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Requesting some Info on LV

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Coquillette Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.24 11:50:00 - [91] Edited by: Coquillette on 24/02/2007 11:47:06 Quote: fact still remains that finfleet is perfectly within their legal rights to file criminal charges towards that person Could you post here a (short) translation of the Finnish law you're referring to ?
Kian Jorry Black Omega Security Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.24 12:02:00 - [92] Originally by: Nebuchadnezzar I Edited by: Nebuchadnezzar I on 24/02/2007 11:41:29 Edited by: Nebuchadnezzar I on 24/02/2007 11:40:53 I believe there also is a chatlog and or message from the finnish dude explaining it a bit more in detail. I remember, without going back to check it, that from reading what he had to say he didnt think much of it himself, but that it rather was something he mentioned in connection with his work (or something) to a prosecutor (or whoever does the investigation in Finland) he happens to deal with through his work. And that this person then simply asked for logs and would "look into it" - i remember my clear understanding after readong the thread was that this wasnt very serious in any case. Edit: Reading the last bit: Xendie: You are making alot of assumptions regarding which rules apply when, when on the internet and when said use gives one sovereign entity the right to prosecute a citizen of another sovereign entity. In other words, a maggot snitched.
Midfrost IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2007.02.24 12:08:00 - [93] Lolers! That's almost as pathetic as me threatening that I will kick the living s**t out of RL BoB members in Gothenburg, Sweden! Cheers! Fin-whoever you are... piles of pathetic excuses for dregg. -Standard lines etc etc- »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
Algey The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.02.24 12:15:00 - [94] Originally by: Watauga Originally by: Xendie the american first amendment dont give ppl the right to commit crimes and especially not in other countries. it gives you the right to free speach iirc in the united states of america. I was using the First Amendment as an example to legal protection to rights of privacy. The First Amendment gives me more rights than free speech, by the way. Nowhere in the US Constitution goes it explicitly state a right to privacy but many legal scholars believe it is implied using the First and Fourth Amendments. I used the First Amendment as an example because The Bill of Rights weren't pulled out of a hat but are founded in English and European legal tradition, such as, the English Bill of Rights of 1689. Back to point I was trying to make about CCP, it would reasonable to assume that Iceland would have similar protections for privacy and CCP like many computer companies would fight to protect theirs. FYI, Iceland is a member of the Council of Europe and in 1950, it adopted the European Convention on Human Rights which gives at least some protection of privacy. In the EU data is not private from prosecutors, that is specifically stated in the data protection legislation. They could simply ask for the persons details. Also they could look at the server logs for the forum in question and demand the details from the persons ISP. One thing that numerous spies have done in this game is to use other peoples logins on private forums, which is a crime under data protection laws (you don't own the login, the server admin assigns it to a certain person and that isn't transferable). However one would hope that something like this would be laughed out of court, I'm just not certain that it would be these days.
Luthien Firefoot Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.02.24 12:29:00 - [95] I've seen some weird and dumb things on this forum, but this goes in the trophy cabinet. The pilot from goonfleet has absolutely nothing to worry about. Moreover, if the LV chappie does pursue this, thereby taking an ingame action out of game, he is the one who will ultimately suffer. I imagine his personal details will be revealed, somehow and then he may have to deal with the repercussions of that.
putukas Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.02.24 12:30:00 - [96] Edited by: putukas on 24/02/2007 12:27:55 stealing identity is serious crime in finland and also in estonia! so be careful what you say here :p
Blackpanter Gallente Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.02.24 12:40:00 - [97] Its true . Finfleet are retaining the legal services of Lionel Hutz to pursue this action .
Eddie Exotic Dancers Club Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.24 12:50:00 - [98] most stupid thing ever. Originally by: Riddari -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OFFICIAL BOB wins EVE-OFFLINE Lets see how EVE-ONLINE goes.
