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Heavy Missiles Vs. Heavy Assult Missiles

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Dbase	Posted - 2007.02.23 16:31:00 - [1] My small brain tells me HAM's would do more dps than regular heavies? is the extra training worth it? Thanks Dbase
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG	Posted - 2007.02.23 16:41:00 - [2] They do do more DPS, but I wouldn't have said it's really worth the time. They have a range of about 13km.
Dbase	Posted - 2007.02.23 16:46:00 - [3] Thats what I was looking for. thanks M8
SFShootme The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 16:55:00 - [4] Edited by: SFShootme on 23/02/2007 16:52:59 18% more dps Tho shall give Life, for Life.
Sexorella hotz Beasts of Burden	Posted - 2007.02.23 17:37:00 - [5] Edited by: Sexorella hotz on 23/02/2007 17:34:02 Originally by: Dark Flare They do do more DPS, but I wouldn't have said it's really worth the time. They have a range of about 13km. T2 rockets can hit at 30km, so if you're considering at all going up into t2, I bet there's an equivalent benefit in HAMs. This is of course on ships with flight time and velocity bonuses(IE cerberus, caracal)
John Blackthorn Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.23 18:38:00 - [6] Heavy assult missles do not always have a better dps.. In fact I havn't seen a case made yet that shows them ever having a better dps. But in my case, I fly a huggin and get a rof bonus to HAM and Heavy Missle launchers. Heavy launchers do about 10% more damage than HAM. Ham have a limted range and deal 100 base damage at a faster ROF to Heavy Missles. Heavy missles do 150 base damage at a much greater range. Each type of missle Light, heavy, cruise, torp have a stat that is used in dealing damage to smaller targets. HAM's have the same stat as Heavy Missles. thus HAM's are no better at hitting a frigate than a heavy missle, they actually do less damage. The ROF bonus that I get on my huggin makes the Heavy launcher very close in speed to the HAM (about 2 seconds differnce i think) ---------- Hiting a Battle ship you do more dps with heavy launchers, I don't feel the extra firing speed of a HAM launcher will off-set the extra 50 damage the missle does. ---------- I am assuming level 5 ham, level 5 heavy, level 4 specialzations.
IRS Informant Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:16:00 - [7] umm... Think your calcs are a bit off there John.. A HAM does 100 base dmg, with a ROF of 8.0sec (standard T1 HAM Lnchr) for 12.5 dps.. Hvy Missile does 150 base dmg, with a ROF of 15.0sec (standard T1 Hvy Lnchr) for 10 dps.. HAM launchers do more damage, period.. Even taking into account named or T2, HAMs still do more dps.. Their downside is the abyssmal range.. Normal Heavies will usually be more useful in a variety of situations.. Personally, I'd never use HAMs on anything that doesn't have a 50%+ Missile Velocity bonus.. So while I agree that Heavies are generally better, the HAMs do indeed inflict more damage (with equal skills)..
KaptnSparrow Caldari TARDZ Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:35:00 - [8] hm are just doing more but only shine on ships with range bonus and hey john. ...eve's worst pirate... ...if I missed killmails of the past, please update the killboard!
Veneth	Posted - 2007.02.23 20:06:00 - [9] There's a few skills to take into account as well, I seem to remember guided missile skills not working with HAMs thus getting even lower damage against smaller targets
Ockk	Posted - 2007.02.23 20:26:00 - [10] Tech 2 HAMs are awesome though. With Javelins loaded, my drake can hit things over 55KM away and the dps is really good. On a cerberus it must be even better.
John Blackthorn Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.23 20:37:00 - [11] Ok here is what I did. Use shipfiter. give yourself skills to use a huggin. level 5 heavy missles level 5 HAM. Level 1 specialation. Select kenetic missles, and select target raven. Heavy missles will do about 12% more damage than HAM. Select Cruiser and heavy missles do about 5-6% more damage. Select frigate and it too shows heavy missles doing 5-6% more. Now, the ship bonus of ROF may affect this. On a ship with no ROF bonus, then HAM may indeed do more dps. But considering that 100 vs 150 base damage and the HAM missles have the same "blast radious" I don't see how.
Choran Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.02.23 20:42:00 - [12] HAMs also take more powergrid, +20mw base. In most of my Heavy Missile Launcher setups, I can't just swap them for HAMs because of the increased powergrid need. For example, you'd never want to put a full rack of HAMs on a Drake in my opinion because you'd be nerfing your tank and the Drake doesn't get a velocity bonus. The only ships I might put them on would be a Cerb or Caracal.
