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lvl 4 Raven or Cerb?

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Guygeboe	Posted - 2007.02.25 11:42:00 - [1] Hi, I've come to the point i can do 2 things: fully t2 and rig my raven or buy a cerb, and do the same with that....(fully t2 and rig) all for the purpose of lvl 4 mission running. What do you guys think is the best choice and please say why :) thx!
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.02.25 11:46:00 - [2] Is this serious? Cerbs do next to no DPS at all. You can probably do L4s in a cerb pretty easily, but it'll take two to three times as long as with a raven.
Guygeboe	Posted - 2007.02.25 11:50:00 - [3] uh, sorry, i really was serious...am actually.. i figured with all the bonusses it gets for heavy missiles, pretty much on all the missile skills...you'd get some nice dps out of it? But a raven does more?
Kery Nysell Caldari Nysell Incorporated	Posted - 2007.02.25 12:08:00 - [4] Heavy Missiles, even with tons of bonuses, don't do enough damage to break some of the heavier tanks those mission-NPCs can have ... you'll kill droves of Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers and quite a few of the Battlecruisers, but you'll struggle with the Battleships ... it's not impossible, mind you, just not the best "tool for the job".
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.25 13:34:00 - [5] If you can afford a fully t2 fitted Cerb, you can certainly afford at least two fully t2 fitted Drakes. I've done some of the lower-end level 4s with a Drake fitted with tech 1 only equipment, some of it named, from the big pile of junk I (like everyone else) have lying around in my hangar. It was easy. It maybe took a little longer than with a Raven, but it was certainly possible. How? Passive (or strictly, semi-passive) tanking. 3 active hardeners, 3 shield extenders, 2 shield relays, 1 PDS and a BCU. Next time, I'll try swapping a BCU for the PDS just to kill faster. By the way, no rigs were involved. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Great site:National Nutrition (UK only)
Totalitarian Discourse	Posted - 2007.02.25 15:05:00 - [6] Edited by: Totalitarian Discourse on 25/02/2007 15:02:34 I just wanted to chip my handful of coins into this to support the Cerberus since so many people seem to have a dislike for it. The fact is, those who say it doesn't have the DPS to run Level IVs simply haven't tried. My Cerb is my primary mission runner and as long as I pack the right damage type I've not come across a BS tank I couldn't break. This is with tech one missiles and tech two launchers. Factions with a better capacity and ROF will give even better DPS. Tech two missiles will increase that vastly. I've only come across a damage problem in two cases. One was blowing up the Rodan Shipyard (which took the best part of fifteen minutes to finish off), and the named battleship on Vengeance. There's some sort of Caldari philosophy that you have to try and ***** walnuts with sledgehammers. A Raven is not required to run the harder missions. It's simply not cost effective. The truth is that unless you use precision cruise or some sort of mod you're not going to be able to kill the smaller ships with any ease. So, all the while you're throwing very expensive missiles and using up your cargo-hold of cap boosters on your setup that's so cap-heavy that you need to inject an eight-hundred every four milliseconds. It's overkill. Some would say the Cerberus is overkill. A Drake is now the ultimate bang-for-buck mission runner with a few modifications. The fact is unless you're running Duo Of Death and nothing else a Drake will be far more cost effective. Battleships are costly to buy and fit. Drakes are much cheaper, and still give similar insurance payoffs. Unless you get some sort of weird thrill from tanking the entire level AFK, a Raven's not going to be any faster at killing, never mind looting or getting the hell out of dodge when you realize you've bitten off more than you can chew.
Big Al Ki Shoda	Posted - 2007.02.25 17:15:00 - [7] A raven does a lot more dps than a cerb max skills vs max skills. Both can be setup to tank every mission without an issue, although you might want some faction fittings on the raven just to make it a big easier. Raven is the clearcut winner, the only reason not to use it is if you hate ravens (like me). Last account expires on March 8. Peace.
