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James 315
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.02.25 20:07:00 -
[1]
Motherships can field three times as many fighters as a carrier, but for the cost of a mothership, you could buy fifteen or more carriers. To say nothing of the extra build and BPO/POS costs associated with a mothership.
Motherships are immune to warp scramblers, but aren't carriers and motherships best used in POS's with fighters assigned to fast-locking gang members? I suppose you could fit smartbombs to your mothership and plop it down in front of an enemy gang, hoping to get a few extra kills, but you'd never be able to get enough kills that way to justify the risk of your mothership being destroyed.
Is there something else about motherships that makes them more useful than carriers to justify the enormous cost involved? |
DubanFP
Caldari
Four Rings
Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.25 20:12:00 -
[2]
Edited by: DubanFP on 25/02/2007 20:09:25
from my experience capitol pilots are harder to get then the capitol ships themselves. 3x the firepower but only 1 pilot. That and it's a show of strength, motherships are definately very good from a morale standpoint.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2007.02.25 20:13:00 -
[3]
First of, you say it yourself, theyre pretty much impossible to kill.
There has been a single legit mothership kill, offically known, and even that one is due to SERIOUS bad luck.
And you cant compare the prices like that. If you do, I doubt anything will beat a t1 frigate. For the cost of a single carrier you can use about 21k frigates. I'd like to see the ship who can survive 21k frigates in rage. And dont even get me started on rookieships, you can toss an infinite amount of newbieships at any single ship - he will go down.
Besides, for solopirating, ratting, mining, nothing beats an MS.
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Hakera
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.25 20:15:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Hakera on 25/02/2007 20:12:49
if you judge everything by a rudimentry cost/benefit, then there is little point any of us ever flying anything but frigates :)
immunity to EW is a very powerful ability that makes them reasonably immune aside from facing very specific threats. It means you can use the carrier on the frontlines rather than the support role the traditional carriers play. Along with the clone bay/corp hanger & ship maintainance bay is a great tactical and logistical tool for battlefield deployments.
one would argue its more than 'value for money' to get one.
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Sorela
Gallente
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.25 20:15:00 -
[5]
Jump clone bay.
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Waagaa Ktlehr
Amarr
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.25 20:21:00 -
[6]
The biggest threat to regular carriers is dampeners.
Immunity to EW means that your opposition loses a BS every 10 seconds as long as you can keep it locked down.
Fact that they cannot be warpscrambled makes it easier to retreat when things get a little too hot.
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One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them.
One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them. |
Chronus26
Gallente
Vale Heavy Industries
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.25 20:28:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: James 315
Motherships are immune to warp scramblers, but aren't carriers and motherships best used in POS's with fighters assigned to fast-locking gang members?
Wrong.
Carriers are most commonly used this way, but that does not mean that it is by any means the best use of them. There is a difference.
The 'best' place for a carrier to be during battle is right there with your gang. They are designed to fit Capital transfer mods, make good use of them and you'll be able to keep your gangmates alive when they would have died otherwise. Not to mention Fighters do a heck of a lot more damage when not remotley assigned. It just takes a little guts to put yourself at risk, but the benefits of doing so can be huge.
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Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2007.02.25 20:49:00 -
[8]
But as previously brought up, carriers are the primary target of EW and are immediately crippled in every way, you'd have to have your gangmates ontop of the carrier for it to target them for shield transfer/armor rep with all that sensor damping.
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Xtro 2
Caldari
Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.02.25 20:52:00 -
[9]
Standard carriers are prety useless capital ships, their rubbish at their "intended" role, and their very easy to kill off, all i ever read about motherships is the fact that they make good solo ownmobiles, due to immunity, these have a better attempt at their intended roles.
TBH Carriers and motherships arent very good, its sad they make better haulers than combat vessels.
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman.
Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder. |
Chronus26
Gallente
Vale Heavy Industries
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.25 21:01:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Chronus26 on 25/02/2007 21:03:23
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame
But as previously brought up, carriers are the primary target of EW and are immediately crippled in every way, you'd have to have your gangmates ontop of the carrier for it to target them for shield transfer/armor rep with all that sensor damping.
Little known fact: Ewar ships can be primaried and killed.
Originally by: Xtro 2
Standard carriers are prety useless capital ships, their rubbish at their "intended" role, and their very easy to kill off, all i ever read about motherships is the fact that they make good solo ownmobiles, due to immunity, these have a better attempt at their intended roles.
TBH Carriers and motherships arent very good, its sad they make better haulers than combat vessels.
Their intended role isnt to be running about solo killing everything, but to be used to complement medium to larger sized gangs. The carrier helps keep the gang alive and provides a good damage output, while the gang helps to cover the carriers weaker areas. Those who recognize this use Carriers in their gangs to great effect, the rest take your view and do not use them to anything close to their full potential.