Ravysa Delorean Amarr Torro Negro Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.02.24 13:01:00 - [99] Originally by: putukas Edited by: putukas on 24/02/2007 12:27:55 stealing identity is serious crime in finland and also in estonia! so be careful what you say here :p Identity in a computer GAME G A M E -> an entertaining activity or sport, especially one played by children, or the equipment needed for such an activity
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2007.02.24 13:09:00 - [100] I would pay to go to the court that day lol and watch the complainer get cut in pieces. a lawyer would love that kind of case ------

Topaz Skydiver Minmatar Narrative Freshfood	Posted - 2007.02.24 13:27:00 - [101] Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 24/02/2007 13:25:17 If the guy hasn't signed some sort of non-disclosure agreement that he isn't allowed to give the information he obtains from the internal forums or ts to a third party, I doubt that you can sue him and win that case. If any alliance member is allowed/invited to use alliance forums and alliance TS, then a person in that alliance, who uses that information against the alliance, is also allowed. He didn't do it with a false identity. He's an alliance member and so he is allowed to access the information, what he does with it, is a different thing. But I'm not a finnish lawyer.
Xendie Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.02.24 14:07:00 - [102] Originally by: Nebuchadnezzar I Edited by: Nebuchadnezzar I on 24/02/2007 11:41:29 Edited by: Nebuchadnezzar I on 24/02/2007 11:40:53 Edit: Reading the last bit: Xendie: You are making alot of assumptions regarding which rules apply when, when on the internet and when said use gives one sovereign entity the right to prosecute a citizen of another sovereign entity. its not assumptions, in sweden as in most eropean countries the jusrisdiction is where the physical server is located. iirc the EU has a collaboration treaty regarding law enforcment actions regarding crimes across the borders. Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
TitusFlamininus Ars ex Discordia Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.24 14:23:00 - [103] In my corp we were entertaining the idea of whether it is legally possible to use subpoenas to prosecute forum spies. As long as the forum/TS/vent server is situated in the UK, the case is actually pretty clear cut: Forum/TS/vent spying would fall under illegal access to computer systems and would be classified as a crime. This is a rather broad legalese definition for hacking. Also add to the forums EULA that anything posted on the forums is property of the forum hoster and any external posting will cause a fine, and you can even get copyright law going in your favour.
Coquillette Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.24 14:36:00 - [104] Quote: illegal access to computer systems Define "illegal", please... Xendie : could you link the Finnish laws you're referring to stating that Finfleet is within their "legal" right to sue any "spy" getting access to their TS server ?
Hennry Fromer Gallente radiated space gerbils	Posted - 2007.02.24 14:37:00 - [105] Originally by: HankMurphy lol are you on LSD? RL lawsuits for ingame actions? Any lawyer worth paying would laugh you out of his office. Any lawyer that would take you seriously probably hasn't won a court case in years. I thought something was wrong when my lawyer wanted to be paid in isk, and said his law school was the university of calle.
Verone Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.02.24 14:44:00 - [106] Lollerskates. That is all. NEWEST MOVIE : VETO FOR HIRE
Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2007.02.24 14:47:00 - [107] Edited by: Shirei on 24/02/2007 14:43:23 Well, if their forum has a very strict agreement you have to accept when you sign up (e.g. something of the sort of 'by signing up here, you agree to not reproduce any of the information you can find here without prior consent of the respective owner'), it might technically have a legal basis. But even if they have that, not getting any kind of lawsuit about it dismissed due to the 'damage' caused being negligible is going to be rather hard, so LMAO.
Tom Gunn Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.02.24 14:52:00 - [108] Funniest threat ever ? LV sinking to even further depths in hell ? Or yet more examples of internet kiddies throwing their toys out of their pram because they lost ? Oh the melodrama!
redeyehunter Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.24 14:53:00 - [109] Originally by: evistin I am told FinFleet is pursing a case against GoonSwarm in the real world over certain in game actions. I am also its also creates super fast mod reaction time. Could someone who is aware of some of the details contact me, I would like to research the details up a bit. Not sure why this post is still open. It seems speculative "I am told FinFleet ", by whom or what would be nice to know. Also the subject of this post should at the very least be changed to info on FinFleet and not LV. This thread is basically a post to start a flame against the whole LV with no good cause. Even if it is true FinFleet are persuing this and I am not saying it is. How does that automatically translate to the whole of LV. I appeal to the Moderator to at least change the subject of this forum topic.