Jaeuhl	Posted - 2007.02.25 17:22:00 - [8] T2 fitted BS's regardless if you compare a cerberus/raven or ishtar/domi etc will always out perform the smaller ship for mission running. The cerberus runs lvl 4's fine with the standard faction mod setup, the raven doesn't need the faction mods to run the lvl 4's but when you do you can do the ones that the cerberus cannot or would struggle with. It boils down to time spent mission running/looting and now salvaging. The raven in most cases just does it faster. As for the best choice, t2/rigged/raven is the better choice for running missions. Besides, you have a drone bay and a lot more cargo space should you fit a tractor as well. ...but if you can afford a cerberus, go for it too. Variety keeps the game interesting.
Athanasios Anastasiou Elite Storm Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.25 17:38:00 - [9] Whoever says the Cerb does too little dmg hasn't flown it. My Cerb actually chews through missions with less battleships faster then my raven. The main reason to fly a cerb is due to its tank. With dual gistii boosters, you can pretty much do the hardest of missions (pirate slaughter, WC, etc) while reading the forums. Perma boost ftw .
Darkside101 Caldari Togakure Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.25 17:58:00 - [10] I can do lvl 4's quicker in my cerb than a raven. You can break any tank on the npcs.. yes it can take alittle longer to kill the biggest rats but its alot quicker at killing anything else. Also its really easy to tank with the cerb. DS101
Ciir	Posted - 2007.02.25 18:09:00 - [11] May I suggest thinking about a Nighthawk? I have used Cerb, Nighthawk and Raven for L4 Missions and in my opinion the Nighthawk is pure fun.
Idara Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.25 18:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Kery Nysell Heavy Missiles, even with tons of bonuses, don't do enough damage to break some of the heavier tanks those mission-NPCs can have ... you'll kill droves of Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers and quite a few of the Battlecruisers, but you'll struggle with the Battleships ... it's not impossible, mind you, just not the best "tool for the job". Total rubbish. My Cerb performed very well and did any L4 it got thrown at. It's not impossible at all, the only rat that could tank was the 2.5m in Vengeance, that's it. Everything else drops easy peasy. ---
twentyafter Minmatar Sicarri Covenant Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:09:00 - [13] IMO the Nighthawk is the best ship for lvl 4 missions, yes it might take a little longer to kill some of the higer end battleships. It can kill the 2.5 mil bs at the end of the vengance mission without a problem. Most of the missions I never have to run my shield booster. IMO the nighthawk can out tank just about any ship in the game if fitted properly. The Nighthawk is all I have used for missions since it was introduced to the game.
Eternal Light Caldari Global Solutions	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:17:00 - [14] I do Lvl4 missions easier with my cerb, its just fun to fly and i play for fun. u will destroy fregates/destroyer/cruiser/BC very fast, some BS very fast and other much long. I dont accept all mission (world collyte and pirate slaughter) others its just easy. (sry for my english)
Basileus	Posted - 2007.02.25 21:21:00 - [15] Cerb is fine for LVL 4. Fit an AB and a good sensor booster in the mid slots and fly to ~120 km from where you pelt the rats with missiles. DPS is ok for most missions. The DPS of a well fitted Raven will be higher I suppose, but you spend more cash for the setup. I suppose I would have to say Raven, T2 fitted or better, with T2 drones. But it is a close call as far as I am concerned.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.25 21:39:00 - [16] Ravens are awesome for lvl 4s,but the only reason a cerb would be faster is one of those missions where you have to approach a gate for 120km __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr.