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Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2007.02.25 21:06:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Chronus26
Not to mention Fighters do a heck of a lot more damage when not remotley assigned.
In all the tests i have done (as a carrier pilot), there is no difference in fighter damage if the carrier pilot tells it to attack or if the carrier pilot assigns it to someone else. The only diference is that a pilot with a faster lock can get the drones on target faster than the MS/Carrier can.
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Royaldo
Old Farts
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Posted - 2007.02.25 21:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Xtro 2
Standard carriers are prety useless capital ships, their rubbish at their "intended" role, and their very easy to kill off, all i ever read about motherships is the fact that they make good solo ownmobiles, due to immunity, these have a better attempt at their intended roles.
TBH Carriers and motherships arent very good, its sad they make better haulers than combat vessels.
talking out of your ass there, motherships are insanely good ships.
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Chronus26
Gallente
Vale Heavy Industries
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.25 21:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Selak Zorander
Originally by: Chronus26
Not to mention Fighters do a heck of a lot more damage when not remotley assigned.
In all the tests i have done (as a carrier pilot), there is no difference in fighter damage if the carrier pilot tells it to attack or if the carrier pilot assigns it to someone else. The only diference is that a pilot with a faster lock can get the drones on target faster than the MS/Carrier can.
Strikes me as odd because its generally accepted that Assigned fighters do not recieve a damage bonus from the Fighters skill of the Carrier pilot. This holds up to my (somwhat casual) observations of my own fighters.
But which is true? The majority or you? 
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Xthril Ranger
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.25 21:24:00 -
[14]
Originally by: James 315
..... but for the cost of a mothership, you could buy fifteen or more carriers. .....
it is not about cost/ship , but killing power/pilot.
you'll never jump alone
Your signature is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg |
Sku1ly
STK Scientific
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.25 21:34:00 -
[15]
I agree, motherships are a waste of time.
Stop building them immediately.
Officer smartbombs are even more useless.
STK-S |
Helen
STK Scientific
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.25 21:38:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Helen on 25/02/2007 21:35:00
Motherships are insanely powerful before losing mine to MC I tanked FATAL/TOXIN fleets in front of a hostile POS. People keep moaning about not being able to scramble but its just because they aren't willing to adapt.
If I could buy one like a regular ship I'd buy a new one in a heartbeat, no second thoughts.
Jump clone bay, remote transfers/reps the ability to cover a Dread fleet when putting POS into reinforced. Its ability to bring in dozens of ships and fit them out.
Before even using a Mothership I put my carrier into the frontline, if people aren't able/unwilling to use it for pvp then it sucks to be them.
Argh scratch all the that yeah Motherships are crap don't bother mate just fly frigs.
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.02.25 21:44:00 -
[17]
My Hel is just a big paperweight, I use it to keep the Ragnarok bpo from flying off my desk.
_________________________
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
Got Corp? |
6Bagheera9
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.25 22:13:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Xtro 2
Standard carriers are prety useless capital ships, their rubbish at their "intended" role, and their very easy to kill off, all i ever read about motherships is the fact that they make good solo ownmobiles, due to immunity, these have a better attempt at their intended roles.
TBH Carriers and motherships arent very good, its sad they make better haulers than combat vessels.
Dude, are we playing the same game. Carriers are THE most useful capital ship out there. Even if they just sit at a pos and assign fighters and run gang mods, the boost to a fleet is incredible.
But back to motherships, basically they are carriers on steroids that are totally immune to EWar. I have been on the receiving end of The Establisment's Nyx and I can testify that they are extremely powerful. Carriers need to be flown carefully on the front lines because of their weaker tank and vunerability to EWar. MSs have no such limitations and can thus use their fighters and remote captial repp/xfer to full effect. Jump Clone Bays also open up the possibility of jumping a large raiding party of frigs, with their pilots, deep into hostile territory and bypassing gate camps that would normally keep them out.
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Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2007.02.26 00:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Chronus26
Originally by: Selak Zorander
Originally by: Chronus26
Not to mention Fighters do a heck of a lot more damage when not remotley assigned.
In all the tests i have done (as a carrier pilot), there is no difference in fighter damage if the carrier pilot tells it to attack or if the carrier pilot assigns it to someone else. The only diference is that a pilot with a faster lock can get the drones on target faster than the MS/Carrier can.
Strikes me as odd because its generally accepted that Assigned fighters do not recieve a damage bonus from the Fighters skill of the Carrier pilot. This holds up to my (somwhat casual) observations of my own fighters.
But which is true? The majority or you?
