhappy and leaves unresolved the issue of all the current lottery players.
It has the advantage of simplicity but it has several issues. If most of the long run BPCs turn off at once you'll get a huge market fluctuation. Alternatly people could horde their LRBPCs now, waiting for the price to jump thus causing a bunch of market fluctuations. All sorts of havok is possible.
3) SOme solution that would fold the BPOs into the invention system. Perhaps they could act as really good encryptors but just for that one item. Unfortunetly I'm not intimatly familiar with the invention system so its hard to come up with something specific
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Liliane Woodhead
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Posted - 2007.03.01 03:23:00 -
[50]
Keep the lottery. Why ? I invested time, work, skills and money.
And hmmm, what is invention ? Its for idiots like me to get arsed. One guy in this thread said that the runs from invention bpc's where changed. Nothing in the patch notes ....
Where's a manual ?
Where are formulas about it ?
P.S.: dont buy high end decryptors for your isk. the 4 runs on modules you get are not worth it *cough*
Thanks CCP for another "working" expansion in our daily hell, aehm universe 
Quote:
Most of the discussion I have found to be non-contructive and often illogical, so im going to try to provide a clearer take on the situation, as well as my opinions on the various issues.
There is too less information on the whole thing. I want a manual for this isk-sink called invention. Then we can discuss whats good and bad.
Yours ( today  ) Woodhead.
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Miranda Duvall
Gallente
OPM Holdings
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Posted - 2007.03.01 11:08:00 -
[51]
I love the idea of having your own lab with "fitting".
Us scientists dont give a **** about cool ships and modules other then their profit potential, yet fitting and tuning and especially pimping your ship is one of the fun parts in eve.
Instead of a ship, give us "rooms" in a station (personal labs) with fitting slots, and skills to have more slots/bigger lab/use cooler modules. We could have all sorts of goodies in there, geared towards a specific invention path. The goodies can come from cosmos/exploration sites. We could even have named, faction or T2 goodies :)
It should cost a bundle of isk, and lots of time, but its something you can start small and build from there, like your favorite faction fitted navy raven: those usually take a tun of isk and time to get "just right" 
Isn't it great being a skill collector?
Top 20
My Skills |
Jenn Atreides
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Posted - 2007.03.01 11:24:00 -
[52]
I contimue to submit that removing the BPO's and changing the lotery system is a kneejerk reaction.
Continue to lottery the t2 and introduce the t3 as multirun BPC's as research agents rewards.
The biggest beef I have with the current system is that once you manage to get a level 4 research agent you max your skills in that field and then sit back and watch teh rp's roll in day after day without having to do anything further. It should be more like mission agents you do the missions to get the rp's and then you spend the rp's on offers or you save them to get better offers. (or in this case a t2 BPO)
So that would have three types of BPO's given in three different ways.
Jenn
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Lord XSiV
Amarr
The Nine Gates
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Posted - 2007.03.01 11:26:00 -
[53]
Hey guys, give CCP some credit and a bit of time to work it out. As a t2 bpo owner, I have enough confidence in CCP to work it out a nice balance that benefits the game. It may take a few tries and some tweaking, but they will get it right eventually. The game is too complex for any players to fully understand as we don't have access to the inner workings, statistics, number crunching and to be quite frankly honest the intelligence required to figure it out.
I will say this though, CCP has stated that they look at the usage statisitcs for these 'mini-professions' and work out the balance based on those numbers. They did this with salvaging and I don't see anyone griping about it anymore, so give them a chance with the invention side of the fence. So as a player base, you can influence CCP by not performing invention right now due to the high cost of the components (skills, interfaces, etc) which they will then balance out.
Honestly from a researcher/industry perspective, I would love to see more availability of tech 2 stuff out on the market even if it would negatively affect my own personal t2 production profits in the immediate term. I would then adapt and become more competitive, because quite frankly it is way too easy right now if you do have the right t2 bpos and I am all for giving players 'a kick in the pants', especially that Dark Shikari guy and his little blue thingies.....
:)
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sorilin
Amarr
Setenta Corp
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.01 11:28:00 -
[54]
ye well.. i have 5 rd agents... non gives anyting. not a even a small rocket bpo.. i know people ingame who WON the lotery several times.. yes it might be LUCK but damn... i say we make the agents open shops.. like mentioned somewhere in a dev blog.. make shops where u can buy stuff for your rd points.. some t2 cost litlle bgut good ones cost more, and u need to save up rd points to be able to buy em.. this way the ol dplayers still have an advandgtege, wich i really think they should ( me being one he he ) but then all will have the ability to EVENTUALLY get a bpo. IF thats what they want.. all bpo wich is out should remain out. hell even make the one u buy bpc. or maybe if bpc cost less than bpo..
this will make way for invention to t3. yes invention should be for the t3 stuff. not t2.
a print like the hulk price check in rd points:
bpc: 10 run 25.000 rd points
bpc: 25 run 40.000 rd points
bpc: 50 run 60.000 rd points
bpc: 100 run 90.000 rd points
bpo: infinitive 150.000 rd points
this is FAIR and it owuld stil take a LONG time if u want a bpo.. but u would be able to get some..
this is how the system would be fair. lottery is ummm ya well to much luck for some.. and yes i am lucky in love. but i also want some chance in getting a bpo in eve,,
I am the borg! |
Ionia
Advanced Manufacturing
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Posted - 2007.03.01 11:33:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Kralizek Kharr
Here is an idea what i think of 'How to get tech II BPO'
Your idea is very innovative, the main issue I would have with it is that it would basically be a grind system, because you do X amount of work for Y amount of time and you 100% get a bpo.
New players would obviously be at a disadvantage. Older/Richer players would be able to set up large numbers of accounts and simply farm the BPOs.
I think any grind-based system is really open to exploitation, so I do think there has to be a chance-based element.
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.03.01 18:02:00 -
[56]
Tech 2 BPO's MUST be removed in some fashion if they will no longer be dropped. Many other posters have made it abundantly clear that Invention will never match the efficiency of a Tech 2 BPO. Therefore keeping them in the game will always be unfair.
A small case has also been made that it would be unfair to simply remove the BPO's. While I have no pity for those who got a BPO from the Lottery, I'm a bit squeamish about those who bought them.
So the question for me is how to remove the BPO's and still keep some fairness. My answer is simple: Introduce Risk into the T2 production system.
As it stands, anyone with a T2 BPO will put it in a station and never again venture into space with it. Meanwhile, the Inventors, Explorers, and Moon Miners all incur risks and costs.
The first option I suggest is to move all T2 manufacturing to POS's, and don't allow Remote Manufacturing. Make the T2 Producers put the BPO into an attackable place, so that the BPO's can be destroyed. We have seen in the recent war how important Shipyards are - make T2 production just as much of a target. This element of risk at least removes the 'I Win cuz I got a T2 BPO' button. But it still leaves the Inventors at a disadvantage.
The second option is to have T2 BPO's take damage, just like Laser Crystals do today. This introduces a chance-based element to T2 BPO's just like the Inventors suffer. Those who purchaced BPO's would then have time to recoup some costs, while the Lotto winners would eventually lose their Artifact items.
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