Ralara Caldari The Bewlay Bros. Inc	Posted - 2007.02.25 23:57:00 - [17] Originally by: Totalitarian Discourse There's some sort of Caldari philosophy that you have to try and ***** walnuts with sledgehammers. A Raven is not required to run the harder missions. It's simply not cost effective. The truth is that unless you use precision cruise or some sort of mod you're not going to be able to kill the smaller ships with any ease. So, all the while you're throwing very expensive missiles and using up your cargo-hold of cap boosters on your setup that's so cap-heavy that you need to inject an eight-hundred every four milliseconds. I don't know how you run your tanks when in a raven but I've never used a cap booster for anything. Tech 1 siege missile launchers work fine. You have enough dronebay (75mm) for 5x med and 5x small drones although TBH I dont use smalls a lot. Easy as pie.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.02.26 02:18:00 - [18] Originally by: Ciir May I suggest thinking about a Nighthawk? I have used Cerb, Nighthawk and Raven for L4 Missions and in my opinion the Nighthawk is pure fun. Definitely. I have used a Cerb, Nighthawk, Raven, and Drake for tons of missions... the Nighthawk is my favorite by far. It has a tank far and away better than any of the other ships. It does more dps than any of the others except the Raven (but it's actually fairly close to the Raven). I have to say the Cerb is the worst of the 4. I really really thought it sucked after having used a Raven... and then once the Drake came out I really hated the Cerb. I really can't understand why anyone thinks the Cerb is worth using in missions... I could throw away a mid slot on a Drake and put an AB on it and still out-tank the Cerb and outdamage it. So here are some comparisons imo: For multi-billion isk setups: Raven > Nighthawk > Drake > Cerb For full T2/300-400 million ISK setups: Nighthawk > Raven > Drake > Cerb For people without hundreds of millions of ISK: Nighthawk > Drake > Raven > Cerb. The Nighthawk tanks amazingly well... passively. With fairly cheap items. The Drake is the same as the Nighthawk in its tank except slightly worse. The Raven tank amazingly well... with extremely expensive faction/officer mods, it tanks pretty bad with T1 items and even with T2 it's average at best. The Cerb is a slightly weaker Drake/Nighthawk, but does better with active tanking and really yearns to have faction gear. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.02.26 03:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Ciir May I suggest thinking about a Nighthawk? I have used Cerb, Nighthawk and Raven for L4 Missions and in my opinion the Nighthawk is pure fun. Seconded. While I'd say use the Raven since it massively out DPS the cerb, get a Nighthawk if possible. It's so easy to make an unbreakable passive tank for missions that it's almost not funny. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Axitikus Minmatar Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.02.26 04:17:00 - [20] Originally by: Ralara Tech 1 siege missile launchers work fine. You have enough dronebay (75mm) for 5x med and 5x small drones although TBH I dont use smalls a lot. Easy as pie. Cruise missiles > Torps for lvl 4's as there is more NPC hp in the form of cruisers and BC's than there is in BS's --------------------------- An Ishkur is EVE-related imo
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2007.02.26 04:23:00 - [21] I'd use a cerb cuz its just plain easier. 5x hml II 2x gistii smalls 1x em hard 1x invul 1x boost amp 2 bcu II 1 dcu II 1x pdu II u cud do any mission imo w/i changeing out hardeners. --- Eris Discordia is miiiiiine uhhh, you sure? -Eris ofc i am pets voodoo eris doll
J Valkor	Posted - 2007.02.26 04:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Axitikus Originally by: Ralara Tech 1 siege missile launchers work fine. You have enough dronebay (75mm) for 5x med and 5x small drones although TBH I dont use smalls a lot. Easy as pie. Cruise missiles > Torps for lvl 4's as there is more NPC hp in the form of cruisers and BC's than there is in BS's cough Painters cough
Jaeuhl	Posted - 2007.02.26 05:41:00 - [23] As great as the NH is for what it does and mission running, training leadership skills and BC 5 is a major deterrent. I'd rather continue to advance in my missile/shield skills for those 2-3 months of straight training. I have more fun in the cerb than the raven, my friend fly NH's so I don't need to. Will I ever get into a NH? Sure, after I've milked HAC skills to the limit but then I might just pick the next faction HAC. The ishtar looks pretty good. Borrow a friend's ship and see what you like.
