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Aertuun
Ars ex Discordia
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 01:44:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Aertuun on 24/02/2007 01:40:59
Someone mentioned this subject briefly on another thread (which was soon-after consigned to oblivion). My initial reply was meant as a bad kind of joke,
"Given that this is a space game, what is this fabled high ground that you speak of?"
Yes, I know.
However, a couple of posters answered it semi-seriously, so I thought an actual thread on the subject might be interesting.
Where is the moral and ethical high ground in EVE, and how does an Alliance get there?
Once an Alliance is actually there, does it have any advantages, or will they be at a disadvantage against Alliances who have less scruples (in one form or another)?
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Kael Zeratul
The Huns
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.02.24 01:47:00 -
[2]
first ibtl
Sig coming soon to a forum near you |
Cattraknoff
Caldari
Black Lance
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.24 01:47:00 -
[3]
TBH it doesn't really matter. If you exploit and such, you won't make many friends. But being on the moral high ground doesn't count for much. People who cheer for you because of it are useless in the end. Morals should have very little to do with an alliance's choice. First and foremost comes what benefits you the most, what helps you win (as long as it isn't against the rules) is what you do.
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Turas Kain
Minmatar
Dark Moon Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.24 01:53:00 -
[4]
If you choose to act based on the moral high ground then I would say you are at a disadvantage. If an alliance decides it will never use login traps, then they are immediately at a disadvantage to an enemy that will. If nothing else because they have nullified a potential tactic regardless of any situations it would benefit them in.
I personally hate login traps by the way, just an example. Would have no quim in using them against others who did however.
The same goes for spies. If an alliance choose to not use them on a moral basis, again at a disadvantage to an alliance that will.
Adapting the moral low ground is what tends to spread, rather rapidly. A result of the advantages it gives.
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Graalum
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.02.24 01:55:00 -
[5]
I don't think login traps exist. Never seen one or been victim of one.
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RaptorX
Black Lance
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.24 02:03:00 -
[6]
This is how I see things...
High ground ----> Bigger guns
Low ground ----> Getting owned by the bigger guns
RaptorX
p.s. It's a game
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munchy
Prison Break Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.24 02:13:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Graalum
I don't think login traps exist. Never seen one or been victim of one.
i envy you
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Helganstandt
Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2007.02.24 02:21:00 -
[8]
Originally by: RaptorX
This is how I see things...
High ground ----> Bigger guns
Low ground ----> Getting owned by the bigger guns
RaptorX
p.s. It's a game
I don't think it could be said much better than this to be honest.
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Jacqueline Skouris
Eth3real
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Posted - 2007.02.24 02:29:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jacqueline Skouris on 24/02/2007 02:25:55
I think Green Day said it well. "Nice guys finish last."
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Major Jacqueline Skouris of the Eth3real Navy.
Serenity is worth fighting for! |
Minigin
Caldari
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.02.24 02:54:00 -
[10]
in all honesty i think that a moral high ground does exist. its somthing that you really should have been raised with. i hear the argument "its just a game..." way to often but really i think the fact that it is a game encourages us to be fair about the way we play. if you dont cheat what do you stand to lose but virtual currency. whereas if you do you cheat you lose respect. Its a game... you dont need to cheat... play fair and have a great game!
ps: cheating is perhaps a strong word but its the general bending of the rules that we use to keep this game fair!
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Thundirr
Amarr
Mercurialis Inc.
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.02.24 02:55:00 -
[11]
I think the moral high ground would belong to the true Role Players in EVE... Everything else is a gray zone of junk. Everyone is the same and everyone is different and we all have done, seen, or been part of something that could be considered moral low groundish, and then its just a matter of how much lower your opponent is or how low you make him look/seem.
What are you willing to do to win?
Lawful good, or Lawful evil?
Blah its an unanswerable question in Eve. Those who come closest to any kind of high ground are those who are role players and play the game according to their RP stuff.
Thundirr out.
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HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Minigin
in all honesty i think that a moral high ground does exist. its somthing that you really should have been raised with. i hear the argument "its just a game..." way to often but really i think the fact that it is a game encourages us to be fair about the way we play. if you dont cheat what do you stand to lose but virtual currency. whereas if you do you cheat you lose respect. Its a game... you dont need to cheat... play fair and have a great game!
ps: cheating is perhaps a strong word but its the general bending of the rules that we use to keep this game fair!
i almost lol everytime i hear the phrase 'moral high ground' in these forums.
funny, i went years without ever hearing it, i've probly heard it 10 times this last week on the forums.
no alliance in this game can seriously claim any kind of higher morals over another group. if they do they are just shoveling hypocritical shyte.
I have met PLAYERS in this game that i believe have a high moral standard, but the idea any group/corp/alliance holds a higher ground than another on this topic is just silly.
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From here on out i'm pretty sure CAOD forums = Jerry Springer
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Flicky G
the Organ Grinder and Company
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:24:00 -
[13]
The term 'sportsmanship' doesn't get raised much in MMO's
But it does get raised quite a bit in other 'games'.... like erm... sports.
From good old dictionary.com:
1.the character, practice, or skill of a sportsman.
2.sportsmanlike conduct, as fairness, courtesy, being a cheerful loser, etc.
Note #2.
o/
Flicky
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Minigin
Caldari
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.02.24 04:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: HankMurphy
Originally by: Minigin
in all honesty i think that a moral high ground does exist. its somthing that you really should have been raised with. i hear the argument "its just a game..." way to often but really i think the fact that it is a game encourages us to be fair about the way we play. if you dont cheat what do you stand to lose but virtual currency. whereas if you do you cheat you lose respect. Its a game... you dont need to cheat... play fair and have a great game!
ps: cheating is perhaps a strong word but its the general bending of the rules that we use to keep this game fair!
i almost lol everytime i hear the phrase 'moral high ground' in these forums.
funny, i went years without ever hearing it, i've probly heard it 10 times this last week on the forums.
no alliance in this game can seriously claim any kind of higher morals over another group. if they do they are just shoveling hypocritical shyte.