Ishtar1 Puppets on Steroids Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.24 15:04:00 - [110] lol abit OTT but you gota ask you self if this realy went through what would be the punishment "i sentence you to pay 20mill isk in damages and an apoulagy(sp) mail"

Topaz Skydiver Minmatar Narrative Freshfood	Posted - 2007.02.24 15:05:00 - [111] Originally by: redeyehunter Originally by: evistin I am told FinFleet is pursing a case against GoonSwarm in the real world over certain in game actions. I am also its also creates super fast mod reaction time. Could someone who is aware of some of the details contact me, I would like to research the details up a bit. Not sure why this post is still open. It seems speculative "I am told FinFleet ", by whom or what would be nice to know. Also the subject of this post should at the very least be changed to info on FinFleet and not LV. This thread is basically a post to start a flame against the whole LV with no good cause. Even if it is true FinFleet are persuing this and I am not saying it is. How does that automatically translate to the whole of LV. I appeal to the Moderator to at least change the subject of this forum topic. Google '+finfleet +legal' That also shows that if this story is true, then it happened, before the bandwaggon arrived, so it's not throwing someone with toys because of the current situation.
Boogey Trollias FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.24 15:10:00 - [112] I'll give one reply to this thread to clear some things and then let regular eve-o bull**** continue. 1) FinFleet or LV haven't or even couldn't press charges against anyone, them being only ingame entities. 2) It wasn't even discussed in LV or FinFleet, but 3) It was action solely taken by me now about 3 months ago. It has nothing to do with ingame things or ingame spying. There was a link given to Kugutsumen forums earlier. If you wish for further information, I'd go and click it.
Rover Vitesse Gallente FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.24 15:36:00 - [113] Ahhh, and while you're all getting your knickers in a knot about this... take a read of this interview that Remedial gave regarding forum hacking/spying etc. For those too lazy to click, i'll quote here... Quote: The Escapist: Is hacking another corporation's message boards really ethical, or just the cost of doing business? If not, would you consider hiring him (kugutsumen) now? Remedial: Hacking is unethical, absolutely. It's akin to breaking into somebody's office and rifling through their papers to find something that that person wouldn't willingly disclose. I would never hire somebody to break a real life law to give us an in-game advantage: That just screams out "reality check, please." Not only would our in-game reputation suffer massively and likely result in at least some bannings to the detriment of the corporation I created, there are potentially real life criminal and civil consequences for engaging in such conduct. Have to say, pretty much agree with Remedial on this, such a shame his lofty words and ideals don't seem to be shared by his members. Rovers Chronicles
Nostic	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:40:00 - [114] Edited by: Nostic on 24/02/2007 16:37:42 Originally by: Rover Vitesse Ahhh, and while you're all getting your knickers in a knot about this... take a read of this interview that Remedial gave regarding forum hacking/spying etc. For those too lazy to click, i'll quote here... Quote: The Escapist: Is hacking another corporation's message boards really ethical, or just the cost of doing business? If not, would you consider hiring him (kugutsumen) now? Remedial: Hacking is unethical, absolutely. It's akin to breaking into somebody's office and rifling through their papers to find something that that person wouldn't willingly disclose. I would never hire somebody to break a real life law to give us an in-game advantage: That just screams out "reality check, please." Not only would our in-game reputation suffer massively and likely result in at least some bannings to the detriment of the corporation I created, there are potentially real life criminal and civil consequences for engaging in such conduct. Have to say, pretty much agree with Remedial on this, such a shame his lofty words and ideals don't seem to be shared by his members. If you had any clue what this thread is about, you would know that the goonfleet member in question didn't hack anything. His alt was accepted in finfleet, and was given TS/forums access like every other member. It's the same thing your alliance does, it's the same thing BoB does, it's the same thing every major alliance in the game does.