kill0rbunny Chimera Intelligence Agency	Posted - 2007.02.26 10:07:00 - [24] Drake is better than the cerb. While training for the nighthawk i prefer using my drake anytime over the cerb. It is great for doing missions while spamming the forums or watching a movie while just pressing F1,F2,F3 sometimes. It is a bit slow indeed but if you're fitted with a full rack of tech II launchers and and a passive tank you're not really that slow next to a standard cruise raven. - I got a portrait now, wheeeee! \o/
Impolite Andevil	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:13:00 - [25] I use the cerb, raven, and drake for lev 4s. The cerb will run them just fine, but I wouldn't suggest it over the raven. My cerb is faction-fitted to a worth of about 600 mil, and the dps is great on everything but battleships. Once you get to them, though, they take 2x the time of the raven. The drake does have a bit better damage than the cerb, but I found it more annoying to use. It is MUCH slower. If you go that slow, just get a raven... The raven is the fastest solo ship for lev 4's, but to really do them right you need rigs and a faction booster. Instant 1 bil+ raven. I am currently training for the nighthawk. It appears that it will be by far the best of the options. It will probably also be the best option to take into low-sec for lev 5s shortly, since it can be done with a nice pasive uni-tank and no faction gear. Still spendy, probably 300 mil or so, but not nearly the risk of a faction ship.
Elain Reverse Caldari Shokei	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:34:00 - [26] Originally by: Athanasios Anastasiou Edited by: Athanasios Anastasiou on 25/02/2007 18:44:56 Whoever says the Cerb does too little dmg hasn't flown it. My Cerb actually chews through missions with less battleships faster then my raven. The main reason to fly a cerb is due to its tank. With dual gistii boosters, you can pretty much do the hardest of missions (pirate slaughter, WC, etc) while reading the forums. To do that on a raven, you have to dish out much more money. The other thing is that the cerb is really good for those long distance missions. Most setups allow you to spare a slot for an ab, which will push your cerb to over 400m/s, which is nice for a lvl4 runner and a joy to fly. Pirate slaughter is one from hardest L4s ? It was my 1st L4 mission with drake (did 4 so far cause damn pirates destroyed my ship) and i have not problem to kill all those ship without warpout (full T2 except launchers and 3 rigs, pasive tank and only 3.5m SP). Firstly was pretty scared with all those 8 BS and 40 cruisers+frigs sent all those armagedon on my shield, but it got better wih half ships down in 1st 2 minutes. So my question is whitch missions are harder then Pirate Slaughter (I wouldnt touch WC solo for while though) ?
Torian Lorik Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:56:00 - [27] Edited by: Torian Lorik on 26/02/2007 20:53:18 Originally by: Shadarle So here are some comparisons imo: For multi-billion isk setups: CNR > Raven > Nighthawk > Drake > Cerb Fixed (or added, whichever you prefer).
Cent 02	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:42:00 - [28] Let me start by saying i am primarily gallente but i found it hard to do lvl4 missions in a Dommi or Mega, so i trained for a Raven. I found i could do all lvl 4 missions comfortably in the Raven, as for the small ships i.e. frigs if they are at distance they are easy to kill with cruise, T1, and when they get close i carry 5 med drones and 5 small drones i have all types and i carry the ones best suited for the missions, i have 4 torp lauchers and 2 cruise launchers. I have after burner and if its a tricky mission i simply get out of the NPCs dam range and then i agress. Simple!!! speaking as a Gallente this ship is pure Cheese! lol, i also have 3 cap rigs to keep hardners and shield Boosters going if i need em. So fro me the Raven gets my voteand if i can do it easily with feable missle skills and lvl 3 caldari BS skill it should be easy for caldari pilots! why you would choose to even consider any other caldari ship is a mystery to me.
Cent 02	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:56:00 - [29] Guys, as a gallente who trained to fly a Raven to do lvl 4 missions there is only 1 choice and i am surprised there is any debate, its the Raven by far, why would you want to use a ship that cost 2 X More that has less fire power! i have done evey lvl 4 mission comfortably in the Raven and let me remind pple it has the added bonus of being able to carry those 5 med drones and 5 light ones, which come in handy when you get them little nasty frigs catching up to you! i fly mine with 4 torp launchers and 2 cruise, this ship is a cheese boat! and i can do these missions with lvl 3 skills! with lvl 5 gallente i find them a lot harder! that says it all! There is no way given the same missile skills you can take BS quicker in a Cerebus than in a Raven, and the quicker you do the missions the more ISK you make and gives you more time to salvage and collect loot which you can do in a Raven, tractor + Salvager, (cant get both on a Cerebus)so as Mr Spock would its Logical Jim fly the Raven!

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