Well i have combat logs in some testing on TQ where a carrier pilot had his fighters wreck for 1580 on my shields (Thanatos with lvl 5 carrier lvl 4 fighter) and then we did the same with his alt having the fighter assigned to him and again it wrecked for 1580.
The big problem with fighters is that they move too fast for their tracking rates so they have a very hard time hitting anything. At the time i was also in a carrier and not moving (should have been nice easy target for the fighters) and it took over half an hour to get a wrecking hit while most hits were barely scratch or lightly hits from something less than full damage.
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Rigsta
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.26 00:45:00 -
[20]
Without Motherships there'd be no babyships. And then what would we fly? :(
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
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6Bagheera9
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.26 01:29:00 -
[21]
What ship were the fighters attacking Salek? Frigates are almost impossible for fighters to hit and fast cruiser also tend to evade most of the fire.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.02.26 02:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: NoNah
And dont even get me started on rookieships, you can toss an infinite amount of newbieships at any single ship - he will go down.
I disagree. Stagger half a dozen large smartbombs and no number of rookieships will kill you.
Motherships, unlike carriers, also allow rapid deployment, which can be useful in some cases. Has to be nice to be able to have a small gang of T2 frigs suddenly appear, possibly use your fighters for you, and allow you to focus on other tasks.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Benglada
Infinitus Odium
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.26 05:39:00 -
[23]
you dont always have 20 some odd skilled carrier pilots on hand you can trust.... and also if you just want one, you are in fact not 20 people :)
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Originally by: Arkanor
0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected])
Sig By Ortos |
Marine Raider
Minmatar
Fatalix Inc.
Schism.
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Posted - 2007.02.26 05:49:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Marine Raider on 26/02/2007 05:51:27
Plus, looking at it with a carebear point-of-view, besides the titan, what other ship allows you to jump an entire mining fleet into a remote system and set up shop without the worry of being found out? How many hulks/covetors/macks/retrievers...etc. could one fit in that thing? It would be a carebears dream.
EDIT: By the way, the answer to the question was 10 fully outfitted *unpackaged* hulks and a full POS...probably making some carebear out there giddy with that prospect.
Oh, and if that thing was lost...you lose 7 billion in hulks alone before the cost of the mothership...such a hard decision 
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Raiders Company - WE SET THE PACE
USMC
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Ulrai
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Posted - 2007.02.26 11:51:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Helen
Edited by: Helen on 25/02/2007 21:35:00
Motherships are insanely powerful before losing mine to MC
MC?
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Miranda Ceres
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Posted - 2007.02.26 12:11:00 -
[26]
Mercenary Coalition, the best mercenary force in the game. Their capital fleet is yours to hire for the right price. :p
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.26 12:33:00 -
[27]
one thing.. its CAPITAL ship.. not CAPITOL.. capitol is a building!!!!
Its capital ships. as in LARGE...
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
FromBeyond TheGrave
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.26 13:37:00 -
[28]
To meet up with a father ship and spew out wittle frigates to grow into battle ships one day 
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Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2007.02.26 15:24:00 -
[29]
Originally by: 6Bagheera9
What ship were the fighters attacking Salek? Frigates are almost impossible for fighters to hit and fast cruiser also tend to evade most of the fire.
they were attacking my nidhoggur. It was a damage test, the Thanatos pilot ordered one Templar to attack my nidhoggur (while he also sat there and used a capital shield xfer array to keep the hits on the shields). I was stationary the entire time. after getting a wrecking shot (took or 30 minutes to get one), he assigned the fighter to his alt and then ordered it to attack through his alt until again getting a wrecking shot. It wrecked for the same amount as the first wecking shot though it managed to get a wecking shot after about 5 to 10 minutes i think it was. During those tests (done on TQ) we learned a few things about fighters.
Namely the only drone skill that seems to affect them is the fighter skill. Drone interfacing does not give them any extra damage. I even found the fomula for determining what a wrecking shot should be mathmatecally before hand and the 1580 was a dead match for the skills he had (fighter 4 and gallante carier 5) versus the untanked shields of my carrier.
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Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
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Posted - 2007.02.26 16:04:00 -
[30]
Originally by: NoNah
First of, you say it yourself, theyre pretty much impossible to kill.
There has been a single legit mothership kill, offically known, and even that one is due to SERIOUS bad luck.
And you cant compare the prices like that. If you do, I doubt anything will beat a t1 frigate. For the cost of a single carrier you can use about 21k frigates. I'd like to see the ship who can survive 21k frigates in rage. And dont even get me started on rookieships, you can toss an infinite amount of newbieships at any single ship - he will go down.
Besides, for solopirating, ratting, mining, nothing beats an MS.
A titan could
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