I have met PLAYERS in this game that i believe have a high moral standard, but the idea any group/corp/alliance holds a higher ground than another on this topic is just silly.
yeh i spose i agree. i dont think there is any alliance that is particularly moral however i personaly do not subscribe to underhanded tactics if the situation allows it.
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patteSatan
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.24 05:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Thundirr
I think the moral high ground would belong to the true Role Players in EVE... Everything else is a gray zone of junk. Everyone is the same and everyone is different and we all have done, seen, or been part of something that could be considered moral low groundish, and then its just a matter of how much lower your opponent is or how low you make him look/seem.
What are you willing to do to win?
Lawful good, or Lawful evil?
Blah its an unanswerable question in Eve. Those who come closest to any kind of high ground are those who are role players and play the game according to their RP stuff.
Thundirr out.
This post ftw!!
In my eyes, he nailed the rp bit, that we all do, even if we dont think about it, we started rp:ing when we chose the characters race we play with, we choose when we join corps, we choose when our corp joins an alliance.
I'm a true neutral, as we kill all in 0.0, I was chaotic good in celtic industries (way before this war started), so basically, im a druid, fit for fighting, but in this game, cant transform an Ibis into a Titan, :D
<br>
...you women are creepy, but amusing as hell.
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Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.24 05:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Cattraknoff
TBH it doesn't really matter. If you exploit and such, you won't make many friends. But being on the moral high ground doesn't count for much. People who cheer for you because of it are useless in the end. Morals should have very little to do with an alliance's choice. First and foremost comes what benefits you the most, what helps you win (as long as it isn't against the rules) is what you do.
That is unless you have a code and ethics on what you will and what you won't do to win. Simply holding your own and the high ground at that might be enough for some. This 'winning' you refer to is an elusive tangent.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
STK Scientific
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.24 06:33:00 -
[17]
If one is going to claim the moral and ethical high ground in EVE they best bring an oxygen tank. The altitude tends to mess with one's thinking.
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Jonny Damordred
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.02.24 06:37:00 -
[18]
There are no innocents in EvE, no real good or bad guys either.
Cheers,
Jonny D.
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PDoggy
Minmatar
Valid Character Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.24 06:39:00 -
[19]
The moral high ground is obviously the forums wherein one can post about the "lag tactics" and "deliberate node-crashing" of their opponents to their hearts' content!
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Wait for your email, do not put it back - Ductoris |
Dragerest
Omega Enterprises
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.24 06:41:00 -
[20]
i guess some dev alliance likes to go on other alliance's KB and post"OMG" stuff on there.. is that the high road?
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Nedolzna Ovcica
Mindstar Brigade
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Posted - 2007.02.24 07:21:00 -
[21]
it's hard to claim a highground if we're all standing in the mud.
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Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.24 07:36:00 -
[22]
As I replied, check my sig; the answer lies therein.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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mr bighelmet
EnTech
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Posted - 2007.02.24 07:48:00 -
[23]
I find it funny that people explain that if you keep your own belives in what's right or wrong you will lose adventage and can't win.
For me the winning come from having fun, this is a game after all and i pay CCP so i could play the game and have fun, if i need to brake my belief in what's right or wrong to "win" the game then it is no longer fun and it's time to find something else to play.
just my 2c
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Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.24 08:33:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 24/02/2007 08:30:45
So many people have spent so much effort blurring the lines in this game that none of us have clean hands. We all have our own moral compass to guide us, and our enemy's actions to reinforce our own sense of self worth.
The moral high ground can be found after every battle one million kilometres from the swathe of wrecks. You'll find me there in a cloaker killing your pods
*shrug*
Myn
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Tetsujin
Caldari
Band of Brosefs
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Posted - 2007.02.24 08:52:00 -
[25]
Yeah that's about the gist of it Mynas.
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MeatwagonUK
M. Corp
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.24 10:01:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Graalum
I don't think login traps exist. Never seen one or been victim of one.
Good logic. I've never seen an erebus, so they don't exist either.
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Mattduk
Gallente
Universal Army
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Posted - 2007.02.24 10:32:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kael Zeratul
first ibtl
This is precisely the problem facing the mature people of Eve today. High ground is impossible to attain while you have members of your corp/alliance/species posting this kind of nonsense.
Everytime I see this kind of reply I think, 'one born evey minute'. 
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Fitz Chivalry
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.24 11:10:00 -
[28]
Bascially whichever side I am on at the time is the one with the moral high ground and its the same for 95% of the people out there I would assume (aside from the wannabee badasses (of which there seem to be more and more everyday)).
I have never once felt like I was on the side of the bad guys, even when I was involved with stuff that (if I was on the other side) would have seemed bad, like steamrollering tribal souls, ganking neutrals when in the North, taking Fatals outpost, its all very easy to justify stuff to yourself and we all do it "oh they are allied with such and such therefore its ok", "they are from the north and therefore automatically bad", "he killed my hauler", "he made a post i didnt like on CAOD" etc etc.
.
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Shirei
Minmatar
Cutting Edge Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.02.24 11:11:00 -
[29]
Should some try staying on the high ground, everyone else will try to drag them down immediately. 
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MassonA
Caldari
coracao ardente
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 13:00:00 -
[30]
its hard to define a 'high ground' when it all comes down to personal opinion
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