Inmate 19225004 Absoluten Calfeutrail	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:45:00 - [115] Originally by: Boogey Trollias It was action solely taken by me now about 3 months ago. Aww, didja cry to mommy as well? f00kin baby.
Rover Vitesse Gallente FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.24 17:01:00 - [116] Edited by: Rover Vitesse on 24/02/2007 16:58:04 Originally by: Nostic If you had any clue what this thread is about, you would know that the goonfleet member in question didn't hack anything. His alt was accepted in finfleet, and was given TS/forums access like every other member. What part of the copying private conversations and messages and reproducing them on another forum don't you understand? It makes me laugh that the people in this thread who are saying "Wooah, that's a bit extreme, it's only a game" are the same people who are using their own time and money to try and gain such an advantage. If it is only a game, why are you going to such extremes instead of playing the game in the spirit intended. I am not Finnish, I don't understand the Finnish laws as applied to this case, but the duality of some of these posters makes me laugh. Give yourselves a reality check people. Originally by: nostic It's the same thing your alliance does, it's the same thing BoB does, it's the same thing every major alliance in the game does. Regardless of what other people in this game do, it doesn't make it right, nor does it make it legal. Thats the defence a five year old would use in Kindergarten..."Well, that other boy ate a dog turd, so it's ok...". Rovers Chronicles
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.24 17:04:00 - [117] Far aside from the general nonsense of the whole situation: He got one of his alt characters into your corp, right? Did you accept his application? Did he claim to be someone he wasn't? Did, or did not, CCP make alts impossible to identify with mains on purpose? So he applies, doesn't mention that he's also a Goon, and you accept him in. He happily spreads his newly accessed information to other friends in Goon Swarm. No law is broken there, Finnish or otherwise. It's just FinFleet's dumb-ass fault for accepting a new member during war time without making proper checks. -------- Originally by: Constantine Arcanum most problems can be solved with chloroform.
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.24 17:16:00 - [118] Originally by: Patch86 So he applies, doesn't mention that he's also a Goon, and you accept him in. He happily spreads his newly accessed information to other friends in Goon Swarm. No law is broken there, Finnish or otherwise. It's just FinFleet's dumb-ass fault for accepting a new member during war time without making proper checks. I even had GoonFleet in my corp history. I agree with every word you wrote. Personally, I find this funny and sad. Funny because this has potential to be incredible entertainment, and sad because anyone that presses charges over a game needs to log off for awhile.
Ironnight Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.02.24 17:18:00 - [119] Someone is warming up for a Darwin award Originally by: kieron Internally, this incident was discovered over the summer Originally by: t20 Posted on 02.07.07 The blueprints in question will be returned to CCP
Victoria DeBurr Gallente Renyn Supply Company	Posted - 2007.02.24 17:39:00 - [120] Originally by: Rover Vitesse Ahhh, and while you're all getting your knickers in a knot about this... take a read of this interview that Remedial gave regarding forum hacking/spying etc. For those too lazy to click, i'll quote here... Quote: The Escapist: Is hacking another corporation's message boards really ethical, or just the cost of doing business? If not, would you consider hiring him (kugutsumen) now? Remedial: Hacking is unethical, absolutely. It's akin to breaking into somebody's office and rifling through their papers to find something that that person wouldn't willingly disclose. I would never hire somebody to break a real life law to give us an in-game advantage: That just screams out "reality check, please." Not only would our in-game reputation suffer massively and likely result in at least some bannings to the detriment of the corporation I created, there are potentially real life criminal and civil consequences for engaging in such conduct. Have to say, pretty much agree with Remedial on this, such a shame his lofty words and ideals don't seem to be shared by his members. Hey Rover Vitesses, you know when you fire up this game called EVE, there is, when you are selecting the person you want to play a thing called "terminate" Well, you should click on that and dump all the magical toons that you've made. I can not believe that your parents raised you to be a huge crybaby, but I guess I was wrong. Finfleet set to -10 and KOS.



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