Zyrla Bladestorm Minmatar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.23 20:50:00 - [13] The damage vs smaller targets can be explained by HAM being in the same category as rockets and torpedoes - "Unguided" and therefore not getting the bonus from the precision skill .. doing less DPS to ravens has me scratching my head though. . ----- It's great being Minmatar, ain't it? Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Mudkest	Posted - 2007.02.23 21:29:00 - [14] Originally by: John Blackthorn The ROF bonus that I get on my huggin makes the Heavy launcher very close in speed to the HAM (about 2 seconds differnce i think) thing with huggin is, its "long" range support ship 30-45km web, painter bonus makes it really nice for shooting at 30-45km, specialy against frigates. Why waste that range advantage on 12km HAM range? HAM are nice for AC setups though(AC cause mini ships usualy have a few spare missile slots that I dont think blasterboats and ZOMG LASORS PEWPEW! ships have) and if your fitting long range turrets things shouldnt really get inside HAM range(and against tacklers light assault launcher works better) -Though I fly through the Valley of Death... I shall fear no evil. For I am at 80,000 feet and climbing. ~At the entrance to the old SR-71 operating base Kadena, Okinawa
Phish1 Liberty Forces Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 21:40:00 - [15] they should be what rockets are to the light missile, shorter range but higher DPS, give them a faster ROF and less fitting reqs to bring them in line with what a rocket launcher is: standard launcher I: 8 PG rocket launcher I: 4 PG standard is twice the PG need of the rocket heavy launcher I: 100 PG heavy assualt launcher I: 120 PG WTF!!!! I say 20 difference is pretty fair, but make it 20 below, so bring the HAL to 80 PG per...
Siakel	Posted - 2007.02.23 21:47:00 - [16] Originally by: John Blackthorn Ok here is what I did. Use shipfiter. give yourself skills to use a huggin. level 5 heavy missles level 5 HAM. Level 1 specialation. Select kenetic missles, and select target raven. Heavy missles will do about 12% more damage than HAM. Select Cruiser and heavy missles do about 5-6% more damage. Select frigate and it too shows heavy missles doing 5-6% more. Now, the ship bonus of ROF may affect this. On a ship with no ROF bonus, then HAM may indeed do more dps. But considering that 100 vs 150 base damage and the HAM missles have the same "blast radious" I don't see how. Then the ship-fitter you are using is wrong. Heavy Assault Missiles should always do 25% more DPS than Heavy Missiles against Cruiser or larger sized targets. If WNP doesn't work on Heavy Assault Missiles, then Heavy Missiles may indeed be better against Frigates, though I'm not sure. How you can possibly think a RoF bonus would suddenly make one missile do more DPS than the other, I can only wonder at.
Neuromandis EPSILON TEAM Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.24 02:45:00 - [17] Edited by: Neuromandis on 24/02/2007 02:44:45 Quote: How you can possibly think a RoF bonus would suddenly make one missile do more DPS than the other, I can only wonder at. Well, in Eve by DPS we mean Damage Per Second not Damage per Strike, we usually say Damage per Hit or Alpha for that. For the part of Cruiser or Larger sized, not all cruisers have the same signature radius (the stabber has only 105m for example), and Heavy missiles benefit from Guided Missile Precision, hence they do more damage against the smaller cruisers that will reduce the damage of the HAM's that DONT benefit from that skill.
Siakel	Posted - 2007.02.24 03:47:00 - [18] Originally by: Neuromandis Well, in Eve by DPS we mean Damage Per Second not Damage per Strike, we usually say Damage per Hit or Alpha for that. Yes. And? A RoF bonus increases DPS of the weapons fitted by 33%. It doesn't matter if you're fitting assault launchers, or heavy assault launchers, or heavy missile launchers. They all get increased DPS by 33%. Thus, a RoF bonus, as I said, does not increase the DPS of one missile type any more than it increases the DPS of another missile type. Originally by: Neuromandis For the part of Cruiser or Larger sized, not all cruisers have the same signature radius (the stabber has only 105m for example), and Heavy missiles benefit from Guided Missile Precision, hence they do more damage against the smaller cruisers that will reduce the damage of the HAM's that DONT benefit from that skill. Only if the explosion/signature radius loses the HAM 25% or more DPS. And, as the Stabber's signature is not 25% lower than the 125m explosion radius of the HAM, the HAM will still do around 6% more DPS to even the Stabber.
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.02.24 03:53:00 - [19] Most missle ships are not agile enought o effectively use Hams.
Scordite	Posted - 2007.02.25 05:33:00 - [20] Originally by: Audri Fisher Most missle ships are not agile enought o effectively use Hams. I believe "mobile" is a better word. Incidentally, if the scari is reworked to a missile boat with rof and some other missile bonus (velocity?), that should work rather well for HAMs.. Room for tackle, mwd, injector without completely messing up the tankage. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Maeltstome	Posted - 2007.02.25 05:59:00 - [21] I've seen a drake with a full load of HAM's, MWD + scram + active tank and speed mods in the lows take out 2 BS's, 2on1. They fit easier, freeing up lo slots... do that math.

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